bg & myspace

Vince, I am in no way trying to biff you or anything but I have yet to see any sort of responce to the questions about MySpace and their use of BlueDragon after we were told that it was alreay running BG but they really weren't. I know there were quite a few people on here that were waiting for an answer from you. ~Dave the disruptor~ "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and abuse at the same time."

MySpace is running BlueDragon.NET and has been since prior to our announcement. Why would you think otherwise? Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I believe that Dave is referring to this blog post from Sean about Myspace still using CF 5: http://corfield.org/blog/index.cfm?do=blog.entry&entry=63258CAB-F397-B096-2B39932484397145 > MySpace is running BlueDragon.NET and has been since prior to our > announcement. Why would you think otherwise?

Sean's statement that MySpace is "not (running) BlueDragon" is blatantly, factually false. Here is New Atlanta's original press release about MySpace:   http://www.newatlanta.com/corporate/news/myspace_announce.jsp Here is my original blog entry regarding the announcement (sorry for the wrap-around URLs): http://blog.newatlanta.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=764C1F4A-89D7-A61A-F9F 71128027172A7 Here is my blog entry that summarizes the CFUNITED keynote, along with a link to the original PowerPoint presentation: http://blog.newatlanta.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=DCE930CB-C4BB-BCD4-66A E12F14C9315A7 Here is Doug Hughes' blog entry on which I made comments to which Sean is referring:   http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Anyone who really wants to know what's going on with MySpace and BlueDragon.NET should read the original source materials. Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Thank you for the detailed links. I'll put them into a follow up in Fusion Authority (unless you want to blog it with the links and we'll cover your blog entry). ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I think this is the relevant part: "That's not true, Sean. Most of the site is still running CF5--it's going to take several weeks (months, maybe) to convert the entire site. The problems you're seeing are due to CF5 and are the reason the site it being upgraded to BD.NET. You'll know the upgrade to BD.NET is complete when these problems go away. Posted By Vince Bonfanti at 7/29/05 9:37 AM" Sean's statement that MySpace is "not (running) BlueDragon" is blatantly, factually false. Here is New Atlanta's original press release about MySpace:   http://www.newatlanta.com/corporate/news/myspace_announce.jsp Here is my original blog entry regarding the announcement (sorry for the wrap-around URLs): http://blog.newatlanta.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=764C1F4A-89D7-A61A-F9F 71128027172A7 Here is my blog entry that summarizes the CFUNITED keynote, along with a link to the original PowerPoint presentation: http://blog.newatlanta.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=DCE930CB-C4BB-BCD4-66A E12F14C9315A7 Here is Doug Hughes' blog entry on which I made comments to which Sean is referring:   http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Anyone who really wants to know what's going on with MySpace and BlueDragon.NET should read the original source materials. Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Right. And where is that inconsistent with anything that was said in any of the other references I gave? When did I or anyone at New Atlanta say the entire MySpace web server farm has already been migrated to BD.NET? Here are some quotes, starting with the original press release:   "MySpace is switching to BlueDragon.NET to improve the performance and reliability..."   "New Atlanta has just announced that MySpace.com, the world's busiest ColdFusion-based web site, is switching to BlueDragon.NET..."   "At the Friday keynote session at CFUNITED-05, Peter Amiri, Director of Technical Operations for MySpace.com, gave an informative and entertaining presentation about the history and growth of MySpace, and the reasons why the site is being migrated to BlueDragon.NET..." And from Rey Bango's original post to CF-Talk:   "In a huge coup, my boys at New Atlanta have won a MAJOR deal and are helping MySpace.com, the fifth most heavily trafficked web site on the Internet, make the switch from Macromedia ColdFusion 5.0 to New Atlanta's BlueDragon for .NET" http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/forumid:4/threadid:40946# 210707 Note the quotes, "...is switching to..." and "...is being migrated to...". The fact is that the contract had been signed, the commitment had been made, and the switch to BlueDragon.NET had already started at the time of our announcement (and is continuing). Our message has been entirely truthful and consistent from the very beginning. There are some people who want to distort our message and discredit MySpace and New Atlanta, and have from the very moment our announcement was made. There's nothing I can do about that. Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Vince, I think the challenge here is because Sean's actual statement from his blog entry here: http://corfield.org/blog/index.cfm?do=blog.entry&entry=63258CAB-F397-B096-2B 39932484397145 is: "So, in fact, the highest traffic ColdFusion site in the world is (mostly) running on Macromedia ColdFusion 5, a four year old product, two major releases behind the times!" Which is not blatantly false nor a distortion of the 'facts', but precisely what you've been saying. Unless I'm missing something obvious? It may be a distortion of the 'message' that this is an success story technically (which it may yet be, and probably can be considered to be from a sales perspective), but that 'message' (if that's the intended message) seems a bit premature. And that's part of the point of the blog entry I think. To clarify what I mean, if you are referring to the site in its entirety, it is not running BD, but mostly CF5, which appears to be most of the disconnect here. The statement "myspace.com is running BD" implies that it is doing so in its entirety. The reality is that it is *not* running BD [exclusivity implied], but running CF5 for the most part with a few applications (one confirmed) on BD and (one confirmed) on .NET. This seems to be an example of where sales presentation meets technical examination and results in not unexpected dissonance. I think there is little point in mischaracterizing the comments when the disagreement appears to be about presentation more so than 'facts'. - Calvin Right. And where is that inconsistent with anything that was said in any of the other references I gave? When did I or anyone at New Atlanta say the entire MySpace web server farm has already been migrated to BD.NET? Here are some quotes, starting with the original press release:   "MySpace is switching to BlueDragon.NET to improve the performance and reliability..."   "New Atlanta has just announced that MySpace.com, the world's busiest ColdFusion-based web site, is switching to BlueDragon.NET..."   "At the Friday keynote session at CFUNITED-05, Peter Amiri, Director of Technical Operations for MySpace.com, gave an informative and entertaining presentation about the history and growth of MySpace, and the reasons why the site is being migrated to BlueDragon.NET..." And from Rey Bango's original post to CF-Talk:   "In a huge coup, my boys at New Atlanta have won a MAJOR deal and are helping MySpace.com, the fifth most heavily trafficked web site on the Internet, make the switch from Macromedia ColdFusion 5.0 to New Atlanta's BlueDragon for .NET" http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/forumid:4/threadid:40946# 210707 Note the quotes, "...is switching to..." and "...is being migrated to...". The fact is that the contract had been signed, the commitment had been made, and the switch to BlueDragon.NET had already started at the time of our announcement (and is continuing). Our message has been entirely truthful and consistent from the very beginning. There are some people who want to distort our message and discredit MySpace and New Atlanta, and have from the very moment our announcement was made. There's nothing I can do about that. Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main CFUnited room all week. http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

