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Chick-fil-A southern bully par excellence

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Chick-fil-A is trying to shut down a small Vermont business owner who
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07/25/12 03:10 P
Mayor Menino of Boston's letter:
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07/25/12 03:19 P
Freedom of speech be damned if I don't like what your saying?
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07/25/12 03:31 P
Sounds more like you reap what you sow...
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07/25/12 03:41 P
I would concur. While one is free to believe and preach whatever hate they
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07/25/12 04:03 P
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Eric Roberts <
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07/25/12 04:31 P
> So that's the official stand of the business. But the owner itself, and his
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07/25/12 05:28 P
It didn't take long to come to this agree with me or else attitude.
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07/25/12 10:36 P
How is that 'agree with me or else'?
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07/26/12 07:39 A
This is called "progress", and I think it's great.
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07/26/12 08:39 A
How about his? In another 20 years, heterosexuals will be ostracized
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07/26/12 09:23 A
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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07/26/12 09:26 A
No according to this bit of research (duplicated at least 5 times
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07/26/12 10:21 A
If you don't agree you're labeled a total homophobic asshole.
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07/26/12 09:20 A
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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07/26/12 09:24 A
I think they did more than just "not support gay marriage". The statements
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07/26/12 09:39 A
*They don't make wings. Mostly chicken sandwiches & nuggets. :D
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07/26/12 09:44 A
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:23 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote:
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07/26/12 10:05 A
Civil union rights? You have to be joking. Current Federal law denies
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07/26/12 10:30 A
I can't understand that paragragh.
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07/26/12 10:43 A
Not to mention the families that are being split up because, even though
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07/26/12 03:05 P
" Rights? They have rights under civil unions. I'm under the impression, by
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07/26/12 02:41 P
2.5 million people got married in NY last year, 9,000 were same sex couples.
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07/26/12 03:36 P
And that proves what?
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07/26/12 04:09 P
No one knows how many same sex marriages have been performed in New
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07/26/12 04:21 P
Looks like I mixed local and national stats.
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07/26/12 05:10 P
From June 2003 (date of the first legal same-sex marriages in Ontario)
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07/26/12 04:22 P
Yeah, I'm saying it's a wedge issue. Not that that invalidates it,
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07/26/12 04:47 P
Apparently Aug 1 is "free water at Chic-Fil-A day".
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07/26/12 04:52 P
When someone says they support traditional biblical marriage, does
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07/26/12 10:24 A
My neighbor married her brother-in-law when her husband died in the
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07/26/12 10:40 A
Good point. Gossip is also listed as among those things prohibited.
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07/26/12 03:04 P
That clip right there is the embodiment of why I loved that show.
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07/26/12 03:23 P
Way to deflect. Where are you going with that?
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07/26/12 03:40 P
His beliefs dictate that some people are treated differently based
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07/26/12 09:27 A
Its interesting that the Bible contains six admonishments to
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07/26/12 10:27 A
Homophobia is definitely associated with hidden homosexuality.
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07/26/12 10:22 A
But these people aren't Homophobes. You're labeling them as such
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07/26/12 10:38 A
If you agree with and support a company that sends millions of dollars a
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07/26/12 03:01 P
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Eric Roberts <
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07/26/12 03:17 P
Works for me. If your company supports hate, then I don't want to lend my
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07/26/12 03:55 P
Never consulted with a Christian, eh?
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07/26/12 04:17 P
Not one that made it part of their business or the focus of their business.
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07/26/12 05:09 P
So this Chil Fil A guy is to be castrated for mixing his anti-gay agenda
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07/26/12 05:19 P
Except it's not anti-Christian...just anti-fundy. If you use you company to
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07/26/12 05:32 P
I've turned down work from Equifax, Fox News and Yahoo. Does that
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07/26/12 08:04 P
When a Mayor tells a business it is not welcome because of the
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07/25/12 04:35 P
The mayor represents the people...and the people of Boston have spoken
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07/25/12 04:59 P
Wow slavery? Really?
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07/25/12 05:04 P
Yeah...it's called a rhetorical question...though slavery has been in the
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07/25/12 05:38 P
You're comparing the definition of a word to enslaving people.
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07/25/12 10:42 P
Would you feel it was 'hate speech' if a conservative politician told
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07/25/12 05:36 P
According to the Chicago Tribune, they are no longer welcome in Chicago
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07/25/12 07:07 P
That's beautiful, you guys must be so proud.
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07/25/12 10:43 P
> That's beautiful, you guys must be so proud.
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07/25/12 10:58 P
What happened to you? You used to be reasonable. Suddenly I can't tell
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07/25/12 10:40 P
Sam's definition of reasonable.
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07/26/12 10:16 A
Sam,
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07/26/12 10:05 A
Gel said: 3 million US$ to Christian groups who were against
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07/26/12 10:13 A
As usual twisting everything.
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07/26/12 10:32 A
You didn't provide a link so I guessed. Same thing, promoting
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07/26/12 10:44 A
More on the donations. Last year it was just under 2 million. This
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07/26/12 10:14 A
I can't find anything about these being hate groups expect all the
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07/26/12 10:36 A
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com>wrote:
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07/26/12 04:39 P
They may have, but Exodus International is fraudulent, the Marriage &
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07/26/12 05:34 P
It wasn't the people that labeled the groups as hate groups...it was the
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07/26/12 02:42 P
Yeah but the SPLC is basically a hate group, anyone that doesn't agree with
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07/26/12 02:45 P
Shark Jumping again.
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07/26/12 03:02 P
Why don't you explain why they're hate groups. I couldn't find
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07/26/12 03:39 P
Maybe it's because they really are hate groups?
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07/26/12 03:09 P
Oath Keepers and the other patriot/political groups I am a member of are
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07/26/12 03:27 P
Given what I've seen of some of the literature that the Oath Keepers
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07/26/12 03:29 P
Larry, what in that article do you see that would justify labeling the
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07/26/12 03:50 P
Ok, partial answer to my own question. I looked up Oath Keepers on the
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07/26/12 04:01 P
So, in other words, it doesn't list them as a hate group...it lists them as
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07/26/12 04:14 P
It puts us in a group with some pretty nutty people. That isn't our
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07/27/12 12:14 P
Well...you are a little nutty...but we love ya anyway Tim ;-)
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07/27/12 04:12 P
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/splc-report-return-of-the-militias
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07/26/12 04:19 P
Like I said, Patriot groups aren't necessarily Hate groups (as the
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07/26/12 04:24 P
That looks like hate speech. Do you contribute to them?
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07/26/12 04:59 P
Personally,
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07/26/12 05:50 P
Agreed, but when local government tries to shut you down the game changes.
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07/26/12 07:48 P
Why not...city governments pressure people to rent to companies and do other
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07/26/12 08:47 P
More on this Chik-a-Fil stuff. Never a dull week with news from the US ^_^
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07/27/12 11:41 A
Not sure if this went by on this list. Passed on by a coworker.
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07/27/12 11:43 A
What's even better is that after Henson studios announced that they
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07/27/12 12:11 P
I saw a sign online saying they were defective...I can't vouch for its
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07/27/12 04:11 P
I think this frames the article incorrectly... " Do we really want a country
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07/27/12 04:07 P
Will you stop buying gasoline because the owners of OPEC put
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07/27/12 04:22 P
I don't have a choice with oil.
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07/27/12 05:27 P
On a bright note...
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07/27/12 05:38 P
"Will you stop buying gasoline because the owners of OPEC put homosexuals
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07/27/12 11:12 P
Editorial from the Boston Globe
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07/28/12 12:32 P
They have denied employment to gay folk.
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07/30/12 08:54 A
I just bought a headlight bulb from O'Reilly, but otherwise, I haven't
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07/30/12 01:02 A
With the exception of Radio Shack, Lowe's, and Bed Bath & Beyond, I don't do
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07/30/12 08:59 A
"I'm a Christian, and so although I try not to have my religious
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07/30/12 09:24 A
He also said that his beliefs didn't get in the way of the fact that he
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07/30/12 09:55 A
Dan Cathy pretty much said the same thing.
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07/30/12 10:12 A
Except Dan Cathy sends lots of money to anti-gay groups and has a history of
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07/30/12 06:33 P
I keep asking you fools to back that up but you can't so you just
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07/30/12 09:24 P
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Eric Roberts <
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07/31/12 08:36 A
so, ive been kinda lost on what this dude
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07/30/12 10:09 A
While on the The Ken Coleman Show:
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07/30/12 10:18 A
roger.
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07/30/12 10:24 A
> roger.
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07/30/12 10:29 A
yeah, cuckoooooo.
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07/30/12 10:36 A
When your faith contradicts basic human decency, it's time to reexamine
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07/30/12 10:59 A
Nobody said to deny them love.
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07/30/12 11:20 A
Rights....deny them rights. Or equality of word. Or...whatever you want to
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07/30/12 11:31 A
Because people are haters. Not the ones that think of traditional
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07/30/12 11:53 A
> Because people are haters. Not the ones that think of traditional
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07/30/12 12:01 P
The height of stupidity and ignorance is to ridicule others peoples
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07/30/12 12:13 P
You condemn yourself then.
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07/30/12 12:17 P
> The height of stupidity and ignorance is to ridicule others peoples
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07/30/12 12:33 P
You call someone a hater and a fool because they have a different
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07/30/12 12:37 P
> You call someone a hater and a fool because they have a different
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07/30/12 12:47 P
No bias.
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07/30/12 12:54 P
> No bias.
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07/30/12 01:12 P
somin like that
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07/30/12 01:18 P
A reserved word ya know?
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07/30/12 01:18 P
If it is reserved, then Christians can't use it. Pagans were using it long
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07/30/12 06:43 P
And separate but equal worked so well for black folk, didn't it?
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07/30/12 06:42 P
that is exactly what Cathy has said, and if you read the mission
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07/30/12 09:35 P
Prove it already. Give me some content.
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07/30/12 09:49 P
No Sam...sometimes wrong is just wrong. Just because it is an opinion
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07/30/12 06:42 P
I am being even more traditional...pagans allowed anyone to get married
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07/30/12 06:39 P
Not looking anything up before you spew I see.
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07/30/12 09:37 P
That is a fact. There were pagan faiths long before Judaism was around.
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07/30/12 10:11 P
Remember we were talking about marriage, not history in general?
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07/31/12 10:48 A
The root of this whole issue is that the same word 'marriage' is used
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07/31/12 11:59 A
We've all agreed this is the best approach, but it's never going to happen.
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07/31/12 12:04 P
/When people talk about how same sex marriage will change heterosexual
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07/31/12 12:31 P
If you want to go for the religious ritual fine. But you should put in
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07/31/12 12:32 P
Which is exactly why there is opposition. The religious aspect is
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07/31/12 12:21 P
Sure that is about the most rational approach. As long as straights
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07/31/12 12:29 P
Not at all. It's more like telling a gay man he shouldn't call himself
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07/31/12 12:31 P
Your analogy makes no sense.
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07/31/12 12:41 P
The lease is called Civil Union. Same thing with a different name.
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07/31/12 12:46 P
Can they still call it "heat"? Or is that a threat to traditional "heat"?
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07/31/12 12:58 P
Depends? Will they use radial heat or forced air?
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07/31/12 01:02 P
They want to use the same heat as the hetero's next door....
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07/31/12 01:05 P
That's stealing. They need to supply their own heat
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07/31/12 01:07 P
As far as I know, the federal government does not recognize 'civil
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07/31/12 03:23 P
Filing 'married' will cost more in taxes.
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07/31/12 03:32 P
As I was eating my chicken biscuit from Chi-Fil-A this morning, I was
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08/01/12 08:04 P
And that's what I said before.
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08/01/12 11:20 P
" There may be a lot more extremists who hate homosexuals than we think, "
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08/01/12 11:23 P
"Perhaps another major food chain should come out with a statement
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08/02/12 12:48 P
Wrong. There is a corporate policy of supporting groups that are
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08/02/12 01:04 P
Why do you keep parroting moonbats but not backing any of it up?
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08/02/12 01:27 P
"We are also stretching the word 'belief' here a bit. I don't have any
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08/02/12 01:38 P
I have multiple times. I've presented links to Focus on teh Family's
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08/02/12 02:42 P
And quit with the insults. That is exactly what I was referring to
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08/02/12 02:43 P
Sorry, did the word "parroting" offend you? Or was it calling your
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08/02/12 03:33 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 05:33 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 01:12 P
When a company supports organizations that are strongly against same
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08/02/12 01:13 P
"One of those consequences: That it makes (some) people think that
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08/02/12 01:16 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 01:22 P
"Yes, he does. So does Chic-fil-A, obviously."
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08/02/12 01:40 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 01:45 P
"When a company supports organizations that are strongly against same sex
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08/02/12 01:19 P
I have. CFA makes its donations through their charitable arm Winshare.
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08/02/12 02:39 P
I don't get it.
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08/02/12 03:31 P
This is what I hate about both extremes.
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08/02/12 08:28 A
+1000 for truth
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08/02/12 09:17 A
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 09:39 A
The radical middle. Why do we have to have sides? The guy had an
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08/02/12 11:19 A
I passed a Chick Fil A at 8:30PM last night, and the line was
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08/02/12 08:53 A
I'm not sure he's proud, but I'm sure he's taking notes :)
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08/02/12 09:19 A
Is Christianity under attack?
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08/02/12 11:22 A
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 12:00 P
Well then attack away, they'll be fine.
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08/02/12 12:09 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 12:13 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:12 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 12:21 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 12:38 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:37 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 12:49 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 01:00 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:00 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 01:24 P
"These beliefs are harmful to our society."
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08/02/12 01:00 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 01:27 P
I'm still not getting this. Are you upset that the Church's form of
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08/02/12 01:34 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 02:22 P
So you're upset they practice their religion?
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08/02/12 03:18 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 03:38 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:38 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 03:41 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 03:49 P
In what way? If I were Christian I would be a sinner. Big deal, lots
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08/02/12 03:53 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 03:59 P
Free will baby.
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08/02/12 04:11 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 04:26 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 4:26 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 04:37 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 04:47 P
Actually they do. Remember all the politicians that were denied communion
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08/02/12 08:38 P
"States are debating whether to pass laws defining marriage as only between
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08/02/12 09:54 P
Laughing out loud at Focus on the Family. That's the best opponents can
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08/02/12 10:04 P
They and Exodus internation support "Pray Away the Gay" programs which are
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08/02/12 10:36 P
Since you are so against these people, and most Blacks are actually
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08/02/12 08:46 P
Isn't the instruction to "turn the other cheek"?
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08/02/12 08:13 P
Or people supporting free speech and or separation of church and state.
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08/02/12 11:21 A
Funny. The people who want to inject their own beliefs into the lives
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08/02/12 12:44 P
By "inject their own belief into the lives of everyone else", do you
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08/02/12 12:54 P
No..I meant the people who support 'traditional families' and want it
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08/02/12 05:25 P
The message sent yesterday was don't try to strong arm people you
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08/02/12 05:50 P
OK..lets pretend that was the message.
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08/02/12 05:57 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/02/12 08:43 P
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/04/12 08:49 A
I cannot help but wonder which Biblical tradition they support.
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08/02/12 07:45 P
"Can anyone give me a single example from the Bible of a two person
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08/02/12 10:10 P
That was a Threesome...Mary, Joseph, and God...
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08/02/12 10:37 P
Shouldn't that be Mary, Joseph and the Holy Ghost? Definitely not
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08/02/12 11:50 P
"Shouldn't that be Mary, Joseph and the Holy Ghost?"
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08/03/12 12:43 A
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote:
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08/03/12 04:46 P
dammit where's the like button on this thing ;)
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08/03/12 12:35 P
So you have no problems with corporations giving money to hate groups?
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08/02/12 10:54 A
"So you have no problems with corporations giving money to hate groups?"
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08/02/12 01:13 P
Beautifully said but lost on this crowd. The Reverend is obviously a hater.
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08/02/12 11:44 A
Under DOMA they don't even recognize common law mariages.
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08/02/12 10:53 A
It all goes back to "Separate but Equal" does not work. We tried that once
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07/31/12 01:33 P
All these cultures allowed for same sex marriage.
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07/31/12 12:27 P
But they didn't.
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07/31/12 12:33 P
Prove it Sam. I can provide data which supports my points. Show me
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08/02/12 10:52 A
You funny. I pointed out Ancient Greece because homosexuality was
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08/02/12 11:31 A
Slavery is also traditional. As it the idea of black inferiority
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07/30/12 12:12 P
Are you that disconnected with reality? BTW, that was Eric's argument.
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07/30/12 12:15 P
To quote
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07/30/12 12:18 P
You're so proud of what that makes you.
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07/30/12 12:25 P
Don't you hate overweight people, drug addicts and children born out
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07/30/12 09:23 P
You need to look up the agoge (Sparta) and the Athenian traditions of
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07/30/12 12:16 P
Of course they allowed and accepted homosexual relationships yet they
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07/30/12 12:20 P
you mean like the ceremony that Alexander the Great underwent with his
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07/30/12 09:33 P
You're grasping and coming up empty.
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07/30/12 09:48 P
Greek and Romans homophobic LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. You do realize that they
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07/30/12 06:38 P
You're quick as a whip.
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07/30/12 09:36 P
You can believe whatever you want. The issue is that things have gone
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07/30/12 12:10 P
Ah well then Rahm and a couple of other mayors said they would deny
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07/30/12 10:52 A
NOpe its fully within their rights.
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07/30/12 11:11 A
Your bizarre logic is based on someone stating they believe marriage
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07/30/12 11:27 A
It wasn't Rahm...not that I am defending the asshat. It was a Chicago
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07/30/12 06:35 P
It was Rahm and the Alderman.
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07/30/12 09:25 P
You mean aside from coming out against same sex marriage, or donating
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07/30/12 10:54 A
Remove the Christian and you're right. But that sort of hatred goes
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07/28/12 09:45 A
What literature specifically? I follow a bunch of oath keeper groups,
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07/26/12 04:26 P
Tim, we've talked skinhead groups before and you know that I've spent
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07/26/12 03:35 P
I didn't say we were nice or perfect. Yes, many are homophobes, which is
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07/27/12 12:12 P
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07/25/2012 03:10 PM

