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Coup in Maldives

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Coup in Maldives

Mohamed Nasheed was recently ousted as the President of Maldives in a coup Jerry Barnes 02/14/2012 11:14 AM
Is the point Gruss Gott 02/15/2012 11:27 AM
"A.) That Wikipedia isn't always accurate or" Jerry Barnes 02/16/2012 11:27 AM
The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy.  This is Gruss Gott 02/16/2012 07:53 PM
"The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy." Jerry Barnes 02/18/2012 02:47 PM
On Feb 18, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: Gruss Gott 02/19/2012 07:18 PM
"Is that new stuff to you?" Jerry Barnes 02/20/2012 09:22 AM

02/14/2012 11:14 AM
Author: Jerry Barnes Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#346745 Mohamed Nasheed was recently ousted as the President of Maldives in a coup led by the vice president.  While he was president, Nasheed appeared to be a vocal leader on the threat of climate change, especially to small island states. Interestingly enough, the concern over the dangers of climate change may have been a little disingenuous.  It seems that Maldives signed the Copenhagen Agreement in 2009 only after the US offered to pay them 50 millions dollars. This was discovered after a document dump by wikileaks.  More interesting is that the document dump revealed that the US was using state department officials to spy on the representatives from other countries in order to find leverage to force them to  sign the agreement.  They also resorted to flat out bullying to get a consensus. Interesting stuff. I found most of this info a Democracy Now.  I appreciate their model for existence.  From wiki: The program is funded entirely through contributions from listeners, viewers, and foundations and does not accept advertisers, corporate underwriting, or government funding If they would do away with funding from foundations, it would be a great source for news. http://www.democracynow.org/2012/2/7/headlines/maldives_president_resigns_amid_protests_police_mutiny Mohamed Nasheed, the president of the Maldives, has resigned after weeks of protests erupted into a police mutiny. In 2008, Nasheed became the first democratically elected leader of the Maldives. He gained international fame for his passionate warnings about the dangers of climate change to low-lying islands. His reputation was tarnished after the publication of a cable by WikiLeaks that suggested the Maldives signed on to the U.S.-backed Copenhagen climate accord in exchange for $50 million. http://rabble.ca/columnists/2010/12/wikileaks-reveals-us-dirty-business-climate-change-talks http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/251174 J - Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to produce citizens capable of dominating their government, as the education of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires? - Alan Keyes
02/15/2012 11:27 AM
Author: Gruss Gott Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#346896 Is the point A.) That Wikipedia isn't always accurate or B.) That politicians say things in exchange for money or C.) That the US tries to influence others to its policy views? Because none of that seems surprising unless I'm missing something ... On Feb 14, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/16/2012 11:27 AM
Author: Jerry Barnes Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347004 "A.) That Wikipedia isn't always accurate or" Did you mean wikileaks? "B.) That politicians say things in exchange for money or" That's a truism.  Some would have you believe that all members of one party do it and no members of the opposition do it, but they would be wrong. "C.) That the US tries to influence others to its policy views?" Another truism. "Because none of that seems surprising unless I'm missing something ..." Possibly. "Is the point ... " more concerned with the policy?  Yes. Specifically, the necessity of having to bribe or bully nations into accepting a policy that is supposedly a consensus and one that is trying to save the world. J - In other words, a democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it. - Alexis de Tocqueville
02/16/2012 07:53 PM
Author: Gruss Gott Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347032 The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy.  This is typically referred to as "American Exceptionalism" Isn't that a core Republican Party value?  An aggressive foreign policy that promotes American philosophy?  Wasn't that the entire justification for the invasion of Iraq?  "That the World is better off ( so says W) without Hussein"? Is your point, therefore, that you disagree with American Exceptualism (which includes bribing and bullying foreign countries to align them to US policy)? On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/18/2012 02:47 PM
Author: Jerry Barnes Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347092 "The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy." I do believe you are missing the point completely.  A country that complains that global warming is going to cause it to be covered in water has to be bribed to sign the Copenhagen accord. "This is typically referred to as 'American Exceptionalism'" I don't believe so.  American Exceptionalism means that the United States is exceptional or different from other countries. The position of the Americans is therefore quite exceptional, and it may be believed that no democratic people will ever be placed in a similar one. Their strictly Puritanical origin, their exclusively commercial habits, even the country they inhabit, which seems to divert their minds from the pursuit of science, literature, and the arts, the proximity of Europe, which allows them to neglect these pursuits without relapsing into barbarism, a thousand special causes, of which I have only been able to point out the most important, have singularly concurred to fix the mind of the American upon purely practical objects. His passions, his wants, his education, and everything about him seem to unite in drawing the native of the United States earthward; his religion alone bids him turn, from time to time, a transient and distracted glance to heaven. Let us cease, then, to view all democratic nations under the example of the American people. - Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America) Did you mean "Manifest Destiny"? "Isn't that a core Republican Party value?" Apparently, it's a core Democratic Party Value.  Since a Democrat is in the White House, I would imagine they are against it right now.  When a Republican is back in the White house, they will surely make it a priority. Regardless, it's not something our Fathers wanted.  "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is — in extending our commercial relations — to have with them as little political connection as possible." -  George Washington "Is your point, therefore, that you disagree with American Exceptualism" I agree in American Exceptualism.  Not American meddling. J - In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again - Edward Gibbon On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Gruss Gott <grussgott@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/19/2012 07:18 PM
Author: Gruss Gott Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347119 On Feb 18, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > > "The US bribes and bullies nations as a matter routine policy." > > I do believe you are missing the point completely.  A country that > complains that global warming is going to cause it to be covered in water > has to be bribed to sign the Copenhagen accord. That's called the prisoners dilemma amongst other things.  I.e.  people generally "anchor" on what's good for them at the moment not long term.  Why don't people save for retirement?  Why don't people see the dentist regularly, etc etc. Is that new stuff to you?
02/20/2012 09:22 AM
Author: Jerry Barnes Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34117#347126 "Is that new stuff to you?" At this point I think you are intentionally missing the point. The US shouldn't bribe the Meldeves to sign something that is supposedly in its own interest.  If the leaders of the Maldeves don't want to sign it, so be it. I'll go a step further.  The US shouldn't be bribing anyone.  When 40 cents of every dollar the country spends is borrowed, we probably should be saving every nickel we can. Finally, what does it say about man made global warming when the US has to bully and bribe countries into trying to stop it?  Let me answer:  that is is merely another method of trying to exert control on countries and people.  That is, take away freedoms. J - Protection of the environment has become the principal tool for attack against the West and all it stands for. Protection of the environment may be used as a pretext to adopt a series of measures designed to undermine the industrial base of developed nations. It may also serve to introduce malaise by lowering their standard of living and implanting communist values. - Natalie Grant Wraga
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