Image manipulation - Why Macromedia?!

Okay... This is related to my original post about image manipulation, but is NOT asking about a specific program. My question is that since SO MANY people look for image manipulation in their programming language, why don't more developers add this feature into their language. Even PHP doesn't have this stuff natively (that I know of) but does allow you to add it in via extra libraries. So consider this an open letter to Macromedia/Adobe. Why isn't something which is so desired by so many people added into your language? I could go and pay $75 for an excellent codebase (Alagad's Image Component) but doesn't it make sense to include this into the language itself? I just don't understand it. Can anyone enlighten me on this? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//--------->

It is available in your own language.  ColdFusion is really java, and there has been code posted in java to do image manipulation.  Anything that could be done in java could be done in ColdFusion.  If you need something that performs better, then you go pay for it.  ColdFusion can't possibly include everything. Russ Okay... This is related to my original post about image manipulation, but is NOT asking about a specific program. My question is that since SO MANY people look for image manipulation in their programming language, why don't more developers add this feature into their language. Even PHP doesn't have this stuff natively (that I know of) but does allow you to add it in via extra libraries. So consider this an open letter to Macromedia/Adobe. Why isn't something which is so desired by so many people added into your language? I could go and pay $75 for an excellent codebase (Alagad's Image Component) but doesn't it make sense to include this into the language itself? I just don't understand it. Can anyone enlighten me on this? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//--------->

I'm not asking CF to provide everything. But this is something that almost every needs at one point or another. How many people us cfchart compared to the number of people that would want to manipulate images? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> It is available in your own language.  ColdFusion is really java, and there has been code posted in java to do image manipulation.  Anything that could be done in java could be done in ColdFusion.  If you need something that performs better, then you go pay for it.  ColdFusion can't possibly include everything. Russ Okay... This is related to my original post about image manipulation, but is NOT asking about a specific program. My question is that since SO MANY people look for image manipulation in their programming language, why don't more developers add this feature into their language. Even PHP doesn't have this stuff natively (that I know of) but does allow you to add it in via extra libraries. So consider this an open letter to Macromedia/Adobe. Why isn't something which is so desired by so many people added into your language? I could go and pay $75 for an excellent codebase (Alagad's Image Component) but doesn't it make sense to include this into the language itself? I just don't understand it. Can anyone enlighten me on this? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//--------->

I agree, that's a fair question.  CF's whole purpose is "RAD" and inclusion of things that make development far easier.  CFGRID is one of those things, CFGRAPH is one, there could easily be CFIMAGE.  All MM/Adobe needs to do is buy something like the ImageCR product and integrate it.  I imagine it would be a great reason in favor up upgrading to the next version. Matthew Small I'm not asking CF to provide everything. But this is something that almost every needs at one point or another. How many people us cfchart compared to the number of people that would want to manipulate images? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> It is available in your own language.  ColdFusion is really java, and there has been code posted in java to do image manipulation.  Anything that could be done in java could be done in ColdFusion.  If you need something that performs better, then you go pay for it.  ColdFusion can't possibly include everything. Russ Okay... This is related to my original post about image manipulation, but is NOT asking about a specific program. My question is that since SO MANY people look for image manipulation in their programming language, why don't more developers add this feature into their language. Even PHP doesn't have this stuff natively (that I know of) but does allow you to add it in via extra libraries. So consider this an open letter to Macromedia/Adobe. Why isn't something which is so desired by so many people added into your language? I could go and pay $75 for an excellent codebase (Alagad's Image Component) but doesn't it make sense to include this into the language itself? I just don't understand it. Can anyone enlighten me on this? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//--------->

BlueDragon Server includes a CFIMAGE tag which does basic image manipulation. -JM Matthew Small wrote:

