Appeals Court OKs Warrantless Wiretapping

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/08/appeals-court-oks-wiretapping/ Seriously though, what is with these recent administrations, they totally ignore civil rights, ignore the constitution, violate individual liberty at every turn.  I'm so sick of these people. How can you read the 4th and 5th amendments and think this is ok? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

It's pretty damn odious. I'll take slight heart in the fact that her ruling seems to be very narrow and technical. It could, if I understand her reasoning, be fixed very easily by Congress (not that that's very likely). She admits herself that the legalities are pretty absurd, but that's the way they are. As much as the 4th and 5th Amendments are part of the Constitution, so is Sovereign Immunity. The key bit of the article, in my opinion, is this: ** The San Francisco-based appeals court ruled that when Congress wrote the law regulating eavesdropping on Americans and spies, it never waived sovereign immunity in the section prohibiting targeting Americans without warrants. That means Congress did not allow for aggrieved Americans to sue the government, even if their constitutional rights were violated by the United States breaching its own wiretapping laws. ?Under this scheme, Al-Haramain can bring a suit for damages against the United States for use of the collected information, but cannot bring suit against the government for collection of the information itself,? Judge M. Margaret McKeown wrote for the majority. She was joined by Judge Michael Daly Hawkins and Judge Harry Pregerson. ?Although such a structure may seem anomalous and even unfair, the policy judgment is one for Congress, not the courts.? ** Messed up, but I see the point she's making. What we really need is for Congress to do their job, scrap the Patriot Act and associated laws around FISA and go forward with a new set of rules on intelligence activities that properly balances individual privacy with the need for information to help protect the country. Cheers, Judah On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:31 PM, LRS Scout <lrsscout@gmail.com> wrote: > > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/08/appeals-court-oks-wiretapping/ > > Seriously though, what is with these recent administrations, they totally > ignore civil rights, ignore the constitution, violate individual liberty at > every turn.  I'm so sick of these peo

So I have been doing some more reading about this. Sovereign immunity doesn't appear in the constitution, nor is enshrined in law really.  It is inherited from English Common law and the sovereign immunity of the crown.  Nah, I don't buy it.  Also there is a law called Federal Tort Claims Act that would seem to allow the these guys to sue. I don't like the idea of Sovereign Immunity even a little bit. The only exception seems to be the Feres case which prevents military members from suing. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Judah McAuley <judah@wiredotter.com>wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

"How can you read the 4th and 5th amendments and think this is ok?" I can't. However, I can envision some judges using some of the following: 1.  I need to earn the payoff. 2.  I really don't want that child porn they found on my computer released. 3.  I really don't want that child porn they planted on my computer released. 4.  The Constitution really is out of date.  It really should be a living, breathing document. Number 4 is the scariest. J - Human freedom is the first wish of our heart, freedom is the first blessing of our nature, yet when people shirk individual responsibility and expect more from the government, they fall prey to tyranny. - Edward Gibbon Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all - Michael Rivero

You know with the judges initial decisions I really had some hope here. I don't care if these guys get any money for damages, I only want to see an injunction against the detention policy. bah, who knows. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Here's a little video clip on NDAA. http://on.aol.com/video/ndaas-indefinite-detention-provision-sparks-controversy-517375310 Most of it is about a law suit against the Obama regime based on NDAA.  One of the plaintiffs is Cornel West, who was an Obama supporter at one time. What sucks though is that Romney has said he would have signed the NDAA if he were President. As stated many times before, there's not a whole lot of difference in terms of policies when you compare Obama and Romney. J - I am full of joy to be a plaintiff in this particular case. Why? Because we?re at a turning point in the history of this nation. We need to stand for freedom. There?s an escalating authoritarianism and even a creeping fascism. Freedom is precious. If we don?t fight for it, you lose it.- Cornel West Obama is a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats. And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it. - Cornel Wes