>>What about: > > > 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' I would hope that its powered by CFML. LOL! Sorry Scott, I couldn't resist. > 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' > > Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main CFUnited > room all week. > http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ Scott, its all based on interpretation. As Micha mentioned, the banner only says that MySpace runs BD.Net. Rey... -- http://www.ReyBango.com

Actually, the banner says    "The #1 CFML Website is powered by Blue Dragon" Not   "The #1 CFML Website runs Blue Dragon" Or   "The #1 CFML Website uses Blue Dragon" Just a clarification. >>What about: > > > 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' I would hope that its powered by CFML. LOL! Sorry Scott, I couldn't resist. > 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' > > Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main > CFUnited room all week. > http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ Scott, its all based on interpretation. As Micha mentioned, the banner only says that MySpace runs BD.Net. Rey... -- http://www.ReyBango.com

I see where you're heading to Calvin and I agree that the statement can be viewed in different ways. Rey... Calvin Ward wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I agree.... They are just saying (in my opinion): "Hey, we've decided to use this".. Yves ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Don't forget the t-shirt hanging in my closet... "The #1 CFMX Website is Powered by BlueDragon" The seem to have forgotten the asterisk with the kinda, sorta, patially, maybe someday all the way note at the bottom. :) The skirmish does seem to come down to matter of marketing vs reality...with reality lagging behind the image conveyed by the sales pitch. Lost in here somewhere is also the issue that CFMX was being criticized on at least one point (db drivers) without any information regarding what they did to try and resolve it beyond just leap to a different vendor. And, of course, the cowboy coder remarks are a direct result of the myspace.com presenters comments and tales of their development and (non)testing process and how the users liked it when the servers went down and the game came up. Some day marketing folks will get a clue and realize that trying to parse, spin and defend exaggerated claims after the fact doesn't work anymore. And attacking respected messengers only hurts them in the end. The politicians have ruined that for you...we're all too cynical to believe just anything thrown our way. Ken ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Vince, I believe the conflict is over this: http://www.myspace.com/Application.cfm showing a typical, classic CF5.0 error. In BD, the error messages are like nuclear red/orange/yellow or something. Until this error screen kicks the b&w, I'm forced to doubt MySpace's switch somewhat. Yes, BTW, everyone, this is a server hack that can alert people to (roughly) what version of CF you are running. The only workaround I know of is to not use Application.cfm/cfc/onrequestend.cfm, and make sure you handle any 404 errors thrown. -nathan strutz Vince Bonfanti wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Isn't this handled with a server wide error handler set in the CF Admin? And isn't that a best practice (and a not very time consuming one at that). - Calvin Vince, I believe the conflict is over this: http://www.myspace.com/Application.cfm showing a typical, classic CF5.0 error. In BD, the error messages are like nuclear red/orange/yellow or something. Until this error screen kicks the b&w, I'm forced to doubt MySpace's switch somewhat. Yes, BTW, everyone, this is a server hack that can alert people to (roughly) what version of CF you are running. The only workaround I know of is to not use Application.cfm/cfc/onrequestend.cfm, and make sure you handle any 404 errors thrown. -nathan strutz Vince Bonfanti wrote: > Sean's statement that MySpace is "not (running) BlueDragon" is > blatantly, factually false. Here is New Atlanta's original press release about MySpace: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>Vince, > >I believe the conflict is over this: > >http://www.myspace.com/Application.cfm http://mail.myspace.com/Application.cfm - BlueDragon http://forum.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://browseusers.myspace.com/ - ASP.NET http://search.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://signup.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://groups.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://events.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://music.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://classifieds.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 As Vince himself said, most of the site is still running CF5 (which was exactly what I said on my blog, quoting his own words). Sean (who doesn't like being called a liar in public even when he is on sabbatical!)

Just asking, but would this not go under cf-community? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>Just asking, but would this not go under cf-community? Because servers running CF5 and BlueDragon are a ColdFusion-related topic?

It seems to be very good publicity for Macromedia (CF5 doing a great job on a very high traffic site) and also for BD.NET <http://BD.NET> (very high traffic site have decided to migrate to BD.NET <http://BD.NET> (not without some benchmarking and testing one assumes). Everyone happy now? :-)    > > >Just asking, but would this not go under cf-community? > > Because servers running CF5 and BlueDragon are a ColdFusion-related topic?

Here's a few more: http://games.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 http://favorites.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 http://blog.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 http://invite.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 >Vince, > >I believe the conflict is over this: > >http://www.myspace.com/Application.cfm http://mail.myspace.com/Application.cfm - BlueDragon http://forum.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://browseusers.myspace.com/ - ASP.NET http://search.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://signup.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://groups.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://events.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://music.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://classifieds.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 As Vince himself said, most of the site is still running CF5 (which was exactly what I said on my blog, quoting his own words). Sean (who doesn't like being called a liar in public even when he is on sabbatical!)

