ColdFusion job location

This is a location that I use sometimes to find some work. Never got anything from it other than a nibble or two, but it's still an additional resource. http://www.itmoonlighter.com -- Michael Dinowitz Finding technical solutions to the problems you didn't know you had yet

So you're not the only one then that has never gotten anything from there. I have payed for their membership on several occasions and have only had 2 people contact me out of 100's of bids I put in and after I replied back to them I never got another response. I sometimes wonder how many of the posts on itmoonlighter are legit. Ben This is a location that I use sometimes to find some work. Never got anything from it other than a nibble or two, but it's still an additional resource. http://www.itmoonlighter.com -- Michael Dinowitz Finding technical solutions to the problems you didn't know you had yet   _____  

And I make three. I foolishly paid for two years, submitted tons of bids, and only got one that did not pay shit. Total rip.   _____ Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: CF job location So you're not the only one then that has never gotten anything from there. I have payed for their membership on several occasions and have only had 2 people contact me out of 100's of bids I put in and after I replied back to them I never got another response. I sometimes wonder how many of the posts on itmoonlighter are legit. Ben This is a location that I use sometimes to find some work. Never got anything from it other than a nibble or two, but it's still an additional resource. http://www.itmoonlighter.com -- Michael Dinowitz Finding technical solutions to the problems you didn't know you had yet   _____     _____  

Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly but haven't tried using it yet. And I make three. I foolishly paid for two years, submitted tons of bids, and only got one that did not pay shit. Total rip.   _____ Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: CF job location So you're not the only one then that has never gotten anything from there. I have payed for their membership on several occasions and have only had 2 people contact me out of 100's of bids I put in and after I replied back to them I never got another response. I sometimes wonder how many of the posts on itmoonlighter are legit. Ben This is a location that I use sometimes to find some work. Never got anything from it other than a nibble or two, but it's still an additional resource. http://www.itmoonlighter.com -- Michael Dinowitz Finding technical solutions to the problems you didn't know you had yet   _____     _____     _____  

I firmly believe that most of those type sites are not only salted with totally fake jobs, none is worse than Monster.com, but a US-based developer will be competing with off-shore competition who will most always beat you out, should the gig be a legitimate one. Secondly, there are just too many of them, that from the description are actually spammer list development, who are seeking more ways to circumvent email filers, and to get out the highest volume of email at a time, or batching it into groups with each group scanning the net for open proxies/open relays.  This type of programming is so repugnant to me that I have ceased even belonging to any of them any more. The very best source is networking - that is staying active with your local user group, and keeping them aware that you are available for gigs. ====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly | but haven't tried using it yet. | | | | -----Original Message----- | | Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:11 PM | To: CF-Jobs-Talk | Subject: RE: CF job location | | | | And I make three. I foolishly paid for two years, submitted tons of | bids, | and only got one that did not pay shit. Total rip. | |   _____ | | | Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:54 PM | To: CF-Jobs-Talk | Subject: RE: CF job location | | So you're not the only one then that has never gotten anything from | there. I have payed for their membership on several occasions and have | only had 2 people contact me out of 100's of bids I put in and after I | replied back to them I never got another response. I sometimes wonder | how many of the posts on itmoonlighter are legit. | | Ben | | -----Original Message----- | | Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:48 PM | To: CF-Jobs-Talk | Subject: CF job location | | This is a location that I use sometimes to find some work. Never got | anything | from it other than a nibble or two, but it's still an additional | resource. | http://www.itmoonlighter.com | | -- | Michael Dinowitz | Finding technical solutions to the problems you didn't know you had yet | |   _____ | | |   _____ | | | | |   _____ | | |

I have been using that for some time. I have had better luck with it. One problem on Rent-A-Coder is that someone usually underbids. For instance, if I say that I can do a project in x days for x dollars, I am undercut by sometimes hundreds of dollars, and on a couple of occasions, thousands. Once instance in particular is that I bid 5K on a project and the person who undercut bid three hundred dollars. I suspect that what they are going to do is giving the customer an HTML mockup of the site, and then slam them for a few grand to do the backend work. I believe that the term is bait and switch. Bruce   _____ Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:15 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: CF job location Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly but haven't tried using it yet. And I make three. I foolishly paid for two years, submitted tons of bids, and only got one that did not pay shit. Total rip.   _____ Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: CF job location So you're not the only one then that has never gotten anything from there. I have payed for their membership on several occasions and have only had 2 people contact me out of 100's of bids I put in and after I replied back to them I never got another response. I sometimes wonder how many of the posts on itmoonlighter are legit. Ben This is a location that I use sometimes to find some work. Never got anything from it other than a nibble or two, but it's still an additional resource. http://www.itmoonlighter.com -- Michael Dinowitz Finding technical solutions to the problems you didn't know you had yet   _____     _____     _____     _____  

They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that they keep the bidding process closed to other users. After bidding on several different projects I was selected for one, only to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on the wrong link and accidentally accepted the wrong bid". Gotta love technology. Hatton Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly but haven't tried using it yet.

Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a module to be added to an existing web site, and actually received two proposals, and 88 resumes. Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to provide what the client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is entirely database driven. The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he is more interested in getting the module built with the functionality and look and feel described in the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon milestones, or if it is really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is AAA. I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this list, who are interested in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal. Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is only a general statement, and is used to open a dialog with the client through which the exact specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final fixed price be determined by either side.  The client is as interested as the developer in avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what he wants, but not being technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to get there. ====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that they keep the | bidding process closed to other users. | | After bidding on several different projects I was selected for one, only | to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on the wrong link and | accidentally accepted the wrong bid". | | Gotta love technology. | | Hatton | | -----Original Message----- | | Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM | To: CF-Jobs-Talk | Subject: RE: CF job location | | | Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly | but haven't tried using it yet. | | | |

Doug, Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for CF-related projects. larry ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

  This actually surprises me.  I thought there was a pretty "on the ball" bunch reading the lists.   I did see the RFP, but decided against replying because I'm too busy.  ( Unless ya wanna wait a few months before implementation... ) At 05:27 PM 11/21/2003 -0600, you wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

This is a request for proposal for development of a web site addition with the features   as described below.   The web host will support ColdFusion versions 5.0 or CFMX 6.1 on either OS   platforms of Win2k, Win2003, or RedHat Linux/Apache 2.x.  Database supported:   either MySQL or SQL2k.  Thus the contractor may develop on a platform he/she is  most comfortable with. Hosting is NOT to be included in any proposal. Advance payments will not be  considered without first reviewing and approving a detailed design plan.   Proposals should include the total number of hours to develop, price and preferably be  split up into milestones, in order to receive payment upon delivery and   acceptance of the milestone.  Wireframe or non-functioning prototype should be submitted  Payment can be made via PayPal, or snail mail,   Contractors' preference.  It will be understood that final pricing cannot be determined until final approval of the design plan proposed.  All source code, documentation and intellectual property will become the sole property of the client upon final payment.   Statement of work:   The kind of site that I am looking for is similar to the one here http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/. My people will need to be  approved first before they can be accepted. This will keep anyone who  has a foul mouth or any other B.S. out because I would be able to restrict their  membership. I am not only looking to make it a discussion group but post old   photos, articles and info that will be seen  and discussed. The yahoo group that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away from what I envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more than they already do. I would have the original Hodaka guys also  participating in open discussions here. I would hope to be able to use their  email address's also for mass mailings for new items or products. I have a good friend who writes for motorcycle magazines. I would like for him to be able to have a column with the ability to add or change a photo or two for his article.  I would have him access so he could upload or change it as often as he likes. The primary web site is at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com   Address information requests and proposals to  proposals@clckdoug.com ====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | Doug, | | Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for CF-related projects. | | larry | | >Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a module to be added to | >an existing web site, and actually received two proposals, and 88 resumes. | >Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to provide what the | >client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is entirely | >database driven. | > | >The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he is more interested in | >getting the module built with the functionality and look and feel described in | >the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon milestones, or if it is | >really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is AAA. | > | >I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this list, who are | >interested | >in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal. | > | >Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is only a general | >statement, | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through which the exact | >specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final fixed price be | >determined by either side.  The client is as interested as the developer in | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what he wants, | >but not being | >technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to get there. | > | >====================================== | >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >For hosting solutions <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com | >Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >====================================== | >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | > | >----- Original Message ----- | >From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <ny5i@adelphia.net> | >To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:52 PM | >Subject: RE: CF job location | > | >| They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that they keep the | >| bidding process closed to other users. | >| | >| After bidding on several different projects I was selected for one, only | >| to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on the wrong link and | >| accidentally accepted the wrong bid". | >| | >| Gotta love technology. | >| | >| Hatton | >| | >| -----Original Message----- | >| | >| Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM | >| To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >| Subject: RE: CF job location | >| | >| | >| Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly | >| but haven't tried using it yet. | >| | >| | >| | >| | > | >[ |

