Why not use 64-bit as first distro?

In order to not clutter the other thread, my question to David Henry and everyone else, is why not try a 64-bit distro as your first Linux experience? I used 64-bit RedHat ES3 on an Intel Itanium a few years ago where there was no 32-bit backward compatibility. Other than compiling a few programs on a 64-bit compiler, I saw no differences between the 64-bit and any 32-bit distro I'd used to date. I use 64-bit Ubuntu at home and had no problems installing CF, et. al. on it either. What problems would you expect a new linux user to run into dealing with 64-bit vs. 32-bit? Curious, Adrian

Agreed.  I cut my teeth on Slackware and Debian but quickly moved to Ubuntu 64 and have loved it.  Also curious why one would recommend not using it. Dave On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Adrian Moreno <amoreno@iknowkungfoo.com>wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Adrian, I discourage /inexperienced /users from jumping on 64 bit because the directions for CF, Java, Apache, MySQL, and most others are written 32-bit first and 64-bit as an afterthought.  The smallest difference in path, url, version, or command arguments can leave the new user completely derailed from their tutorial in unfamiliar waters.  With a CLI and an error message the user will either become a Linux guru very quickly or will declare that all Linux sucks and give up. If you need 4GB+ memory, go for 64bit.  If you need 100% accurate directions without extra steps because you've never done this Linux thing before, use 32bit. ...then again, perhaps the day has finally come to leave 32bit behind. David Adrian Moreno wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Only point I could see is if you didn't have the big enterprise version of CF, standard doesn't come in 64 bit, only 32 - which I think is stupid, but whatever. Aside from that, every distro has 64 bit versions of apache, mysql, and java - so it's not really such a big deal anymore. Where it gets tricky is when you try to compile your own stuff, even then it's not that big of a deal. -- Jeff Schoby Unix/Network Admin City of Columbia, Missouri 573.874.6320 >>> David Henry <davidhenry@coldfusionpowered.com> 4/27/2009 11:05 AM >>> Adrian, I discourage /inexperienced /users from jumping on 64 bit because the directions for CF, Java, Apache, MySQL, and most others are written 32-bit first and 64-bit as an afterthought.  The smallest difference in path, url, version, or command arguments can leave the new user completely derailed from their tutorial in unfamiliar waters.  With a CLI and an error message the user will either become a Linux guru very quickly or will declare that all Linux sucks and give up. If you need 4GB+ memory, go for 64bit.  If you need 100% accurate directions without extra steps because you've never done this Linux thing before, use 32bit. ...then again, perhaps the day has finally come to leave 32bit behind. David Adrian Moreno wrote: > In order to not clutter the other thread, my question to David Henry and > everyone else, is why not try a 64-bit distro as your first Linux > experience? > > I used 64-bit RedHat ES3 on an Intel Itanium a few years ago where there > was no 32-bit backward compatibility. Other than compiling a few programs > on a 64-bit compiler, I saw no differences between the 64-bit and any > 32-bit distro I'd used to date. > > I use 64-bit Ubuntu at home and had no problems installing CF, et. al. on > it either. > > What problems would you expect a new linux user to run into dealing with ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I'm checking our Railo right now and it runs fine on Ubuntu x64.  Not sure what limitations it might have compared to an actual CF server though.Dave ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

How much actual performance gain do you get from 64bit CF? Dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