Chick-fil-A is trying to shut down a small Vermont business owner who makes "Eat More Kale" shirts, and sent him a "cease and desist" letter. Now he's fighting back!!  It's called "A Defiant Dude," and is absolutely worth 3 minutes of your time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8UHX8FRGY Just another of the many reasons to boycot Chick-fil-A

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07/25/2012 03:19 PM

Mayor Menino of Boston's letter: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422348_10151791883475752_1848650776_n.jpg ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/25/2012 03:31 PM

Freedom of speech be damned if I don't like what your saying? . > > Mayor Menino of Boston's letter: > http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422348_10151791883475752_1848650776_n.jpg

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07/25/2012 03:41 PM

Sounds more like you reap what you sow... On 7/25/2012 3:30 PM, Sam wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/25/2012 04:03 PM

I would concur.  While one is free to believe and preach whatever hate they want, they are not immune from the consequences of doing so.  It's why I never understood why any business would take a stand, as a business, on any political issue. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Sounds more like you reap what you sow... On 7/25/2012 3:30 PM, Sam wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422348_10151791883475752_18486507 76_n.jpg >> >> >

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07/25/2012 04:31 PM

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > I would concur.  While one is free to believe and preach whatever hate they > want, they are not immune from the consequences of doing so.  It's why I > never understood why any business would take a stand, as a business, on any > political issue. > OFFICIALLY, Chick-Fil-A the business has issued a decree saying they do not take a stand on this issue: "The Chick-Fil-A culture and service tradition in our restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect - regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender. We will continue this tradition in the over 1,600 restaurants run by independent Owner/Operators. Going forward, our intent is to leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena." So that's the official stand of the business. But the owner itself, and his children, are individuals with the freedom to say whatever they want. The public is free to diverge these sayings from the business itself, as i'm sure the Chick-Fil-A would wish, or to group them together, as many will do.

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07/25/2012 05:28 PM

> So that's the official stand of the business. But the owner itself, and his > children, are individuals with the freedom to say whatever they want. The > public is free to diverge these sayings from the business itself, as i'm > sure the Chick-Fil-A would wish, or to group them together, as many will > do. I think the main problem confounding Chic-fil-a at this point it that the founder and his children co-mingle and engrain their religious beliefs into the day to day operation of EVERY ASPECT OF THE COMPANY. The founder and his family's religious philosophy is very tightly wound up into the fabric of everything that the company does and stands for. They have prayers before corporate meetings, they are not open on Sunday, they are an oppressively religious company internally. They are based in Atlanta, I know people who have worked there. They are very very very religious and you will not get a job there unless you agree with their ideals or are willing to pretend that you do. I'm not talking about the franchises, I am sure they are operated in a variety of ways. I'm talking about HQ. Knowing this, and knowing how deep the religious convictions of the entire company go - they absolutely cannot divorce themselves from this issue simply because it's making them look like total homophobic assholes, which it is. They cannot be devout preachy Christians about everything but then sweep that one little thing that people seem to dislike under the rug. They made this bed, and now they are getting uncomfortable and trying to pretend they didn't. -Cameron ...

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07/25/2012 10:36 PM

It didn't take long to come to this agree with me or else attitude. . On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Camer > > simply because it's making them look like total homophobic assholes, which > it is. They cannot be devout preachy Christians about everything but then > sweep that one little thing that people seem to dislike under the rug.

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07/26/2012 07:39 AM

How is that 'agree with me or else'? The people who own Chik-Fil-A have every right to believe what they want. This does not mean that they are free from any consequences that result from those beliefs. Personally, I love Chik-Fil-A's food, however, I have made a choice not to support a company owned by people whose beliefs are, in my opinion, discriminatory. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 08:39 AM

This is called "progress", and I think it's great. In another 20 years, homophobes will be ostracized the way that homosexuals once were. Surely that's a good thing, aint it Sam? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 09:23 AM

How about his? In another 20 years, heterosexuals will be ostracized the way that homosexuals once were. Why are people labeled homophobes if they don't support gay marriage? As long as they support gay rights and civil unions they shouldn't be hated. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:39 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 09:26 AM

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I guess it depends on how you defined "homophobe". If you take it literally: "Homo" =  same, "phobe" = fear...then you get "fear of gay people". This would seem accurate as most who oppose gay marriage seem to FEAR what granting such a right would do to their definition of a "traditional" marriage. if you construe homophobia as "hate", then I would agree that applying this term to ALL who oppose gay marriage would not be accurate.

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07/26/2012 10:21 AM

No according to this bit of research (duplicated at least 5 times according to the literature) the homophobes will finally come out of the closet, as gays. While I do show the abstract below, in a nutshell homophobes showed the same sexual response as gays did when presented with gay porn. Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? Adams, Henry E.; Wright, Lester W.; Lohr, Bethany A. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, Vol 105(3), Aug 1996, 440-445. doi: 10.1037/0021-843X.105.3.440 Abstract The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men ( n?= 35 ) and a group of nonhomophobic men ( n?=?29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved) On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:39 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 09:20 AM

If you don't agree you're labeled a total homophobic asshole. What happened to respecting peoples opinions? Cathy said he supports the traditional biblical marriage. You folks need to come back to reality. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 09:24 AM

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > If you don't agree you're labeled a total homophobic asshole. > What happened to respecting peoples opinions? > Cathy said he supports the traditional biblical marriage. You folks > need to come back to reality. > I've never called you a homophobic asshole, nor have i used those words about Chic-fil-a or their owner. Saying you support "traditional biblical marriage", means you do not support the rights of homosexuals to get married. Correct? So i don't see where I'm divorced from reality. You have said in the past that you support the gay marriage (if i remember correctly), so I would think you would be happy that our society seems to be moving in that direction, and that those who do not support this are being moved to the fringe. is this not true?

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07/26/2012 09:39 AM

I think they did more than just "not support gay marriage". The statements by the company's leader are inflammatory to say the least. They also went further and donated around 3 million US$ to Christian groups who were against homosexuality and homosexuals in general, not just gay marriage. Their religious extremes form the entire foundation of their business and are projected through their capital donations and influence. The company cannot now argue about Government discrimination, and interference in business. They made a decision to openly state their discrimination against a particular group. If they were playing by corporate rules that statement would never have been made. No one needs to know what the personal beliefs of your CEO are, really. But when a company makes those personal beliefs the public face of the organisation, they have to accept the backlash. For all we know they sat and thought about this and felt that there was business to be made in bashing the gays. Who knows. Maybe they're selling out in the Mid West and can't make chicken wings fast enough.

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07/26/2012 09:44 AM

*They don't make wings. Mostly chicken sandwiches & nuggets. :D On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Vivec <gel214th@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:05 AM

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:23 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > I've never called you a homophobic asshole, nor have i used those words > about Chic-fil-a or their owner. Cameron used them to describe anyone that doesn't agree with him on same-sex marriage. > Saying you support "traditional biblical marriage", means you do not > support the rights of homosexuals to get married. Correct? Rights? They have rights under civil unions. I'm under the impression, by the low numbers, that most gays don't care about or want to get married, they just think if you don't support gay marriage it's because you hate gays. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I don't believe every one has to agree or be fringe. I think we need to get past the agree or you're a hater attitude. I agree they should be allowed to get married but I don't hate on the ones that have a different opinion. Unless of course they're against gay marriage because they do hate gays. .

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07/26/2012 10:30 AM

Civil union rights? You have to be joking. Current Federal law denies married, civil unionized and domestic partnershipped same-sex couples approximately 1,100 federal benefits currently reserved as special privileges to opposite-sex married couples. Even though their marriage may be recognized within a couple's state, the federal government considers them to be simply roommates; their children are regarded as illegitimate. Yes equal treatment before the law. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:43 AM

I can't understand that paragragh. What's wrong with illegitimate? Are you discriminating against them? . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:05 PM

Not to mention the families that are being split up because, even though they are legally married, since DOMA denies recognition of same sex couples, visas are being denied to couples where one of the spouses is a foreign national and is getting deported because of it.  In all of these cases, if it was a hetero couple, the visa would get renewed without question. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Civil union rights? You have to be joking. Current Federal law denies married, civil unionized and domestic partnershipped same-sex couples approximately 1,100 federal benefits currently reserved as special privileges to opposite-sex married couples. Even though their marriage may be recognized within a couple's state, the federal government considers them to be simply roommates; their children are regarded as illegitimate. Yes equal treatment before the law. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 02:41 PM

" Rights? They have rights under civil unions. I'm under the impression, by the low numbers, that most gays don't care about or want to get married, they just think if you don't support gay marriage it's because you hate gays." Yes, because separate but equal has workedso well in he past.. Most gays don't care or want to get married?  What planet are you emailing us from Sam...it certainly isn't Earth.  Do think this is just a bunch of straight people raising a bunch a shit in support of gay marriage or soemthing?  Seriously?   Hate is hate.  The same argumetns that are being made against gay marriage and other gay rights are the same ones used when it was anti-interracial marriage as hate of the day. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Want to always have my latest info? Want a signature like this? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:23 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > I've never called you a homophobic asshole, nor have i used those > words about Chic-fil-a or their owner. Cameron used them to describe anyone that doesn't agree with him on same-sex marriage. > Saying you support "traditional biblical marriage", means you do not > support the rights of homosexuals to get married. Correct? Rights? They have rights under civil unions. I'm under the impression, by the low numbers, that most gays don't care about or want to get married, they just think if you don't support gay marriage it's because you hate gays. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I don't believe every one has to agree or be fringe. I think we need to get past the agree or you're a hater attitude. I agree they should be allowed to get married but I don't hate on the ones that have a different opinion. Unless of course they're against gay marriage because they do hate gays. .

