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Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Author: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87829
This thread is in context with CF.
t o be offered by MACR
I am seeing a lot of *FLASH* talk on here.. its kinda disturbing...
was wondering if Michael can move all the FLASH talk to another
discussion Group (CF-TALK-FLASH) or something like that.
Joe
be offered by MACR
> OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am
only
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Joe Eugene
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87723
I am seeing a lot of *FLASH* talk on here.. its kinda disturbing...
was wondering if Michael can move all the FLASH talk to another
discussion Group (CF-TALK-FLASH) or something like that.
Joe
be offered by MACR
> OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am
only
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87710
Got any scholarships, for independent developers? ;o)
Rick
t o be offered by MACR
I am wrapping an article on just this for next months CFDJ. Also, there
will be lots of this type of stuff covered at DevCon next month.
--- Ben
t o be offered by MACR
Wish I could figure out how to do that... :o(
I'm still trying...
Rick
t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
> I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking
> to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML
> and no I am not
> anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the
> business benefit
> (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be
> developed in normal HTML.
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87708
Hi, Mark.
No, I haven't downloaded and viewed that app, yet. I plan to,
and will. Hopefully I can learn something from it. At least
it'll probably inspire me to keep struggling!
Thanks for the tip!
Rick
t o be offered by MACR
Rick,
I like that Trio car company ap better than the broadmoor application. Have
you seen that one? It does use a little animation for the drill down
engine, but it's got a great examples of both the select box component,
calendar component and the "tree" component.
-mk
t o be offered by MACR
I wouldn't expect many of the Flash SOTD's to not use animation to
get recognized as "cool." But even Pet Market's use of animation
is more functional than eye candy. They move the images into different
areas of the screen to make room for new info, not so much to make the
app attractive. If they didn't move them, the app couldn't do its job.
And one of the main apps that is used to
promote Flash as a "tool" instead of "cool" has no animation at all...
The Broadmoor.com Online Reservation System. No amination at all,
but a great piece of programming. Instead of 5 or more drill-down pages
everything from start to finish on one page...brilliant!
That's what I'm talking about...it's not so cool to look at but it is
extremely cool to use!
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you
see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc.... (I woudl say 100%) this
is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool
sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the
reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..)
maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn......
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Mike Chambers
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87705
i think this is where our disconnect is. I don't see Flash as just an
animation tool. I also see it as a development tool to create rich user
interfaces, which do not necessarily have to include animation.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87701
I am wrapping an article on just this for next months CFDJ. Also, there
will be lots of this type of stuff covered at DevCon next month.
--- Ben
t o be offered by MACR
Wish I could figure out how to do that... :o(
I'm still trying...
Rick
t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
> I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking
> to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML
> and no I am not
> anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the
> business benefit
> (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be
> developed in normal HTML.
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Mark A. Kruger - CFG
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87698
Rick,
I like that Trio car company ap better than the broadmoor application. Have
you seen that one? It does use a little animation for the drill down
engine, but it's got a great examples of both the select box component,
calendar component and the "tree" component.
-mk
t o be offered by MACR
I wouldn't expect many of the Flash SOTD's to not use animation to
get recognized as "cool." But even Pet Market's use of animation
is more functional than eye candy. They move the images into different
areas of the screen to make room for new info, not so much to make the
app attractive. If they didn't move them, the app couldn't do its job.
And one of the main apps that is used to
promote Flash as a "tool" instead of "cool" has no animation at all...
The Broadmoor.com Online Reservation System. No amination at all,
but a great piece of programming. Instead of 5 or more drill-down pages
everything from start to finish on one page...brilliant!
That's what I'm talking about...it's not so cool to look at but it is
extremely cool to use!
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you
see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc.... (I woudl say 100%) this
is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool
sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the
reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..)
maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn......
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87694
Exactly!
t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87695
Wish I could figure out how to do that... :o(
I'm still trying...
Rick
t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87692
Also, I'm trying to say, that in the business world, "funky and cool"
*don't*
sell many business apps...functionality and "ease of use" sell more apps...
and that's what many of us see as the strength of Flash now...
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you
see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc.... (I woudl say 100%) this
is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool
sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the
reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..)
maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn......
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87691
I wouldn't expect many of the Flash SOTD's to not use animation to
get recognized as "cool." But even Pet Market's use of animation
is more functional than eye candy. They move the images into different
areas of the screen to make room for new info, not so much to make the
app attractive. If they didn't move them, the app couldn't do its job.
And one of the main apps that is used to
promote Flash as a "tool" instead of "cool" has no animation at all...
The Broadmoor.com Online Reservation System. No amination at all,
but a great piece of programming. Instead of 5 or more drill-down pages
everything from start to finish on one page...brilliant!