It's not really so much about performance gains as it is being able to take advantage of larger datasets and more memory than you can with 32 bit. >>> David Henry <davidhenry@coldfusionpowered.com> 4/27/2009 1:54 PM >>> How much actual performance gain do you get from 64bit CF? Dave wrote: > I'm checking our Railo right now and it runs fine on Ubuntu x64.  Not sure > what limitations it might have compared to an actual CF server though.Dave > > > > >   >> Only point I could see is if you didn't have the big enterprise version ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- and >> java - so it's not really such a big deal anymore. >> >> Where it gets tricky is when you try to compile your own stuff, even ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- AM ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- the >> directions for CF, Java, Apache, MySQL, and most others are written >> 32-bit first and 64-bit as an afterthought.  The smallest difference in >> >> path, url, version, or command arguments can leave the new user >> completely derailed from their tutorial in unfamiliar waters.  With a >> CLI and an error message the user will either become a Linux guru very ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- behind. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Henry ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- any ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- dealing ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Jeff, That's true in many cases but not because there no gains in performance. There ARE very significant performance gains for processor intensive applications. Many applications simply run into other bottlenecks (I/O, bandwidth, DB etc) before they start really pegging even the 32 bit processor.  We had a site running 32 bit procs (dualproc/dualcore) that was running at 70% and servicing a few hundred thousand visitors a day. On CF 64 the procs look pretty much idle most of the time with the same amount of traffic (upgrading to MSSQL05x64 helped too :). Another example - If you are doing abstract financial calculations you can get exponential gains by moving to 64 bit - with or without CF. Moreover, I suspect that we are close to a tipping point on 32/64. I'm certainly seeing a lot more new 64bit hardware than 32 bit at the moment. So I would suggest moving in that direction to keep from falling behind if for no  other reason. In my mind it makes little sense to purchase 64 bit hardware only to run 32 bit software and OS on it. -Mark Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE (402) 408-3733 ext 105 www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com www.necfug.com It's not really so much about performance gains as it is being able to take advantage of larger datasets and more memory than you can with 32 bit. >>> David Henry <davidhenry@coldfusionpowered.com> 4/27/2009 1:54 PM >>> How much actual performance gain do you get from 64bit CF? Dave wrote: > I'm checking our Railo right now and it runs fine on Ubuntu x64.  Not sure > what limitations it might have compared to an actual CF server though.Dave > > > > >   >> Only point I could see is if you didn't have the big enterprise version ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- and >> java - so it's not really such a big deal anymore. >> >> Where it gets tricky is when you try to compile your own stuff, even ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- AM ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- the >> directions for CF, Java, Apache, MySQL, and most others are written >> 32-bit first and 64-bit as an afterthought.  The smallest difference in >> >> path, url, version, or command arguments can leave the new user >> completely derailed from their tutorial in unfamiliar waters.  With a >> CLI and an error message the user will either become a Linux guru very ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- behind. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Henry ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- any ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- dealing ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Yes, but it sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges a little bit here. If you're talking about different systems with 32 bit CPUs vs 64 bit CPUs, there's a LOT of difference between the two architecturally speaking.  Not to mention different generations of motherboard chipsets, etc.  Going from an older server (especially older 32-bit Xeons to the latest 64 bit ones) are generally going to give you an increase in performance. In general, same hardware - but 64 bit software vs 32 bit software - most of the time there will be little to no performance increase.  Mainly because it's exactly the same code, just with bigger definitions for what size an integer is.   In fact, in some cases the same software will run a little slower in 64 bits.   (Measurably so, but not noticibly so - we're talking on the order of a few cpu cycles here.)  Sometimes, things -will- be faster due to the CPU instruction pipeline differences, but over all - given the same set of hardware- 64bit vs 32 bit isn't a big 'performance' gain Yes, things that are computationally intensive will most likely be re-coded and optimized to take advantage of the 64 bit environment and instruction set.  Those can gain HUGE performance increases, especially if they can also be multi-threaded. -- Jeff Schoby Unix/Network Admin City of Columbia, Missouri 573.874.6320 >>> "Mark Kruger" <mkruger@cfwebtools.com> 4/27/2009 2:18 PM >>> Jeff, That's true in many cases but not because there no gains in performance. There ARE very significant performance gains for processor intensive applications. Many applications simply run into other bottlenecks (I/O, bandwidth, DB etc) before they start really pegging even the 32 bit processor.  We had a site running 32 bit procs (dualproc/dualcore) that was running at 70% and servicing a few hundred thousand visitors a day. On CF 64 the procs look pretty much idle most of the time with the same amount of traffic (upgrading to MSSQL05x64 helped too :). Another example - If you are doing abstract financial calculations you can get exponential gains by moving to 64 bit - with or without CF. Moreover, I suspect that we are close to a tipping point on 32/64. I'm certainly seeing a lot more new 64bit hardware than 32 bit at the moment. So I would suggest moving in that direction to keep from falling behind if for no  other reason. In my mind it makes little sense to purchase 64 bit hardware only to run 32 bit software and OS on it. ** Virus scanned by City of Columbia MO Email Firewall **