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07/26/2012 03:36 PM

2.5 million people got married in NY last year, 9,000 were same sex couples. The first year it was allowed in NY so the numbers will go way down. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Eric Roberts <owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:09 PM

And that proves what? Homosexuals are, what...somone said 10% of the population....so those numers are odd why?  How many waited to get married to see if there were any challenges to it?  Folk in CA dealt with that.  People got married right away when it was legalized just o have their marriages invalidated when prop 8 passed...  Besides...9,000 people is not a case of "hardly anyone cares or wants to get married..." Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 2.5 million people got married in NY last year, 9,000 were same sex couples. The first year it was allowed in NY so the numbers will go way down. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Eric Roberts <owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:21 PM

No one knows how many same sex marriages have been performed in New York as NY does not require applicants to identify themselves by gender. Also, the CDC says that there are 2 million marriages per year in the entire United States. If Sam's numbers are right, that means that more than half the people who get married every year in the United States do so in NY. Obviously, his stats are full of shit. Judah On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Eric Roberts <owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 05:10 PM

Looks like I mixed local and national stats. 75,000 in NY that puts the number at 10%. Much higher than I thought but still, it's the first year so everyone that's been waiting  just went. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Judah McAuley <judah@wiredotter.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:22 PM

From June 2003 (date of the first legal same-sex marriages in Ontario) to October 2006, there were 12,438 same-sex marriages contracted in Canada. Since 2006 the numbers have increased substantially. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Eric Roberts <owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:47 PM

Yeah, I'm saying it's a wedge issue. Not that that invalidates it, just that your over emotion panties-in-a-wad incident is hype. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Eric Roberts <owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:52 PM

Apparently Aug 1 is "free water at Chic-Fil-A day". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JprRWKQys7A Just letting everyone know.... -Cameron ...

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07/26/2012 10:24 AM

When someone says they support traditional biblical marriage, does that include marrying your sister-in-law because your brother died. Or taking slave wives. As part of the traditional biblical family does that mean you can beat your own kid to death without consequences? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:23 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:40 AM

My neighbor married her brother-in-law when her husband died in the trade center. Not for biblical reasons, they just fell in love during trying times. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > > When someone says they support traditional biblical marriage, does > that include marrying your sister-in-law because your brother died. Or > taking slave wives. > > As part of the traditional biblical family does that mean you can beat > your own kid to death without consequences?

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07/26/2012 03:04 PM

Good point.  Gossip is also listed as among those things prohibited. Loved the episode of the West Wing that featured exactly that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs And Chick-fil-a didn't have any problems violated the prohibition against lying regarding the Jim Henson company statement. Anyone with any opinion can find a a verse in the bible to support it. But it is the height of hypocrisy to do so and refuse to accept it when others do the same. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > > When someone says they support traditional biblical marriage, does > that include marrying your sister-in-law because your brother died. Or > taking slave wives. > > As part of the traditional biblical family does that mean you can beat > your own kid to death without consequences?

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07/26/2012 03:23 PM

That clip right there is the embodiment of why I loved that show. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Maureen <mamamaureen@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:40 PM

Way to deflect. Where are you going with that? . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Maureen <mamamaureen@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 09:27 AM

His beliefs dictate that some people are treated differently based purely on sexual orientation. Regardless of whether his beliefs are based in the Bible or a Bazooka comic, they are discriminatory. To me its no different than the KKK preaching about hatred towards minorities. I find it so funny that people use the Bible to defend their apparent homophobia, but I have yet to hear one of them call for the punishment the Bible talks about for homosexuality (death). On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:27 AM

Its interesting that the Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. You'd think He'd trust heterosexuals more. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:22 AM

Homophobia is definitely associated with hidden homosexuality. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:38 AM

But these people aren't Homophobes. You're labeling them as such . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > > Homophobia is definitely associated with hidden homosexuality.

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07/26/2012 03:01 PM

If you agree with and support a company that sends millions of dollars a year to hate groups like Family Research Council and Exodus International and supports dangerous therapies like the "pray away the gay" bullshit that has been directly linked to suicides, then yes...I would say you are a homophobic asshole.  When the constitution says that everyone has equal protection under the law, it meant everyone not just the ones some hate group disguised as a religion from the middle east thinks should be allowed that protection.  And yes...in most cases, Christianity is a hate group that preaches hate on a daily basis. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 If you don't agree you're labeled a total homophobic asshole. What happened to respecting peoples opinions? Cathy said he supports the traditional biblical marriage. You folks need to come back to reality. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:17 PM

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > And yes...in most cases, Christianity is a hate group that preaches hate > on a daily basis. This is awesome. You rebuke a business owner who has made unflattering comments about a group that comprises about 8 to 10% of the country. Then you go on to make an equally unflattering comment about a group that comprises about 75% of the country. And you do it from an email address that expressly advertises you as the owner of your company! If your gay, avoid Chick Fil A....if your Christian, might want to get your consulting from somewhere other than Three Ravens. Classic.

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07/26/2012 03:55 PM

Works for me.  If your company supports hate, then I don't want to lend my talents to your business anyway.  I have refused jobs and contracts based on that in the past and will do so in the future. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Want to always have my latest info? Want a signature like this? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > And yes...in most cases, Christianity is a hate group that preaches > hate on a daily basis. This is awesome. You rebuke a business owner who has made unflattering comments about a group that comprises about 8 to 10% of the country. Then you go on to make an equally unflattering comment about a group that comprises about 75% of the country. And you do it from an email address that expressly advertises you as the owner of your company! If your gay, avoid Chick Fil A....if your Christian, might want to get your consulting from somewhere other than Three Ravens. Classic.

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07/26/2012 04:17 PM

Never consulted with a Christian, eh? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 05:09 PM

Not one that made it part of their business or the focus of their business. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Never consulted with a Christian, eh? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 05:19 PM

So this Chil Fil A guy is to be castrated for mixing his anti-gay agenda with his company's operations.....but it's perfectly fine for you to mix your anti-Christian agenda with your company's operations. Got it. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 05:32 PM

Except it's not anti-Christian...just anti-fundy.  If you use you company to fund hate, then I will not be working for you. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 So this Chil Fil A guy is to be castrated for mixing his anti-gay agenda with his company's operations.....but it's perfectly fine for you to mix your anti-Christian agenda with your company's operations. Got it. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > Not one that made it part of their business or the focus of their business. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- country. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 08:04 PM

I've turned down work from Equifax, Fox News and Yahoo.  Does that make me an anti-stupidity bigot? </parody mode off> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:18 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > > So this Chil Fil A guy is to be castrated for mixing his anti-gay agenda > with his company's operations.....but it's perfectly fine for you to mix > your anti-Christian agenda with your company's operations.

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07/25/2012 04:35 PM

When a Mayor tells a business it is not welcome because of the personal opinion of the corporations owner than government has crossed the line. That's hate speech in my mind. . > > I would concur.  While one is free to believe and preach whatever hate they > want, they are not immune from the consequences of doing so.  It's why I > never understood why any business would take a stand, as a business, on any > political issue.

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07/25/2012 04:59 PM

The mayor represents the people...and the people of Boston have spoken loudly on the issue.  Would you want a business that supported slavery or human trafficking doing business in your community? Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 When a Mayor tells a business it is not welcome because of the personal opinion of the corporations owner than government has crossed the line. That's hate speech in my mind. . > > I would concur.  While one is free to believe and preach whatever hate > they want, they are not immune from the consequences of doing so.   > It's why I never understood why any business would take a stand, as a > business, on any political issue.

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07/25/2012 05:04 PM

Wow slavery? Really? . > > The mayor represents the people...and the people of Boston have spoken > loudly on the issue.  Would you want a business that supported slavery or > human trafficking doing business in your community?

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07/25/2012 05:38 PM

Yeah...it's called a rhetorical question...though slavery has been in the news lately in  the African country or Mauritania...so it's not as outlandish as you think.  What if a company that supported Slavery in Mauritania and sent money to slave traders or groups that help to protect them.  Would want a business that supp0orted that operating in your community? Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Wow slavery? Really? . > > The mayor represents the people...and the people of Boston have spoken > loudly on the issue.  Would you want a business that supported slavery > or human trafficking doing business in your community? > >

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07/25/2012 10:42 PM

You're comparing the definition of a word to enslaving people. . > > Yeah...it's called a rhetorical question...though slavery has been in the > news lately in  the African country or Mauritania...so it's not as > outlandish as you think.  What if a company that supported Slavery in > Mauritania and sent money to slave traders or groups that help to protect > them.  Would want a business that supp0orted that operating in your > community?

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07/25/2012 05:36 PM

Would you feel it was 'hate speech' if a conservative politician told a company that supports a woman's right to choose that their business was not welcome? Based on past experience, I feel safe in assuming you would support the mayor's stance. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/25/2012 07:07 PM

According to the Chicago Tribune, they are no longer welcome in Chicago either.  Chicago Aldermen are blocking plans by the company to build a second location in Chicago. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Would you feel it was 'hate speech' if a conservative politician told a company that supports a woman's right to choose that their business was not welcome? Based on past experience, I feel safe in assuming you would support the mayor's stance. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/25/2012 10:43 PM

That's beautiful, you guys must be so proud. Separation of church and state and all that. . > > According to the Chicago Tribune, they are no longer welcome in Chicago > either.  Chicago Aldermen are blocking plans by the company to build a > second location in Chicago.

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07/25/2012 10:58 PM

> That's beautiful, you guys must be so proud. > Separation of church and state and all that. > No, it's separation of stupid and forward... I wouldn't call State forward except in the case when dealing with church.

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07/25/2012 10:40 PM

What happened to you? You used to be reasonable. Suddenly I can't tell you from Larry. If you believe that about me, I'm very sorry to find out you have an extremely poor attention span or comprehension. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:16 AM

Sam's definition of reasonable. That I would pay a lot to see. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:05 AM

Sam, (I know I'm violating my own rule about not responding to you). In this case its very interesting how you manage to leave out a few vital pieces of information, the exclusion of which completely changes everything about this case. You did not mention that the corporation has donated over 2million last year to several groups that have been designated as hate groups. That's not personal opinion of the owner, that is corporate policy. Nice bit of lack of twisting the story Sam. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:13 AM

Gel said: 3 million US$ to Christian groups who were against homosexuality and homosexuals in general, not just gay marriage. and you said : You did not mention that the corporation has donated over 2million last year to several groups that have been designated as hate groups. By both definitions I'm guessing you consider the Church a hate group. So I'm seeing hate here but it's a different shade than what you're seeing. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:32 AM

As usual twisting everything. No I did not say the Church, I was specifically referring to the groups that have been identified as hate groups who received money from CFA. Try another lie, Sam that dog don't hunt. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:44 AM

You didn't provide a link so I guessed. Same thing, promoting Christianity is hate speech to you. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:14 AM

More on the donations. Last year it was just under 2 million. This money was funneled through WinShape, Chick-Fil-A's official charitable arm. According to Winshape's IRS report (see http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/581/581595471/581595471_201012_990PF.pdf) the following WinShape Gave Over $1.9 Million To Anti-Gay Groups. In 2010, WinShape donated $1,974,380 to a number of anti-gay groups: Marriage & Family Foundation: $1,188,380 Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000 National Christian Foundation: $247,500 New Mexico Christian Foundation: $54,000 Exodus International: $1,000 Family Research Council: $1,000 Georgia Family Council: $2,500 You all know my opinion of Exodus International - a truly fraudulent organization. While the FRC and related groups have been put on variou hate group watch lists. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 10:36 AM

I can't find anything about these being hate groups expect all the blogs linking back to a ThinkProgress article that calls them hate groups but no links. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:39 PM

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com>wrote: > > More on the donations. Last year it was just under 2 million. This > money was funneled through WinShape, Chick-Fil-A's official charitable > arm. WinShape's done some pretty great stuff too, actually. They operate foster homes all over, and have a huge scholarship program. Many of these foster homes are on-site at the College I graduated from, and there are two entire dorms there for the kids that CFA sends to school there. But the donations to certain other groups also somewhat remove their ability to legitimately say "hey this is what the founder thinks, not the company. It's what the company thinks. -Cameron ...

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07/26/2012 05:34 PM

They may have, but Exodus International is fraudulent, the Marriage & Family Foundation is strongly anti-gay, and the Family Research Council deserves its hate group status. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Camer ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 02:42 PM

It wasn't the people that labeled the groups as hate groups...it was the Southern Poverty Law Center that has labeled them as hate groups. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Sam, (I know I'm violating my own rule about not responding to you). In this case its very interesting how you manage to leave out a few vital pieces of information, the exclusion of which completely changes everything about this case. You did not mention that the corporation has donated over 2million last year to several groups that have been designated as hate groups. That's not personal opinion of the owner, that is corporate policy. Nice bit of lack of twisting the story Sam. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 02:45 PM

Yeah but the SPLC is basically a hate group, anyone that doesn't agree with their liberal agenda gets nailed by those guys.  I'm in at least 2 political groups that they classify as "hate groups". On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:02 PM

Shark Jumping again. To call one of the major civil rights organizations a hate group is just going too far. I have to ask Tim what political groups are those? Actually I don't want to know. I would like to continue to think better of you. But the SPLC has done far more for promoting civil rights and tracking hate groups than any other organization. Their rating scale for hate groups is used throughout the civil rights movements. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:44 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:39 PM

Why don't you explain why they're hate groups. I couldn't find anything but Think progress and they didn't say why. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:09 PM

Maybe it's because they really are hate groups? Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Yeah but the SPLC is basically a hate group, anyone that doesn't agree with their liberal agenda gets nailed by those guys.  I'm in at least 2 political groups that they classify as "hate groups". On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:27 PM

Oath Keepers and the other patriot/political groups I am a member of are not hate groups. They have also been one of the worst about lumping all skinheads together, even non and anti racist skins. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:29 PM

Given what I've seen of some of the literature that the Oath Keepers distribute, I can see the reasoning why however. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/winter/are-the-oath-keepers-really-patriots- On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:27 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:50 PM

Larry, what in that article do you see that would justify labeling the Oath Keepers as a hate group? They may be conspiracy-minded, sure, but that isn't the same thing as being a hate group. I disagree with them on monetary policy and think their central bank crap is pretty insane but as far as I can tell, the group is all about forming a group that could actively resist governmental takeover and/or collapse. Given that that has happened many times in human history, I don't see that as being entirely ridiculous. There are certainly plenty of Patriot groups that actively traffic in racial abuse and hatred, no doubt. But that doesn't mean that they all do. Judah On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > > Given what I've seen of some of the literature that the Oath Keepers > distribute, I can see the reasoning why however. > http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/winter/are-the-oath-keepers-really-patriots-