Here here! <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> I agree, that's a fair question.  CF's whole purpose is "RAD" and inclusion of things that make development far easier.  CFGRID is one of those things, CFGRAPH is one, there could easily be CFIMAGE.  All MM/Adobe needs to do is buy something like the ImageCR product and integrate it.  I imagine it would be a great reason in favor up upgrading to the next version. Matthew Small I'm not asking CF to provide everything. But this is something that almost every needs at one point or another. How many people us cfchart compared to the number of people that would want to manipulate images? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> It is available in your own language.  ColdFusion is really java, and there has been code posted in java to do image manipulation.  Anything that could be done in java could be done in ColdFusion.  If you need something that performs better, then you go pay for it.  ColdFusion can't possibly include everything. Russ Okay... This is related to my original post about image manipulation, but is NOT asking about a specific program. My question is that since SO MANY people look for image manipulation in their programming language, why don't more developers add this feature into their language. Even PHP doesn't have this stuff natively (that I know of) but does allow you to add it in via extra libraries. So consider this an open letter to Macromedia/Adobe. Why isn't something which is so desired by so many people added into your language? I could go and pay $75 for an excellent codebase (Alagad's Image Component) but doesn't it make sense to include this into the language itself? I just don't understand it. Can anyone enlighten me on this? <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//--------->

On 10/7/05, Andy Matthews <andy@icglink.com> wrote: > I'm not asking CF to provide everything. But this is something that almost > every needs at one point or another. How many people us cfchart compared to > the number of people that would want to manipulate images? > http://www.macromedia.com/go/wish Regards, Dave.

Done. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> On 10/7/05, Andy Matthews <andy@icglink.com> wrote: > I'm not asking CF to provide everything. But this is something that almost > every needs at one point or another. How many people us cfchart compared to > the number of people that would want to manipulate images? > http://www.macromedia.com/go/wish Regards, Dave.

It cant include everything but it does pretty much everything now! Also considering that Macromedia will become part of Adobe why not a real good set of image manipulation tags (Photoshop image scaling alogarithm anyone?) I agree with Andy here, ok.. we cant do the most "esoteric" things but we can do uploads natively, move files, list directories, ftp things, create reports and what not, why not a few image manip tags? MD On 07/10/05, Russ <cflists@ruslansivak.com> wrote:

Agreed... Rick tions & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java, and it's not that difficult to implement.  There are several cfcs out there - some are free - that do image manipulation. I do admit that it'd be nice to see them implement CFIMAGE like Bluedragon has done, but it doesn't bother me that much because there are plenty of cheap and/or free alternatives that aren't difficult to implement. Alternatively, generating PDFs and doing reporting from within CF was always possible before, but only by using costly products or methods that were extremely difficult to implement (I had integrated JasperReports with CFMX 6.1.  JasperReports is the open source java reporting solution that the CFMX7 solution is built on) Rick Andy Matthews wrote:

>>I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java Java is not a panacea for CF users nor an excuse for any lack of some tool in CF. Many CF developers do not wish to learn and use Java. Developers who really want to use Java would go JSP instead. It would be like a restaurant telling you "If you want some French fries with your steak, go get them for the Macdo next door" ;-) -- _______________________________________ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: piegeacon@internetique.com) Thanks.

Precisely my thoughts Claude. I don't know Java. I don't care to learn Java (at this point). I just want a toolset in my favorite language, coldfusion. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> >>I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java Java is not a panacea for CF users nor an excuse for any lack of some tool in CF. Many CF developers do not wish to learn and use Java. Developers who really want to use Java would go JSP instead. It would be like a restaurant telling you "If you want some French fries with your steak, go get them for the Macdo next door" ;-) -- _______________________________________ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: piegeacon@internetique.com) Thanks.

The original message mentioned that image manipulation doesn't come with php, but as a free community provided plugin.  There has been code posted many times on this list that does image manipulation.  It is already or can easily be converted to a cfc.  Now, unless someone has a problem with the quality that it produces, or the features that it has,  I don't see what everyone is whining about?  You have been given the code... stick it in a cfc, and use it... no need to learn java, other people have done it for you. Precisely my thoughts Claude. I don't know Java. I don't care to learn Java (at this point). I just want a toolset in my favorite language, coldfusion. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> >>I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java Java is not a panacea for CF users nor an excuse for any lack of some tool in CF. Many CF developers do not wish to learn and use Java. Developers who really want to use Java would go JSP instead. It would be like a restaurant telling you "If you want some French fries with your steak, go get them for the Macdo next door" ;-) -- _______________________________________ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: piegeacon@internetique.com) Thanks.

