what? we missed a major news issue

yeh.. any one who is considering suicide as an alt out should really look at how it can affect those around you. his dad killed himn self 4 years earlier. very sad.

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- This is all over the news here.  One thing to note is that this happened on an Indian reservation that's pretty remote and pretty impoverished.  There's no doubt it's a tragedy, but I agree with you: The kid is teased all of the time, wears a black trench coat with other goth accessories, is fascinated with Nazi propaganda and gruesome images, and told a few people he was going to do it.  Not to mention his Dad committed suicide and his mother suffered brain damage in an accident and was living 100s of miles away.

> Jochem wrote: > http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:Dlr86foA5hcJ:www.nazi.org/current/forum/YaBB.cgi%3Fboard%3Dnativeamerican%3Baction%3Dprint%3Bnum%3D1079672948+%22Jeff+Weise%22++Todesengel > Holy Sh1t!

Real sad. It looks like all the signs were there but no one paid any attention. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:24:48 -0500, Howie Hamlin <howie@coolfusion.com> wrote: > http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html

What else is sad is that the signs are probably there for hundreds of kids across the nation right now, as we speak.  But - we'll say the same thing the next time: "What a tragedy, this is so sad and it could have been prevented." Hindsight is 20/20, I guess. At 01:01 PM 3/24/2005, you wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

But not in combination. Moreover given what the kid has gone through in the last 5 or six years - father killing himself after a police shootout, mother in a coma after an accident, facination with firearms,death, dying and killing, the attraction to neonazis, major problems with a strict and very rigid caretaker, etc., to me this screams major problems. Hell he was arrested almost a year ago because of a school shooting plot. In addition we're talking about a reserve where there is over 40% unemployment, rampant alcoholism, glue sniffing etc. this sounds like a fairly good set of predictors for a shooting. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:06:21 -0500, Ray Champagne <ray@cvwp.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>> this sounds like a fairly good set of predictors for a shooting. Well, that or a very special episode of "Growing Pains". - Jim

Or an after school special. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:24:22 -0600, Jim Campbell <jim@inomi.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Jim wrote: >  >> this sounds like a fairly good set of predictors for a shooting. > > Well, that or a very special episode of "Growing Pains". > ROTFL!  This is sad, but it's good to have a laugh too.

Any sitcom that can get away with a male character named "Boner"....is a winner in my book ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I'm surprised people haven't started blaming music and games for this like they do almost every time.. "He was playing GTA the day before, that has to be why he did it! Let's sue Rock Star!" or "He was listening to Type O Negative, thats why he did it". I don't feel sorry for this kid.. I know a lot of people who had it hard growing up.. thats no reason to go and take lives.. this kid deserves a shitty afterlife too. On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:16:58 -0600, G <brian.grant@si-intl-kc.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Still sounds like a lot of kids I knew growing up that turned out fine. Sometimes it's a fine line between predicting the act and the desire. Surviving the teenage years is a bitch. It's amazing to me that so many of us do. -Kevin On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:20:04 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Yes and there are definite issues... supposing someone had "done something"? What would that have been exactly? The grandfather presumably was trying. If he was a tribal police officer odds are he was respected and had a good grasp of the culture. I wonder if he tried any sort of ceremony. Who else was there? All of his teachers, he says, were white. The Ojibwe I talked to in Sault Ste Marie considered their culture endangered. Certainy it seens as though this kid had some issues with cultural identity and would not have responded well to a teacher reaching out, nor to a peer, all of whome he considered too wrapped up in african-american culture... I don't know much about Ojibwe culture but it's a shame there wasn't a warrior society or something of the kind to take this kid in hand. I *could* point out that Gruss doesn't want us to interfere in families. But that would be a cheap shot and really the kid deserves more than to be a point in an ideological debate. Dana On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:54:24 -0600, Kevin Graeme <kgraeme@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Not Objibwa, Chippewa. Different nation entirely. Same circumstances though. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:29:58 -0600, Dana <dana.tierney@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

On the Nationalist (neo-nazi) forum that he reputedly posted to he mentioned his Ojibwe teachers. -Kevin On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:48:13 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > Not Objibwa, Chippewa. Different nation entirely. Same circumstances though. > > larry

Interesting. I grew up just north of there - in Manitoba and northwestern Ontario. That area is mostly Northern Cree and Chippewa. From what I remember people from those nations/tribes did not get along with the Objibwa. Then again, I could just be misremembering. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:13:51 -0600, Kevin Graeme <kgraeme@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I worked as an intern at a small, regional heritage museum several years ago. It was just south of Chippewa County in Wisconsin and they had an exhibit of the local native American peoples and IIRC it heavily featured the Ojibwe. I can't really speak to any historical rivalries of the nations though. -Kevin On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:22:56 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

It was so long ago that I am most likely mistaken. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:39:24 -0600, Kevin Graeme <kgraeme@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

you sure? I was going by his post where he makes reference to an Ojibwe-language teacher. Maybe they are subgroups? But I know nothing at all about Chippewa, as opposed to very little about the Ojibwe. Still, I suspect my comments still apply. Some tribes have a men's society or a warrior society that trains young boys... I wonder if such a group would have helped. If it was part of the culture that is. And for all I know it is, and he turned down the opportunity to join. Dana On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:48:13 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Its been years, and I might be wrong, what I do remember is that the Chippewa and Objibwa would get into very nasty fights in the bars in and around Kenora Ontario. larry On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:29:10 -0600, Dana <dana.tierney@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Must have been from different bands as it's the same tribe http://www.native-languages.org/chippewa.htm On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:37:54 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Dana wrote: > I *could* point out that Gruss doesn't want us to interfere in > families. Have some guts!  You took the shot anyway, you just pointed it over my head.  I not so entirely humorless that I wouldn't have laughed - which I did.  Good one :) You're right though, I think the gov't should stay out of family business *unless* there's a clear and present danger to the community which, in this case, there was.  In that case I think the government definitely has the right to approach the family privately to make the case. You're trying to compare apples and oranges.