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07/26/2012 04:01 PM

Ok, partial answer to my own question. I looked up Oath Keepers on the SLPC page and they show up here: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/active-patriot-groups-in-the-united-states It is a listing of active "Patriot" groups in the US, about which they say: "Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the ?New World Order,? engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist." and then they proceed to list some 1200-odd groups. So Oath Keepers aren't actually listed as a Hate Group but rather a Patriot group, which I think is pretty true. I don't like all 1200 groups being lumped in together, however, as it loses all useful distinction and paints everyone with the same broad brush. Judah On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Judah McAuley <judah@wiredotter.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:14 PM

So, in other words, it doesn't list them as a hate group...it lists them as a Patriot group...in a list separate from hate groups... Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Ok, partial answer to my own question. I looked up Oath Keepers on the SLPC page and they show up here: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/ 2012/spring/active-patriot-groups-in-the-united-states It is a listing of active "Patriot" groups in the US, about which they say: "Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the "New World Order," engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist." and then they proceed to list some 1200-odd groups. So Oath Keepers aren't actually listed as a Hate Group but rather a Patriot group, which I think is pretty true. I don't like all 1200 groups being lumped in together, however, as it loses all useful distinction and paints everyone with the same broad brush. Judah On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Judah McAuley <judah@wiredotter.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/27/2012 12:14 PM

It puts us in a group with some pretty nutty people.  That isn't our purpose in the least. Also I love how the word "Patriot" has somehow come to have negative connotations in today's society.  WTF is wrong with us? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/27/2012 04:12 PM

Well...you are a little nutty...but we love ya anyway Tim ;-) Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 It puts us in a group with some pretty nutty people.  That isn't our purpose in the least. Also I love how the word "Patriot" has somehow come to have negative connotations in today's society.  WTF is wrong with us? On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- say: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- do. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:19 PM

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/splc-report-return-of-the-militias On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Judah McAuley <judah@wiredotter.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:24 PM

Like I said, Patriot groups aren't necessarily Hate groups (as the SPLC themselves state) and I'm still uncomfortable lumping 1200 groups together under one rather loaded term. Libertarian, Republican, Democratic, Socialist...all can be described as US Political Parties. But that doesn't do a very good job of describing either their similarities or their differences. Judah On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:59 PM

That looks like hate speech. Do you contribute to them? . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > > http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/splc-report-return-of-the-militias

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07/26/2012 05:50 PM

Personally, I think it's great to live in a country where the owner of Chic-Fil-A can state publicly that he is opposed to gay marriage. That those who don't like his opinion can choose to eat somewhere else. That those who don't care or support his opinion can continue to eat there. That Chic-Fil-A has to face the consequences of the statements by the owner, whether they be increased sales, lower sales, or no change. That elected official who take a stand either way will eventually have to face election. That there are some groups of homosexuals who are against gay marriage. What I find interesting is that gay marriage on the ballot has failed almost everywhere attempted.  It even failed in California in 2008 with Hussein bringing in leftist voters like crazy.  Those chastising the anti-gay marriage are clearly not in a majority and are probably mostly in the Democratic party.  Quite a contradiction:  being a Democrat yet not accepting a majority decision (but hey, what's new with that?). As for me and gay marriage:  I don't care. I did do a little reading on the issue in the gays against gay marriage sites.  They make some interesting points, which are not centered on saving traditional marriage.  They are more concerned with society trying to pigeon hole those with alternative sex lives into traditional roles promoted by marriage.  Some of them even think that the 40 billion dollar per year wedding industry is behind the push. - Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it - Adolf Hitler

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07/26/2012 07:48 PM

Agreed, but when local government tries to shut you down the game changes. http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1061148712 ?I can?t do that. That would be interference to his rights to go there,? Menino said, referring to company president Dan Cathy, who drew the mayor?s wrath by going public with his views against same-sex marriage. The mayor added: ?I make mistakes all the time. That?s a Menino-ism.? The Herald first reported last week that Menino warned ?it will be very difficult? for Chick-fil-A to obtain licenses for a restaurant in Boston? ?I sent (the landlord) a letter, but that?s all. There?s no pressure by me to allow this place to be rented,? he said. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 08:47 PM

Why not...city governments pressure people to rent to companies and do other things to facilitate companies in setting up shop...so if they can help, what's wrong with hindering if they (and their constituents agree) that the company is bad for their community.  Don't they do that all the time with bars or strip clubs?  Discrimination and hate is just as morally wrong as sex and drinking...even on Christian standards. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Agreed, but when local government tries to shut you down the game changes. http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1061148712 "I can't do that. That would be interference to his rights to go there," Menino said, referring to company president Dan Cathy, who drew the mayor's wrath by going public with his views against same-sex marriage. The mayor added: "I make mistakes all the time. That's a Menino-ism." The Herald first reported last week that Menino warned "it will be very difficult" for Chick-fil-A to obtain licenses for a restaurant in Boston. "I sent (the landlord) a letter, but that's all. There's no pressure by me to allow this place to be rented," he said. . On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- there. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- that?). ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/27/2012 11:41 AM

More on this Chik-a-Fil stuff. Never a dull week with news from the US ^_^ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/26/chick-fil-a-sandwiches-_n_1707511.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009 "The Cathy family has never hid its Southern Baptist faith. Since Dan Cathy's father, Truett, opened the first Chick-fil-A in 1967, the restaurants have been closed on Sundays, and the company refused to reconsider during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, sacrificing profits. It also boasts that the Chick-fil-A Bowl is the only college football bowl game with an invocation. Chick-fil-A posted more than $4.1 billion in sales last year, most of it below the Mason-Dixon Line. Just 14 of its restaurants are in the six states and the District of Columbia where gay marriage is legal. Massachusetts has just two locations, both more than 10 miles from Boston. Illinois, which does not have same-sex marriage, has around a dozen, though only one in Chicago. The company is well-positioned to come through the criticism relatively unscathed, even if it loses new markets in the North and elsewhere, University of Georgia marketing professor Sundar Bharadwaj said. He said that is because Chick-fil-A basically reflects the politics of its customers. At a downtown Atlanta Chick-fil-A on Thursday, customers were divided over the company's stance. "If you're a Christian, you believe in the Bible. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. (Cathy's) absolutely right," Marci Troutman said over her breakfast. Her business partner, Steve Timpson, said he chose not to eat at Chick-fil-A: "You've got to be more tolerant if you're going to operate in the wider market in this country." Nearby, Dustin Keller offered another view of Cathy: "It's his opinion. He's entitled to it. I'm just here to eat.""

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07/27/2012 11:43 AM

Not sure if this went by on this list. Passed on by a coworker. Some very good points. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/in-defense-of-eating-at-chick-fil-a/260139/

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07/27/2012 12:11 PM

What's even better is that after Henson studios announced that they are breaking off ties with CFA, including all toy design and production, CFA restaurants put up signs saying the toys were not available due to supply problems. Then there's the issue of the fake Facebook profile person that actively defended the company, its been found to be a CFA PR employee. Last I looked lying and deceit were not Christian values, but I guess I must be wrong based on the above. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/27/2012 04:11 PM

I saw a sign online saying they were defective...I can't vouch for its veracity... Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 What's even better is that after Henson studios announced that they are breaking off ties with CFA, including all toy design and production, CFA restaurants put up signs saying the toys were not available due to supply problems. Then there's the issue of the fake Facebook profile person that actively defended the company, its been found to be a CFA PR employee. Last I looked lying and deceit were not Christian values, but I guess I must be wrong based on the above. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/27/2012 04:07 PM

I think this frames the article incorrectly... " Do we really want a country where people won't do commerce with those who have beliefs different than their own?" It's not that we don't want to do business with people who have different beliefs, but more that we don't want to do business with people whose beliefs are utterly repugnant.  I have no problem doing business with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Liberal-moderate Chrsitians, etc...  It's when you push this Christian hate that I draw the line.  Discrimination and hate is still discrimination and hate when you hide it behind religion. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Not sure if this went by on this list. Passed on by a coworker. Some very good points. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/in-defense-of-eating-at- chick-fil-a/260139/

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07/27/2012 04:22 PM

Will you stop buying gasoline because the owners of OPEC put homosexuals to death? How about Rahm saying Chick-fil-A is not welcome and the very next day he welcomed Farrakan: "And the Christian right, with your blindness to that wicked state of Israel?can that be the holy land, and you have gay parades, and want to permit to have a gay parade in Jerusalem when no prophet ever sanctioned that behavior. HOW CAN THAT BE THE ISRAEL, how can that be Jerusalem with secular people running the holy land when it should be the holy people running the holy land. That land is gonna be cleansed with BLOOD!" - Louis Farrakhan, Saviours' Day, Chicago, Illinois, 2/26/06 . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/27/2012 05:27 PM

I don't have a choice with oil.   Chick-fil-a is a business, not an established religious organization...he cannot stop Farrakan.  There is nothing the alderman can do about chick-fil-a except make a lot of noise and make it difficult to get what they need to open up...basically making it more trouble than it is worth. Your ColdFusion Development Solution Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Want to always have my latest info? Want a signature like this? Will you stop buying gasoline because the owners of OPEC put homosexuals to death? How about Rahm saying Chick-fil-A is not welcome and the very next day he welcomed Farrakan: "And the Christian right, with your blindness to that wicked state of Israel.can that be the holy land, and you have gay parades, and want to permit to have a gay parade in Jerusalem when no prophet ever sanctioned that behavior. HOW CAN THAT BE THE ISRAEL, how can that be Jerusalem with secular people running the holy land when it should be the holy people running the holy land. That land is gonna be cleansed with BLOOD!" - Louis Farrakhan, Saviours' Day, Chicago, Illinois, 2/26/06 . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- you hide it behind religion.

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07/27/2012 05:38 PM

On a bright note... Amazon founder and CEO Jeff Bezos and his wife have pledged $2.5 million to a PAC defending Washington state's gay marriage law, which faces a referendum vote this fall. The major donation now makes up half of the group's funds. (from the Washington Post) Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Will you stop buying gasoline because the owners of OPEC put homosexuals to death? How about Rahm saying Chick-fil-A is not welcome and the very next day he welcomed Farrakan: "And the Christian right, with your blindness to that wicked state of Israel.can that be the holy land, and you have gay parades, and want to permit to have a gay parade in Jerusalem when no prophet ever sanctioned that behavior. HOW CAN THAT BE THE ISRAEL, how can that be Jerusalem with secular people running the holy land when it should be the holy people running the holy land. That land is gonna be cleansed with BLOOD!" - Louis Farrakhan, Saviours' Day, Chicago, Illinois, 2/26/06 . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- you hide it behind religion.

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07/27/2012 11:12 PM

"Will you stop buying gasoline because the owners of OPEC put homosexuals to death?" I doubt it. Here are some more companies and organizations to boycott if you so chose. 1.  Exxon Mobile 2.  Walmart 3.  Boy Scouts 4.  Salvation Army 5.  Harley Davidson 6.  Phillip Morris 7.  Dish Network 8.  Cable vision 9.  Radio Shack 10.  Advance Auto 11.  Bed Bath and Beyond 12.  Lowes 13.  O'Reilly's Automotive 14.  Dick's Sporting Goods 15.  Dillards 16.  Marathon Oil and so on and on and on The list can be found here: http://sites.hrc.org/documents/CorporateEqualityIndex_2012.pdf Oh, and one more for the list:  Sysco foods, which provides food for over 400K restaurants.  All of those restaurants restaurants should be boycotted. J - I never thought this day would happen. . . . I won?t have to work on putting gas in my car. I won?t have to work at paying my mortgage. You know. If I help him, he?s gonna help me. - Peggy Josep

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07/28/2012 12:32 PM

Editorial from the Boston Globe (7/25/2012)<http://articles.boston.com/2012-07-25/editorials/32831191_1_gay-marriage-business-license-freedom-trail>; But which part of the First Amendment does Menino not understand? A business owner?s political or religious beliefs should not be a test for the worthiness of his or her application for a business license. Chick-fil-A must follow all state and city laws. If the restaurant chain denied service to gay patrons or refused to hire gay employees, Menino?s outrage would be fitting. And the company should be held to its statement that it strives to ?treat every person with honor, dignity and respect ? regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation, or gender.? But beyond the fact that Chick-fil-A is closed on Sundays, the religious beliefs of the company?s top executive don?t appear to control its operations. Editorial from the Chicago Sun Times (7/25/2012)<http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/13994657-474/editorial-chick-fil-a-boss-has-right-to-his-opinion.html>; Ald. Joe Moreno wants to stop a fast-food chain, Chick-fil-A, from opening a restaurant in Chicago?s Logan Square neighborhood because he doesn?t like the company president?s opposition to gay marriage. Moreno ? and Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who?s thinking along the same lines ? should back off. Government has no business withholding zoning permits and licenses just because it objects to a businessman?s religious or political views. If the residents of Moreno?s 1st Ward are offended by those anti-gay views, they can choose to eat elsewhere. They might even organize a boycott. Chick-fil-A will get the message. Interesting.  It almost seems like these cities are discriminating against Chic-Fil-A because of the owner's religious views.  That couldn't be could it?  Lack of tolerance from the left? ** J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 08:54 AM