That's what I'm talking about...it's not so cool to look at but it is
extremely cool to use!
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you
see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc.... (I woudl say 100%) this
is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool
sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the
reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..)
maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn......
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87686
I'm not sure by what you mean by "see it in your OS", but it would
be similar to using, say Excel. Instead of jumping around to different
pages
to add, update, delete info, you just type directly in the field and it
changes,
without having to go to an "Action" page for processing. One screen is all
the
user has to deal with. The display of data and form for processing are
integrated.
With a Flash interface, the experience would be the same: you would have a
live dataview which would allow for updating, adding, and deleting
information
without changing screens. No going to another page for an update form, etc.
It's not the cool effect that's significant. I remember when I first
started browsing websites,
it was very confusing jumping around all over the place, not knowing where I
was in relation
to where I'd been, etc...jumping around in "cyberspace." For business
owners, whose
experience is more with using software than "HTMLware", jumping between
pages to process
info is confusing, until they get the hang of it. But that first impression
for a prospective client
can make or break the "sale" of a project.
The hurdles I'm trying to overcome by using a single-page app interface are
those experienced
by users who are used to doing everything, as much as possible, on one page
of an app, like Excel, or Word...
For these users, avoiding the "Click here to update this information", then
going to a form, editing
the info, submitting, getting confirmation and another "Click here to update
another record", etc.,
can be replaced by live editing of info onscreen, while other information on
the screen is automatically
updated. It's a process that is simpler for users to understand initially.
And, too, Flash can create the beautiful graphic interfaces
which provide the "finishing touch" to any great app... ;o)
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:22 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
It depends, yeah sure its 'cool', but do you really gain from using a flash
movie? sure, you get the movie in the browser window and you dont have to
reload the page persay - but you still have to load the information into the
movie and this effectively is your page load.
Multiple Page operations are simply by design, jeez if it was so cool to
keep the user on one screen then you could expect to see it within your OS
wouldnt you!?
N
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87680
Neil,
Sure you will, as soon as Microsoft discounts most of the cost of Office
and Word considering what percentage of its features that are actually
used, and as soon as MM discounts CF considering 90%+ of usage is 5 tags
(hey, we DID discount CF, oops! <g>) ...
I don't think anyone here is saying that Flash should not be used for
animation. Obviously it does very well in that space. But for us CFers
(many of whom are design-challenged, starting with myself) Flash now has
real uses beyond movies and animation.
And by now I mean Flash MX for a few important reasons:
> Prebuilt components
> Better coding support
> Better CF integration
Those of you who can do animation are not out of a job, they'll still be
a need for that. But for those of us who want simple things (like the
example I gave), Flash is now a very usable and viable option.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:02 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am
only going to use 2% of its features?
:-) nah, didnt think so......
N
t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
> I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking
> to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML
> and no I am not
> anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the
> business benefit
> (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be
> developed in normal HTML.
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87670
OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am only
going to use 2% of its features?
:-) nah, didnt think so......
N
t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87667
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
I just released a custom tag to do this - and I would have much rather
done it in Flash. Since it's so easy to pass stuff in to Flash via code
(ie, not remoting), I'm surprised no one has released a generic flash
movie for this scenario that is controllable via CFML. Even a newbie
like myself could write this rather quickly. (Of course, gotta find the
time. ;)
=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire
Email : jedimaster@macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus
"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87661
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense.
I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in
one and the second is populated with selections that change based on
what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML
(without screen refreshes).
Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer.
Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I
don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer.
There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation.
--- Ben
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may
just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and
not HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2.
send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87655
Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you
see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc.... (I woudl say 100%) this
is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool
sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the
reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..)
maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn......
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87652
It depends, yeah sure its 'cool', but do you really gain from using a flash
movie? sure, you get the movie in the browser window and you dont have to
reload the page persay - but you still have to load the information into the
movie and this effectively is your page load.
Multiple Page operations are simply by design, jeez if it was so cool to
keep the user on one screen then you could expect to see it within your OS
wouldnt you!?
N
t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87643
Neil, do you see any advantage to "one-page" data presentation and
maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces?
Rick
[mailto:Neil.Robertson-Ravo@csd.reedexpo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course
t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
Author: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:17064#87632
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be
a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not
HTML....
doesnt make sense...
be offered by MACR
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction,
then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users
interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely,
the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update
the data view (or to submit data, etc).
btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash
for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for
about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which
a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the
server.
> What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of
> Participants'
> (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running.
For what its worth, here is my workflow.
1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components.
2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty.
btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing
in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a
bunch of code that maintains client state across page views.
mike chambers
mesh@macromedia.com
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