New law mandates black boxes in all cars by 2015

New law mandates black boxes in all cars by 2015 (CBS News) A recently passed bill will require all cars to come equipped with "black boxes" that record vehicle data. These Event Data Recorders (EDR), similar to their airplane counterparts, will record data such as speed, brake force and electrical systems monitoring. The days of a car crash being one driver's word against another look to be history. Senate Bill 1813 (known as Map-21) mandates that automakers install EDRs in all new vehicles starting in 2015. The bill was recently passed and is expected to be approved by the House. The National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration has been studying and mulling over EDRs in vehicles for several years, but has stopped short of requiring manufacturers to implement them, CNET reports. However, many auto manufacturers already use these devices to help engineers and mechanics perform diagnostics tests and identify malfunctioning parts. Black boxes like these were instrumental in clearing Toyota of responsibility for the "unintended acceleration" accidents of 2009. They are also used in assistance systems such as GM's OnStar to alert emergency response services in the event of a crash. MAP-21 will standardize which events the black boxes can record and require their installation in all vehicles sold in 2015 and beyond. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505164_162-57418063-10391734/new-law-mandates-black-boxes-in-all-cars-by-2015/ Don't worry, State and Federal governments surely won't do anything with these boxes.  I can't imagine cash strapped states pulling the box during inspection, cross checking speed with speed limit and gps data, and then writing tickets for any violations. It's not like anyone would put cameras on buses and use the camera's to find violations so tickets could be issued, or would they (google bus mounted camera San Francisco)? J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

> Don't worry, State and Federal governments surely won't do anything with > these boxes.  I can't imagine cash strapped states pulling the box during > inspection, cross checking speed with speed limit and gps data, and then > writing tickets for any violations. This sounds like it would fall under illegal search and seizure.  The authorities have no probably cause to suspect a crime has been committed, so they shouldn't be snooping to begin with.  Any evidence found should be inadmissible anyway.  At least, that's how it is *supposed* to work.  I don't know what kinds of wacky hoops lawyers will be able to jump through to make something stick.  I guess one way to do it would be to require mechanics or other people who have valid access to the data to report anything potentially illegal they come across to authorities, who then have cause to search (still only with a warrant). > > It's not like anyone would put cameras on buses and use the camera's to > find violations so tickets could be issued, or would they (google bus > mounted camera San Francisco)? I would think of this as a mobile stop light camera (and ignoring any arguments about the ethics of their use).  You are caught committing an alleged crime in public for all to see.  That is different than having your vehicle computer records searched for no good reason.  One is passive.  The other is active and intrusive.

I'm sure they will find away around warrants. On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 11:04 PM, PT <cftodd@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

An amendment to cispa allows information to be shared without a warrant if there is a risk of harm to any person. no I am not kidding. On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 8:24 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Makes me feel all warm and safe...... On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Dana <dana.tierney@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120426/14505718671/insanity-cispa-just-got-way-worse-then-passed-rushed-vote.shtml On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 8:36 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Bloody hell.  They better slow down before they get a lot of attention.   Are they behind on paying off their masters or something? On 4/26/2012 11:55 PM, Dana wrote: > > http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120426/14505718671/insanity-cispa-just-got-way-worse-then-passed-rushed-vote.shtml

Protection of individuals, protection of children. Wow, simply amazing. 4th amendment, what 4th amendment? Didn't their used to be sub-committees whose jobs it was to check all bills for constitutional aplicability? WTF happened to those? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

their = there gah. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I don't know what to say to you. I am pretty much speechless myself. I did answer a couple of people on Facebook this morning who were saying pshaw, it will all be ok. Indeed, either the Senate or the president can still prevent this from becoming law. But will they? -- it's an election year. All that has to happen is for it to get buried in the military payroll or or something.....I would not bet the farm on this getting blocked. Call your Senators, people. Seriously. One amusing protest I saw -- Mike Rogers (chairman of the House intelligence committee) is now an authority on Klout on the topics of fascism and censorship. I think we all know that Klout is bullshit, but it was good for a giggle, and could probably be extended to the other yes votes... On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:51 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

hey, it gets *better* -- according to this http://securitywatch.pcmag.com/security/297113-house-poised-to-debate-cispa-where-are-we-now prevention of theft is also in there. D On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:51 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

"If they thought I was about to commit a terrorist act, yes." Which raises the question, how would the government come to the thought that you were going to commit a terrorist act.  Wouldn't they have to be watching you? "Gov does lots of things when they target someone they think is gonna be naughty. " Sure.  And it appears that they think everyone is going to be naughty. "But yer talking about tracking everyone, all the time." Yes.  Yes I am. Read this quote and tell me what you think about this: Due process and judicial process are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process. - Eric Holder J - Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

> Read this quote and tell me what you think about this: > > Due process and judicial process are not one and the same, particularly > when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due > process, not judicial process. - Eric Holder Sounds like he's saying the Gov can deem you guilty using it's own idea of "due process", over and above the courts. Which is beyond scary.

