The Zombie Apocolypse is starting

http://www.cbs19.tv/story/18638489/florida-man-eats-a-mans-face

yeah I saw that...my thought at the time was "gotta love Florida" :P On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > http://www.cbs19.tv/story/18638489/florida-man-eats-a-mans-face

Wow, so the guy is unarmed and nude but you kill him, while he's that close to his victim. Good job coppers, good job. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Tim...i don't know about you but if someone is gnawing on someone's face and he turns and growls at me...I would shoot him too...twice as a matter of fact ;-).  The big question still remains...why were they nude (Gay Zombie porn?) Wow, so the guy is unarmed and nude but you kill him, while he's that close to his victim. Good job coppers, good job. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

The officer likely had a tazer and should have followed normal escalation of force principles. Not to mention with how horribly trained most cops are with their firearms, he was placing the victim at risk. Police only score hits with roughly 15% of shots fired in the line of duty. As for the nudity, I can only imagine they were drugged out on something. On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I'm with Tim on this one. If you're so puny you can't take down a naked, unarmed man without using a firearm, you've got no business being a cop. > > Tim...i don't know about you but if someone is gnawing on someone's face and > he turns and growls at me...I would shoot him too...twice as a matter of > fact ;-).

Wouldn't it be horrible if the cop was influenced by Zombie movies? In that he thought " HOLY F***!!! What if this is some fucking Zombie shit!!" BLAM!! Oh my GOD he's still moving!?? BLAM!! We may be lucky he didn't shoot the victim as well, since we all know it spreads on contact , right? ;-) Just surmising...

Take down, how?  Grapple with him?  You would tackle a man who is strung out on who knows what that probably makes him "invincible" and also makes him think it is a good idea to eat faces?  He obviously has no problems with biting ... and biting, and biting.  Who is really going to stick their body parts into that mess? If I were the victim, I would tell the cop to fill him up. Chewing on someone's face is a seriously life threatening situation.  I would treat the attacker as if he were armed with a knife.  If you wield a fatal weapon, be prepared to be subjected to deadly force. I only feel sorry for the guy as far as what must have gone wrong in his life that got him to that point.  I am also sorry for any family he had.   I am not sorry he was shot to stop him from doing what he was doing. On 5/28/2012 11:38 PM, Maureen wrote: > > I'm with Tim on this one. If you're so puny you can't take down a > naked, unarmed man without using a firearm, you've got no business > being a cop.

> If I were the victim, I would tell the cop to fill him up. Which is why we have trained police officers deal with these situations and not freaked out victims. > Chewing on someone's face is a seriously life threatening situation.  I > would treat the attacker as if he were armed with a knife.  If you wield > a fatal weapon, be prepared to be subjected to deadly force. Every person has teeth, therefore by this logic, everyone who may use their teeth should be prepared to be shot with a gun. We generally also train police to take down people even wielding knives with less than deadly force. I sure as hell am glad you aren't a cop. > I only feel sorry for the guy as far as what must have gone wrong in his > life that got him to that point.  I am also sorry for any family he had. >  I am not sorry he was shot to stop him from doing what he was doing. As stated earlier in the thread, there are many options available to try and remove a threat far short of using your gun. Batons, tasers, bean bag rounds, etc. No one was saying that the police shouldn't have stepped in to help the victim. They were saying that the police, in this case, seem to have skipped over a bunch of less lethal options and gone right to using their guns. Generally considered a mark of poor training. J

On 5/29/2012 7:39 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I doubt they covered this particular type of incident at cop school. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- That is not what I said at all.  So you can apply logic to a nonexistent point as much as you want.  Doing so changes nothing.   We generally > also train police to take down people even wielding knives with less > than deadly force. BS.  We know that if a person with a knife gets within 20 feet of an officer who has their handgun holstered, the attacker can be on the officer and cause a fatal wound before the officer can draw their weapon to fire .. even if the attacker announces their intention before they begin. Sure, everyone has teeth.  Many people have knives too.  The problem comes when you start using them as deadly weapons.  If you do, you shouldn't be surprised that someone uses deadly force in return.  I don't expect the police to bust in my kitchen and shoot me because I am slicing a tomato, but I would expect them to shoot my ass if I were holding that knife to someone's throat.  Do you really think they should try batons or tasers in such an situation? I have seen tasers fail.  I have seen people not jacked up on drugs walk off a bean bag hit.  Unfortunately, the only sure thing available was probably the pistol.  what do you do?  You can choose a less than lethal device which is not guaranteed to have the desired effect and maybe waste time or put the officer in immediate danger, or go with with the almost 100% sure bet and shoot the attacker and probably save the victim. You can stand there with your taser trying to put down a guy who is batshit insane and is likely feeling no pain, and only end up pissing him off if you want.  The dude was actively endangering the other guy's life.  Each bite could have easily been fatal.  Deadly force was acceptable. > I sure as hell am glad you aren't a cop. So am I.  They have to make too many life and death decisions quickly. This situation did not have a perfect outcome, but the officer lived and the victim lived (so far), so it is acceptable considering the circumstances. > As stated earlier in the thread, there are many options available to > try and remove a threat far short of using your gun. Batons, tasers, > bean bag rounds, etc. No one was saying that the police shouldn't have > stepped in to help the victim. They were saying that the police, in > this case, seem to have skipped over a bunch of less lethal options > and gone right to using their guns. Generally considered a mark of > poor training. Or a sign that they had fewer options than you seem to think they had. > > J

I don't see that this situation could or should have ended any different Dude was EATING another living guy's face. Read the above sentence again. You don't return to the peaceful fold of humanity after that. Killing you is the right thing to do for _everyone's_ sake, including yours.  Who could possibly want to live with that?