I've done that Russ...I'm using Massimo's tmt_img.cfc. It works well. I simply stated that I wished MM would include this functionality in Coldfusion itself. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> The original message mentioned that image manipulation doesn't come with php, but as a free community provided plugin.  There has been code posted many times on this list that does image manipulation.  It is already or can easily be converted to a cfc.  Now, unless someone has a problem with the quality that it produces, or the features that it has,  I don't see what everyone is whining about?  You have been given the code... stick it in a cfc, and use it... no need to learn java, other people have done it for you. Precisely my thoughts Claude. I don't know Java. I don't care to learn Java (at this point). I just want a toolset in my favorite language, coldfusion. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> >>I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java Java is not a panacea for CF users nor an excuse for any lack of some tool in CF. Many CF developers do not wish to learn and use Java. Developers who really want to use Java would go JSP instead. It would be like a restaurant telling you "If you want some French fries with your steak, go get them for the Macdo next door" ;-) -- _______________________________________ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: piegeacon@internetique.com) Thanks.

> I've done that Russ...I'm using Massimo's tmt_img.cfc. It works well. I > simply stated that I wished MM would include this functionality in > Coldfusion itself. Even if I already solved the problem on my own. I too wish MM would include image manipulation functionality on a future release. It just makes a lot of sense in my opinion. ---------------------------- Massimo Foti Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

There are many things that we'd like to see in CF...but with a little effort you can write your own. I mean hey....wouldn't it be nice if CF came with payment gateway tags?? ;-) This is the power of CF....if it don't come built in...you can build it yourself with relative ease. I might add I wrote both my posted image methods without knowing ANY Java....just found some Java code...read it...tried my best to understand it (not too hard to read any langauge and get the general idea of what it does)....converted it to CF code...not hard at all. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: bryan@electricedgesystems.com web: www.electricedgesystems.com

Andy Matthews wrote: > Precisely my thoughts Claude. I don't know Java. I don't care to learn Java > (at this point). I just want a toolset in my favorite language, coldfusion. but you don't have to know java.  There are numerous CFC implementations written by people who DO know java. I use a CFC written by Jim Dew. Here's how I resize images: <cfscript>   imagePath = "C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\foo.jpg";   newWidth = 50;   newHeight = 50;   image = CreateObject("component","image");   image.readImage("FILE", imagePath)   image.resize(newWidth, newHeight);   image.writeImage(variables.imagePath); </cfscript> Rick

I believe it goes more like "We don't serve French fries here, but here is a menu for the place next door, pick what you what, and we'll go and get it for you.  We'll even put it on the same bill... you'll never know that it was from next door unless we told you." Now what you are asking is for them to put it on their own menu, but still get it from next door without telling you.  I mean, yea, it would be nice, since you wouldn't have to look at the menu from the place next door, but I think you're just being lazy :-P Russ >>I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java Java is not a panacea for CF users nor an excuse for any lack of some tool in CF. Many CF developers do not wish to learn and use Java. Developers who really want to use Java would go JSP instead. It would be like a restaurant telling you "If you want some French fries with your steak, go get them for the Macdo next door" ;-) -- _______________________________________ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: piegeacon@internetique.com) Thanks.

Lazy? That's not being lazy. That's using your time to it's fullest potential. I can't really bill the time needed to learn Java or search Google for ways that I can resize images in ColdFusion. As for people who say you don't have to know Java, yes I understand. I've already mentioned I'm using the tmt_img CFC. I'm perfectly happy with it, it does what I need. I still think it would be great if MM would include this functionality in Coldfusion. That's all there is to say about it. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> I believe it goes more like "We don't serve French fries here, but here is a menu for the place next door, pick what you what, and we'll go and get it for you.  We'll even put it on the same bill... you'll never know that it was from next door unless we told you." Now what you are asking is for them to put it on their own menu, but still get it from next door without telling you.  I mean, yea, it would be nice, since you wouldn't have to look at the menu from the place next door, but I think you're just being lazy :-P Russ >>I tend to agree with other responses.  Image manipulation is available in the underlying java Java is not a panacea for CF users nor an excuse for any lack of some tool in CF. Many CF developers do not wish to learn and use Java. Developers who really want to use Java would go JSP instead. It would be like a restaurant telling you "If you want some French fries with your steak, go get them for the Macdo next door" ;-) -- _______________________________________ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: piegeacon@internetique.com) Thanks.