I don't know about others, but I shyed away from submitting a proposal because it asked for a "prototype to be submitted" along side.  Don't get my wrong, I'm willing to earn the business of a potential client.  But I want to know (a) that they have money to spend, (b) what their budget is and (c) that they're still looking for candidates.  Like you said 90 people already through their hat in the right.  How is one to know that a decision hasn't been made already?  I haven't seen a "project closed" message appear on this project yet, and rarely see these at all on cf-jobs. I know you want to get the most bang for the buck.  Bet there's nothing wrong with saying "client has $10k - $15k budgeted for this project."  I think this would increase the amount of quality proposals you receive. By the way, if this project hasn't been closed, how much do you have budgeted for this project?   This is a request for proposal for development of a web site addition with the   features     as described below.     The web host will support ColdFusion versions 5.0 or CFMX 6.1 on either OS     platforms of Win2k, Win2003, or RedHat Linux/Apache 2.x.  Database supported:     either MySQL or SQL2k.  Thus the contractor may develop on a platform he/she   is  most comfortable with. Hosting is NOT to be included in any proposal.   Advance   payments will not be  considered without first reviewing and approving a   detailed design plan.     Proposals should include the total number of hours to develop, price and   preferably be  split up into milestones, in order to receive payment upon   delivery and     acceptance of the milestone.  Wireframe or non-functioning prototype should be   submitted  Payment can be made via PayPal, or snail mail,   Contractors'   preference.  It   will be understood that final pricing cannot be determined until final approval   of the design plan proposed.  All source code, documentation and intellectual   property will become the sole property of the client upon final payment.     Statement of work:     The kind of site that I am looking for is similar to the one here   http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/. My people will need to be approved   first before they can be accepted. This will keep anyone who  has a foul mouth   or any other B.S. out because I would be able to restrict their membership. I   am not only looking to make it a discussion group but post old     photos, articles and info that will be seen  and discussed. The yahoo group   that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away from what I   envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more than they already do.   I would have the original Hodaka guys also  participating in open discussions   here. I   would hope to be able to use their  email address's also for mass mailings for   new items or products. I have a   good friend who writes for motorcycle magazines. I would like for him to be   able to have a column with the ability to add or change a photo or two for his   article.  I would have him access so he could upload or change it as often as he   likes.   The primary web site is at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com     Address information requests and proposals to  proposals@clckdoug.com   ======================================   Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!   For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com   Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP   ======================================   If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!   | Doug,   |   | Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for CF-related projects.   |   | larry   |   | >Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a module to be added   to   | >an existing web site, and actually received two proposals, and 88 resumes.   | >Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to provide what the   | >client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is entirely   | >database driven.   | >   | >The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he is more interested in   | >getting the module built with the functionality and look and feel described   in   | >the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon milestones, or if it is   | >really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is AAA.   | >   | >I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this list, who are   | >interested   | >in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal.   | >   | >Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is only a general   | >statement,   | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through which the exact   | >specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final fixed price be   | >determined by either side.  The client is as interested as the developer in   | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what he wants,   | >but not being   | >technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to get there.   | >   | >======================================   | >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!   | >For hosting solutions <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com   | >Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP   | >======================================   | >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!   | >   | >----- Original Message -----   | >From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <ny5i@adelphia.net>   | >To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com>   | >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:52 PM   | >Subject: RE: CF job location   | >   | >| They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that they keep the   | >| bidding process closed to other users.   | >|   | >| After bidding on several different projects I was selected for one, only   | >| to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on the wrong link and   | >| accidentally accepted the wrong bid".   | >|   | >| Gotta love technology.   | >|   | >| Hatton   | >|   | >| -----Original Message-----   | >|   | >| Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM   | >| To: CF-Jobs-Talk   | >| Subject: RE: CF job location   | >|   | >|   | >| Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it briefly   | >| but haven't tried using it yet.   | >|   | >|   | >|   | >|   | >   | >[   |

The project is still open, and the budget is "Whatever is required to get what we want"  (exact quote from the client) The cost of the existing web site was in the neighborhood of $5 K It does not take much effort to click on the links in the RFQ to see what is desired, and not much more effort to do a couple of screen captures to go with your proposal. If you cannot be bothered to put out some effort and that is just to much for you, then do not respond.  It is really that easy. Like was posted before, a number of respondents responded only with a resume - which is not considered a response.  The two that did provide proposals, did not appear to be willing to give the client what he wants. As their hosting provider, I can vouch for prompt payment having been made to the other developers who have done work for them. What more can I say? ====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | I don't know about others, but I shyed away from submitting a proposal | because it asked for a "prototype to be submitted" along side.  Don't get my | wrong, I'm willing to earn the business of a potential client.  But I want | to know (a) that they have money to spend, (b) what their budget is and (c) | that they're still looking for candidates.  Like you said 90 people already | through their hat in the right.  How is one to know that a decision hasn't | been made already?  I haven't seen a "project closed" message appear on this | project yet, and rarely see these at all on cf-jobs. | | I know you want to get the most bang for the buck.  Bet there's nothing | wrong with saying "client has $10k - $15k budgeted for this project."  I | think this would increase the amount of quality proposals you receive. | | By the way, if this project hasn't been closed, how much do you have | budgeted for this project? |   -----Original Message----- | |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:46 PM |   To: CF-Jobs-Talk |   Subject: Re: CF job location | | |   This is a request for proposal for development of a web site addition with | the |   features |     as described below. | |     The web host will support ColdFusion versions 5.0 or CFMX 6.1 on either | OS |     platforms of Win2k, Win2003, or RedHat Linux/Apache 2.x.  Database | supported: |     either MySQL or SQL2k.  Thus the contractor may develop on a platform | he/she |   is  most comfortable with. Hosting is NOT to be included in any proposal. |   Advance |   payments will not be  considered without first reviewing and approving a |   detailed design plan. | |     Proposals should include the total number of hours to develop, price and |   preferably be  split up into milestones, in order to receive payment upon |   delivery and |     acceptance of the milestone.  Wireframe or non-functioning prototype | should be |   submitted  Payment can be made via PayPal, or snail mail,   Contractors' |   preference.  It |   will be understood that final pricing cannot be determined until final | approval |   of the design plan proposed.  All source code, documentation and | intellectual |   property will become the sole property of the client upon final payment. | |     Statement of work: |     The kind of site that I am looking for is similar to the one here |   http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/. My people will need to be | approved |   first before they can be accepted. This will keep anyone who  has a foul | mouth |   or any other B.S. out because I would be able to restrict their | membership. I |   am not only looking to make it a discussion group but post old |     photos, articles and info that will be seen  and discussed. The yahoo | group |   that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away from what I |   envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more than they | already do. |   I would have the original Hodaka guys also  participating in open | discussions |   here. I |   would hope to be able to use their  email address's also for mass mailings | for |   new items or products. I have a |   good friend who writes for motorcycle magazines. I would like for him to | be |   able to have a column with the ability to add or change a photo or two for | his |   article.  I would have him access so he could upload or change it as often | as he |   likes. | |   The primary web site is at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com | |     Address information requests and proposals to  proposals@clckdoug.com | | |   ====================================== |   Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! |   For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com |   Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP |   ====================================== |   If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | |   ----- Original Message ----- |   From: "Larry C. Lyons" <lyons@lyonsmorris.com> |   To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:36 PM |   Subject: Re: CF job location | |   | Doug, |   | |   | Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for CF-related | projects. |   | |   | larry |   | |   | >Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a module to be | added |   to |   | >an existing web site, and actually received two proposals, and 88 | resumes. |   | >Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to provide what | the |   | >client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is entirely |   | >database driven. |   | > |   | >The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he is more | interested in |   | >getting the module built with the functionality and look and feel | described |   in |   | >the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon milestones, or if | it is |   | >really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is AAA. |   | > |   | >I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this list, who are |   | >interested |   | >in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal. |   | > |   | >Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is only a general |   | >statement, |   | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through which the exact |   | >specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final fixed price be |   | >determined by either side.  The client is as interested as the | developer in |   | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what he wants, |   | >but not being |   | >technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to get there. |   | > |   | >====================================== |   | >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! |   | >For hosting solutions | <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com |   | >Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP |   | >====================================== |   | >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! |   | > |   | >----- Original Message ----- |   | >From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <ny5i@adelphia.net> |   | >To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> |   | >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:52 PM |   | >Subject: RE: CF job location |   | > |   | >| They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that they keep the |   | >| bidding process closed to other users. |   | >| |   | >| After bidding on several different projects I was selected for one, | only |   | >| to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on the wrong link | and |   | >| accidentally accepted the wrong bid". |   | >| |   | >| Gotta love technology. |   | >| |   | >| Hatton |   | >| |   | >| -----Original Message----- |   | >| |   | >| Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM |   | >| To: CF-Jobs-Talk |   | >| Subject: RE: CF job location |   | >| |   | >| |   | >| Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it | briefly |   | >| but haven't tried using it yet. |   | >| |   | >| |   | >| |   | >| |   | > |   | >[ |   | | |