Um, isn't the idea of a server farm that while you may hit one of those pages and get CF 5.0, I may hit one of those pages and get BD.net? > Here's a few more: > > http://games.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 > > http://favorites.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5

Not at all. According to my understanding of Vince's description they are migrating entire applications at a time. So according to that and the description of an application (app.myspace.com), it stands to reason that each app is either all CF5 or all BD. Notwithstanding that there may be some variances that may make such an architecture (mixed application servers for one application) undesirable. I certainly wouldn't choose a mixed production environment! - Calvin Um, isn't the idea of a server farm that while you may hit one of those pages and get CF 5.0, I may hit one of those pages and get BD.net? > Here's a few more: > > http://games.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 > > http://favorites.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5

Hm... I thought I recalled from the keynote that they said they migrated an entire server to BD and then threw it up there to see how it coped in the melee. I might be remembering wrong, though. Certainly, it makes more sense to do applications at once - but I just thought that I had heard it differently. (And, one of the things that Sean listed as BD came up with the CF 5.0 error when I hit it.) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I based my understanding on this "Hi Scott, The MySpace server cluster is segregated into "application pools." There are just over 30 separate applications that make up the MySpace web site. If you go to the MySpace web site, you'll notice URLs for "mail.myspace.com", "forums.myspace.com", "music.myspace.com", etc.; these define the separate applications. For example, the "mail" application pool consists of 15 servers that only serve the mail application ("mail.myspace.com"). The upgrade from CF5 to BD.NET is being done one application at a time. Since I know which applications have been upgraded to BD.NET and which are still running on CF5, I can tell whether a problem is with a BD.NET server pool or CF5 server pool based on which application is exhibiting the problem (for example, in an earlier comment, "Bill" said he was having problems with the home page, which is still running on a CF5 server pool). Posted By Vince Bonfanti at 7/29/05 2:24 PM" Ref: http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Hm... I thought I recalled from the keynote that they said they migrated an entire server to BD and then threw it up there to see how it coped in the melee. I might be remembering wrong, though. Certainly, it makes more sense to do applications at once - but I just thought that I had heard it differently. (And, one of the things that Sean listed as BD came up with the CF 5.0 error when I hit it.) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ah, I missed that. Thanks. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Actually, you can put your application.cfm outside the webroot and all directories will be traversed up to the root of the drive until an application.cfm file is (not) found.  Just because an application.cfm file doesn't exist in a web-accessible directory doesn't mean it isn't farther up the directory tree. Andy

yes that is the one, i also thought there was a thread on here but you were on vacation I think. ~Dave the disruptor~ "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and abuse at the same time." I believe that Dave is referring to this blog post from Sean about Myspace still using CF 5: http://corfield.org/blog/index.cfm?do=blog.entry&entry=63258CAB-F397-B096-2B39932484397145 > MySpace is running BlueDragon.NET and has been since prior to our > announcement. Why would you think otherwise?

It was covered in the Blog Watch section of Fusion Authority (http://www.fusionauthority.com/Blog_watch/Article.cfm/ArticleID:4478) about 2 weeks back. Without letting my own feeling about myspace invade, I should point out that myspace has multiple servers and it is possible that some are on BD.Net and others are still on CF 5 as they are being moved over. As I'm not there, I can't really say. I did offer them to have me there, but... :) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I think people were upset because it was said that myspace had been completely running on bd for several months and that was taken as the whole site not a few pages here and there. I see the search pages are now .net any others? Again Vince I am not trying to do anything other than get correct info. ~Dave the disruptor~ "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and abuse at the same time." I think this is the relevant part: "That's not true, Sean. Most of the site is still running CF5--it's going to take several weeks (months, maybe) to convert the entire site. The problems you're seeing are due to CF5 and are the reason the site it being upgraded to BD.NET. You'll know the upgrade to BD.NET is complete when these problems go away. Posted By Vince Bonfanti at 7/29/05 9:37 AM" Sean's statement that MySpace is "not (running) BlueDragon" is blatantly, factually false. Here is New Atlanta's original press release about MySpace: http://www.newatlanta.com/corporate/news/myspace_announce.jsp Here is my original blog entry regarding the announcement (sorry for the wrap-around URLs): http://blog.newatlanta.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=764C1F4A-89D7-A61A-F9F 71128027172A7 Here is my blog entry that summarizes the CFUNITED keynote, along with a link to the original PowerPoint presentation: http://blog.newatlanta.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=DCE930CB-C4BB-BCD4-66A E12F14C9315A7 Here is Doug Hughes' blog entry on which I made comments to which Sean is referring: http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Anyone who really wants to know what's going on with MySpace and BlueDragon.NET should read the original source materials. Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

No one from New Atlanta ever said that. The only people who say we said that are people who wish to discredit us. Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>No one from New Atlanta ever said that. The only people who say we said that >are people who wish to discredit us. > >Vince But we do thank them all for keeping this landmark achievement in the thoughts of the greater CFML community. Living well is the best revenge. Dan

"a few pages here and there"?! MySpace is serving 7.5 *billion* page views per month. Their web server farm consists of several *hundred* servers. Those are numbers that some people seem simply unable to comprehend. Heck, just the servers running BD.NET (still the minority on MySpace) are probably serving more web pages per day than any other CFML site on the internet. Cutting over that many serves from CF5 to BD.NET isn't going to happen overnight (nor would it happen overnight if they had chosen to go from CF5 to CFMX). It's happening in an orderly, planned, carefully managed process. In spite of attempts of some people to discredit MySpace by characterizing them as "cowboys", they do in fact know what they're doing (and the people who refer to MySpace as "cowboys" are clueless and simply don't know what they're talking about--they haven't the faintest idea of what it means to build a site that's even 1% the size of MySpace). Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Having worked for a large CF-Based dotcom (45 CF server farm), I would have to say that this : "they haven't the faintest idea of what it means to build a site that's even 1% the size of MySpace)." is right on target. Rey... Vince Bonfanti wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

yeah a few pages here and there and your answer, well wasnt an answer. my ? refered to what sections it was, i see 1 page running .net (browse), not how many pages myspace serves up a day. dang you are gettin all huffy puffy and we are just curious. ~Dave the disruptor~ "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and abuse at the same time." "a few pages here and there"?! MySpace is serving 7.5 *billion* page views per month. Their web server farm consists of several *hundred* servers. Those are numbers that some people seem simply unable to comprehend. Heck, just the servers running BD.NET (still the minority on MySpace) are probably serving more web pages per day than any other CFML site on the internet. Cutting over that many serves from CF5 to BD.NET isn't going to happen overnight (nor would it happen overnight if they had chosen to go from CF5 to CFMX). It's happening in an orderly, planned, carefully managed process. In spite of attempts of some people to discredit MySpace by characterizing them as "cowboys", they do in fact know what they're doing (and the people who refer to MySpace as "cowboys" are clueless and simply don't know what they're talking about--they haven't the faintest idea of what it means to build a site that's even 1% the size of MySpace). Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

OK, sorry, I'll try to tone down the "huffy, puffy" part. The pages running on BlueDragon.NET are all ".cfm" pages, just as would be running on CF5. So you can't tell which pages are running CF5 and which are running BD.NET just by looking at the file extension (in fact, there's no way for you to tell at all, which is sort of the point of BD.NET). They have several hundred web servers in their server farm. Some are running CF5 and some are running BD.NET. As each week goes by, less are running CF5 and more are running BD.NET. Eventually, all will be running BD.NET. Does that answer your question? Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

thanks! I'm not against you Vince, sorry if I came off that way. I just remembered some comments I saw about why or why not you weren't responding to the questions and had forgotten until I saw your name today, so I thought I would repost the ?. I use myspace as a very good business tool and myself was curious to what parts were in fact bd so I could keep a concious look out for improvement. I hate micro$oft not New Atlanta ;) I actually have a site (just bought domain name 5 minutes ago) that I was thinking of using BD on. But now thinking about it I will be using flash remoting on it and I am not interested in the java one that is on other current thread and I am assuming BD doesn't have that. Guess I'm buying a dedicated server, anyone interested in going in on one with me at hms? James? ~Dave the disruptor~ "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and abuse at the same time." OK, sorry, I'll try to tone down the "huffy, puffy" part. The pages running on BlueDragon.NET are all ".cfm" pages, just as would be running on CF5. So you can't tell which pages are running CF5 and which are running BD.NET just by looking at the file extension (in fact, there's no way for you to tell at all, which is sort of the point of BD.NET). They have several hundred web servers in their server farm. Some are running CF5 and some are running BD.NET. As each week goes by, less are running CF5 and more are running BD.NET. Eventually, all will be running BD.NET. Does that answer your question? Vince ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Vince, As I noted on Diug Hughes' blog ( http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116), as someone who sat through the keynote at CFUNITED, I came away with the distinct impression that MySPace was runnign BD.NET <http://BD.NET> already. Nor was anything done or said to cull those false impressions. I am sure you can understand the confusion when you make statements like 'MySpace is running BlueDragon.NET and has been since prior to our announcement.' (which was copied from a post earlier in this thread), and follow that up with ' Heck, just the servers running BD.NET <http://bd.net/>; (still the minority on MySpace) are probably serving more web pages per day than any other CFML site on the internet.' (also copied from earlier in the thread. To put it in perspective (and this is a gross exaggeration), imagine Mozilla making an announcement that FireFox is the browser of choice for Internet users and then back-pedaling and saying, 'Well, not yet, but we are getting there.' I think the problem people are having (me included) is that you make comments like 'MySPace is running BD.NET <http://BD.NET>', without qualifying that the migration is in progress and that, by your own admission, is running on a minority of servers, until someone calls you out or speaks ill of you, New Atlanta or BD.NET <http://BD.NET> One has to wonder, why all the chest thumping? Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

-----From Scott ----- I think the problem people are having (me included) is that you make comments like 'MySPace is running BD.NET', without qualifying that the migration is in progress and that, by your own admission, is running on a minority of servers, until someone calls you out or speaks ill of you, New Atlanta or BD.NET One has to wonder, why all the chest thumping? Scott Stroz -----From Scott ----- Facts: - Myspace is the #5 most trafficked site on the internet, recently overtaking Google (April) and Hotmail (May), and is poised to overtake AOL and EBay. - Myspace is the #1 most trafficked site on the internet using CFML. - MySpace is one of the most popular and fastest growing destinations on the internet.    Strategic Truths: - MySpace chose .NET as their strategic platform. - MySpace thoroughly tested BlueDragon - on their most demanding applications - even in their production environment. BlueDragon performance was superior to ColdFusion. - MySpace chose BlueDragon as a strategic part of their infrastructure. - MySpace chose BlueDragon primarily based on superior performance and native support for .NET. - MySpace is removing ColdFusion. ColdFusion is not strategic part of their infrastructure. Tactical Minutiae: MySpace is so busy managing a wildly successful and growing business that many tasks – including the general transition to a .NET-based architecture (including BlueDragon) has taken longer than originally anticipated. MySpace has not yet transitioned all servers to BlueDragon. MySpace is getting excellent support from New Atlanta throughout the transition. All of the above statements were made within the first week of the initial announcement at CFUnited. Some people have questioned (and in some cases mischaracterized):   the usefulness of the MySpace website;   the architecture of the MySpace website;   the popularity of the MySpace website;   the Media Metrix ranking by ComScore;   the measure of performance of BlueDragon relative to ColdFusion;   the coding and deployment practices at MySpace;   the high levels of CFML compatibility MySpace experienced with BlueDragon;   the current deployed status of BlueDragon throughout the MySpace server farms. The discussion has been great publicity, and by keeping this landmark win for New Atlanta on the minds of many indicates we were right to make the announcement at CFUnited. …And through it all, one thing still remains true: MySpace chose BlueDragon to power their website. The facts and strategic truths listed above are impervious to any tactical minutiae, question or even mischaracterization. Regards, Dan