> Lazy? That's not being lazy. That's using your time to it's fullest > potential. I can't really bill the time needed to learn Java or search > Google for ways that I can resize images in ColdFusion. Ummm....it's called part of the job....if you already knew it all you'd be the perfect developer....IMHO if you stop learning you are dead wood (not directed at you Andy....just a  general statement). FYI...Googling was exactly how I learned what I needed...and it only took about an hour to solve the problem ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: bryan@electricedgesystems.com web: www.electricedgesystems.com

Thanks Bryan... I'm trying to learn constantly. Learning CF, javascript, Flash, mySQL , etc. The problem is that it's hard to convince the owner of my company to spring for Alagad's image component. So it's not the learning that's the problem. It's the billing of the time that's the problem. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> > Lazy? That's not being lazy. That's using your time to it's fullest > potential. I can't really bill the time needed to learn Java or search > Google for ways that I can resize images in ColdFusion. Ummm....it's called part of the job....if you already knew it all you'd be the perfect developer....IMHO if you stop learning you are dead wood (not directed at you Andy....just a  general statement). FYI...Googling was exactly how I learned what I needed...and it only took about an hour to solve the problem ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: bryan@electricedgesystems.com web: www.electricedgesystems.com

Hey Andy....tell that boss of yours that although you'd like to think you know everything in the known universe already...occasionally the task at hand requires some learning to ensure the best possible result...he/she can cough up for the tag or pay ya a few bucks to leanr something new that can be applied to future projects and make them go faster ;-) People without vison or common sense suck!! Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: bryan@electricedgesystems.com web: www.electricedgesystems.com

On 10/7/05, Russ <cflists@ruslansivak.com> wrote: > I believe it goes more like "We don't serve French fries here, but [snip] Can you equate that to the inclusion of web services in CFMX? You know they use the apache axis engine. Talk about getting the menu from the neighbors and tacking it onto your bill, what about Verity? Is that really a necessity for CF to function. No, but it sells. I see the features argument a little differently than you. Let's talk about the CF platform and its parent, Java, versus the Java platform and its parent, whatever it was written in, c or assembly or what have you, i don't know. CF is compiled through its parent to run on the JRE. Java is compiled through its parent to run on different OSes. CF has a loose collection of organized tags and functions, pre-written code that saves you time by shortcutting and tying together capabilities of its parent. Java has the java library, an organized collection of useful objects that save you time by shortcutting and tying together capabilities of its parent. CF exposes its parent by wrapping it in easy-to-use tags & functions. Java exposes its parent by wrapping it in easy-to-use objects. Without CF, you would have to write straight Java to get the job done. Without Java, you would have to write straight assembly or c++ to get the job done. CF allows developers to get around the complexities of collections (java.util.map, java.util.vector) by providing its own (struct, array). Java allows developers to get around the complexities of shifting bits and complex manipulations by providing built-in collection objects. Let's pretend CF has tags and functions for 50% of everything java provides, just in the base library. Why would CF provide us with simplifying collections, manipulating strings, regular expressions, IO and networking operations, mathematics, database connectivity and XML, but not provide us with just one more feature, simple image manipulation? Just a question to think about. Java already has the functionality there. It's built into the underlying platform. MM doesn't even have to shift bits and manually manage memory consumption, it's in Java. The fact that it hasn't been brought into the CF platform bewilders me. Maybe they're waiting for a release that they don't have enough cool, new features in. -nathan strutz http://www.dopefly.com/ On 10/7/05, Russ <cflists@ruslansivak.com> wrote: