FW: Google takes on comment spam

Originally posted by Kevin Graeme to the CF-Community list. -----Original Message----- If you're a blogger (or a blog reader), you're painfully familiar with people who try to raise their own websites' search engine rankings by submitting linked blog comments like "Visit my discount pharmaceuticals site." This is called comment spam, we don't like it either, and we've been testing a new tag that blocks it. From now on, when Google sees the attribute (rel="nofollow") on hyperlinks, those links won't get any credit when we rank websites in our search results. This isn't a negative vote for the site where the comment was posted; it's just a way to make sure that spammers get no benefit from abusing public areas like blog comments, trackbacks, and referrer lists. http://www.google.com/googleblog/2005/01/preventing-comment-spam.html -Kevin

While I applaud this, having had to deal with a penis enlargement spammer, my question is, well, probably stunningly simple and something I should know.... The "nofollow" will not be put there by the spammers presumably since they want the link to be followed... so would it get there by a script that the blog software applies to all comments? I guess? Dana ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Probably by script which means that the blog software has to be rewritten. This is really a lot of fun due to the total amount of blog software out there. Personally, I'd just run a standard spam filter against a post and 'flag' it as potential or actual spam based on content, links, etc. Simple to do. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

It probably will cut down on a certain amount of "look at this great link I found" referrals. I realize that the link will still work, but people do also legitimately do this and the site will no longer get credit for these clicks for ranking purposes. I've seen it quite a bit on the home school/parenting yahoogroups, and since yahoo is participating.... So I am thinking that viral marketing will still work but will have less effect on page rank (?) Dana ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Content is still content, visits are still visits and the end result will still be more traffic. And this will not be adopted by all. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

All I am saying is that if I on a yahoogroup say "look at house of fusion this really great site I know" any resulting clicks will not count toward your page rank. Page rank will be based more on links from web sites. Though hopefully people will be impressed and return on their own.... so you will still benefit from the worrd of mouth, just not in terms of google standing. No? Dana Ps -- I do think this is a good thing at the end of the day mind you -- I am just pondering what it means. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Right, but there is more to pagerank than incoming links (though they are important). I'd like to see the stats of having google adwords on a site, the amount of people hit the site and if it raises up the ranking in any way. Either way, you get people. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

nm I should have just looked at the link in the first place :) See below: We've also discussed this issue with colleagues at our fellow search engines and would like to thank MSN Search and Yahoo! for supporting this initiative. Here are a few guidelines for anyone else who wants to join the cause. Q: How does a link change? A: Any link that a user can create on your site automatically gets a new "nofollow" attribute. So if a blog spammer previously added a comment like Visit my <a href="http://www.example.com/">discount pharmaceuticals</a> site. That comment would be transformed to Visit my <a href="http://www.example.com/" rel="nofollow">discount pharmaceuticals</a> site. Q: What types of links should get this attribute? A: We encourage you to use the rel="nofollow" attribute anywhere that users can add links by themselves, including within comments, trackbacks, and referrer lists. Comment areas receive the most attention, but securing every location where someone can add a link is the way to keep spammers at bay. Q: Should I put rel="nofollow" on the link to my comments page? A: Probably not, because lots of interesting discussion can happen there. Also, if other people link to your comments page, a spider can follow that link and find any spam that's lurking on the comments page. The best places to add this attribute are the actual links that other people can create. So on this page, for instance, only the links within comments and the link immediately after "Posted by:" would get the rel="nofollow" attribute. Q: Do individual bloggers need to do anything? A: Probably not. Updating the software that generates these pages will ensure that most bloggers get these changes automatically. Q: Is this a blog-only change? A: No. We think any piece of software that allows others to add links to an author's site (including guestbooks, visitor stats, or referrer lists) can use this attribute. We're working primarily with blog software makers for now because blogs are such a common target. Got more questions? Email commentspam at google.com. As we spot more areas where spammers still abuse the Web, we'll contact the appropriate people in order to keep fighting comment spam. Matt Cutts, Google Software Engineer Jason Shellen, Blogger Program Manager ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