This guy Doug sounds like a real charmer.  I can imagine that everyone is just chewing at the bit to start working with him.   | As the hosting provider for this client, I do not do the development , but   | recommend outsourcers for them.  This has been very successful for both me and   | for independent developers who wish to supplement their income.   |   | That said, I do not believe the site addition needs to be written from   scratch,   | but I am leaving that up to the proposer.  The request allowed for wide   latitude   | in development, in order to provide the developer with the route they felt   most   | comfortable with, not as a requirement that it "all being done from scratch."   | The important issue is that the client receives something they feel will be an   | asset to their main web site at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com   |   | I actually cannot see why this relatively simple opportunity for some extra   work   | is causing so much pain for those who have been complaining on a regular basis   | at the lack of available work.  I can only assume that they are just typing   | words with little meaning or thought behind them.   |   | Implementation of a moderated forum such as that at   | http://www.fortunasausage.com/aroundthekitchentable/   | and a signup page for  list server, as well as an archive of articles, is not   a   | difficult or technologically advanced project, but it seems to be really   scaring   | off developers who seem to be more interested in quantity of dollars, instead   of   | reasonable pay for effort expended.  If the proposer prefers to configure   | existing forum applications, so be it.  It must, however, be maintainable by   the   | client, as is the main web site via an administration section.  Further, the   | thinking is that this project will not make any developer rich, nor is it   | expected to be give-away work.  The budget is "whatever it takes to give the   | client what he wants."  It is, however, an opportunity for some extra holiday   | dollars for someone who wants it.  The project will be placed with domestic   | developers, by request of the client.   |   | As usual, and requests for additional information, details, etc. may be   | addressed to proposals@clickdoug.com   |   |   | ======================================   | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!   | http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm   | For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com   | Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP   | ======================================   | If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!   |   | ----- Original Message -----   | From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com>   | To: <proposals@clickdoug.com>   | Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:50 AM   | Subject: RE: CF job location   |   |   | | Hi Doug,   | |   | |   Have you looked at the several package forum products out there?  I know   | | there's a bunch of good ones in the $300 to $500 range that do everything   | | Yahoo Groups does and more.  There's no way any of us developers, who build   | | a custom product from scratch, are going to be able to compete with this   | | price.  Plus several of these products have been around for years, gone   | | through several iterations, and have a "burn-in time" which would insure a   | | more reliable product for your client.   | |   | |   ASP Playground is an ASP based form product I've used in the past and am   | | very happy with.   | |   | |   If your client still feels that they have something unique enough that   | | they can't use one of these packaged products, and would like to build one   | | from scratch - I can offer him my consulting services and will submit a   | | proposal in that regard.  But I can assure you that this will be atleast a   | | months work.   | |   | |   Best regards,   | |   | |   Ed.   | |     -----Original Message-----   | |   | |     Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:52 AM   | |     To: CF-Jobs-Talk   | |     Subject: Re: CF job location   | |   | |   | |     The project is still open, and the budget is "Whatever is required to   | | get what   | |     we want"  (exact quote from the client) The cost of the existing web   | | site was in   | |     the neighborhood of $5 K   | |   | |     It does not take much effort to click on the links in the RFQ to see   | | what is   | |     desired, and not much more effort to do a couple of screen captures to   | | go with   | |     your proposal. If you cannot be bothered to put out some effort and that   | | is just   | |     to much for you, then do not respond.  It is really that easy.   | |   | |     Like was posted before, a number of respondents responded only with a   | | resume -   | |     which is not considered a response.  The two that did provide proposals,   | | did not   | |     appear to be willing to give the client what he wants.   | |   | |     As their hosting provider, I can vouch for prompt payment having been   | | made to   | |     the other developers who have done work for them.   | |   | |     What more can I say?   | |   | |     ======================================   | |     Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!   | |     http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm   | |     For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com   | |     Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP   | |     ======================================   | |     If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!   | |   | |     ----- Original Message -----   | |     From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com>   | |     To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com>   | |     Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM   | |     Subject: RE: CF job location   | |   | |     | I don't know about others, but I shyed away from submitting a proposal   | |     | because it asked for a "prototype to be submitted" along side. Don't   | | get my   | |     | wrong, I'm willing to earn the business of a potential client. But I   | | want   | |     | to know (a) that they have money to spend, (b) what their budget is   | | and (c)   | |     | that they're still looking for candidates.  Like you said 90 people   | | already   | |     | through their hat in the right.  How is one to know that a decision   | | hasn't   | |     | been made already?  I haven't seen a "project closed" message appear   | | on this   | |     | project yet, and rarely see these at all on cf-jobs.   | |     |   | |     | I know you want to get the most bang for the buck.  Bet there's   | | nothing   | |     | wrong with saying "client has $10k - $15k budgeted for this project."   | | I   | |     | think this would increase the amount of quality proposals you receive.   | |     |   | |     | By the way, if this project hasn't been closed, how much do you have   | |     | budgeted for this project?   | |     |   -----Original Message-----   | |     |   | |     |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:46 PM   | |     |   To: CF-Jobs-Talk   | |     |   Subject: Re: CF job location   | |     |   | |     |   | |     |   This is a request for proposal for development of a web site   | | addition with   | |     | the   | |     |   features   | |     |     as described below.   | |     |   | |     |     The web host will support ColdFusion versions 5.0 or CFMX 6.1 on   | | either   | |     | OS   | |     |     platforms of Win2k, Win2003, or RedHat Linux/Apache 2.x. Database   | |     | supported:   | |     |     either MySQL or SQL2k.  Thus the contractor may develop on a   | | platform   | |     | he/she   | |     |   is  most comfortable with. Hosting is NOT to be included in any   | | proposal.   | |     |   Advance   | |     |   payments will not be  considered without first reviewing and   | | approving a   | |     |   detailed design plan.   | |     |   | |     |     Proposals should include the total number of hours to develop,   | | price and   | |     |   preferably be  split up into milestones, in order to receive payment   | | upon   | |     |   delivery and   | |     |     acceptance of the milestone.  Wireframe or non-functioning   | | prototype   | |     | should be   | |     |   submitted  Payment can be made via PayPal, or snail mail,   | | Contractors'   | |     |   preference.  It   | |     |   will be understood that final pricing cannot be determined until   | | final   | |     | approval   | |     |   of the design plan proposed.  All source code, documentation and   | |     | intellectual   | |     |   property will become the sole property of the client upon final   | | payment.   | |     |   | |     |     Statement of work:   | |     |     The kind of site that I am looking for is similar to the one here   | |     |   http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/. My people will need to   | | be   | |     | approved   | |     |   first before they can be accepted. This will keep anyone who has a   | | foul   | |     | mouth   | |     |   or any other B.S. out because I would be able to restrict their   | |     | membership. I   | |     |   am not only looking to make it a discussion group but post old   | |     |     photos, articles and info that will be seen  and discussed. The   | | yahoo   | |     | group   | |     |   that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away from   | | what I   | |     |   envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more than they   | |     | already do.   | |     |   I would have the original Hodaka guys also  participating in open   | |     | discussions   | |     |   here. I   | |     |   would hope to be able to use their  email address's also for mass   | | mailings   | |     | for   | |     |   new items or products. I have a   | |     |   good friend who writes for motorcycle magazines. I would like for   | | him to   | |     | be   | |     |   able to have a column with the ability to add or change a photo or   | | two for   | |     | his   | |     |   article.  I would have him access so he could upload or change it as   | | often   | |     | as he   | |     |   likes.   | |     |   | |     |   The primary web site is at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com   | |     |   | |     |     Address information requests and proposals to   | | proposals@clckdoug.com   | |     |   | |     |   | |     |   ======================================   | |     |   Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!   | |     |   For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com   | |     |   Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP   | |     |   ======================================   | |     |   If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!   | |     |   | |     |   ----- Original Message -----   | |     |   From: "Larry C. Lyons" <lyons@lyonsmorris.com>   | |     |   To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com>   | |     |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:36 PM   | |     |   Subject: Re: CF job location   | |     |   | |     |   | Doug,   | |     |   |   | |     |   | Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for   | | CF-related   | |     | projects.   | |     |   |   | |     |   | larry   | |     |   |   | |     |   | >Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a module   | | to be   | |     | added   | |     |   to   | |     |   | >an existing web site, and actually received two proposals, and 88   | |     | resumes.   | |     |   | >Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to provide   | | what   | |     | the   | |     |   | >client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is entirely   | |     |   | >database driven.   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he is more   | |     | interested in   | |     |   | >getting the module built with the functionality and look and feel   | |     | described   | |     |   in   | |     |   | >the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon milestones,   | | or if   | |     | it is   | |     |   | >really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is AAA.   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this list, who   | | are   | |     |   | >interested   | |     |   | >in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal.   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is only a   | | general   | |     |   | >statement,   | |     |   | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through which the   | | exact   | |     |   | >specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final fixed   | | price be   | |     |   | >determined by either side.  The client is as interested as the   | |     | developer in   | |     |   | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what he   | | wants,   | |     |   | >but not being   | |     |   | >technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to get   | | there.   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >======================================   | |     |   | >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!   | |     |   | >For hosting solutions   | |     | <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com   | |     |   | >Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP   | |     |   | >======================================   | |     |   | >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >----- Original Message -----   | |     |   | >From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <ny5i@adelphia.net>   | |     |   | >To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com>   | |     |   | >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:52 PM   | |     |   | >Subject: RE: CF job location   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >| They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that they keep   | | the   | |     |   | >| bidding process closed to other users.   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >| After bidding on several different projects I was selected for   | | one,   | |     | only   | |     |   | >| to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on the wrong   | | link   | |     | and   | |     |   | >| accidentally accepted the wrong bid".   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >| Gotta love technology.   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >| Hatton   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >| -----Original Message-----   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >| Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM   | |     |   | >| To: CF-Jobs-Talk   | |     |   | >| Subject: RE: CF job location   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >| Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've looked at it   | |     | briefly   | |     |   | >| but haven't tried using it yet.   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >|   | |     |   | >   | |     |   | >[   | |     |   |   | |     |   | |     |   | |

Doug White isn't a bad guy. Just very opinionated. check out some of his conversations on CF-Community. For someone of his age, he's fairly flexible. larry At 04:41 PM 11/24/2003, you wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

  While I can't claim to know Doug on a personal level, he is a regular contributor on a bunch of lists that I am also on.  He appears to bea reasonable guy.  I'm not sure what you expect to gain by flaming him. At 01:41 PM 11/24/2003 -0800, you wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ditto!   _____ Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:59 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: CF job location   While I can't claim to know Doug on a personal level, he is a regular contributor on a bunch of lists that I am also on.  He appears to bea reasonable guy.  I'm not sure what you expect to gain by flaming him. At 01:41 PM 11/24/2003 -0800, you wrote: >This guy Doug sounds like a real charmer.  I can imagine that everyone is >just chewing at the bit to start working with him. > >   | As the hosting provider for this client, I do not do the development , >but >   | recommend outsourcers for them.  This has been very successful for both >me and >   | for independent developers who wish to supplement their income. >   | >   | That said, I do not believe the site addition needs to be written from >   scratch, >   | but I am leaving that up to the proposer.  The request allowed for wide >   latitude >   | in development, in order to provide the developer with the route they >felt >   most >   | comfortable with, not as a requirement that it "all being done from >scratch." >   | The important issue is that the client receives something they feel will ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- regular ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- <http://www.fortunasausage.com/aroundthekitchentable/>http://www.fortunasaus age.com/aroundthekitchentable/ >   | and a signup page for  list server, as well as an archive of articles, >is not >   a >   | difficult or technologically advanced project, but it seems to be really ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Further, >the >   | thinking is that this project will not make any developer rich, nor is >it >   | expected to be give-away work.  The budget is "whatever it takes to give ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- be >   | addressed to proposals@clickdoug.com >   | >   | >   | ====================================== >   | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! >   | > <http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm>http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter .cfm >   | For hosting solutions <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I >know >   | | there's a bunch of good ones in the $300 to $500 range that do >everything >   | | Yahoo Groups does and more.  There's no way any of us developers, who ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- build >one >   | | from scratch - I can offer him my consulting services and will submit ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- required ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- <http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm>http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter .cfm ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- budget ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- there's ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- you ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- a ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- one >here >   | > |     | > <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/.>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/ group/Hodaka/. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- old >   | |     |     photos, articles and info that will be seen  and discussed. >The >   | | yahoo >   | |     | group >   | |     |   that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away >from >   | | what I >   | |     |   envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more than ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- like ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- change ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- proposals, ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- is ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- only >a >   | | general >   | |     |   | >statement, >   | |     |   | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through which ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- as >the >   | |     | developer in >   | |     |   | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what he ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- they ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- the ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- looked ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----   _____  

Personally, I don't see what is wrong with listing. Doug is spelling out exactly what the client wants and expects. Honestly, he is giving you the key to open this particular door of oppurtunity. If I was still doing cf work, I'd probably jump on it. (I've been doing asp.net for the last year and a half, so I figure I'd be a little rusty at cf right now..) -g ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Resume: Doug is the user group leader for the San Antonio Macromedia & ColdFusion User group.  http://samcfug.org Doug is a retired database developer for the DoD, and owns Web Page Associates at http://www.clickdoug.com. Doug provides Free hosting for Macromedia User groups, and offers hosting discounts to user group members http://www.clickdoug.com/clients.cfm. (not a complete listing) Doug also maintains a number of List servers with anti-spam/anti-virus filtering. currently supporting over 88 domains.  His services may be compared to Brightmail, and other filtering technologies and services. Doug's hosting business supports a variety of technologies, including Operating systems Win2k, Win3000 Ent. and Linux.  Technologies supported are DOT NET, ASP, PHP,  PERL and, of course CF 5.0 and CF 6.1.  By not supporting only a limited technology set, he is able to offer a broad-based support for web development technologies. Doug is an official Microsoft Channel Partner. A simple email to any of his clients will result in satisfying any inquiry as to the level of service and business ethics employed by Web Page Associates. Several are independent developers on a variety of platforms. Doug participates on a number of web development related talk lists, and in a multi-topic list, he may be expected to take either side of an argument or discussion for the sole purpose of breaking an opinion logjam, and to urge participants to think for themselves. He does however, take his network, anti-spam,and network consulting obligations very seriously. When publishing a Request for Proposal, that is exactly what is requested, a proposal.  Should the clients' wants and needs not be explicitly described or provided for, a dialog in entered by which a complete understanding is reached between the contractor and the client.  This is the method employed to avoid scope creep, and to provide a product acceptable to the client, while earning the contractor a reasonable profit. Only after the understanding is reached can a final price dependably be determined.   Once this point is reached a contract offer is made, and Doug is in a position of guaranteeing payment to the developer.  Additionally, the developer is listed on the Web Page Associates Partner page, and his services are then given free advertising. Should any person who is seeking to do development, not appreciate this business methodology, they are, of course permitted to pass on the opportunity.  No one is expected to give away anything, especially their precious hours of labor.  By the same reasoning, Web Page Associates is not obligated to commit to spending client funds for an unusable or out-of-spec applications. ====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | Personally, I don't see what is wrong with listing. Doug is spelling out | exactly what the client wants and expects. Honestly, he is giving you the | key to open this particular door of oppurtunity. If I was still doing cf | work, I'd probably jump on it. (I've been doing asp.net for the last year | and a half, so I figure I'd be a little rusty at cf right now..) | | -g | | | >From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com> | >Reply-To: cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com | >To: CF-Jobs-Talk <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >Subject: RE: CF job location | >Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:41:20 -0800 | > | >This guy Doug sounds like a real charmer.  I can imagine that everyone is | >just chewing at the bit to start working with him. | > | >  -----Original Message----- | | >Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 10:05 AM | >To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >Subject: Fw: CF job location | > | > | >   | As the hosting provider for this client, I do not do the development , | >but | >   | recommend outsourcers for them.  This has been very successful for | >both | >me and | >   | for independent developers who wish to supplement their income. | >   | | >   | That said, I do not believe the site addition needs to be written from | >   scratch, | >   | but I am leaving that up to the proposer.  The request allowed for | >wide | >   latitude | >   | in development, in order to provide the developer with the route they | >felt | >   most | >   | comfortable with, not as a requirement that it "all being done from | >scratch." | >   | The important issue is that the client receives something they feel | >will | >be an | >   | asset to their main web site at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com | >   | | >   | I actually cannot see why this relatively simple opportunity for some | >extra | >   work | >   | is causing so much pain for those who have been complaining on a | >regular | >basis | >   | at the lack of available work.  I can only assume that they are just | >typing | >   | words with little meaning or thought behind them. | >   | | >   | Implementation of a moderated forum such as that at | >   | http://www.fortunasausage.com/aroundthekitchentable/ | >   | and a signup page for  list server, as well as an archive of articles, | >is not | >   a | >   | difficult or technologically advanced project, but it seems to be | >really | >   scaring | >   | off developers who seem to be more interested in quantity of dollars, | >instead | >   of | >   | reasonable pay for effort expended.  If the proposer prefers to | >configure | >   | existing forum applications, so be it.  It must, however, be | >maintainable by | >   the | >   | client, as is the main web site via an administration section. | >Further, | >the | >   | thinking is that this project will not make any developer rich, nor is | >it | >   | expected to be give-away work.  The budget is "whatever it takes to | >give | >the | >   | client what he wants."  It is, however, an opportunity for some extra | >holiday | >   | dollars for someone who wants it.  The project will be placed with | >domestic | >   | developers, by request of the client. | >   | | >   | As usual, and requests for additional information, details, etc. may | >be | >   | addressed to proposals@clickdoug.com | >   | | >   | | >   | ====================================== | >   | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm | >   | For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >   | ====================================== | >   | If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | >   | | >   | ----- Original Message ----- | >   | From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com> | >   | To: <proposals@clickdoug.com> | >   | Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:50 AM | >   | Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | | >   | | >   | | Hi Doug, | >   | | | >   | |   Have you looked at the several package forum products out there? | >I | >know | >   | | there's a bunch of good ones in the $300 to $500 range that do | >everything | >   | | Yahoo Groups does and more.  There's no way any of us developers, | >who | >build | >   | | a custom product from scratch, are going to be able to compete with | >this | >   | | price.  Plus several of these products have been around for years, | >gone | >   | | through several iterations, and have a "burn-in time" which would | >insure a | >   | | more reliable product for your client. | >   | | | >   | |   ASP Playground is an ASP based form product I've used in the past | >and am | >   | | very happy with. | >   | | | >   | |   If your client still feels that they have something unique enough | >that | >   | | they can't use one of these packaged products, and would like to | >build | >one | >   | | from scratch - I can offer him my consulting services and will | >submit | >a | >   | | proposal in that regard.  But I can assure you that this will be | >atleast a | >   | | months work. | >   | | | >   | |   Best regards, | >   | | | >   | |   Ed. | >   | |     -----Original Message----- | >   | | | >   | |     Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:52 AM | >   | |     To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >   | |     Subject: Re: CF job location | >   | | | >   | | | >   | |     The project is still open, and the budget is "Whatever is | >required | >to | >   | | get what | >   | |     we want"  (exact quote from the client) The cost of the existing | >web | >   | | site was in | >   | |     the neighborhood of $5 K | >   | | | >   | |     It does not take much effort to click on the links in the RFQ to | >see | >   | | what is | >   | |     desired, and not much more effort to do a couple of screen | >captures to | >   | | go with | >   | |     your proposal. If you cannot be bothered to put out some effort | >and that | >   | | is just | >   | |     to much for you, then do not respond.  It is really that easy. | >   | | | >   | |     Like was posted before, a number of respondents responded only | >with a | >   | | resume - | >   | |     which is not considered a response.  The two that did provide | >proposals, | >   | | did not | >   | |     appear to be willing to give the client what he wants. | >   | | | >   | |     As their hosting provider, I can vouch for prompt payment having | >been | >   | | made to | >   | |     the other developers who have done work for them. | >   | | | >   | |     What more can I say? | >   | | | >   | |     ====================================== | >   | |     Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | |     http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm | >   | |     For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | |     Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >   | |     ====================================== | >   | |     If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | >   | | | >   | |     ----- Original Message ----- | >   | |     From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com> | >   | |     To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >   | |     Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM | >   | |     Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | | | >   | |     | I don't know about others, but I shyed away from submitting a | >proposal | >   | |     | because it asked for a "prototype to be submitted" along side. | >Don't | >   | | get my | >   | |     | wrong, I'm willing to earn the business of a potential client. | >But I | >   | | want | >   | |     | to know (a) that they have money to spend, (b) what their | >budget | >is | >   | | and (c) | >   | |     | that they're still looking for candidates.  Like you said 90 | >people | >   | | already | >   | |     | through their hat in the right.  How is one to know that a | >decision | >   | | hasn't | >   | |     | been made already?  I haven't seen a "project closed" message | >appear | >   | | on this | >   | |     | project yet, and rarely see these at all on cf-jobs. | >   | |     | | >   | |     | I know you want to get the most bang for the buck.  Bet | >there's | >   | | nothing | >   | |     | wrong with saying "client has $10k - $15k budgeted for this | >project." | >   | | I | >   | |     | think this would increase the amount of quality proposals you | >receive. | >   | |     | | >   | |     | By the way, if this project hasn't been closed, how much do | >you | >have | >   | |     | budgeted for this project? | >   | |     |   -----Original Message----- | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:46 PM | >   | |     |   To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >   | |     |   Subject: Re: CF job location | >   | |     | | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   This is a request for proposal for development of a web site | >   | | addition with | >   | |     | the | >   | |     |   features | >   | |     |     as described below. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     The web host will support ColdFusion versions 5.0 or CFMX | >6.1 on | >   | | either | >   | |     | OS | >   | |     |     platforms of Win2k, Win2003, or RedHat Linux/Apache 2.x. | >Database | >   | |     | supported: | >   | |     |     either MySQL or SQL2k.  Thus the contractor may develop on | >a | >   | | platform | >   | |     | he/she | >   | |     |   is  most comfortable with. Hosting is NOT to be included in | >any | >   | | proposal. | >   | |     |   Advance | >   | |     |   payments will not be  considered without first reviewing and | >   | | approving a | >   | |     |   detailed design plan. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     Proposals should include the total number of hours to | >develop, | >   | | price and | >   | |     |   preferably be  split up into milestones, in order to receive | >payment | >   | | upon | >   | |     |   delivery and | >   | |     |     acceptance of the milestone.  Wireframe or non-functioning | >   | | prototype | >   | |     | should be | >   | |     |   submitted  Payment can be made via PayPal, or snail mail, | >   | | Contractors' | >   | |     |   preference.  It | >   | |     |   will be understood that final pricing cannot be determined | >until | >   | | final | >   | |     | approval | >   | |     |   of the design plan proposed.  All source code, documentation | >and | >   | |     | intellectual | >   | |     |   property will become the sole property of the client upon | >final | >   | | payment. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     Statement of work: | >   | |     |     The kind of site that I am looking for is similar to the | >one | >here | >   | |     |   http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/. My people will | >need to | >   | | be | >   | |     | approved | >   | |     |   first before they can be accepted. This will keep anyone who | >has a | >   | | foul | >   | |     | mouth | >   | |     |   or any other B.S. out because I would be able to restrict | >their | >   | |     | membership. I | >   | |     |   am not only looking to make it a discussion group but post | >old | >   | |     |     photos, articles and info that will be seen  and | >discussed. | >The | >   | | yahoo | >   | |     | group | >   | |     |   that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away | >from | >   | | what I | >   | |     |   envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more | >than | >they | >   | |     | already do. | >   | |     |   I would have the original Hodaka guys also  participating in | >open | >   | |     | discussions | >   | |     |   here. I | >   | |     |   would hope to be able to use their  email address's also for | >mass | >   | | mailings | >   | |     | for | >   | |     |   new items or products. I have a | >   | |     |   good friend who writes for motorcycle magazines. I would | >like | >for | >   | | him to | >   | |     | be | >   | |     |   able to have a column with the ability to add or change a | >photo or | >   | | two for | >   | |     | his | >   | |     |   article.  I would have him access so he could upload or | >change | >it as | >   | | often | >   | |     | as he | >   | |     |   likes. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   The primary web site is at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     Address information requests and proposals to | >   | | proposals@clckdoug.com | >   | |     | | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   ====================================== | >   | |     |   Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | |     |   For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | |     |   Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >   | |     |   ====================================== | >   | |     |   If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   ----- Original Message ----- | >   | |     |   From: "Larry C. Lyons" <lyons@lyonsmorris.com> | >   | |     |   To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >   | |     |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:36 PM | >   | |     |   Subject: Re: CF job location | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   | Doug, | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     |   | Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for | >   | | CF-related | >   | |     | projects. | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     |   | larry | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     |   | >Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a | >module | >   | | to be | >   | |     | added | >   | |     |   to | >   | |     |   | >an existing web site, and actually received two | >proposals, | >and 88 | >   | |     | resumes. | >   | |     |   | >Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to | >provide | >   | | what | >   | |     | the | >   | |     |   | >client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is | >entirely | >   | |     |   | >database driven. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he | >is | >more | >   | |     | interested in | >   | |     |   | >getting the module built with the functionality and look | >and feel | >   | |     | described | >   | |     |   in | >   | |     |   | >the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon | >milestones, | >   | | or if | >   | |     | it is | >   | |     |   | >really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is | >AAA. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this | >list, who | >   | | are | >   | |     |   | >interested | >   | |     |   | >in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is | >only | >a | >   | | general | >   | |     |   | >statement, | >   | |     |   | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through | >which | >the | >   | | exact | >   | |     |   | >specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final | >fixed | >   | | price be | >   | |     |   | >determined by either side.  The client is as interested | >as | >the | >   | |     | developer in | >   | |     |   | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what | >he | >   | | wants, | >   | |     |   | >but not being | >   | |     |   | >technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to | >get | >   | | there. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >====================================== | >   | |     |   | >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | |     |   | >For hosting solutions | >   | |     | <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | |     |   | >Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and | >PHP | >   | |     |   | >====================================== | >   | |     |   | >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't | >done! | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >----- Original Message ----- | >   | |     |   | >From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <ny5i@adelphia.net> | >   | |     |   | >To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >   | |     |   | >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:52 PM | >   | |     |   | >Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >| They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that | >they | >keep | >   | | the | >   | |     |   | >| bidding process closed to other users. | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| After bidding on several different projects I was | >selected for | >   | | one, | >   | |     | only | >   | |     |   | >| to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on | >the | >wrong | >   | | link | >   | |     | and | >   | |     |   | >| accidentally accepted the wrong bid". | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Gotta love technology. | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Hatton | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| -----Original Message----- | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM | >   | |     |   | >| To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >   | |     |   | >| Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've | >looked | >at it | >   | |     | briefly | >   | |     |   | >| but haven't tried using it yet. | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >[ | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     | | >   | |     | | >   | | | > | > |