They have denied employment to gay folk. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Editorial from the Boston Globe (7/25/2012)<http://articles.boston.com/2012-07-25/editorials/32831191_1_gay- marriage-business-license-freedom-trail> But which part of the First Amendment does Menino not understand? A business owner's political or religious beliefs should not be a test for the worthiness of his or her application for a business license. Chick-fil-A must follow all state and city laws. If the restaurant chain denied service to gay patrons or refused to hire gay employees, Menino's outrage would be fitting. And the company should be held to its statement that it strives to "treat every person with honor, dignity and respect - regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation, or gender." But beyond the fact that Chick-fil-A is closed on Sundays, the religious beliefs of the company's top executive don't appear to control its operations. Editorial from the Chicago Sun Times (7/25/2012)<http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/13994657-474/editorial-chick-fi l-a-boss-has-right-to-his-opinion.html> Ald. Joe Moreno wants to stop a fast-food chain, Chick-fil-A, from opening a restaurant in Chicago's Logan Square neighborhood because he doesn't like the company president's opposition to gay marriage. Moreno - and Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who's thinking along the same lines - should back off. Government has no business withholding zoning permits and licenses just because it objects to a businessman's religious or political views. If the residents of Moreno's 1st Ward are offended by those anti-gay views, they can choose to eat elsewhere. They might even organize a boycott. Chick-fil-A will get the message. Interesting.  It almost seems like these cities are discriminating against Chic-Fil-A because of the owner's religious views.  That couldn't be could it?  Lack of tolerance from the left? ** J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- boycotted. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 01:02 AM

I just bought a headlight bulb from O'Reilly, but otherwise, I haven't done business with any of those companies in quite some time. I may have done some business with Exxon (I don't know what all their companies are) but beside that, I have never done business with most of those companies and of those remaining, nothing for at least a a year or two. Of course, that isn't because of their views on social policy. I didn't know the HRC list (thought I am an HRC donor). I just try and avoid multinational conglomerates. Judah ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 08:59 AM

With the exception of Radio Shack, Lowe's, and Bed Bath & Beyond, I don't do any business with these guys either.  Walmart has been on my boycott list for over a decade.  Until BSA changes it's homophobic tune, I won't have anything to do with them either. Your ColdFusion Development Solution Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Want to always have my latest info? Want a signature like this? I just bought a headlight bulb from O'Reilly, but otherwise, I haven't done business with any of those companies in quite some time. I may have done some business with Exxon (I don't know what all their companies are) but beside that, I have never done business with most of those companies and of those remaining, nothing for at least a a year or two. Of course, that isn't because of their views on social policy. I didn't know the HRC list (thought I am an HRC donor). I just try and avoid multinational conglomerates. Judah ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- boycotted. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:24 AM

"I'm a Christian, and so although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman," - Obama Did you vote in '08? . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:55 AM

He also said that his beliefs didn't get in the way of the fact that he supports gay marriage.  Obama realizes, unlike 90% of the republican party, that they govern a diverse country that has many different beliefs and varying beliefs even in the same faith.  He realizes that he has to represent homosexual citizens just as much as he represents heterosexual one.  Notice, he has always been supportive of gay rights from the beginning....hence the first part of the sentence.  That is one of the many reason why I voted for him....even though his faith says it's wrong, he knows he has to do things that don't necessarily align with his beliefs in order to properly govern this country. Your ColdFusion Development Solution Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Want to always have my latest info? Want a signature like this? "I'm a Christian, and so although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman," - Obama Did you vote in '08? . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 10:12 AM

Dan Cathy pretty much said the same thing. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 06:33 PM

Except Dan Cathy sends lots of money to anti-gay groups and has a history of discriminating against homosexuals in his restaurants. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Dan Cathy pretty much said the same thing. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- country. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:24 PM

I keep asking you fools to back that up but you can't so you just repeat the charge. . > > Except Dan Cathy sends lots of money to anti-gay groups and has a history of > discriminating against homosexuals in his restaurants.

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07/31/2012 08:36 AM

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > Except Dan Cathy sends lots of money to anti-gay groups and has a history > of > discriminating against homosexuals in his restaurants. > This is wrong. I have never heard nor read of one instance of Chick Fil A discriminating against homosexuals in their restaurants. Let's stick with the facts, please, unless you have some source for this charge.

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07/30/2012 10:09 AM

so, ive been kinda lost on what this dude from chik-fil-a said or has done? can someone give me cliff notes? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 10:18 AM

While on the The Ken Coleman Show: We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that ? We want to do anything we possibly can to strengthen families. We are very much committed to that," Cathy said. "I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,'" Cathy said. "I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about." So that was interpreted as him hating gays. . > > so, ive been kinda lost on what this dude > from chik-fil-a said or has done? > > can someone give me cliff notes?

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07/30/2012 10:24 AM

roger. Ok, well, we created marriage didn't we?  We didn't create pro-creation... We created the ties that bind. Well, whatev's it's all fast-food fattening shit, so who cares either way :) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 10:29 AM

> roger. > > Ok, well, we created marriage didn't we? > Oh no....no no no no....at least, not to a Christian. God created marriage, and we are "shaking our fist at him" if we dare extend his gift to everyone. Or...something like that.

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07/30/2012 10:36 AM

yeah, cuckoooooo. scary people. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 10:59 AM

When your faith contradicts basic human decency, it's time to reexamine your faith. If you are a Christian, read the texts of Jesus' life. Not what the pope says 2000 years later, or what your priest told you in sunday school....read what Jesus actually did and said. Do that, and then see if you can convince yourself that Jesus Christ would be in favor of denying the rights to marriage for ANY two people who truly loved each other. Try to imagine Jesus Christ saying: "Those two people are sinning by loving each other, and we should deny them certain rights because of it." Organized religion excels mostly at separating believers from the actual teachings of their God by obfuscating and confusing. The Christian churches have their believers so wrapped up in a few passages from the Bible, that they are completely ignoring the message that their God on Earth delivered.....love on another as I have loved you....turn the other cheek...let he who is without sin cast the first stone...love your neighbor.......these words of Jesus is all Christians should be focusing on in their religion.  The rest is human created mumbo jumbo that servesmore as social engineering than deistic endearing. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 11:20 AM

Nobody said to deny them love. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 11:31 AM

Rights....deny them rights. Or equality of word. Or...whatever you want to call it. "Marriage". Should be the same, across the board, gay or straight. You agree with this, so why are you playing devil's advocate? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 11:53 AM

Because people are haters. Not the ones that think of traditional marriage, you new age folk. Stop hating people for having a sense of tradition. It's your hating that makes me think your request is unreasonable. You would think that the Greek and Roman cultures would have agreed with you yet they  didn't.  Were they homophobic also? . > > Rights....deny them rights. Or equality of word. Or...whatever you want to > call it. > > "Marriage". Should be the same, across the board, gay or straight. > > You agree with this, so why are you playing devil's advocate?

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07/30/2012 12:01 PM

> Because people are haters. Not the ones that think of traditional > marriage, you new age folk. > Stop hating people for having a sense of tradition. It's your hating > that makes me think your request is unreasonable. > yes, I do hate the idea tradition should trump reason. That is the height of stupidity, of ignorance....i hate stupidity and ignorance. > You would think that the Greek and Roman cultures would have agreed > with you yet they  didn't.  Were they homophobic also? > Don't give a shit about greece and rome. Just care about ignorant Americans. Tradition. What the hell is that? that's the new buzz word for exclusion. Chick Fil A doesn't hate gays, they just support "traditional marriage". Tradition. Do we think homosexuals are purely a modern phenomenon? If marriage had been offered to all people in the 1920's, and society had not scorned anyone deemed gay, then the "traditional" definition of marriage would have included homosexuals for the last century. Tradition. Stupid. The idea that if you establish a bias early enough, and let enough years pass, then you can call this "tradition" and use it as an argument to continue your bias. I bet southerners supported the "traditional" definition of the American Negro...not this new fangled idea of them as "created equal". Here's a simple truth: Sometimes traditional is wrong.

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07/30/2012 12:13 PM

The height of stupidity and ignorance is to ridicule others peoples personal opinions. . >> > > yes, I do hate the idea tradition should trump reason. That is the height > of stupidity, of ignorance....i hate stupidity and ignorance.

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07/30/2012 12:17 PM

You condemn yourself then. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:33 PM

> The height of stupidity and ignorance is to ridicule others peoples > personal opinions. > Why should I sit around and be silent, or give tacit approval, to ignorance? Why?  Why should I be forced to "respect" opinions borne of ignorance? Devoid of reason? Failing in basic human decency? It is not ridicule to call a dumb idea, dumb. I may be arrogant, but I'm not stupid, and I'm not ignorant. Quit arguing against gay marriage based on tradition or poorly interpreted religious beliefs, and lets talk reason. Give me a reasonable argument. Give me a logical argument. Do this, and I'll gladly acquiesce.

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07/30/2012 12:37 PM

You call someone a hater and a fool because they have a different opinion. That's just selfish and wrong. Learn tolerance. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:47 PM

> You call someone a hater and a fool because they have a different > opinion. That's just selfish and wrong. Learn tolerance. > No can do. I will not tolerate opinions which promote bias against a person who is born a different way. You are entitled to your opinion. I am not required to respect it.

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07/30/2012 12:54 PM

No bias. Nobody said they can't be together or love each other or raise children or have the same legal rights. The only bias is the one you imagined, or were told to imagine. , ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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** Private **
07/30/2012 01:12 PM

> No bias. > > Nobody said they can't be together or love each other or raise > children or have the same legal rights. > They just can't use the word "marriage", eh?

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07/30/2012 01:18 PM

somin like that ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 01:18 PM

A reserved word ya know? . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 06:43 PM

If it is reserved, then Christians can't use it.  Pagans were using it long before Christianity. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 A reserved word ya know? . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 06:42 PM

And separate but equal worked so well for black folk, didn't it? Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 somin like that ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:35 PM

that is exactly what Cathy has said, and if you read the mission statements of the various anti gay groups he supports they want to remove even the few legal rights gays do have. but hey never let reality get in the way of another fable. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:49 PM

Prove it already. Give me some content. So far you've said Christian values are hate speech. What else do you have? . > > that is exactly what Cathy has said, and if you read the mission > statements of the various anti gay groups he supports they want to > remove even the few legal rights gays do have. > > but hey never let reality get in the way of another fable.

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07/30/2012 06:42 PM

No Sam...sometimes wrong is just wrong.  Just because it is an opinion doesn't mean that it is right, ok, or correct. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 You call someone a hater and a fool because they have a different opinion. That's just selfish and wrong. Learn tolerance. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- argument. > Give me a logical argument. Do this, and I'll gladly acquiesce. >

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07/30/2012 06:39 PM

I am being even more traditional...pagans allowed anyone to get married regardless of sex.  They were around long before Christianity or even Judaism was a twinkle in YHVY's eye. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 > > Because people are haters. Not the ones that think of traditional > marriage, you new age folk. > Stop hating people for having a sense of tradition. It's your hating > that makes me think your request is unreasonable. > yes, I do hate the idea tradition should trump reason. That is the height of stupidity, of ignorance....i hate stupidity and ignorance. > You would think that the Greek and Roman cultures would have agreed > with you yet they  didn't.  Were they homophobic also? > Don't give a shit about greece and rome. Just care about ignorant Americans. Tradition. What the hell is that? that's the new buzz word for exclusion. Chick Fil A doesn't hate gays, they just support "traditional marriage". Tradition. Do we think homosexuals are purely a modern phenomenon? If marriage had been offered to all people in the 1920's, and society had not scorned anyone deemed gay, then the "traditional" definition of marriage would have included homosexuals for the last century. Tradition. Stupid. The idea that if you establish a bias early enough, and let enough years pass, then you can call this "tradition" and use it as an argument to continue your bias. I bet southerners supported the "traditional" definition of the American Negro...not this new fangled idea of them as "created equal". Here's a simple truth: Sometimes traditional is wrong.

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07/30/2012 09:37 PM

Not looking anything up before you spew I see. . > > I am being even more traditional...pagans allowed anyone to get married > regardless of sex.  They were around long before Christianity or even > Judaism was a twinkle in YHVY's eye.

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07/30/2012 10:11 PM

That is a fact.  There were pagan faiths long before Judaism was around. Babylonian, Sumerian, Chinese, Arabic, not to mention all of the pagan faiths of the African tribes were aroundlong before Judaism. Judaism sprung out of Canaanite Paganism.  That is a matter of fact, not an opinion. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Not looking anything up before you spew I see. . > > I am being even more traditional...pagans allowed anyone to get > married regardless of sex.  They were around long before Christianity > or even Judaism was a twinkle in YHVY's eye. >

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07/31/2012 10:48 AM

Remember we were talking about marriage, not history in general? . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 11:59 AM

The root of this whole issue is that the same word 'marriage' is used by 2 different entities to describe 2 different things. Most religious institutions use the word to describe a religious rite or ceremony. The government uses the word to describe a civil 'contract' between adults. My issue is that people in religious institutions are trying to push their definition of 'marriage' on to the government. By telling 2 people they cannot enter into a contract solely based on their sexual orientation is, without a doubt, discriminatory. To me, it is akin to telling a gay man he cannot sign a lease for no other reason than the fact that he is gay. Personally, I think the government should get out of the marriage business. What we now know as 'marriage' in the eyes of the government would simply be called something different. People who want to get married would do so in a church, temple, etc. But if they want that 'union' to be recognized by the government, they need to follow an additional procedures or file different paperwork. Right now, in a Catholic church for example, when a couple gets married, the priest performs the religious ceremony AND the civil 'paperwork', under my suggestion, they would be separated to avoid any confusion. Any adults who enter into this new 'civil contract' would be eligible for the same benefits from the federal government as 'married' people do now. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:04 PM

We've all agreed this is the best approach, but it's never going to happen. People have too much invested emotion in the idea of their "marriages". Will young men get down on one knee and ask their girlfriends to "legally bond" with them? Not gonna happen. The idea of marriage, and the word "marriage", are here to stay. So if we need to have two separate notions of the word.....that recognized as a legal contract by the state...and that recognized as a sacrament by the church...then so be it. As such, though, only the Church should be able to deny that sacrament to people based on sexual orientation. Pure and simple. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:31 PM

/When people talk about how same sex marriage will change heterosexual marriages may be a bit correct. 8 years ago my cousin married his significant other. Wendy and I attended the wedding. It was a great time, everyone got smashed. 9 months later Alexis was born. So you see same sex marriages can affect straight ones. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:32 PM

If you want to go for the religious ritual fine. But you should put in and fill out the paperwork yourself. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:21 PM

Which is exactly why there is opposition.  The religious aspect is just the tool used by the propaganda machine to cover up the real reason - which is the cost for the benefits. > > Any adults who enter into this new 'civil contract' would be eligible > for the same benefits from the federal government as 'married' people > do now.

