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Dr Ruth was a paramilitary sniper

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Dr. Ruth was a paramilitary sniper

Dr. Ruth also talks a little about her Orthodox Jewish parents. During Judah McAuley 02/27/2012 06:07 PM
A sex therapist who's hands on with big guns and still well versed Michael Dinowitz 02/27/2012 06:58 PM
Pity she belonged to a terrorist group. Haganah I can see, but a group that Larry C. Lyons 02/27/2012 07:08 PM
I'm really not familiar with the various groups that operated in the Judah McAuley 02/27/2012 07:24 PM
Haganah was formed in the 20's after the anti-Jewish riots in Palestine. Larry C. Lyons 02/27/2012 08:06 PM
The original post was inaccurate. She was part of the Hagana but NOT Michael Dinowitz 02/28/2012 03:57 AM
I would not use the term radical but I would use the term terrorist. Michael Dinowitz 02/28/2012 04:26 AM
So that makes it less of an atrocity Michael?  Seriously?  Eric Roberts 02/28/2012 04:54 AM
Deir Yassin - most of the people killed were civilians. According to Larry C. Lyons 02/28/2012 08:37 AM
Less of an atrocity? I disagree with the label of atrocity. We know Michael Dinowitz 02/28/2012 10:59 AM
Before I respond to the specific points you made, I'm going to have to Michael Dinowitz 02/28/2012 11:03 AM
No Deir Yassin was not an innocent town. The arab fighters did not Larry C. Lyons 02/28/2012 01:04 PM
The only part that I'm going to respond to is the bit about the Hotel Judah McAuley 02/28/2012 01:25 PM
The Hotel was taken over by the British and turned into a military headquarters. Sam 02/28/2012 01:37 PM
> The only part that I'm going to respond to is the bit about the Hotel Michael Dinowitz 02/28/2012 01:41 PM
> My first comment on the this thread was supposed to be a double Judah McAuley 02/28/2012 01:51 PM
The King David Hotel was used as a military headquarters and for Larry C. Lyons 02/28/2012 02:21 PM
BTW I think we all got the joke. Larry C. Lyons 02/28/2012 02:22 PM
My misunderstanding, then. I should do some more reading on this Judah McAuley 02/28/2012 02:26 PM
I had to take a course in modern middle east history for my breadth Larry C. Lyons 02/28/2012 02:35 PM

02/27/2012 06:07 PM
Author: Judah McAuley Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347515 Dr. Ruth also talks a little about her Orthodox Jewish parents. During World War II, Westheimer was sent from Frankfurt to a children's home in Switzerland after her father was rounded up by the Nazis; both her parents later died in the Holocaust. She was an only child. The war ended when she was 16. "I then went to Palestine, lived on a kibbutz, which is a collective farm," she explains, "and then worked in the underground movement as a sniper." (Dr. Ruth was a member of the Zionist paramilitary group the Irgun.) "So if you don't ask me good questions today, watch out," she teases interviewer Derek Blasberg. "I can still put five bullets in a little red circle." From the article: http://jezebel.com/5888692/exclusive-dr-ruth-is-a-trained-israeli-sniper-who-doesnt-like-to-treat-people-who-are-into-bondage Huh. Definitely something I did not know about Dr. Ruth. She's a fascinating individual and damn smart. I'd love to have a drink with her some time. Cheers, Judah
02/27/2012 06:58 PM
Author: Michael Dinowitz Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347523 A sex therapist who's hands on with big guns and still well versed with long weapons? Nothing new here. ;) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/27/2012 07:08 PM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347524 Pity she belonged to a terrorist group. Haganah I can see, but a group that used terrorism and bombings on civilians, peacekeeepers and other  Jewish defensive groups I find beyond the pale. At least it was not the Stern Gang. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/27/2012 07:24 PM
Author: Judah McAuley Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347525 I'm really not familiar with the various groups that operated in the area between the end of WWII and the declaration of statehood in 48. Judah ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/27/2012 08:06 PM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347531 Haganah was formed in the 20's after the anti-Jewish riots in Palestine. They were primarily defensive, protecting jewish settlements. After the war of independence in 1948 they became the IDF. The Irgun was a radical splinter group that left the Haganah in the early 30's. They fit more within the mold of a terrorist group using assassinations, kidnapping and bombings to try and achive independence. During 1944 the Haganah with the cooperation of the British went to war with the Irgun.  BTW there was an Arab batallion in the Haganah. The last group the Lehi or Stern Gang was even more radical than the Irgun. Even though the 3 groups reached a peace accord in 1945, during the war of independence the Irgun and Stern Gang were associated with a number of atrocities. The Haganah and Palmach were responsible for bringing the perpetrators to the Israeli courts after independence. Monachim Begen, a right wing Prime Minister of Israel was one of the leaders of the Irgun. Michael and Judith may have a different take on the history though. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 03:57 AM
