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Dr Ruth was a paramilitary sniper

02/28/2012 02:26 PM

My misunderstanding, then. I should do some more reading on this particular time/place at some point. Cheers, Judah > > The King David Hotel was used as a military headquarters and for > housing military personnel. In a way it was a legit target if the Lehi > was a legit resistance organization. But the group also had a bombing > campaign in London that targeted officials involved with the > independence negotiations and administration of mandate territories. > > >> >> The only part that I'm going to respond to is the bit about the Hotel >> David bombing as I'm not familiar with the other intricacies you guys >> are talking about, but it was always my understanding that everyone >> has historically laughed at the post-bombing assertion that there were >> warning phoned in? I also don't think that it makes any difference, >> really. If you are blowing up a hotel, you are blowing up a hotel and >> it doesn't matter if you warned people you were going to do it or not. >> The hotel, as far as I'm aware, wasn't a military installation.  I >> admit that my knowledge of these events isn't in depth but even I know >> something of the Hotel David bombing and I'm pretty sure the >> historical consensus is that it was a flat out terrorist act. >> >> Also, Michael, you said that Dr. Ruth was actually part of a different >> group and that the article I mentioned is incorrect. Do you have a >> source for that? I'm really curious, I had no idea that Dr. Ruth was a >> sniper :) >> >> Cheers, >> Judah >> >> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Michael Dinowitz >> <> wrote: >>> >>> Before I respond to the specific points you made, I'm going to have to >>> do more research. I do know that it was not some innocent and peaceful >>> village with no combatants, no history of attacks, and no reason for >>> being attacked. I especially want to look up that accusation about the >>> Lehi negotiating with the Nazis. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Deir Yassin - most of the people killed were civilians. According to >>>> what I read, many were killed execution style. Assassination of 2 >>>> peace negotiators. The Lehi negotiated with the Nazis and attempted to >>>> ally with them. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Michael Dinowitz >>>> <> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I would not use the term radical but I would use the term terrorist. >>>>> The Irgun started as a retaliatory organization to instill terror in >>>>> those who targeted Jews. The British were not protecting Jews in the >>>>> area so the Irgun took an 'eye for an eye' approach. They did not >>>>> initiate violence till later in their existence and that violence >>>>> mainly targeted the British government that was in control of the area >>>>> at the time. >>>>> >>>>> The term atrocity is a totally loaded one and its use is debatable in >>>>> reference to the Irgun. The bombing of the King David Hotel (the >>>>> center of British government control of the area) was accompanied by >>>>> multiple warnings to which were ignored. The truth of Deir Yassin is >>>>> so convoluted between scholarship of facts, of politics, of >>>>> propaganda, and of 'alternate' views that it can barely be used in any >>>>> clear conversation. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not going into the British double standards that helped breed the >>>>> Irgun. Too similar to what is still happening. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Haganah was formed in the 20's after the anti-Jewish riots in Palestine. >>>>>> They were primarily defensive, protecting jewish settlements. After the war >>>>>> of independence in 1948 they became the IDF. The Irgun was a radical >>>>>> splinter group that left the Haganah in the early 30's. They fit more >>>>>> within the mold of a terrorist group using assassinations, kidnapping and >>>>>> bombings to try and achive independence. During 1944 the Haganah with the >>>>>> cooperation of the British went to war with the Irgun.  BTW there was an >>>>>> Arab batallion in the Haganah. The last group the Lehi or Stern Gang was >>>>>> even more radical than the Irgun. Even though the 3 groups reached a peace >>>>>> accord in 1945, during the war of independence the Irgun and Stern Gang >>>>>> were associated with a number of atrocities. The Haganah and Palmach were >>>>>> responsible for bringing the perpetrators to the Israeli courts after >>>>>> independence. Monachim Begen, a right wing Prime Minister of Israel was one >>>>>> of the leaders of the Irgun. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael and Judith may have a different take on the history though. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm really not familiar with the various groups that operated in the >>>>>>> area between the end of WWII and the declaration of statehood in 48. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Judah >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Larry C. Lyons <<javascript:;>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Pity she belonged to a terrorist group. Haganah I can see, but a group >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> > used terrorism and bombings on civilians, peacekeeepers and other  Jewish >>>>>>> > defensive groups I find beyond the pale. At least it was not the Stern >>>>>>> Gang. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Dr. Ruth also talks a little about her Orthodox Jewish parents. During >>>>>>> >> World War II, Westheimer was sent from Frankfurt to a children's home >>>>>>> >> in Switzerland after her father was rounded up by the Nazis; both her >>>>>>> >> parents later died in the Holocaust. She was an only child. The war >>>>>>> >> ended when she was 16. "I then went to Palestine, lived on a kibbutz, >>>>>>> >> which is a collective farm," she explains, "and then worked in the >>>>>>> >> underground movement as a sniper." (Dr. Ruth was a member of the >>>>>>> >> Zionist paramilitary group the Irgun.) "So if you don't ask me good >>>>>>> >> questions today, watch out," she teases interviewer Derek Blasberg. "I >>>>>>> >> can still put five bullets in a little red circle." >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> From the article: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Huh. Definitely something I did not know about Dr. Ruth. She's a >>>>>>> >> fascinating individual and damn smart. I'd love to have a drink with >>>>>>> >> her some time. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Cheers, >>>>>>> >> Judah >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

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