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07/31/2012 12:29 PM

Sure that is about the most rational approach. As long as straights and gays have all the same rights,  benefits and penalties when it comes to the civil marriage, then I have no problem with it. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:31 PM

Not at all. It's more like telling a gay man he shouldn't call himself a heterosexual. See the difference between denying someone something real vs denying someone use of a title? . > > To me, it is akin to > telling a gay man he cannot sign a lease for no other reason than the > fact that he is gay.

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07/31/2012 12:41 PM

Your analogy makes no sense. In the eyes of the federal government, gay couples cannot be 'married', therefore they do not have the same rights afforded to 'married' hetero sexual couples. Maybe my analogy could be better. Its like letting a gay man sign a lease, but he won't get heat or hot water like the heterosexual man he has as a neighbor. That seems more fitting. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:46 PM

The lease is called Civil Union. Same thing with a different name. If the civil union doesn't provide heat, make it. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:58 PM

Can they still call it "heat"? Or is that a threat to traditional "heat"? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 01:02 PM

Depends? Will they use radial heat or forced air? . > > Can they still call it "heat"? Or is that a threat to traditional "heat"?

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07/31/2012 01:05 PM

They want to use the same heat as the hetero's next door.... ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 01:07 PM

That's stealing. They need to supply their own heat . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 03:23 PM

As far as I know, the federal government does not recognize 'civil unions'. For instance, a couple in a 'civil union' cannot file as 'married' on their tax return. Separate..and yet, still not equal. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 03:32 PM

Filing 'married' will cost more in taxes. Might as well argue they can't get divorced. . > > As far as I know, the federal government does not recognize 'civil > unions'. For instance, a couple in a 'civil union' cannot file as > 'married' on their tax return. > > Separate..and yet, still not equal.

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08/01/2012 08:04 PM

As I was eating my chicken biscuit from Chi-Fil-A this morning, I was thinking about what some black pastors had to say about certain cities banning the restaurant. Some people are saying because of the position that Chick-fil-A has taken - they don?t want them in their cities.  It?s a disgrace. It?s the same thing that happened when I was marching for civil rights, when they didn?t want a black to come into their restaurant, they didn?t want us staying in their hotels. Now they?re saying, because we take a Christian position, they don?t want us in their cities. Well, we won?t take it. We will stand up and they will learn, they will learn that they can?t do that to any people, by destroying religion, by destroying the family, we will stand up. - the Reverend William Owens Put this with the editorials from Boston and Chicago, it looks like Chic-Fil-A should consider a discrimination lawsuit. As an aside, today, one Chic-Fil-A in my area ran out of food due to the large crowds.  I was travelling today, a lot of the way through GA, and every Chic-Fil-A I passed was jammed.  Some had long lines of cars waiting to turn into the parking lot. J - A society that puts equality?in the sense of equality of outcome?ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom. - Milton

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08/01/2012 11:20 PM

And that's what I said before. There may be a lot more extremists who hate homosexuals than we think, and Chik a Fil's public relations may appeal to them. Others will go simply because they feel it is a different type of discrimination. This may have been a brilliant move on the part of Chik to read the American Public and capitalise on latent discrimination and confused civil rights agendas. Perhaps another major food chain should come out with a statement against Blacks getting jobs, or being allowed to marry whites, and see if their sales surge as well. On 1 August 2012 20:04, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/01/2012 11:23 PM

" There may be a lot more extremists who hate homosexuals than we think, " and those who think Marriage is a divine ceremony between a man and a woman. Had this discussion a few days ago, and the view expressed was that all marriage ceremonies, even those by Atheists, have their roots in Religion. And furthermore that culture comes from religion only. On 1 August 2012 23:19, Vivec <gel214th@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 12:48 PM

"Perhaps another major food chain should come out with a statement against Blacks getting jobs, or being allowed to marry whites, and see if their sales surge as well." First off, Chic Fil A did not come out against Gay Marriage.  There is no corporate policy.  There is an opinion by Dan Cathy. Next off, I personally don't care if anyone comes out with statements like you mentioned as long as they are willing to face the consequences of those statements. They can urge that whites not be able to get a job or that whites can't marry blacks too. It's freedom of speech. Now, if they start forcing such policies on people, I'll won't agree. J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

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08/02/2012 01:04 PM

Wrong. There is a corporate policy of supporting groups that are strongly biased against gays. Let me repeat not opinion, Policy. The groups I listed support such efforts as getting bills passed in the Ugandan parliament making being gay a death penalty offense. These groups support fraudulent therapies for converting gays to straights. These groups advance agendas intended to make gays an even more persecuted minority - remembe rthat only 5 years ago Focus on the Family still advocated special camps for those infected with HIV. I do not care what a fanatical jerk of a CEO may think. I object to the behavior of the company in supporting hate groups. See the difference Opinion   Behavior. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 01:27 PM

Why do you keep parroting moonbats but not backing any of it up? Show me something so I can analyze it myself. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 01:38 PM

"We are also stretching the word 'belief' here a bit. I don't have any 'beliefs' that drive my opinions on gay marriage. I don't "'believe' that gay marriage would have no ill affect on the institution of marriage. All reasonable and obvious secular evidence suggests such.  There is no secular reason to oppose gay marriage that I am aware of. Only theological ones." All I believe is that those who support gay marriage have the right to lobby for it and those who don't support it have the right to lobby against it.  I haven't put any time into investigate if there would be any ill effects on anything. Off the top of my head, I can think of one financial reason why some would oppose it.  It is strictly in terms of having two same sex friends marry in order to draw financial benefits from a state or company.  I guess that could happen with opposite sex couples as well though, but it doesn't seem as likely. "J, come on, do i really need to add "but this is just my opinion" on the end of EVERYTHING I state?" Looked like you were stating an absolute.  Good to know that you don't believe it is an absolute.  You can never tell with some people. As a complete of the topic aside on the issue of absolutes, it is impossible to debate as an atheist.  As an atheist, one has to debate that God does not exist.  How can one know that unless that person knows everything.  Hence that person becomes God.  So, in proper philosophical debates, atheists almost always debate as agnostics. J - Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny - Thomas Jefferson

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08/02/2012 02:42 PM

I have multiple times. I've presented links to Focus on teh Family's policies, the annual IRS report by CFA's charitable arm. What else do you want, a video fo my giving Cathy a weggie until he confesses. And still you'll find a way to excuse CFA. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 02:43 PM

And quit with the insults. That is exactly what I was referring to about you. Can you NOT have a discussion without the insults? Grow up dude we're not 4 year olds who think that screaming "You're a pootie head!" is the height of reasoned argument. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 03:33 PM

Sorry, did the word "parroting" offend you? Or was it calling your sources moonbats? I didn't think a guy that used the term "reich-wing" daily for almost a year could be so easily offended. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > > And quit with the insults. That is exactly what I was referring to > about you. Can you NOT have a discussion without the insults? Grow up > dude we're not 4 year olds who think that screaming "You're a pootie > head!" is the height of reasoned argument.

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08/02/2012 05:33 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: > >  Grow up > dude we're not 4 year olds who think that screaming "You're a pootie > head!" is the height of reasoned argument. Suddenly CF-Community makes a whole lot more sense.... -- Scott Stroz --------------- You can make things happen, you can watch things happen or you can wonder what the f*&k happened. - Cpt. Phil Harris http://xkcd.com/386/

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08/02/2012 01:12 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > First off, Chic Fil A did not come out against Gay Marriage.  There is no > corporate policy.  There is an opinion by Dan Cathy. > > Next off, I personally don't care if anyone comes out with statements like > you mentioned as long as they are willing to face the consequences of those > statements. One of those consequences: That it makes (some) people think that their company is against Gay Marriage. Ironic eh? -Cameron ...

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08/02/2012 01:13 PM

When a company supports organizations that are strongly against same sex marriage then its a pretty not too subtle hint that its a part of corporate policy. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Camer ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 01:16 PM

"One of those consequences: That it makes (some) people think that their company is against Gay Marriage. Ironic eh?" It's a consequence of free speech and Dan Cathy has to accept those consequences, whether they are good, bad, or irrelevant. J - What we have here in America today is a real-life jump-the-shark drama, starring a super-narcissistic president so desperate to create his own vainglorious legacy that he is willing to destroy his own political party and do enduring damage to his country in pursuit of his purely selfish ends. - Kyle-Anne Shiver

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08/02/2012 01:22 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > > "One of those consequences: That it makes (some) people think that > their company is against Gay Marriage. Ironic eh?" > > It's a consequence of free speech and Dan Cathy has to accept those > consequences, whether they are good, bad, or irrelevant. Yes, he does. So does Chic-fil-A, obviously. -Cameron ...

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08/02/2012 01:40 PM

"Yes, he does. So does Chic-fil-A, obviously." Exactly. Right now the consequences don't seem so severe. Two years down the road, it might be a different story. J - The ideal solution would be to leave the religions to devour themselves, without persecutions. - Adolf Hitler When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease - Adolf Hitler

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08/02/2012 01:45 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > Right now the consequences don't seem so severe. > I think this depends on who you talk to. But at least they don't seem to be losing much business over it yet. > Two years down the road, it might be a different story. > Yup. -Cameron ...

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08/02/2012 01:19 PM

"When a company supports organizations that are strongly against same sex marriage then its a pretty not too subtle hint that its a part of corporate policy." Show me company documentations.  Back it up Repeating the same line over and over doesn't make it true, it just reinforces your own opinion.  I'm sure you have convinced yourself by now so no need to keep repeating it without a little proof. J - A radical thinks two and two makes five. A liberal is more conservative. he knows two and two make four, but he's unhappy about it. - Herbert Prochnow

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08/02/2012 02:39 PM

I have. CFA makes its donations through their charitable arm Winshare. I have already shown what they contribute and the IRS report as my source. One of the largest recipients of CFA's charitable donations has been Focus on the Family, here is there position on same sex marriage: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/social-issues/marriage.aspx Marriage and Family Foundation http://familyfoundation.org/initiatives/marriage/ I could go on but each and every one of those organizations that I listed that have received funding through WinShape, Chick-Fil-A's official charitable arm have come out very strongly against same sex marriage. FOF and the MFF both have particular histories of promoting anti-gay legislation and action. Exodus International is well known for its anti-gay stance. The Fellowship Of Christian Athletes is vocal in its opposition to gays. Here's what it says in its application form: From http://image.teamfca.net/siteuploadfiles/FCA/2700706F-CF38-4FCD-B9E09BAEB17A3C29/8D77B8C2-29AE-4056-9AC3104B94D755FD.pdf FCA?s Sexual Purity Statement God desires His children to lead pure lives of holiness. The Bible is clear in teaching on sexual sin including sex outside of marriage and homosexual acts. Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternative lifestyle acceptable to God. While upholding God?s standard of holiness, FCA strongly affirms God?s love and redemptive power in the individual who chooses to follow Him. FCA?s desire is to encourage individuals to trust in Jesus and turn away from any impure lifestyle.[ According to Winshape's IRS report (see http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/581/581595471/581595471_201012_990PF.pdf) WinShape Gave Over $1.9 Million To Anti-Gay Groups. In 2010 alone. And a further 3 million from 2003 to 2009. Marriage & Family Foundation: $1,188,380 Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000 National Christian Foundation: $247,500 New Mexico Christian Foundation: $54,000 Exodus International: $1,000 Family Research Council: $1,000 Georgia Family Council: $2,500 How much more data do you want. Shall I go to Atlanta and browbeat Cathy for a few hours to get more information for you or is this enough? From the sounds of it you just keep moving the goal posts. I am sure that you'll find some way to excuse the company for this as well. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 03:31 PM

I don't get it. Can you tell us what part is hate speech? Actually cit and past the text so I know what you mean. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 08:28 AM

This is what I hate about both extremes. http://bit.ly/Qxs8IZ Sad thing is, you could reverse the captions and it would be true of some more of the left leaning crowd. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 09:17 AM

+1000 for truth On 8/2/2012 8:28 AM, Scott Stroz wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 09:39 AM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: > This is what I hate about both extremes. > > http://bit.ly/Qxs8IZ > > Sad thing is, you could reverse the captions and it would be true of > some more of the left leaning crowd. Yes, on both sides. On the extreme left it's this attitude of love and acceptance, unicorns and rainbows, unless you disagree with a very rigid opinion, in which case you are the devil and must be destroyed. On the extreme right it's the same but without the rainbows and unicorns. -Cameron ....

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08/02/2012 11:19 AM

The radical middle. Why do we have to have sides? The guy had an opinion, we should all be able to get over it. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 08:53 AM

I passed a Chick Fil A at 8:30PM last night, and the line was ridiculous....easily 50 cars in line of the drive through. People spilling out of the doors of the place...at 8:30 PM! The good Christian soldiers had been called out by their pastors and priests to support......the denial of rights to their fellow man. Hmmm. I bet their God is proud! ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 09:19 AM

I'm not sure he's proud, but I'm sure he's taking notes :) the whole "Thou shalt not bear false witness" and all On 8/2/2012 8:52 AM, GMoney wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 11:22 AM

Is Christianity under attack? . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Scott Stewart <webmaster@sstwebworks.com> wrote: > > I'm not sure he's proud, but I'm sure he's taking notes :) > the whole "Thou shalt not bear false witness" and all

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08/02/2012 12:00 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > Is Christianity under attack? > 75% of the country is Christian. If they are under attack, I wouldn't worry about them winning.

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08/02/2012 12:09 PM

Well then attack away, they'll be fine. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:00 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 12:13 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well then attack away, they'll be fine. > The Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin, is worthy of attack. Their belief that contraception is a sin, is worthy of attack. These beliefs are harmful to our society. If Christians consider that an "attack on their faith"....then I'm fine with that. Their belief is wrong, and worse, it's harmful.

