What A Speech

If you haven't seen it, it's here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/24/obama-in-berlin-video-of_n_114771.html 200,000 Germans waving American flags and dyed red, white, and blue hair can not be a bad thing.

Was nodding off to sleep last night, thumbing through the channels, not watching anything, getting ready to turn the TV off, when I came across Obama speaking. I watched the whole thing. He really is a magnificent speaker. On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Gruss Gott <grussgott@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> He really is a magnificent speaker. Only for prepared speeches - if he's going off the cuff he's got more of a verbal pause problem than I do!

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh was "critiquing" one of his speeches yesterday, and instead of focusing on WHAT he was saying, he focused on HOW he was saying it. The far right is getting pretty desperate. On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey <chumphrey@gmail.com>wrote: > > He really is a magnificent speaker. > > Only for prepared speeches - if he's going off the cuff he's got more > of a verbal pause problem than I do!

>> > He really is a magnificent speaker. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I think the critique, mine in particular, is more at these people that are fawning over how great of a speaker he is and how his ability to deliver a prepared speech makes him more qualified to be a good President.  For all we know the man may not understand half of what he's saying. If you really want to know what someone thinks, wait for an open mic... just ask Jesse Jackson! And don't get me wrong, verbal pauses are not the sign of a lack of intelligence!  They can be indicative of any number of things, from searching for the right way to phrase something (whether it be because of the audience or the subject matter) to buying time because there's nothing coming into the gray matter. They just sound out of place for someone who is supposed to be a master orator. On the other side of the coin, I watched a McCain press conference a few weeks ago and he had this weird quirk where he would flash this completely fake smile about every 4 minutes.  Creeped me out! Hatton

the pauses cared me a couple months ago... then i listened to his speech when it became apparent he was the presumptive nominee... WOW, no looking down, nothing... impressive! the mccain quirks are smarmy like bush quirks and smirks... weird, old, technologically illiterate, out of touch with society, more in touch with "the old ways" of running a country, just weird... again, i dont care about what HE KNOWS... he has cabinet, he has a congress, he has the population of the GREAT US OF A to steer him... we simply need him to be a bearer of olive branches and hope for the future of the world... since we are no longer an island that is autonomous... we are a world that must learn to live together. -- tony Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace. -- siddhartha gautama On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:52 AM, C. Hatt ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Someone started their weekend a little early.... LOL > ... we simply need him to be a bearer > of olive branches and hope > for the future of the world... since we are no longer an island that > is autonomous... we are a world that > must learn to live together. >

> apparent he was the presumptive nominee... WOW, no looking down, > nothing... impressive! It's called a teleprompter, they're placed so a presenter can look out without looking down. > again, i dont care about what HE KNOWS... he has cabinet, he has a > congress, he has the population > of the GREAT US OF A to steer him... we simply need him to be a bearer > of olive branches and hope > for the future of the world... since we are no longer an island that > is autonomous... we are a world that > must learn to live together. Hmmm... interesting argument; you would rather have a figurehead president that needs the gravitas of his cabinet and potential veep. If that doesn't sound familiar, it should... look a the barbs the left threw at GWB in the run-up to the 2000 election.  Actually, the funny thing is that Obama has less experience now than Bush did at his first run. Also, if Obama is such the candidate for change, which is the "future" you speak of, why is he using standing party officials (I'll keep this nice and not say hacks) to support him? Hatton

your missing my point... i believe whole heartedly that with technology, and charisma and his ability to win NATIONS of people over, not just ours that he has the power to change things in a positive manner unlike the cavalier fuck nut shrub.... we CANNOT GO ANY FARTHER DOWN the international tubes of hatred...  we have to change that, and thats priority one, or we will bear the brunt of the OTHER "coalition of the willing" that is mounting up in front of shrubs ranch! so, does that require on the job experience... i do not think so. shrub and barack are of no comparison, they are so diametrically opposed to each other on the compassion, charisma, intelligent delivery of idea scales that to put them in the same sentence is almost blasphemous. so, do i think barack can take the reigns even tho he may be a bit under experienced and do a billion times better job than the current administration of the continuation of that administration with mccain? haha, nope. listen, you know VERY well c hat hump that mccain aint gonna pull this off and i think its REALLY starting to hurt... i truly do... we are arguing the position of intelligence and delivery of speeches... thats how petty its become... you know i think, deep down that the clear person for the job is barack, i know you and the rest of the country knows, shit, hundreds of thousands of germans know, and im sure many more in many other countries, and when they can see that they have some solidarity with us and finally we are voting out the crap and puttin in the man... the perception of the USA in the world theatre will change, they will say... hmmm, maybe americans are not so fnckin dumb after all and yes jerry it has started :) -- tony Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace. -- siddhartha gautama On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, C. Hatt ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>your missing my point... > >so, does that require on the job experience... i do not think so. You shouldn't be allowed to vote:) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- This is actually pretty funny. Germany had free rock concerts before and after Obama, just like in Oregon. Why didn't he visit the military hospital in Germany? France isn't excited about him visiting. Britain is making fun of him. Now his conservative supporter says he jumped the shark: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/25/opinion/25brooks.html?hp [H]e has grown accustomed to putting on this sort of saccharine show for the rock concert masses, and in Berlin his act jumped the shark. His words drift far from reality, and not only when talking about the Senate Banking Committee. His Berlin Victory Column treacle would have made [Reinhold] Niebuhr sick to his stomach. Obama has benefited from a week of good images. But substantively, optimism without reality isn’t eloquence. It's just Disney.