We free murderers and child molesters every day. This was an assault when you boil it down, or is it battery, the difference always eluded me. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Jerry Milo Johnson <jmiloj@gmail.com>wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

No, this was a guy eating another guy's face. I don't feel any sympathy or empathy with this freak. Put him down hard, for good, for ever. He ain't right. And now he ain't. I don't think it often, or about many people, but good riddance. > > We free murderers and child molesters every day. > > This was an assault when you boil it down, or is it battery, the difference > always eluded me.

There was another incident today in San Antonio, where a mother decapitated her infant son and ate part of his brain and toes... On 5/29/2012 7:39 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I doubt they covered this particular type of incident at cop school. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- That is not what I said at all.  So you can apply logic to a nonexistent point as much as you want.  Doing so changes nothing.   We generally > also train police to take down people even wielding knives with less > than deadly force. BS.  We know that if a person with a knife gets within 20 feet of an officer who has their handgun holstered, the attacker can be on the officer and cause a fatal wound before the officer can draw their weapon to fire .. even if the attacker announces their intention before they begin. Sure, everyone has teeth.  Many people have knives too.  The problem comes when you start using them as deadly weapons.  If you do, you shouldn't be surprised that someone uses deadly force in return.  I don't expect the police to bust in my kitchen and shoot me because I am slicing a tomato, but I would expect them to shoot my ass if I were holding that knife to someone's throat.  Do you really think they should try batons or tasers in such an situation? I have seen tasers fail.  I have seen people not jacked up on drugs walk off a bean bag hit.  Unfortunately, the only sure thing available was probably the pistol.  what do you do?  You can choose a less than lethal device which is not guaranteed to have the desired effect and maybe waste time or put the officer in immediate danger, or go with with the almost 100% sure bet and shoot the attacker and probably save the victim. You can stand there with your taser trying to put down a guy who is batshit insane and is likely feeling no pain, and only end up pissing him off if you want.  The dude was actively endangering the other guy's life.  Each bite could have easily been fatal.  Deadly force was acceptable. > I sure as hell am glad you aren't a cop. So am I.  They have to make too many life and death decisions quickly. This situation did not have a perfect outcome, but the officer lived and the victim lived (so far), so it is acceptable considering the circumstances. > As stated earlier in the thread, there are many options available to > try and remove a threat far short of using your gun. Batons, tasers, > bean bag rounds, etc. No one was saying that the police shouldn't have > stepped in to help the victim. They were saying that the police, in > this case, seem to have skipped over a bunch of less lethal options > and gone right to using their guns. Generally considered a mark of > poor training. Or a sign that they had fewer options than you seem to think they had. > > J

God I hate the world some days. On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Weren't you an EMT? Please tell me how facial bites can kill you? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Word. I wonder how long the specific officer in question has been on the street and what the rest of his record looks like. Although it seems as though the citizens of Florida are satisfied with the result, so any inquiry will likely be cursory. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Man, I'm sure glad you aren't a cop. Ok, let's talk escalation of force.  I only now it from the Military side, not the LEO side, but we don't even jump straight to shoot unless it's obvious that the opponent is going to use lethal force.  Shout show shove shoot. Those were our principles..  That's as a combat unit.  As police I would have expected them to go through a more serious series of escalations, including but not limited to: Tazers Mace Baton Body Holds and joint manipulation Strikes and failing all else lethal force The face shouldn't kill you by being bitten.  Neck maybe, but even that would take quite a bit. All that being said, it doesn't matter.  This cop in my view overreacted, and it cost a man who might very well have been mentally ill his life. Outside of dust, which isn't all too popular these days; and meth which could have been a concern, I don't know of any drugs that would make someone act in this manner. At best this was an assault that ended in the death of the perpetrator.  If the victim had been the one to do the shooting I wouldn't think twice about it, I have higher standards for LEOs. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Here is an article that has the raw footage from a security cam: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/28/naked-attacker-was-chewing-man-miam i_n_1551108.html

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No one had a knife. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

my bad, this is why I should not multitask. I mean the biter, er, chewer, er assaillant. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

On 5/30/2012 2:24 AM, Dana wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Yup.  A doctor told me that human bites are pretty much the worst just 3 days ago. Get your teeth off me you damn, dirty human. FYI, mouse or rat bites are apparently not bad at all.  They can't transmit rabies to humans and are fairly clean as far as bites go. >> Also, didn't I read that the victim was missing a big part of his face >> including most of his nose? That's pretty extensive damage that has a good >> chance of getting infected. The quote I saw was: "The victim was taken to the hospital with missing flesh and sources say his face was not recognizable. " >> lot depends on details we don't know. Did he warn the guy with the knife? >> Was he ignoring him? He yelled at the biter and he was ignored, which is not surprising. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Me?  No. >>> Please tell me how facial bites can kill you? First things that comes to mind are blood loss and shock.  Also I don't think it would take much to get a good bite in on the neck or under the jaw line.  Crazy dude was biting chunks out of the victim's face.  I think he was probably biting hard enough to do the deed. In the long term, yes, infection is a big worry, but so are other complications.  That guy is going to have a rougher time of it if he is malnourished or suffering from other health problems (both likely).

