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Can someone please respond to this guy?
Author: Mary Jo Sminkey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216490
>Thanks, Mary Jo, for your perspective on CF and how well it's doing. I hope
>your business continues to thrive.
Thanks so much...I am really excited to get my next major release done (due in
2007). Finally decided it's time to drop CF 5 support and make full use of CFCs,
just really go to town with what's possible. I'm already seeing some amazing
improvements in speed, even with adding tons more functionality and still having
a lot of work to do yet. I'm really more impressed than I expected to be...almost
makes me wish I didn't wait so long to move up, but I actually was still getting
CF 5 customers on a semi-regular basis...some people just never upgrade! But I'm
expecting this to be such an awesome product, people will convert to CF just to
use it. ;-)
On another note...a lot of people mention the cost of ColdFusion, but the basic
BlueDragon server with SSL support is only $899. Still not free, but a pretty
reasonable price...and it really has come a long way and is a very strong
competitor to CF, IMO. I've had a number of users run CFWebstore on BD and they
rave about how fast it is. Haven't gotten to try Ralio (sp?) yet but I'm curious
to see how it would do on that as well.
--- Mary Jo
Author: Robert Munn
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216485
yes, that was me... good to see the cf community showing up to represent.
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--
---------------
Robert Munn
www.funkymojo.com
Author: Judith Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216484
Well, I am so happy to see the responses to Mr. Utter (I'm restraining
myself here) because I think they do great credit to the community, and to
ColdFusion. Tim, Erika and Robert, I thought each of your posts was gold.
(Robert, I assume you were CFMunster.)
Thanks, Mary Jo, for your perspective on CF and how well it's doing. I hope
your business continues to thrive.
Charlie, I thought your blog entry was classic. Good response!
Judith
----- Original Message -----
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Author: Mary Jo Sminkey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216363
Enjoyed reading all the comments in this thread. It's good to see that ColdFusion
still has a lot of great advocates out there! I've gotten some inquiries in the
last few months if I would be converting CFWebstore to .Net or PHP since CF is
"dying" (again??) and my response has always been that my sales don't reflect
that and that CF is just ideal for my product. The last thing I personally want
to do is try to jump to a different market where there are already a huge number
of competing apps with a big head start, and currently I don't see any need for
it. So many people setting up stores just don't have a lot of programming
expertise, they mainly just know HTML and CF is just ideal for them to have to
learn the basics of, enough to do simple edits...such as you very commonly need
to do with any canned application. In fact, I just got an email yesterday from a
user who raved about how easy it was for him with no CF experience at all to get
his store set up and customized for his exact needs. As much as I'd like to take
all the credit for that (lol) it definitely says a lot about CF and how perfect
it is for these kinds of off-the-shelf products. Really the only limitation I run
into sometimes is with a customer that already has hosting somewhere, and they
don't offer CF support.
--------------------
Mary Jo Sminkey
http://www.cfwebstore.com
CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce
Author: Jerry Johnson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216343
How many non positives don't not equal a non negative?
> LOL..how many negatives equal a positive? I'm confused!
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216342
no worries. i appreciate feedback.
and i appreciate that people are actually reading what i wrote (even
if it makes their brains hurt) :)
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Author: Ray Champagne
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216340
Yea, I'm just bustin on ya. That was a good response, BTW. Who knew we had
so many verbose ppl in the CF community? You, Erika, Loathe...
Jim Davis' little short was pretty cool, too.
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technical.
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Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216339
updated :)
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--
Charlie Griefer
================================================
"...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies,
and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch
you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning.
Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed."
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216338
lol...yeah, i paused for a good few minutes after writing that :)
but if i stop too long my train of thought derails... so i just kinda
forged along.
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Author: Ray Champagne
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216337
Charlie, this sentence made my brain hurt:
"that doesn't sound particularly anti-non-CF to me"
LOL..how many negatives equal a positive? I'm confused!
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Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216335
heh. you need to pick cooler people to copy then :)
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Author: loathe
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216334
I am a bad person that copies people to look cool:
http://cfblog.com/Loathe/
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Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216329
ok so charlie's blogging now (yes, this idiot actually got me worked
up enough to write a blog entry)
http://cfblog.com/cgriefer/
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Author: Ray Champagne
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216316
I love it. Hitting the topic from all angles, community and technical.
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Author: Erika L. Walker
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216313
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=325889#325889
Cheers,
Erika
Author: G Money
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216305
Yes we do...we've all seen your less diplomatic side :)
Good post.
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Author: loathe
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216304
You have no idea how hard it was to be nice :)
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Author: Ray Champagne
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216303
Good post.
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actually
> offer you.
>
> One of the biggest complaints that I hear about CF is the cost of the
> license. Now, I am a government developer. This means of course that we
can
> usually get reduced pricing as Macromedia, and now Adobe, really has seen
> the largest growth of CF in the government sector, and I think they would
> like to continue that growth.
>
> The licensing is greatly offset by the ease and speed of development and
the
> built in integration with many cutting edge technologies such as Web
> Services, Flash, Flex, Ajax and the new gateways and listeners opening the
> possibilities into a further expansion of the technologies that CF will
> easily interact with.
>
> SEO complaints are unfair. If you are a good developer and know what you
> are doing you can easily optimize any site or application for search
engine
> crawling. Any language can be badly written. That is dependent on the
> developer at hand. The fact that CF seems to have a higher number of
> non-traditional programmers, ones that maybe didn't go to college or
didn't
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make
> a good living, and I am able to continue to expand my skill set and my
> abilities.
>
> Finally, I'm Tim/Loathe, I spend a lot of time over at House of Fusion.
No
> one over there is hiding from you; honestly we were just discussing what
> seemed to be your obvious distaste for the language, coupled with your
> obvious lack of knowledge about CF, as a language, an application server
or
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Author: loathe
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216301
I signed up over there. Here's my post:
To be honest I'm surprised to hear this question coming from someone that
has obviously done some minimal research.
You mention several of our communities biggest and most well known
advocates, you see the money that is being made off of publication of
ColdFusion resources, now let's touch on just a bit of what CF can actually
offer you.
One of the biggest complaints that I hear about CF is the cost of the
license. Now, I am a government developer. This means of course that we can
usually get reduced pricing as Macromedia, and now Adobe, really has seen
the largest growth of CF in the government sector, and I think they would
like to continue that growth.
The licensing is greatly offset by the ease and speed of development and the
built in integration with many cutting edge technologies such as Web
Services, Flash, Flex, Ajax and the new gateways and listeners opening the
possibilities into a further expansion of the technologies that CF will
easily interact with.
SEO complaints are unfair. If you are a good developer and know what you
are doing you can easily optimize any site or application for search engine
crawling. Any language can be badly written. That is dependent on the
developer at hand. The fact that CF seems to have a higher number of
non-traditional programmers, ones that maybe didn't go to college or didn't
intended to become developers, seems to have created a glut of bad
applications. This isn't the fault of either the language or the
application server. You can see very close similarity in some of the PHP
projects that are out there that are horribly written.
Something else that I think is important to point out. The majority of
development done in CF is for web based applications, not web sites. The
audience for CF is working on closed systems for government and industry
intranet applications primarily.
Additional attention I think needs to be paid to the government angle. A
lot of the developers I know work in defense, law enforcement and
intelligence. We cannot talk about a lot of the applications we work on.
They are classified. However if you go to the Adobe site you can see the
depth and breadth of the agencies that are using CF for internal software
development.
Anyway, I have to be honest; I think your original article was both
uninformed and offensive to me as a CF developer. I just did a search for
ColdFusion jobs on monster.com and came up with hundreds of jobs. These
jobs are not low level and low pay positions with some piker web dev shed;
these are senior level positions in corporate and government circles.
I am happy with CF, even though I have and continue to write other
languages, it is my preference for doing browser based applications. I make
a good living, and I am able to continue to expand my skill set and my
abilities.
Finally, I'm Tim/Loathe, I spend a lot of time over at House of Fusion. No
one over there is hiding from you; honestly we were just discussing what
seemed to be your obvious distaste for the language, coupled with your
obvious lack of knowledge about CF, as a language, an application server or
a community of developers.
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Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216285
he's an asshat.
because he doesn't want to subscribe (where he's be able to see all of
our names), he says we're hiding under tne "anonymity" of the site.
he closes his article with "ColdFusion deserves better". That's
particularly true of the person that webpronews chose to assign to its
coverage of ColdFusion.
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Author: Judith Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#216284
By the way, the guy did a follow-up article where he took a jab at HoF and
this list.
http://www.webpronews.com/expertarticles/expertarticles/wpn-62-20060925ColdFusionMattersAndYourResponses.html
Sorry for the crazy wrap.
Judith
Author: G Money
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215385
That's good to hear. Maybe this area is just an exception then.
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--
"Ma Teresa joined the mob, and is happy with her full time job."
Author: Robert Munn
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215358
Search for ColdFusion or "Cold Fusion". 911 jobs.
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--
---------------
Robert Munn
www.funkymojo.com
Author: Robert Munn
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215356
I just posted a rather lengthy reply here:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=323348#323348
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--
---------------
Robert Munn
www.funkymojo.com
Author: Judith Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215354
They're always going to find more opportunities with .NET and Java. Java is
a full-fledged application language and is not in the same category as
ColdFusion. It covers many more things. .NET is not as good as ColdFusion,
but it's Microsoft -- what do you expect? The popularity of those languages
are hardly an indicator of a problem for ColdFusion.