more on the comment spam issue from eweek: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1752331,00.asp?kc=ewnws011905dtx1k0000599 Search Engines, Bloggers Team to Fight Spam   By Matt Hicks January 18, 2005 Updated: Google, MSN, Six Apart and Yahoo plan to support an HTML tag to keep comment-spam postings out of search engines. Be the first to comment on this article RELATED LINKS Power Outage Knocks LiveJournal Blogs Offline Blogs' Power Stretches Far Beyond Politics Microsoft Bloggers Face Search Spam Pinch Movable Type Fixing Bug as Spam Clogs Blogs Six Apart's Movable Type 3.1 The Internet's leading search engines and a major Weblog tool vendor are joining together to fight the onslaught of spam in the comment sections of blogs. Google Inc., Microsoft Corp.'s MSN division, Yahoo Inc. and Six Apart Ltd. announced late Tuesday that they are supporting a tag called "nofollow" to exclude links in blog comments from search-engine crawlers and to prevent spam posts from influencing search rankings. Comment spam occurs when spammers attempt to dump Web site links into the comment sections of blogs. The spammers often use automated bots with the goal of trying to game search engines by increasing their link popularity. Incoming and outgoing links are a major factor in determining where a site ranks in search results. The "nofollow" tag is already a part of HTML, but Google suggested using it as a way for blogs to tell search-engine spiders to ignore hyperlinks appearing within comment sections, trackbacks and referrer lists, said Anil Dash, vice president of Six Apart's professional network. "There's an economy around link spam because of the way the search engines work right now," Dash said. "Until we address the underlying economics of it, there's not going to be a solution." Adoption of the tag by blog-publishing tools, and the support of the three largest search engines, should help take away the major incentive for spammers, since their links no longer would impact their search rankings, Dash said. Google, in a blog post, said its search crawler has begun recognizing the tag. "From now on, when Google sees the attribute (rel="nofollow") on hyperlinks, those links won't get any credit when we rank Web sites in our search results," the posting said. "This isn't a negative vote for the site where the comment was posted; it's just a way to make sure that spammers get no benefit from abusing public areas like blog comments, trackbacks and referrer lists." A Yahoo spokeswoman also said Yahoo Search will support the technique within its search index in "the coming weeks." MSN will begin recognizing the tag by the time it switches to its own search-engine technology later this year, said Justin Osmer, an MSN product manager. It also may add the support in upcoming builds of its engine in beta testing. MSN is in the process of developing search technology to replace its use of Yahoo Inc.'s results on its main search site. As for the blog tools, Six Apart is rolling out "nofollow" support across its 6.5 million users. It released a plug-in for its Movable Type software that allows users to turn on the technique for their comment sections and trackbacks, Dash said. Its TypePad service also has begun supporting it, and its recently acquired LiveJournal service will implement "nofollow" within the next few days. MSN Spaces, Microsoft's recently launched blog service, also will support publishing of the tag, though the timing has yet to be determined, Osmer said. "This is a particular case where the competitive barriers come down, and we join hands to combat this together," Osmer said "[Comment spam] hurts all of us, and it hurts our customers and our consumers." Click here to read more about how Microsoft's internal bloggers have been fighting comment spam. Other backers include the Google-owned Blogger, WordPress, blojsom and Blosxom blog tools, and the Flickr and Buzznet photo-sharing services, according to Google's announcement. No details were provided on how those tools would support the effort. Since the weekend, rumors of Google's support for the tag have circulated among leading blogs. The speculation started after Dave Winer, who publishes the Scripting News blog, wrote a vague post Friday about an upcoming announcement for a solution to "a problem on the Internet" and linked to a page from Google. Winer said earlier Tuesday that cooperation among the leading search engines is needed to put a dent in comment spam. "In general, fighting comment spam is something that the search engines are uniquely able to do something about," he said in an interview with eWEEK.com. "All the defenses that the tool vendors do add, every one of them eventually fails because comment spammers want the PageRank." PageRank is Google's technology for analyzing links and other factors to determine a site's position in search results. All of the major search engines also consider links in determining rankings. Last month, comment spam reached levels where it was knocking out Web servers at Web hosting companies that serve bloggers. Part of the rise was attributed to a bug in Six Apart's Movable Type software, which the company fixed. But bloggers in general have noted an increase in comment spam, often forcing them to disable comments, use authentication services or review comments before they are posted. About two weeks ago, Six Apart issued a 25-page guide to the comment-spam problem, Dash said. That opened a broader dialogue among search-engine and blog-tool companies, which led to the publishing of the "nofollow" attribute. Beyond blogs, other sections of Web pages with contributed links, such as bulletin boards and guest books, could use the technique to nip spammers, Dash said. Editor's Note: This story was updated to include more information from an interview with Six Apart and an announcement from Google. Check out eWEEK.com's Messaging & Collaboration Center for more on IM and other collaboration technologies.

The "nofollow" will not be put there by the spammers presumably since they want the link to be followed... so would it get there by a script that the blog software applies to all comments? I guess? Dana Exactly!  It is out of the spammers hand.  They can put the link in their comment, but since the blog software is going to modify it, they are going to get no benefit from it.  I suspect it will take some time before most if, not all blog tools apply this and then some time before all the spammers get the message and stop trying.  But it is a good thing. I wonder how this may affect those of us who do not do this in our search engine ranking. -------------- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA "C code. C code run. Run code run. Please!" - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice:  This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message.