I hear that referring to yourself in the third person is the first step towards insanity :) Resume: Doug is the user group leader for the San Antonio Macromedia & ColdFusion User group.  http://samcfug.org Doug is a retired database developer for the DoD, and owns Web Page Associates at http://www.clickdoug.com. Doug provides Free hosting for Macromedia User groups, and offers hosting discounts to user group members http://www.clickdoug.com/clients.cfm. (not a complete listing) Doug also maintains a number of List servers with anti-spam/anti-virus filtering. currently supporting over 88 domains.  His services may be compared to Brightmail, and other filtering technologies and services. Doug's hosting business supports a variety of technologies, including Operating systems Win2k, Win3000 Ent. and Linux.  Technologies supported are DOT NET, ASP, PHP,  PERL and, of course CF 5.0 and CF 6.1.  By not supporting only a limited technology set, he is able to offer a broad-based support for web development technologies. Doug is an official Microsoft Channel Partner. A simple email to any of his clients will result in satisfying any inquiry as to the level of service and business ethics employed by Web Page Associates. Several are independent developers on a variety of platforms. Doug participates on a number of web development related talk lists, and in a multi-topic list, he may be expected to take either side of an argument or discussion for the sole purpose of breaking an opinion logjam, and to urge participants to think for themselves. He does however, take his network, anti-spam,and network consulting obligations very seriously. When publishing a Request for Proposal, that is exactly what is requested, a proposal.  Should the clients' wants and needs not be explicitly described or provided for, a dialog in entered by which a complete understanding is reached between the contractor and the client.  This is the method employed to avoid scope creep, and to provide a product acceptable to the client, while earning the contractor a reasonable profit. Only after the understanding is reached can a final price dependably be determined.   Once this point is reached a contract offer is made, and Doug is in a position of guaranteeing payment to the developer.  Additionally, the developer is listed on the Web Page Associates Partner page, and his services are then given free advertising. Should any person who is seeking to do development, not appreciate this business methodology, they are, of course permitted to pass on the opportunity.  No one is expected to give away anything, especially their precious hours of labor. By the same reasoning, Web Page Associates is not obligated to commit to spending client funds for an unusable or out-of-spec applications. ====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | Personally, I don't see what is wrong with listing. Doug is spelling out | exactly what the client wants and expects. Honestly, he is giving you the | key to open this particular door of oppurtunity. If I was still doing cf | work, I'd probably jump on it. (I've been doing asp.net for the last year | and a half, so I figure I'd be a little rusty at cf right now..) | | -g | | | >From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com> | >Reply-To: cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com | >To: CF-Jobs-Talk <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >Subject: RE: CF job location | >Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:41:20 -0800 | > | >This guy Doug sounds like a real charmer.  I can imagine that everyone is | >just chewing at the bit to start working with him. | > | >  -----Original Message----- | | >Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 10:05 AM | >To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >Subject: Fw: CF job location | > | > | >   | As the hosting provider for this client, I do not do the development , | >but | >   | recommend outsourcers for them.  This has been very successful for | >both | >me and | >   | for independent developers who wish to supplement their income. | >   | | >   | That said, I do not believe the site addition needs to be written from | >   scratch, | >   | but I am leaving that up to the proposer.  The request allowed for | >wide | >   latitude | >   | in development, in order to provide the developer with the route they | >felt | >   most | >   | comfortable with, not as a requirement that it "all being done from | >scratch." | >   | The important issue is that the client receives something they feel | >will | >be an | >   | asset to their main web site at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com | >   | | >   | I actually cannot see why this relatively simple opportunity for some | >extra | >   work | >   | is causing so much pain for those who have been complaining on a | >regular | >basis | >   | at the lack of available work.  I can only assume that they are just | >typing | >   | words with little meaning or thought behind them. | >   | | >   | Implementation of a moderated forum such as that at | >   | http://www.fortunasausage.com/aroundthekitchentable/ | >   | and a signup page for  list server, as well as an archive of articles, | >is not | >   a | >   | difficult or technologically advanced project, but it seems to be | >really | >   scaring | >   | off developers who seem to be more interested in quantity of dollars, | >instead | >   of | >   | reasonable pay for effort expended.  If the proposer prefers to | >configure | >   | existing forum applications, so be it.  It must, however, be | >maintainable by | >   the | >   | client, as is the main web site via an administration section. | >Further, | >the | >   | thinking is that this project will not make any developer rich, nor is | >it | >   | expected to be give-away work.  The budget is "whatever it takes to | >give | >the | >   | client what he wants."  It is, however, an opportunity for some extra | >holiday | >   | dollars for someone who wants it.  The project will be placed with | >domestic | >   | developers, by request of the client. | >   | | >   | As usual, and requests for additional information, details, etc. may | >be | >   | addressed to proposals@clickdoug.com | >   | | >   | | >   | ====================================== | >   | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm | >   | For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >   | ====================================== | >   | If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | >   | | >   | ----- Original Message ----- | >   | From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com> | >   | To: <proposals@clickdoug.com> | >   | Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:50 AM | >   | Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | | >   | | >   | | Hi Doug, | >   | | | >   | |   Have you looked at the several package forum products out there? | >I | >know | >   | | there's a bunch of good ones in the $300 to $500 range that do | >everything | >   | | Yahoo Groups does and more.  There's no way any of us developers, | >who | >build | >   | | a custom product from scratch, are going to be able to compete with | >this | >   | | price.  Plus several of these products have been around for years, | >gone | >   | | through several iterations, and have a "burn-in time" which would | >insure a | >   | | more reliable product for your client. | >   | | | >   | |   ASP Playground is an ASP based form product I've used in the past | >and am | >   | | very happy with. | >   | | | >   | |   If your client still feels that they have something unique enough | >that | >   | | they can't use one of these packaged products, and would like to | >build | >one | >   | | from scratch - I can offer him my consulting services and will | >submit | >a | >   | | proposal in that regard.  But I can assure you that this will be | >atleast a | >   | | months work. | >   | | | >   | |   Best regards, | >   | | | >   | |   Ed. | >   | |     -----Original Message----- | >   | | | >   | |     Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:52 AM | >   | |     To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >   | |     Subject: Re: CF job location | >   | | | >   | | | >   | |     The project is still open, and the budget is "Whatever is | >required | >to | >   | | get what | >   | |     we want"  (exact quote from the client) The cost of the existing | >web | >   | | site was in | >   | |     the neighborhood of $5 K | >   | | | >   | |     It does not take much effort to click on the links in the RFQ to | >see | >   | | what is | >   | |     desired, and not much more effort to do a couple of screen | >captures to | >   | | go with | >   | |     your proposal. If you cannot be bothered to put out some effort | >and that | >   | | is just | >   | |     to much for you, then do not respond.  It is really that easy. | >   | | | >   | |     Like was posted before, a number of respondents responded only | >with a | >   | | resume - | >   | |     which is not considered a response.  The two that did provide | >proposals, | >   | | did not | >   | |     appear to be willing to give the client what he wants. | >   | | | >   | |     As their hosting provider, I can vouch for prompt payment having | >been | >   | | made to | >   | |     the other developers who have done work for them. | >   | | | >   | |     What more can I say? | >   | | | >   | |     ====================================== | >   | |     Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | |     http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm | >   | |     For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | |     Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >   | |     ====================================== | >   | |     If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | >   | | | >   | |     ----- Original Message ----- | >   | |     From: "Edward Suyer" <esuyer@fastsoftwaresolutions.com> | >   | |     To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >   | |     Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM | >   | |     Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | | | >   | |     | I don't know about others, but I shyed away from submitting a | >proposal | >   | |     | because it asked for a "prototype to be submitted" along side. | >Don't | >   | | get my | >   | |     | wrong, I'm willing to earn the business of a potential client. | >But I | >   | | want | >   | |     | to know (a) that they have money to spend, (b) what their | >budget | >is | >   | | and (c) | >   | |     | that they're still looking for candidates.  Like you said 90 | >people | >   | | already | >   | |     | through their hat in the right.  How is one to know that a | >decision | >   | | hasn't | >   | |     | been made already?  I haven't seen a "project closed" message | >appear | >   | | on this | >   | |     | project yet, and rarely see these at all on cf-jobs. | >   | |     | | >   | |     | I know you want to get the most bang for the buck.  