In fact, I just did a wonderful interview with Jeff Whatcott at Adobe which
will come out as soon as we get it transcribed (The print issue is taking
precedence here) where he says that many people who switched to Java from
ColdFusion switched back when CFMX 7 came out, and are still switching back.
The point is that none of the stats on Monster for .NET and Java tell you
anything about ColdFusion.
But this is all old hat and old news... People have been saying this on and
on, forever and ever, and it's just getting old.
Believe me -- ColdFusion isn't dying. It's not going away. .NET and Java
will always have a bigger market share but so what?
We'll always have a job. And there will always be more ColdFusion jobs.
Judith
----- Original Message -----
> But if you search for .NET or Java you get more results than Monster can
> display.
>
> There are 389 Java listing for DC alone. My point was that new programmers
> looking at what they want to learn will find far more opportunities with
> ..NET or Java
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215353
there might be more openings...but there also might be more developers
to fill those openings (which isn't necessarily a bad thing...)
as far as the number of CF openings...i was recently in the job market
and was pretty pleasantly surprised. Had a few interviews in FL
(where I was living at the time), a phone interview with a company in
CT, applied to a job in DC, and interviewed with/accepted a job in CA
(oh yeah, and emailed a guy in Omaha) :)
and the fact of the matter is i wasn't even looking too terribly hard
(I got -very- lucky in that the first job I applied to was the one I
really wanted...so I checked out a few other places just so as to not
put all my eggs into one proverbial basket). If I really started
sending out resumes and scouring the job boards, I'm sure I would have
had a lot more opportunities available to me (I did see quite a few in
NC as well as a few other locations that I didn't apply to).
basically...i felt as tho I had my choice as to where in the US I
wanted to live, and still be able to work with CF.
so there may very well be more Java/.NET openings...but the ratio of
developer to available opening has to play a factor as well.
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Author: Michael Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215352
Have you seen CF-Jobs? We've been getting more and more every day. Have you
noticed that Flex app on the side of HoF? The one to Developer Circuit? There are
ColdFusion jobs galore. I'm even trying to get companies to fund free training in
return for advertising.
Author: Nick McClure
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215351
But if you search for .NET or Java you get more results than Monster can
display.
There are 389 Java listing for DC alone. My point was that new programmers
looking at what they want to learn will find far more opportunities with
.NET or Java
> I can say the exact opposite.
>
> Here in DC there are always jobs for CF developers available. I just did
> a
> monster.com search and 525 current CF openings in the US. Not bad
> considering. I will say that these jobs seem to be focused in big cities.
Author: Michael Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215350
The guy is an ass and has always been an ass. Ben and/or I have to refute one of
his posts on an almost monthly basis. He's just desperate for content and wants
us to provide it. I'll do so, but on my blog.
Freekin troll
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Author: loathe
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215348
I can say the exact opposite.
Here in DC there are always jobs for CF developers available. I just did a
monster.com search and 525 current CF openings in the US. Not bad
considering. I will say that these jobs seem to be focused in big cities.
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Author: G Money
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215338
Without reading that clown, I can echo Nick's experience here in KC too. Our
company just approved a 5 year contract which will see all of our legacy CF
programs re-written in .NET, removing the last of the CF remnants from our
apps.
Ex-coworkers of mine who went for new jobs the last few years around here
were required to learn either Java or ASP.NET for their new positions. They
were basically hired only because the company had faith in their ability to
transition from CF to another language.
Do these trends make CF worthless or ineffective? Hardly. I still think CF
can be one of the best application languages out there.....but locally
anyway, it's becoming more and more scarce. Just an unfortunate reality i'm
afraid.
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--
"Ma Teresa joined the mob, and is happy with her full time job."
Author: Nick McClure
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215337
I think he asks some interesting questions, like the job market, Lexington
doesn't have anybody wanting CF developers.
The companies that were doing custom CF work are now gone, either out of
business or doing .NET or Java. There are some companies that are running CF
internally, but it isn't very common, and they aren't hiring.
If you want a programming job around here it is either Java or .NET
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Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215336
not sure it's even worth it. sounds like a troll trying to get some publicity.
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Author: Matthew Vecera
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:22251#215335
This is an article written by David A. Utter, "Hey ColdFusion Pros, Why Use It?"
that was published today.
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/wpn-60-20060913HeyColdFusionProsWhyUseIt.html
It is FULL of infuriating, uninformed remarks, like:
"Java, Ruby, ASP.NET, PHP, Python, these languages all get the buzz when it comes
to online application development. I am curious about why ColdFusion even matters
today."
At the end of the article, he asks for CF Developers to chime in. I did. I
would ask any amount of you that constitutes "a slew" to do the same.
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May 17, 2012
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