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08/02/2012 12:21 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:12 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin, is worthy of attack. Obama and Holder had those beliefs six months ago, but politics changed their official statements. They weren't attacked. > Their belief that contraception is a sin, is worthy of attack. Why don't you just ignore them? Why attack? > These beliefs are harmful to our society. No they aren't. Only to themselves. > If Christians consider that an "attack on their faith"....then I'm fine > with that. Their belief is wrong, and worse, it's harmful. Those are just the beginning issues, it won't stop until they're gone or in hiding. Eventually they'll need crosses sewn onto there jackets so they'll be identifiable. or something. .

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08/02/2012 12:38 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > Obama and Holder had those beliefs six months ago, but politics > changed their official statements. They weren't attacked. > I'm not that interested in altruism. If politics makes a person do the right thing, so be it. > Their belief that contraception is a sin, is worthy of attack. > > Why don't you just ignore them? Why attack? > Because their actions hurt society. They were opposed delivering millions of free condoms to African countries ravaged by AIDS. That can't be ignored. That kind of stupid opposition needs to be attacked and defeated. > These beliefs are harmful to our society. > > No they aren't. Only to themselves. > Wrongo. See my example above. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- All 200+ million of them? Really? Do you really believe this, or are you just trying to use hyperbole to scare me in a certain direction?

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08/02/2012 12:49 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:37 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm not that interested in altruism. If politics makes a person do the > right thing, so be it. As long as they say what you want to hear. > Because their actions hurt society. They were opposed delivering millions > of free condoms to African countries ravaged by AIDS. That can't be > ignored. That kind of stupid opposition needs to be attacked and defeated. They stopped the condoms or they didn't pay for them? Condoms won't help that much since dry sex is so popular there.

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08/02/2012 01:00 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- WEll of course....because i want to hear the right thing. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Doctors said condoms would help. The Church was opposed to giving them access to condoms in any form. if the church had their way, there would BE no condoms...either free or for sale. This is harmful. You know it is harmful. You don't agree with the church's position on this. You would personally fight this if you were doctor trying to help these people in Africa....and yet, on this list, you can't help but argue against it. I gotta ask...>WHY<? I'm not a Christian hater. You don't need to defend the entire religion against me. I'm just after them when their beliefs translate into ills in our society. I would think you'd join me in that, especially since I KNOW you agree with me. So why work so hard to be contrarian? Honest question.

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08/02/2012 01:24 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:00 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > Doctors said condoms would help. The Church was opposed to giving them > access to condoms in any form. if the church had their way, there would BE > no condoms...either free or for sale. Like I said, dry sex is too popular and probably the reason AIDS became an epidemic there. Sending condoms to people that would not use them is sort of like doing nothing. > This is harmful. You know it is harmful. You don't agree with the church's > position on this. You would personally fight this if you were doctor trying > to help these people in Africa....and yet, on this list, you can't help but > argue against it. If the Church tried to ban condoms or homosexuals or anything I would have an issue. But this is amongst Christians. They aren't telling me what I can and can't do so I think their right to do what they want within their group is so important in so many ways. When you take away their freedoms you eventually take away all freedoms. I feel very strongly about protecting everyone's freedoms. > I gotta ask...>WHY<? I'm not a Christian hater. You don't need to defend > the entire religion against me. I'm just after them when their beliefs > translate into ills in our society. I would think you'd join me in that, > especially since I KNOW you agree with me. So why work so hard to be > contrarian? Honest question.

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08/02/2012 01:00 PM

"These beliefs are harmful to our society." According to your world view, which you seem to be projecting as a standard. "If Christians consider that an 'attack on their faith'....then I'm fine with that." Good.  You should be fine with it.  Yet you are not fine with them attacking something you believe in.   How ironic. "Their belief is wrong, and worse, it's harmful." Again, you are projecting your opinion as the standard. J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

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08/02/2012 01:27 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > > "These beliefs are harmful to our society." > > According to your world view, which you seem to be projecting as a > standard. > AIDS is spread sexually. Some African countries have infection rates approaching 40%. Condoms can help stem the spread of the disease. Christians, and particularly the Catholic Church, oppose the distribution of condoms in these countries to help stem the tide of new AIDS infections. Without citing religious beliefs, can you tell me how this could possibly NOT be harmful? "If Christians consider that an 'attack on their faith'....then I'm fine > with > that." > > Good.  You should be fine with it.  Yet you are not fine with them > attacking something you believe in.   How ironic. > That's not irony, that's LIFE. I would EXPECT Christians to be upset about me attacking hteir beliefs. It's not ironic. It's not like i'm SURPRISED that they don't like their beliefs attacked. We are also stretching the word "belief" here a bit. I don't have any "beliefs" that drive my opinions on gay marriage. I don't "believe" that gay marriage would have no ill affect on the institution of marriage. All reasonable and obvious secular evidence suggests such. There is no secular reason to oppose gay marriage that I am aware of. Only theological ones. So again, we have secular reason vs. religious beliefs. I will (almost) always side with the former, regardless of the church associated with the latter. Just happens to be Christians in this case. "Their belief is wrong, and worse, it's harmful." > > Again, you are projecting your opinion as the standard. > J, come on, do i really need to add "but this is just my opinion" on the end of EVERYTHING I state? From henceforth, on matters not related to obvious fact, when I state something in a declarative way, assume it is my opinion. There :)

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08/02/2012 01:34 PM

I'm still not getting this. Are you upset that the Church's form of charity doesn't suit you or are they physically blocking the distributions of condoms by other organizations? . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:26 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > AIDS is spread sexually. Some African countries have infection rates > approaching 40%. Condoms can help stem the spread of the disease. > Christians, and particularly the Catholic Church, oppose the distribution > of condoms in these countries to help stem the tide of new AIDS infections.

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08/02/2012 02:22 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm still not getting this. Are you upset that the Church's form of > charity doesn't suit you or are they physically blocking the > distributions of condoms by other organizations? > I'm upset that their beliefs would, ultimately, kill people. If a citizen of one of these countries went to church, and their priest warned them about the sinfulness of contraception....and to they went out and had unprotected sex with someone who was HIV positive, got the disease, and died......well, that upsets me.

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08/02/2012 03:18 PM

So you're upset they practice their religion? You know they also teach abstinence. So if you only follow teh religion half way who's to blame? . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:22 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 03:38 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > So you're upset they practice their religion? > Parts of it, yes. Are you upset that Muslim extremists practice their religion? > You know they also teach abstinence. So if you only follow teh > religion half way who's to blame? > What if your wife/husband is HIV positive?

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08/02/2012 03:41 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:38 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > > Parts of it, yes. > > Are you upset that Muslim extremists practice their religion? When it effects me. When it just effects them I say have at it. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Abstinence still works.

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08/02/2012 03:49 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > When it effects me. When it just effects them I say have at it. > Well me too. If you were gay, this would certainly affect you.

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08/02/2012 03:53 PM

In what way? If I were Christian I would be a sinner. Big deal, lots of sinners out there. Say some hail Mary's or whatever or change religions. Other than that the Church can think or say what they want about it. They don't make laws. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:48 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 03:59 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > In what way? If I were Christian I would be a sinner. Big deal, lots > of sinners out there. Say some hail Mary's or whatever or change > religions. Other than that the Church can think or say what they want > about it. They don't make laws. > They vote, they influence laws. States are debating whether to pass laws defining marriage as only between a man and a woman. You don't think that would affect you?

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08/02/2012 04:11 PM

Free will baby. Religion can't force people to vote for a particular candidate. They can only ask them to. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:59 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 04:26 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: > > Free will baby. > Religion can't force people to vote for a particular candidate. They > can only ask them to. > Yeah i know it's free will but....you can still have an opinion about how a person acts. If someone kicked you in the nuts, that was their own free will....but you don't have to like it. You can have an opinion that people who oppose gay marriage are not doing your community a service. It's OK to think that Sam. We won't tell your conservative friends :)

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08/02/2012 04:37 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 4:26 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yeah i know it's free will but....you can still have an opinion about how a > person acts. Yes, I don't expect you to like Dan Cathy's views, but some of your comments about him make you no better. > If someone kicked you in the nuts, that was their own free will....but you > don't have to like it. You're blending opinions with physical actions. > You can have an opinion that people who oppose gay marriage are not doing > your community a service. It's OK to think that Sam. We won't tell your > conservative friends :) I don't see it as a dis-service. I see this fight as a dis-service. Meaning if the effort was put forth to create equality nationally through civil unions it would have been done already. Then, call the people against civil unions bigots and I'll hold your sign. .

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08/02/2012 04:47 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Well, we hold opposing views I guess. He does not think homosexuals should be allowed to be married. I think they should. As to this making me "no better than Dan Cathy"...i guess that depends on who's "right", which is something that either remains eternally undecided, or if there turns out to be a God, would be decided by him. If it does come to that, I like the fact that I'm on the side of granting privileges, and not denying them. I don't see it as a dis-service. I see this fight as a dis-service. > Meaning if the effort was put forth to create equality nationally > through civil unions it would have been done already. Then, call the > people against civil unions bigots and I'll hold your sign. > We've all agreed on here that one secular idea of a "civil union" that is applied equally to all would be the best solution. But that's just not reality. So we're left toiling with what we've got.

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08/02/2012 08:38 PM

Actually they do.  Remember all the politicians that were denied communion over a vote on an abortion bill a few years ago? ------------------------------------ Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer owner@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com ------------------------------------ Free will baby. Religion can't force people to vote for a particular candidate. They can only ask them to. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:59 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 09:54 PM

"States are debating whether to pass laws defining marriage as only between a man and a woman. " Correction:  States already have.  Including California. J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

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08/02/2012 10:04 PM

Laughing out loud at Focus on the Family.  That's the best opponents can do?  Their website pretty much says they don't like gay marriage.  Not that surprising for a Christian organization. So, I am guessing that by your standard it's not okay for Chic Fil A to give to an organization that doesn't like gay marriage but it is okay for any entity to give to an organization that does support gay marriage. If so, that would saying your standards are better than others. Not very tolerant but completely predictable. J - The individual who can do something that the world wants done will, in the end, make his way regardless of his race. - Booker T. Washington

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08/02/2012 10:36 PM

They and Exodus internation support "Pray Away the Gay" programs which are dangerous and have led to suicides when people realize that praying it away doesn't work and they can't live with being an abomination.  Both groups were also involved with lobbying the Ugandan Kill the Gay laws. ------------------------------------ Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer owner@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com ------------------------------------ Laughing out loud at Focus on the Family.  That's the best opponents can do? Their website pretty much says they don't like gay marriage.  Not that surprising for a Christian organization. So, I am guessing that by your standard it's not okay for Chic Fil A to give to an organization that doesn't like gay marriage but it is okay for any entity to give to an organization that does support gay marriage. If so, that would saying your standards are better than others. Not very tolerant but completely predictable. J - The individual who can do something that the world wants done will, in the end, make his way regardless of his race. - Booker T. Washington

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08/02/2012 08:46 PM

Since you are so against these people, and most Blacks are actually against gay marriage, are you against Blacks? (I know you aren't but thought I'd troll a bit) . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:22 PM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 08:13 PM

Isn't the instruction to "turn the other cheek"? On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: > 75% of the country is Christian. > > If they are under attack, I wouldn't worry about them winning.

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08/02/2012 11:21 AM

Or people supporting free speech and or separation of church and state. I can't believe people wouldn't support that. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:52 AM, GMoney <gm0n3y06@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 12:44 PM

Funny. The people who want to inject their own beliefs into the lives of everyone else are supporting the 'separation of church and state'. Any by 'funny' I mean, sad, pathetic and hypocritical. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 12:54 PM

By "inject their own belief into the lives of everyone else", do you mean Dan Cathy started a movement to ban gay marriage or  homosexuals or did he just answer a question saying he didn't support it? The way I see it is he gave a personal opinion when asked and the left tried to block the  company he works for from doing business. And you think I'm the problem. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: > > Funny. The people who want to inject their own beliefs into the lives > of everyone else are supporting the 'separation of church and state'. > > Any by 'funny' I mean, sad, pathetic and hypocritical.

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08/02/2012 05:25 PM

No..I meant the people who support 'traditional families' and want it legislated as such who are showing support fort Chik-Fil-A. They want separation of church and state, but only when it benefits them,. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 05:50 PM

The message sent yesterday was don't try to strong arm people you don't agree with. Dan Cathy nor anyone eating at CFA yesterday, that I know of, mentioned legislation. But feel free to add whatever you think is needed to support your judgement of such a large group of people. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: > > No..I meant the people who support 'traditional families' and want it > legislated as such who are showing support fort Chik-Fil-A. > > They want separation of church and state, but only when it benefits them,.

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08/02/2012 05:57 PM

OK..lets pretend that was the message. Still hypocritical, and asinine. Do you recall the Christian right getting all antsy about Nabisco and the 'rainbow Oreo'? Or the JC Penney Father's day ads that showed gay couples? Yea, these are the same types of people who sent that message yesterday. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 08:43 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: > > OK..lets pretend that was the message. > > Still hypocritical, and asinine. Free speech is hypocritical, and asinine? I guess nothing else can be said to change your opinion. > Do you recall the Christian right getting all antsy about Nabisco and > the 'rainbow Oreo'? Or the JC Penney Father's day ads that showed gay > couples? Nope. Why are we talking about them now? They sound either anti-gay or someone telling them to keep what happens in the bedroom in the bedroom. > Yea, these are the same types of people who sent that message yesterday. I see you are comfortable prejudging most Americans. .

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08/04/2012 08:49 AM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Sam <sammycode@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- No Sam its hypocritical to scream for separation of church and state, yet try at every turn to inject your religious beliefs into legislation. Sometimes I swear you are purposely obtuse ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Why are we talking about this now? Really, you can't see the similarities? If you can't, not worth explaining. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 07:45 PM

I cannot help but wonder which Biblical tradition they support. Harems, concubines, multiple wives,  marrying the brother's wife, marrying the woman who was impregnated by a ghost? Can anyone give me a single example from the Bible of a two person hetero-sexual marriage? That being said, I've known Truett Cathy since I was a child and would eat at the Dwarf House with my Granddaddy.  I've always thought Mr. Cathy was a sweet man, and have often defended his religion positions - Sunday closing, etc. .  And I love the food.  Dan Cathy certainly has a right to his opinion, much as Lester Maddox did when he waved a pick handle at his restaurant and refused to serve blacks.  Maddox later became Governor of Georgia because he sang the right song to the demographic base. If you ask most of the people who are supporting Chik-fil-a what their reason is for doing so 1)Anti-gay marriage or 2)Supporting his right to voice his opinions, most will say the latter, and those who say the former are going to be anti-gay marriage regardless of what Dan Cathy says. The anti-gay agenda is not about religion, it is about economics, and it is being funded in large part by those who aren't going to air their opinions in public.  They will simply pay some high priced PR firm to spread the word for them and the media is their lapdog. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Scott Stroz <boyzoid@gmail.com> wrote: > > No..I meant the people who support 'traditional families' and want it > legislated as such who are showing support fort Chik-Fil-A. > > They want separation of church and state, but only when it benefits them,.