"Sounds like he's saying the Gov can deem you guilty using it's own idea of 'due process', over and above the courts." It means the government can drone your ass or black bag you anytime it wants to, Constitution be damned.  At least according to Obama appointee Holder. Most of you know that the following is not my kind of website.  However, if Mother Jones gets the picture, it shouldn't be hard for others. When the US Government Can Kill You, Explained Speaking to students and faculty at Northwestern University law school, Attorney General Eric Holder laid out in greater detail than ever before the legal theory behind the administration's belief that it can kill American citizens suspected of terrorism without charge or trial. In the 5,000-word speech, the nation's top law enforcement official directly confronted critics who allege that the targeted killing of American citizens violates the Constitution. "'Due process' and 'judicial process' are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security." Holder said. "The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process." Who decides when an American citizen has had enough due process and the Hellfire missile fairy pays them a visit? Presumably the group of top national security officials?that, according to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, decides who is targetable and forwards its findings to the president, who gives final approval. There won't be any drone strikes in Denver anytime soon. But you might want to be careful when traveling abroad, because Holder made it clear that there are no geographical limits in the fight against Al Qaeda. "Neither Congress nor our federal courts has limited the geographic scope of our ability to use force to the current conflict in Afghanistan," Holder said. "We are at war with a stateless enemy, prone to shifting operations from country to country." http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/03/eric-holder-targeted-killing J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

GMoney, have you ever heard of Total Information Awareness, or Echelon? Have you looked into any of the more recent laws I have gone on and on about? Here's a small list to spend some time with should you feel like seeing what seems to be a very real pattern to soldify the hold of the police state, and do away with our constituional rights: National Defense Authorization Act for 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012 National Defense Resource Preparation Executive Order http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (which unlike the misleading name can and has been used domestically against Americans) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act The Patriot Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act- not yet law but getting there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_Intelligence_Sharing_and_Protection_Act Total Information Awareness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office Echelon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29 Also look into the new data center that the NSA is building in Utah. If you don't think this stuff is for real, you aren't paying attention. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

right. Tracking everyone all of the time is why they need the capacity in that data center. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Not sure why you are questioning me about this. All i inquired about was the government sending us automated speeding tickets. That's it. No comment on CISPA or any of this other stuff. Just speeding tickets. I guess I should know better than to even hint that the government might not be up to the worst possible kinds of nefarious acts...lest I be deemed "naive". ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

since I'm the one that made the leap... yes, it seems a bit of a reach, you're right. But so is having the Department of Homeland Security tackle the question of counterfeit handbags. And that's where we are now, is my point. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ok, seriously, does it matter if they are doing it out of malice or just the best of reasons? I know good people in government, they exist.  But I knew far more that were lazy or inept, GS, at every level is and had been broken. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

why's it gotta be black?! racist motherfuckers. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- Tony Weeg Sr. Web Applications Architect & Developer Navtrak, Inc. Smart Companies Drive Navtrak www.navtrakgps.com 800.787.2337

LOL...they have it out for you Tony LOL ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Echelon and Carnivore... GMoney, have you ever heard of Total Information Awareness, or Echelon? Have you looked into any of the more recent laws I have gone on and on about? Here's a small list to spend some time with should you feel like seeing what seems to be a very real pattern to soldify the hold of the police state, and do away with our constituional rights: National Defense Authorization Act for 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Y ear_2012 National Defense Resource Preparation Executive Order http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-nation al-defense-resources-preparedness Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (which unlike the misleading name can and has been used domestically against Americans) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act The Patriot Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act- not yet law but getting there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_Intelligence_Sharing_and_Protection_Act Total Information Awareness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office Echelon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29 Also look into the new data center that the NSA is building in Utah. If you don't think this stuff is for real, you aren't paying attention. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- others. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Holder said. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

"This sounds like it would fall under illegal search and seizure.  The authorities have no probably cause to suspect a crime has been committed, so they shouldn't be snooping to begin with." You don't believe that a reason cannot be found to review the records? Do a google search for "tax by the mile".  How about a check to make sure a car is staying within "green" boundaries? "Well Mr Smith, we were checking your carbon emissions and noticed that you were doing 56 in a 55 200 times last year."  That could never happen, right? "Any evidence found should be inadmissible anyway." Should?  Yeah. "I would think of this as a mobile stop light camera (and ignoring any arguments about the ethics of their use).  You are caught committing an alleged crime in public for all to see. " Going 65 in a 55 on an interstate is in the public and all other drivers on the highway see the action. "That is different than having your vehicle computer records searched for no good reason.  One is passive.  The other is active and intrusive." According to you.  What about bureaucrats who make the rules and want/need money to continue funding whatever programs are being funded?  Do you trust these bureaucrats to make the right decision? J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- So you think the government could or would store the speed AND current location AND current location posted speed limits for every driver of every car in the entire country, then cross check this data and issue tickets??? Seems beyond the capabilities of our electeds.

"So you think the government could or would store the speed AND current location AND current location posted speed limits for every driver of every car in the entire country, then cross check this data and issue tickets???" All it would take is a vector of three parts.  Location, time, and speed. My first GPS (which I still use and is over five years old) would beep at me when I went above the speed limit on a road so that data is already stored.  It's a simple cross reference to make. The question of "would" is much more difficult? I'll answer with a question:  Would the government tap your phone, spy on you with drones, put a warrentless tracer on your car in your driveway, or track your internet usage and save the data for years? J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

> I'll answer with a question:  Would the government tap your phone, spy on > you with drones, put a warrentless tracer on your car in your driveway, or > track your internet usage and save the data for years? > If they thought I was about to commit a terrorist act, yes. Gov does lots of things when they target someone they think is gonna be naughty. But yer talking about tracking everyone, all the time.

that appears to be the plan. Yes I am serious. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

okee dokee :) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

If you think that's funny you have not been paying attention ;) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Filtered on party registration like the IRS audits. . > > So you think the government could or would store the speed AND current > location AND current location posted speed limits for every driver of every > car in the entire country, then cross check this data and issue tickets??? > > Seems beyond the capabilities of our electeds.