Author: Michael Dinowitz Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347561 The original post was inaccurate. She was part of the Hagana but NOT part of the Irgun. > > Pity she belonged to a terrorist group. Haganah I can see, but a group that > used terrorism and bombings on civilians, peacekeeepers and other  Jewish > defensive groups I find beyond the pale. At least it was not the Stern Gang
02/28/2012 04:26 AM
Author: Michael Dinowitz Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347562 I would not use the term radical but I would use the term terrorist. The Irgun started as a retaliatory organization to instill terror in those who targeted Jews. The British were not protecting Jews in the area so the Irgun took an 'eye for an eye' approach. They did not initiate violence till later in their existence and that violence mainly targeted the British government that was in control of the area at the time. The term atrocity is a totally loaded one and its use is debatable in reference to the Irgun. The bombing of the King David Hotel (the center of British government control of the area) was accompanied by multiple warnings to which were ignored. The truth of Deir Yassin is so convoluted between scholarship of facts, of politics, of propaganda, and of 'alternate' views that it can barely be used in any clear conversation. I'm not going into the British double standards that helped breed the Irgun. Too similar to what is still happening. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 04:54 AM
Author: Eric Roberts Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347563 So that makes it less of an atrocity Michael?  Seriously?  An atrocity is an atrocity...just because they sent warnings doesn't mitigate the fact that they committed an atrocity.  They were terrorists...period.  You are right though...it is still going on...except now it is is the Israelis creating the environment to breed terrorists rather than the British. I would not use the term radical but I would use the term terrorist. The Irgun started as a retaliatory organization to instill terror in those who targeted Jews. The British were not protecting Jews in the area so the Irgun took an 'eye for an eye' approach. They did not initiate violence till later in their existence and that violence mainly targeted the British government that was in control of the area at the time. The term atrocity is a totally loaded one and its use is debatable in reference to the Irgun. The bombing of the King David Hotel (the center of British government control of the area) was accompanied by multiple warnings to which were ignored. The truth of Deir Yassin is so convoluted between scholarship of facts, of politics, of propaganda, and of 'alternate' views that it can barely be used in any clear conversation. I'm not going into the British double standards that helped breed the Irgun. Too similar to what is still happening. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- bullets in a little red circle." ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 08:37 AM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347571 Deir Yassin - most of the people killed were civilians. According to what I read, many were killed execution style. Assassination of 2 peace negotiators. The Lehi negotiated with the Nazis and attempted to ally with them. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 10:59 AM
Author: Michael Dinowitz Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347601 Less of an atrocity? I disagree with the label of atrocity. We know what real atrocities are. We know how to apply the label properly. They committed murder. They targeted the British military offices but they knew innocents would be effected. Even with trying to lower the numbers of innocents, they had to know that there was a high probability of hurting someone who was not part of the British military. It can be argued that targeting the military takes it out of the realm of terrorism but that's the Hamas and Hizballah arguments and we know that it's a false one. Wait, let me back up there. Any taking of an innocent life is an atrocity. The taking of any life is the destruction of the person and all of his descendants. But if atrocity can be applied to any death then we need a term to cover the wanton taking of multiple lives as is happening in Syria now. We need a term that covers the planned execution of civilians with no regard for anything past death. As for your assertion that its the Israelis are creating the environment, I see that you're disregarding the fact that Israel is still under physical attack by hostile Arabs inside and out, hostile media encouraging the attacks, hostile governments applying double standards to it, and threats to its very existence. But yes, it is Israel's fault for existing. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 11:03 AM