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08/02/2012 10:10 PM

"Can anyone give me a single example from the Bible of a two person hetero-sexual marriage?" Mary and Joseph. "If you ask most of the people who are supporting Chik-fil-a what their reason is for doing so 1)Anti-gay marriage or 2)Supporting his right to voice his opinions, most will say the latter, and those who say the former are going to be anti-gay marriage regardless of what Dan Cathy says." I think you are right on target with this. "The anti-gay agenda is not about religion, it is about economics, and it is being funded in large part by those who aren't going to air their opinions in public.  They will simply pay some high priced PR firm to spread the word for them and the media is their lapdog." You may be right.  I believe corporations control everything, so it wouldn't be surprising to me to find out that the gay marriage debate is being used to distract the populace or to help some corporate giant make money. You are certainly correct about the lap dog media.  Completely compromised. J - Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence - Ronald Reagan

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08/02/2012 10:37 PM

That was a Threesome...Mary, Joseph, and God... ------------------------------------ Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer owner@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com ------------------------------------ "Can anyone give me a single example from the Bible of a two person hetero-sexual marriage?" Mary and Joseph. "If you ask most of the people who are supporting Chik-fil-a what their reason is for doing so 1)Anti-gay marriage or 2)Supporting his right to voice his opinions, most will say the latter, and those who say the former are going to be anti-gay marriage regardless of what Dan Cathy says." I think you are right on target with this. "The anti-gay agenda is not about religion, it is about economics, and it is being funded in large part by those who aren't going to air their opinions in public.  They will simply pay some high priced PR firm to spread the word for them and the media is their lapdog." You may be right.  I believe corporations control everything, so it wouldn't be surprising to me to find out that the gay marriage debate is being used to distract the populace or to help some corporate giant make money. You are certainly correct about the lap dog media.  Completely compromised. J - Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence - Ronald Reagan

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08/02/2012 11:50 PM

Shouldn't that be Mary, Joseph and the Holy Ghost?  Definitely not what Focus on Family would call a traditional marriage, although those immaculate conceptions, or at least the claim of them, are pretty common in the rural south. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Can anyone give me a single example from the Bible of a two person > hetero-sexual > marriage?" > > Mary and Joseph.

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08/03/2012 12:43 AM

"Shouldn't that be Mary, Joseph and the Holy Ghost?" Nah.  The Holy Ghost didn't marry anyone.  Maybe impregnated someone. After Jesus was born, you would have Mary, Joseph, and the Holy Ghost That trinity concept is not elementary. Then there is the couple Adam and Eve and the couple of Noah and his unnamed wife. J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

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08/03/2012 04:46 PM

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Jerry Barnes <criticalj@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Shouldn't that be Mary, Joseph and the Holy Ghost?" > > Nah.  The Holy Ghost didn't marry anyone.  Maybe impregnated someone. So if I turn up pregnant out of wedlock and claim that God did it do you think I'm gonna find a Southern Baptist preacher who will perform that ceremony? > > After Jesus was born, you would have Mary, Joseph, and the Holy Ghost.   That trinity concept is not elementary. So if the trinity concept is acceptable, I could marry both a man and a god? You think I'm gonna find a Southern Baptist preacher who will perform that ceremony? > > Then there is the couple Adam and Eve and the couple of Noah and his unnamed wife. No scripture for Adam and Eve ever being married.  And then there is her temptation by that pesky snake.  Noah had multiple wives. ... .... .....feeding the line monster.

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08/03/2012 12:35 PM

dammit where's the like button on this thing ;) On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Maureen <mamamaureen@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 10:54 AM

So you have no problems with corporations giving money to hate groups? Why am I not surprised. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 01:13 PM

"So you have no problems with corporations giving money to hate groups?" I have no problem with Soros giving money to organizations like Media Matters or President Obama tithing at Jeremiah Wright's church, "Why am I not surprised." You've probably seen it up close with your donations? J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. - John Quinton

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08/02/2012 11:44 AM

Beautifully said but lost on this crowd. The Reverend is obviously a hater. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 10:53 AM

Under DOMA they don't even recognize common law mariages. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 01:33 PM

It all goes back to "Separate but Equal" does not work.  We tried that once before.  Ask blacks how well that worked for them...  Marriage has been around in one form or another since before recorded history.  There may have been different words but it all meant the same thing and that including the union of same sex couples. Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 The root of this whole issue is that the same word 'marriage' is used by 2 different entities to describe 2 different things. Most religious institutions use the word to describe a religious rite or ceremony. The government uses the word to describe a civil 'contract' between adults. My issue is that people in religious institutions are trying to push their definition of 'marriage' on to the government. By telling 2 people they cannot enter into a contract solely based on their sexual orientation is, without a doubt, discriminatory. To me, it is akin to telling a gay man he cannot sign a lease for no other reason than the fact that he is gay. Personally, I think the government should get out of the marriage business. What we now know as 'marriage' in the eyes of the government would simply be called something different. People who want to get married would do so in a church, temple, etc. But if they want that 'union' to be recognized by the government, they need to follow an additional procedures or file different paperwork. Right now, in a Catholic church for example, when a couple gets married, the priest performs the religious ceremony AND the civil 'paperwork', under my suggestion, they would be separated to avoid any confusion. Any adults who enter into this new 'civil contract' would be eligible for the same benefits from the federal government as 'married' people do now. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- an opinion. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:27 PM

All these cultures allowed for same sex marriage. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/31/2012 12:33 PM

But they didn't. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 10:52 AM

Prove it Sam. I can provide data which supports my points. Show me where for instance that the Ancient Greeks were against homosexuality. Please discuss this in reference to the agogee and the Athenian practices of "mentorship". Also when looking at the Roman Empire, remember several emperors married their male lovers, Nero, Caligula and others. It wasn't until the late Roman Empire, and the emperor Theodosius banned same sex marriages. In classic China it was even more formalized with male homosexuals allowed to formally marry and who were a large part of the Han and Wei courts throughout the warring kingdoms period. During the later dynasties again it was just a part of life. In North American tribes, especially the plains Indians, it was again considered part of regular life with both some men and women having extra "souls" that permitted them to marry members of the same sex. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the Inca, Aztec or Mayan civilizations to comment. But here are some references for you if you care to read: Lahey, Kathleen A., Kevin Alderson. Same-sex marriage: the personal and the political. Insomniac Press, 2000. ISBN 1-894663-63-2 / 978-1894663632 Hinsch, Bret (1990). Passions of the Cut Sleeve: The Male Homosexual Tradition in China. Reed Business Information, Inc.. ISBN 0-520-07869-1. Kuefler, Mathew (2007). "The Marriage Revolution in Late Antiquity: The Theodosian Code and Later Roman Marriage Law". Journal of Family History 32 (4): 343?370. Eskridge, William N. (Oct 1993). "A History of Same-Sex Marriage". Virginia Law Review 79 (7). ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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08/02/2012 11:31 AM

You funny. I pointed out Ancient Greece because homosexuality was excepted but same sex marriage was non-existent or very rare. I love the book list. I'll read them all and then reply. . On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:12 PM

Slavery is also traditional. As it the idea of black inferiority So is Pogroms against Jews. so it genocide against natives or other minorities. There are a lot of traditions and that need to die a miserable, lonely and painful death. In my opinion, based on the available data, Cathy's attitude is one of them. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:15 PM

Are you that disconnected with reality? BTW, that was Eric's argument. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:18 PM

To quote "The height of stupidity and ignorance is to ridicule others peoples personal opinions." enough said Sam, you putting your foot in your mouth beyond the ankle. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:25 PM

You're so proud of what that makes you. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:23 PM

Don't you hate overweight people, drug addicts and children born out of wedlock? Why so strongly about this then? . > > To quote > > "The height of stupidity and ignorance is to ridicule others peoples > personal opinions." > > enough said Sam, you putting your foot in your mouth beyond the ankle.

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07/30/2012 12:16 PM

You need to look up the agoge  (Sparta) and the Athenian traditions of mentorship. Rome also allowed homosexual relations - look at Caesar and Octavian for instance. Even the early Christians had a bonding ceremony for men that was the equivalent of the marriage ritual. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 12:20 PM

Of course they allowed and accepted homosexual relationships yet they didn't marry. Odd isn't it? But using your logic, it's because they hate gays. . > > You need to look up the agoge  (Sparta) and the Athenian traditions of > mentorship. Rome also allowed homosexual relations - look at Caesar > and Octavian for instance. Even the early Christians had a bonding > ceremony for men that was the equivalent of the marriage ritual.

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07/30/2012 09:33 PM

you mean like the ceremony that Alexander the Great underwent with his male lover Hephaestion, or  Pausanias of Athens and the tragic poet Agathon. Actually the ritual that bound the pairs together in the Sacred Band of Thebes was based on the marriage ceremony. keep trying Sam, as typical with you you're wrong. Don't know that you're wrong and proud of your ignorance. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:48 PM

You're grasping and coming up empty. If we went way way out on a limb and called them marriages, it would still support my point that homosexual relations were accepted not hated yet marriages were not done or extremely rare(if we counted your case). . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 06:38 PM

Greek and Romans homophobic LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. You do realize that they call anal sex "Greek" Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Because people are haters. Not the ones that think of traditional marriage, you new age folk. Stop hating people for having a sense of tradition. It's your hating that makes me think your request is unreasonable. You would think that the Greek and Roman cultures would have agreed with you yet they  didn't.  Were they homophobic also? . > > Rights....deny them rights. Or equality of word. Or...whatever you > want to call it. > > "Marriage". Should be the same, across the board, gay or straight. > > You agree with this, so why are you playing devil's advocate?

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07/30/2012 09:36 PM

You're quick as a whip. Did you used to use the term "Greek" as an insult? . > > Greek and Romans homophobic LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. You do realize that they > call anal sex "Greek"

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07/30/2012 12:10 PM

You can believe whatever you want. The issue is that things have gone from belief to behavior. Its the action that counts. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 10:52 AM

Ah well then Rahm and a couple of other mayors said they would deny permits and such to prevent them from doing business. Now we enter separation of Church and State. Meanwhile back in Chicago, Farrakan, who hates gays and Jews, is now partnered with Rhamn to fight crime. That was announced the day after he said he'd block Chick-fil-A . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 11:11 AM

NOpe its fully within their rights. By your logic then it would be OK for a White Supremacist church to burn black chruches and crosses in people's lawns. The thing is that its not just belief, its corporate policy. Franchizee restrictions, donations to anti-gay hate groups by the corporation's charitable arm. That is well beyond a set of beliefs. Its become behaviors intended to discriminate against an identifiable minority group. So if you're saying its a matter of protecting Christian beliefs, will you show the same defense of the Aryan Nations Church and its associated businesses? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 11:27 AM

Your bizarre logic is based on someone stating they believe marriage should be between a  man and a woman as being hate speech. The same thing Obama said. Comparing that to destruction of property, terror and intimidation is just too far out there for me to follow. . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 06:35 PM

It wasn't Rahm...not that I am defending the asshat.  It was a Chicago Alderman.   Eric Roberts Owner/Developer Three Ravens Consulting owner@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 Ah well then Rahm and a couple of other mayors said they would deny permits and such to prevent them from doing business. Now we enter separation of Church and State. Meanwhile back in Chicago, Farrakan, who hates gays and Jews, is now partnered with Rhamn to fight crime. That was announced the day after he said he'd block Chick-fil-A . ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/30/2012 09:25 PM

It was Rahm and the Alderman. . > > It wasn't Rahm...not that I am defending the asshat.  It was a Chicago > Alderman.

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07/30/2012 10:54 AM

You mean aside from coming out against same sex marriage, or donating over 5 million to anti-gay hate groups since 2003? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/28/2012 09:45 AM

Remove the Christian and you're right. But that sort of hatred goes across religions, politics etc. it not limited to fundamentalist Christianity. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 04:26 PM

What literature specifically?  I follow a bunch of oath keeper groups, nationally and locally.  While there are individual members that are of the Alex Jones ilk, I don't get the "hate" label. Also, that article ties them to people that may be more out there, but that is not what our organization is about.  Actually go to the site and read up on our principals, not those attributed to us. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Larry C. Lyons <larryclyons@gmail.com>wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

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07/26/2012 03:35 PM

Tim, we've talked skinhead groups before and you know that I've spent some time with both Sharps and Skins, but (up here at least), the Sharps were always pretty damn homophobic even while denouncing racist skinheads. I think that it is important to differentiate between Sharps and Skins but I could never get behind calling Sharps the "good guys". They were a very hateful group in a lot of ways and had a pretty actively violent ethos (even when the ethos was playing nazi baseball). I know some Sharps that have grown up and become much mellower dudes, non-violent, and taking a more constructive approach to their anarchy. But they also wouldn't identify themselves as active members anymore, either. Cheers, Judah On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:27 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: > > Oath Keepers and the other patriot/political groups I am a member of are > not hate groups. > > They have also been one of the worst about lumping all skinheads together, > even non and anti racist skins.

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07/27/2012 12:12 PM

I didn't say we were nice or perfect.  Yes, many are homophobes, which is weird considering how homo-erotic some of the shirtless singalong arms around each other stuff is.  This has changed a lot though as many of us from the 80's have gotten older, and more open minded. In many places it is very much tied to gang culture.  It is often violent. So are lots of other subcultures that never gained our notoriety. Meh. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Judah McAuley <judah@wiredotter.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----


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