> Sam wrote: > Now his conservative supporter says he jumped the shark: > I'm a big fan of Brooks and listen to him on PBS every week, as well as read his column. I certainly wouldn't say he's a "conservative supporter".  I've heard him argue against Obama, and in favor of McCain, every week for number of months - not to mention for the last year. You should watch Shields & Brooks or podcast. That's having been said, his analysis this week - while consistent with his support for McCain - misses one oppressively large detail: Obama is not a President. You cannot compare a non-president to a president and say one is grounded in reality while the other isn't. Ironically, to do so, is to join disneyland yourself. Obama's sphere of influence right now is limited to inspiring in principle - enacting in policy position (reality) - will need to wait until he's elected. Brooks is partisan, and so I expect he knows that.  He's hoping you don't, but now you do.

Whaaat? Are you OD'ing on Kool-aid? Reality doesn't matter because he's not president yet? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Sam  wrote: > Whaaat? > Are you OD'ing on Kool-aid? > Reality doesn't matter because he's not president yet? > As a candidate, you can only speak in principle because you're not president and thus can effect no policy change. It's like going to an interview for a developer position and thinking you're going to leave having tweaked some code. You can talk in principle during the interview about how you might solve some problems, but if the interviewer expects you're going to actually fix the reality of their code - then they're not being very ethical.

So he didn't say as president he would draw down troops in Iraq and send them to Afghanistan? Talk to Iran without preconditions? So if all he can say is a giant group hug will create world peace I guess I will have to trust he knows what he's talking about. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Sam wrote: > So he didn't say as president he would draw down troops in Iraq and send them to Afghanistan? Talk to Iran without preconditions? In principle he has yes. Don't you think there's a difference between a candidate saying he'd do something and a President?

You’re evading again. How do you defend someone holding a campaign rally in a foreign country talking down American saying while saying nothing, but that nothing will fix the world? It is Disney. > In principle he has yes. > > Don't you think there's a difference between a candidate saying he'd > do something and a President?

> Sam wrote: > You're evading again. Evading what?  Your subjective opinon?  No, I'm addressing it head on. I have no problem with any american citizen travelling abroad.  If an American does travel abroad, I have no problem with them holding a rally that gets non-americans to dye their hair red, white, and blue and wave American flags. Since Sen Obama is an American, I have no problem with his travel abroad.  That's the nice thing about being an American - there's lots of places that we don't need visas for and the EU is one of them. As to Brooks' point of comparison between Kennedy, Reagan, and Obama, I will again point out that the former 2 were presidents and thus represented 1/3 or America's 3 branches of government and its full diplomatic strength; while Obama simply represents himself as an American - which was exactly what he stated in his speech. Thus no comparison is warranted, accurate, or useful beyond comparing the quality of the speech in inspirational value and, in that respect, Obama was Kennedy and Reagan's equal. That's good company to be equated to, and even better that the equation is equal.

And that should have been a warning about the shrub, he did a good job of fecking up parts of Texas that's still trying to recover, education for instance. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:52 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey <chumphrey@gmail.com>wrote: > I think the critique, mine in particular, is more at these people that > are fawning over how great of a speaker he is and how his ability to > deliver a prepared speech makes him more qualified to be a good > President.  For all we know the man may not understand half of what > he's saying. You can thank George W. Bush for that, by the way. -- Once in awhile you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right

>> I think the critique, mine in particular, is more at these people that ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I can thank GWB for Obama's lack of understanding what he's saying? No, I don't think that's what you meant; you mean that we can look at GWB as another example of that. I don't think you can find a politician within the beltway that is fluent on many of the issues; being able to read a prepared speech on an issue does not transfer knowledge, regardless of who you are. Hatton

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:46 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey <chumphrey@gmail.com>wrote: > I can thank GWB for Obama's lack of understanding what he's saying? > > No, I don't think that's what you meant; you mean that we can look at > GWB as another example of that. > Wrong on both counts. I meant you can thank GWB for the American people's current infatuation with a candidate who can speak clearly. -- Once in awhile you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right

> gMoney wrote: > I meant you can thank GWB for the American people's current infatuation with > a candidate who can speak clearly. > If we built the perfect candidate, they'd have all of the following qualities: * Well spoken: such that he can align, focus, and inspire people and nations behind a cause * Well intentioned: such that, as much as possible, the leader thinks of the greater good and designs solutions and initiatives around that. * Well connected: has the network needed to quickly gather, synthesize, and socialize data about problems and issues. * Well reasoned: has a strong sense of logic and data driven decision making rather than ideological or "perfect world"; i.e., doesn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good * Well resourced: needs to have access to money and resources to quickly enable and follow through on initiatives. Barak Obama has proven that he's: 1.) Well spoken.  'nuff said. 2.) Well intentioned.  His community activism over big money, his choice of public service over business, his support and advocacy for families, his constitutional scholarship, et al. 3.) Well connected.  Obama has been able to build, over 2 years, a political network that's unprecedented.  So powerful that he was able to overcome the ultimate connection mavens, the Clintons. 4.) Well reasoned.  Any of his former colleagues at UofC or Harvard will tell you that he ALWAYS solicits opinions from every source before deciding and will frequently change his mind in light of new data. 5.) Well resourced.  He's got the largest campaign staff and raised money than any candidate in history. Is he perfect?  No.  As a candidate he's black, has a funny and foreign name, doesn't have a long service record, and has no strong record of executive leadership. As a person, he's human and too liberal (so far) in comparison to me. But given the choice between ANY 70+ year old and him, he wins.  The fact that the 72 year old is McCain put a 10 ton weight onto that cement.