Author: Michael Dinowitz Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347605 Before I respond to the specific points you made, I'm going to have to do more research. I do know that it was not some innocent and peaceful village with no combatants, no history of attacks, and no reason for being attacked. I especially want to look up that accusation about the Lehi negotiating with the Nazis. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 01:04 PM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347621 No Deir Yassin was not an innocent town. The arab fighters did not evacuate the civilians. But the Lehi and Irgun as far as I can tell did go much too far. As for the contact with the Nazis, that happened in 1943-1944, Wikipedia (fwiw) has a fairly good summary on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_Germany ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 01:25 PM
Author: Judah McAuley Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347624 The only part that I'm going to respond to is the bit about the Hotel David bombing as I'm not familiar with the other intricacies you guys are talking about, but it was always my understanding that everyone has historically laughed at the post-bombing assertion that there were warning phoned in? I also don't think that it makes any difference, really. If you are blowing up a hotel, you are blowing up a hotel and it doesn't matter if you warned people you were going to do it or not. The hotel, as far as I'm aware, wasn't a military installation.  I admit that my knowledge of these events isn't in depth but even I know something of the Hotel David bombing and I'm pretty sure the historical consensus is that it was a flat out terrorist act. Also, Michael, you said that Dr. Ruth was actually part of a different group and that the article I mentioned is incorrect. Do you have a source for that? I'm really curious, I had no idea that Dr. Ruth was a sniper :) Cheers, Judah ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 01:37 PM
Author: Sam Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347625 The Hotel was taken over by the British and turned into a military headquarters. There were three warning calls made. One was ignored. How often does an attack on a military instillation come with a warning? . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 01:41 PM
Author: Michael Dinowitz Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347626 > The only part that I'm going to respond to is the bit about the Hotel > David bombing as I'm not familiar with the other intricacies you guys > are talking about, but it was always my understanding that everyone > has historically laughed at the post-bombing assertion that there were News to me as it's a fact in historical circles. > The hotel, as far as I'm aware, wasn't a military installation.  I Actually, it was the center of the British military rule of the area. In effect, it was the main military installation they had. > Also, Michael, you said that Dr. Ruth was actually part of a different > group and that the article I mentioned is incorrect. Do you have a > source for that? I'm really curious, I had no idea that Dr. Ruth was a > sniper :) Her bio has her as part of the Hagana but in no place does it place her in the Irgun. If she was, it would be stated somewhere. Inclusion in the Irgun would be a significant bio item. My first comment on the this thread was supposed to be a double entendre between guns and penises. I guess I have to work harder on that comedy thing. Now if she was a guy..
02/28/2012 01:51 PM
Author: Judah McAuley Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347627 > My first comment on the this thread was supposed to be a double > entendre between guns and penises. I guess I have to work harder on > that comedy thing. Now if she was a guy.. Oh, I got and appreciated the comedy, believe me. I'm just even more fascinated by the history, so I'm curious. Hmm..went and looked up Dr. Ruth on Wikipedia and they do say Hanagh, not Irgun, but they cite Snopes for that claim but Snopes doesn't cite their reference. Now I'm really curious. Judah
02/28/2012 02:21 PM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347628 The King David Hotel was used as a military headquarters and for housing military personnel. In a way it was a legit target if the Lehi was a legit resistance organization. But the group also had a bombing campaign in London that targeted officials involved with the independence negotiations and administration of mandate territories. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 02:22 PM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347629 BTW I think we all got the joke. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 02:26 PM
Author: Judah McAuley Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347630 My misunderstanding, then. I should do some more reading on this particular time/place at some point. Cheers, Judah ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
02/28/2012 02:35 PM
Author: Larry C. Lyons Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/thread.cfm/threadid:34157#347631 I had to take a course in modern middle east history for my breadth requirement in college. Funny how some things never leave you. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
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