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Coup in Maldives
Author: Jerry Barnes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#346745
Mohamed Nasheed was recently ousted as the President of Maldives in a coup
led by the vice president. While he was president, Nasheed appeared to be
a vocal leader on the threat of climate change, especially to small island
states.
Interestingly enough, the concern over the dangers of climate change may
have been a little disingenuous. It seems that Maldives signed the
Copenhagen Agreement in 2009 only after the US offered to pay them 50
millions dollars.
This was discovered after a document dump by wikileaks. More interesting
is that the document dump revealed that the US was using state department
officials to spy on the representatives from other countries in order to
find leverage to force them to sign the agreement. They also resorted to
flat out bullying to get a consensus.
Interesting stuff.
I found most of this info a Democracy Now. I appreciate their model for
existence. From wiki:
The program is funded entirely through contributions from listeners,
viewers, and foundations and does not accept advertisers, corporate
underwriting, or government funding
If they would do away with funding from foundations, it would be a great
source for news.
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/2/7/headlines/maldives_president_resigns_amid_protests_police_mutiny
Mohamed Nasheed, the president of the Maldives, has resigned after weeks of
protests erupted into a police mutiny. In 2008, Nasheed became the first
democratically elected leader of the Maldives. He gained international fame
for his passionate warnings about the dangers of climate change to
low-lying islands. His reputation was tarnished after the publication of a
cable by WikiLeaks that suggested the Maldives signed on to the U.S.-backed
Copenhagen climate accord in exchange for $50 million.
http://rabble.ca/columnists/2010/12/wikileaks-reveals-us-dirty-business-climate-change-talks
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/251174
J
-
Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to
produce citizens capable of dominating their government, as the education
of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires? - Alan Keyes
Author: Gruss Gott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#346896
Is the point
A.) That Wikipedia isn't always accurate or
B.) That politicians say things in exchange for money or
C.) That the US tries to influence others to its policy views?
Because none of that seems surprising unless I'm missing something ...
On Feb 14, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jerry Barnes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347004
"A.) That Wikipedia isn't always accurate or"
Did you mean wikileaks?
"B.) That politicians say things in exchange for money or"
That's a truism. Some would have you believe that all members of one party
do it and no members of the opposition do it, but they would be wrong.
"C.) That the US tries to influence others to its policy views?"
Another truism.
"Because none of that seems surprising unless I'm missing something ..."
Possibly.
"Is the point ... "
more concerned with the policy? Yes. Specifically, the necessity of having
to bribe or bully nations into accepting a policy that is supposedly a
consensus and one that is trying to save the world.
J
-
In other words, a democratic government is the only one in which those who
vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it. - Alexis de Tocqueville
Author: Gruss Gott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347032
The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy. This is typically
referred to as "American Exceptionalism"
Isn't that a core Republican Party value? An aggressive foreign policy that
promotes American philosophy? Wasn't that the entire justification for the
invasion of Iraq? "That the World is better off ( so says W) without Hussein"?
Is your point, therefore, that you disagree with American Exceptualism (which
includes bribing and bullying foreign countries to align them to US policy)?
On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jerry Barnes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347092
"The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy."
I do believe you are missing the point completely. A country that
complains that global warming is going to cause it to be covered in water
has to be bribed to sign the Copenhagen accord.
"This is typically referred to as 'American Exceptionalism'"
I don't believe so. American Exceptionalism means that the United States
is exceptional or different from other countries.
The position of the Americans is therefore quite exceptional, and it may be
believed that no democratic people will ever be placed in a similar one.
Their strictly Puritanical origin, their exclusively commercial habits,
even the country they inhabit, which seems to divert their minds from the
pursuit of science, literature, and the arts, the proximity of Europe,
which allows them to neglect these pursuits without relapsing into
barbarism, a thousand special causes, of which I have only been able to
point out the most important, have singularly concurred to fix the mind of
the American upon purely practical objects. His passions, his wants, his
education, and everything about him seem to unite in drawing the native of
the United States earthward; his religion alone bids him turn, from time to
time, a transient and distracted glance to heaven. Let us cease, then, to
view all democratic nations under the example of the American people.
- Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America)
Did you mean "Manifest Destiny"?
"Isn't that a core Republican Party value?"
Apparently, it's a core Democratic Party Value. Since a Democrat is in the
White House, I would imagine they are against it right now. When a
Republican is back in the White house, they will surely make it a priority.
Regardless, it's not something our Fathers wanted. "The great rule of
conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our
commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as
possible." - George Washington
"Is your point, therefore, that you disagree with American Exceptualism"
I agree in American Exceptualism. Not American meddling.
J
-
In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a
comfortable life, and they lost it all security, comfort, and freedom.
When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to
give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from
responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again -
Edward Gibbon
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Gruss Gott <grussgott@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gruss Gott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347119
On Feb 18, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy."
>
> I do believe you are missing the point completely. A country that
> complains that global warming is going to cause it to be covered in water
> has to be bribed to sign the Copenhagen accord.
That's called the prisoners dilemma amongst other things. I.e. people generally
"anchor" on what's good for them at the moment not long term. Why don't people
save for retirement? Why don't people see the dentist regularly, etc etc.
Is that new stuff to
you?
Author: Jerry Barnes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347126
"Is that new stuff to you?"
At this point I think you are intentionally missing the point.
The US shouldn't bribe the Meldeves to sign something that is supposedly in
its own interest. If the leaders of the Maldeves don't want to sign it, so
be it.
I'll go a step further. The US shouldn't be bribing anyone. When 40 cents
of every dollar the country spends is borrowed, we probably should be
saving every nickel we can.
Finally, what does it say about man made global warming when the US has to
bully and bribe countries into trying to stop it? Let me answer: that is
is merely another method of trying to exert control on countries and
people. That is, take away freedoms.
J
-
Protection of the environment has become the principal tool for attack
against the West and all it stands for. Protection of the environment may
be used as a pretext to adopt a series of measures designed to undermine
the industrial base of developed nations. It may also serve to introduce
malaise by lowering their standard of living and implanting communist
values. - Natalie Grant Wraga
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