> First things that comes to mind are blood loss and shock. Also I don't > think it would take much to get a good bite in on the neck or under the > jaw line. Crazy dude was biting chunks out of the victim's face. I think > he was probably biting hard enough to do the deed. Oh and add to this that if the victim were unconscious he could have choked to death on his own blood.  People have died in their sleep from nose bleeds.

> Oh and add to this that if the victim were unconscious he could have > choked to death on his own blood.  People have died in their sleep from > nose bleeds. > > I have a hard time blaming a cop who failed to follow the protocol on how the academy trained him to respond to a zombie attack.

I don't know if ignored is the right word...according to the article, zombie boy turned to the cop and growled... On 5/30/2012 2:24 AM, Dana wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Yup.  A doctor told me that human bites are pretty much the worst just 3 days ago. Get your teeth off me you damn, dirty human. FYI, mouse or rat bites are apparently not bad at all.  They can't transmit rabies to humans and are fairly clean as far as bites go. >> Also, didn't I read that the victim was missing a big part of his >> face including most of his nose? That's pretty extensive damage that >> has a good chance of getting infected. The quote I saw was: "The victim was taken to the hospital with missing flesh and sources say his face was not recognizable. " >> lot depends on details we don't know. Did he warn the guy with the knife? >> Was he ignoring him? He yelled at the biter and he was ignored, which is not surprising. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Me?  No. >>> Please tell me how facial bites can kill you? First things that comes to mind are blood loss and shock.  Also I don't think it would take much to get a good bite in on the neck or under the jaw line.  Crazy dude was biting chunks out of the victim's face.  I think he was probably biting hard enough to do the deed. In the long term, yes, infection is a big worry, but so are other complications.  That guy is going to have a rougher time of it if he is malnourished or suffering from other health problems (both likely).

Uh oh... From Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/29/wayne-carter-threw-intestines-at-officers-stabbed-self-new-jersey_n_1554126.html

Hey look dangerous look with a knife, and they didn't have to kill him. On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:43 AM, Erika L. Rich <elrich@ruwebby.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Sardonicism aside, they would have been shooting the, uh, victim, in the knife case, which kind of defeats the purpose.  They didn't have to shoot him.  They could have waited around until he was done if they wanted. They also called SWAT to handle him after the pepper spray did not work. Had he been stabbing someone else, I am sure the situation would have ended entirely differently. As for the shooting: - The attack had been going on for 18 minutes before the guy was shot. - His actions fit the profile of previous drug related incidents where the attacker was known to have "super human" strength, strip naked and attack people by biting. - There was an incident in March where a drug user was hit by a taxi, attacked first responders and was eventually subdued by 14 (14!) officers, who had to be treated for blood exposure or injuries. To quote a doc familiar with this stuff: ?It?s dangerous for the police ... they come in, they have to be restrained both chemically and physically." - The attacker managed to eat off 75% of the victim's face before he was shot, including his forehead down to the bone, both eyes and his entire nose.  He is in critical condition from these not-at-all serious injuries from a simple assault. - The officer shot the attacker only once at first, but it had no apparent effect. There's one for all the "he could have shot him in the leg" types that always speak up. Read that again and tell me how effective a taser would be, or tell me how many people it would take to subdue you on a good day. The cop was by himself, he was watching someone probably being killed in front of him, he was likely familiar with these drug related assaults and knew he couldn't physically handle it by himself, so he exercised the only effective option available to him. The cop escalated his level of force just fine.  He just mentally crossed of the options he suspected would not be effective before deciding on one he knew eventually would be. I would not have had the restraint to fire only once.  I would not have had the nerves to actually hit the guy, regardless. On 5/31/2012 12:50 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > Hey look dangerous look with a knife, and they didn't have to kill hi

The role of "Bath Salts" in the apparent Zombie killings. http://gossiponthis.com/2012/05/31/bath-salts-caused-miami-man-strip-naked-eat-another-man-face-off/ The article notes that police say it takes groups of them to subdue people high on bath salts.

And another one... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/alexander-kinyua-kujoe-agyei-kodie- ate-brain-heart-roommate-maryland_n_1560149.html The role of "Bath Salts" in the apparent Zombie killings. http://gossiponthis.com/2012/05/31/bath-salts-caused-miami-man-strip-naked-e at-another-man-face-off/ The article notes that police say it takes groups of them to subdue people high on bath salts.

Maryland in the ZZZOMG HOUSE! ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/01/cdc-denies-rumors-of-zombie-apocalypse / Maryland in the ZZZOMG HOUSE! ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----