Bet | >there's | >   | | nothing | >   | |     | wrong with saying "client has $10k - $15k budgeted for this | >project." | >   | | I | >   | |     | think this would increase the amount of quality proposals you | >receive. | >   | |     | | >   | |     | By the way, if this project hasn't been closed, how much do | >you | >have | >   | |     | budgeted for this project? | >   | |     |   -----Original Message----- | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:46 PM | >   | |     |   To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >   | |     |   Subject: Re: CF job location | >   | |     | | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   This is a request for proposal for development of a web site | >   | | addition with | >   | |     | the | >   | |     |   features | >   | |     |     as described below. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     The web host will support ColdFusion versions 5.0 or CFMX | >6.1 on | >   | | either | >   | |     | OS | >   | |     |     platforms of Win2k, Win2003, or RedHat Linux/Apache 2.x. | >Database | >   | |     | supported: | >   | |     |     either MySQL or SQL2k.  Thus the contractor may develop on | >a | >   | | platform | >   | |     | he/she | >   | |     |   is  most comfortable with. Hosting is NOT to be included in | >any | >   | | proposal. | >   | |     |   Advance | >   | |     |   payments will not be  considered without first reviewing and | >   | | approving a | >   | |     |   detailed design plan. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     Proposals should include the total number of hours to | >develop, | >   | | price and | >   | |     |   preferably be  split up into milestones, in order to receive | >payment | >   | | upon | >   | |     |   delivery and | >   | |     |     acceptance of the milestone.  Wireframe or non-functioning | >   | | prototype | >   | |     | should be | >   | |     |   submitted  Payment can be made via PayPal, or snail mail, | >   | | Contractors' | >   | |     |   preference.  It | >   | |     |   will be understood that final pricing cannot be determined | >until | >   | | final | >   | |     | approval | >   | |     |   of the design plan proposed.  All source code, documentation | >and | >   | |     | intellectual | >   | |     |   property will become the sole property of the client upon | >final | >   | | payment. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     Statement of work: | >   | |     |     The kind of site that I am looking for is similar to the | >one | >here | >   | |     |   http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka/. My people will | >need to | >   | | be | >   | |     | approved | >   | |     |   first before they can be accepted. This will keep anyone who | >has a | >   | | foul | >   | |     | mouth | >   | |     |   or any other B.S. out because I would be able to restrict | >their | >   | |     | membership. I | >   | |     |   am not only looking to make it a discussion group but post | >old | >   | |     |     photos, articles and info that will be seen  and | >discussed. | >The | >   | | yahoo | >   | |     | group | >   | |     |   that  you see above started out that way but has gotten away | >from | >   | | what I | >   | |     |   envision. This would also draw people  to  my site   more | >than | >they | >   | |     | already do. | >   | |     |   I would have the original Hodaka guys also  participating in | >open | >   | |     | discussions | >   | |     |   here. I | >   | |     |   would hope to be able to use their  email address's also for | >mass | >   | | mailings | >   | |     | for | >   | |     |   new items or products. I have a | >   | |     |   good friend who writes for motorcycle magazines. I would | >like | >for | >   | | him to | >   | |     | be | >   | |     |   able to have a column with the ability to add or change a | >photo or | >   | | two for | >   | |     | his | >   | |     |   article.  I would have him access so he could upload or | >change | >it as | >   | | often | >   | |     | as he | >   | |     |   likes. | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   The primary web site is at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com | >   | |     | | >   | |     |     Address information requests and proposals to | >   | | proposals@clckdoug.com | >   | |     | | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   ====================================== | >   | |     |   Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | |     |   For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | |     |   Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | >   | |     |   ====================================== | >   | |     |   If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   ----- Original Message ----- | >   | |     |   From: "Larry C. Lyons" <lyons@lyonsmorris.com> | >   | |     |   To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >   | |     |   Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:36 PM | >   | |     |   Subject: Re: CF job location | >   | |     | | >   | |     |   | Doug, | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     |   | Could you repost it here. This might be a good venue for | >   | | CF-related | >   | |     | projects. | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     |   | larry | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     |   | >Interesting that I posted a "Request for Proposal" for a | >module | >   | | to be | >   | |     | added | >   | |     |   to | >   | |     |   | >an existing web site, and actually received two | >proposals, | >and 88 | >   | |     | resumes. | >   | |     |   | >Neither of the two proposals indicated any willingness to | >provide | >   | | what | >   | |     | the | >   | |     |   | >client wants.  The existing site is done in CF and is | >entirely | >   | |     |   | >database driven. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >The resumes are actually not useful to my client, as he | >is | >more | >   | |     | interested in | >   | |     |   | >getting the module built with the functionality and look | >and feel | >   | |     | described | >   | |     |   in | >   | |     |   | >the request.  He pays upon completion of agreed upon | >milestones, | >   | | or if | >   | |     | it is | >   | |     |   | >really short term, on completion.   His credit rating is | >AAA. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >I am guessing that not many of the subscribers to this | >list, who | >   | | are | >   | |     |   | >interested | >   | |     |   | >in "extra" work, know much about how to do a proposal. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >Just for those who might be interested, a proposal is | >only | >a | >   | | general | >   | |     |   | >statement, | >   | |     |   | >and is used to open a dialog with the client through | >which | >the | >   | | exact | >   | |     |   | >specifications can be determined.  Only then can a final | >fixed | >   | | price be | >   | |     |   | >determined by either side.  The client is as interested | >as | >the | >   | |     | developer in | >   | |     |   | >avoiding scope creep, and pretty well knows exactly what | >he | >   | | wants, | >   | |     |   | >but not being | >   | |     |   | >technical, he leaves it up to the developer as to how to | >get | >   | | there. | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >====================================== | >   | |     |   | >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | >   | |     |   | >For hosting solutions | >   | |     | <http://www.clickdoug.com>http://www.clickdoug.com | >   | |     |   | >Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and | >PHP | >   | |     |   | >====================================== | >   | |     |   | >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't | >done! | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >----- Original Message ----- | >   | |     |   | >From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <ny5i@adelphia.net> | >   | |     |   | >To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" <cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com> | >   | |     |   | >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:52 PM | >   | |     |   | >Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >| They're not too bad for a free site.  I do like that | >they | >keep | >   | | the | >   | |     |   | >| bidding process closed to other users. | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| After bidding on several different projects I was | >selected for | >   | | one, | >   | |     | only | >   | |     |   | >| to get an email from the buyer saying, "I clicked on | >the | >wrong | >   | | link | >   | |     | and | >   | |     |   | >| accidentally accepted the wrong bid". | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Gotta love technology. | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Hatton | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| -----Original Message----- | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:15 PM | >   | |     |   | >| To: CF-Jobs-Talk | >   | |     |   | >| Subject: RE: CF job location | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| Has anyone had better luck on rentacoder.com? I've | >looked | >at it | >   | |     | briefly | >   | |     |   | >| but haven't tried using it yet. | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | >| | >   | |     |   | > | >   | |     |   | >[ | >   | |     |   | | >   | |     | | >   | |     | | >   | | | > | > |   _____  

At 07:06 PM 11/24/2003, you wrote: >I hear that referring to yourself in the third person is the first step >towards insanity :) Not quite. As an ABD (all but dissertation) in psych- I don't think Doug approaches insanity. Mind you there are times I think that this industry is nuts. larry

! | I hear that referring to yourself in the third person is the first step | towards insanity :) | I think you may be right!  :-)

THIS LIST IS STARTING TO GET GOOD! GO DOUG!

Depends on your definition of "good", Paul ;) In all honesty I'm getting frustrated but the poor business practices of headhunters and companies advertising positions today.  90% of the time they don't even take the time to let you know when you're not selected as a candidate for a position. Oh well, back to practice! Hatton THIS LIST IS STARTING TO GET GOOD! GO DOUG!    _____   [HYPERLINK "http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:11"Todays Threads] [HYPERLINK "http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:11:1647"This Message] [HYPERLINK "http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:11"Subscription] [HYPERLINK "http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=2581.2460.11 "Fast Unsubscribe] [HYPERLINK "http://www.houseoffusion.com/signin/"User Settings]    _____   HYPERLINK "http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=37" \n --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003