Daniel Ganter wrote: > -----From Scott ----- > One has to wonder, why all the chest thumping? If I managed to convince a major internet dotcom to switch platforms, I'd be thumping my chest as well. Its a big win for them and they're proud of the fact that MySpace believe's in their product. The Linux crowd does it anytime they have a major implementation of linux go through especially if it affects Microsoft. Rey... -- http://www.ReyBango.com

But the fact remains, the site is not completely running on BD.NET<http://BD.NET>, so how can MySpace be considered a 'success story' excpet for the New Atlanta Sales team? Once the site has migrated and (if)the issues MySpace was seeing are resolved, then it can be a true 'success story', and I will gladly commend New Atlanta on a job well done. My issues is with the semantics. Representatives of New Atlanta have been claiming that MySPace is running BD.NET <http://BD.NET>, while not qualifying that it is a minority of the servers (for now), unless they have their backs against the wall or someone claims to have issues with some of the applications within the site (then they tell us 'Oh, that application is still on CF5'). My grandfather would say they are putting the horser before the cart. -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

< -- Scott Stroz wrote -- > But the fact remains, the site is not completely running on BD.NET, so how can MySpace be considered a 'success story' excpet for the New Atlanta Sales team? Once the site has migrated and (if) the issues MySpace was seeing are resolved, then it can be a true 'success story', and I will gladly commend New Atlanta on a job well done. My issues is with the semantics. Representatives of New Atlanta have been claiming that MySPace is running BD.NET, while not qualifying that it is a minority of the servers (for now), unless they have their backs against the wall or someone claims to have issues with some of the applications within the site (then they tell us 'Oh, that application is still on CF5'). My grandfather would say they are putting the horser before the cart. Scott Stroz < -- Scott Stroz -- > I can totally respect that your metric for success may differ from ours. And, again, we have qualified the tactical nature of the deployment. I do disagree with the characterization that we’ve hidden it. Regards, Dan

What is your metric for success Dan? Has myspace.com been completely migrated or even mostly migrated to BD and is now showing signs of improved capacity and performance as a result of that migration? - Calvin < -- Scott Stroz wrote -- > But the fact remains, the site is not completely running on BD.NET, so how can MySpace be considered a 'success story' excpet for the New Atlanta Sales team? Once the site has migrated and (if) the issues MySpace was seeing are resolved, then it can be a true 'success story', and I will gladly commend New Atlanta on a job well done. My issues is with the semantics. Representatives of New Atlanta have been claiming that MySPace is running BD.NET, while not qualifying that it is a minority of the servers (for now), unless they have their backs against the wall or someone claims to have issues with some of the applications within the site (then they tell us 'Oh, that application is still on CF5'). My grandfather would say they are putting the horser before the cart. Scott Stroz < -- Scott Stroz -- > I can totally respect that your metric for success may differ from ours. And, again, we have qualified the tactical nature of the deployment. I do disagree with the characterization that we’ve hidden it. Regards, Dan

Dan, The first time I heard anyone from New Atlanta admit that MySpace was not completely migrated to BD.NET <http://BD.NET> was when Vince posted a comment here http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116. Only after someone pointed out that MySpace was still getting errors did Vince mention that the migration was not complete (and blamed the erros on CF5). Not once during the Keynote at CFUNITED was it mentioned that the migration was a work in prgogress, and not yet compelted. All we heard was about how much better their applications were performing under BD.NET <http://BD.NET>. By purposely omitting this information, one could percieve it as being hidden. -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

So what happens to mySpace if Adobe doesn't have the same view of New Atlanta as MM did? -Adam ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

This seems like kind of a silly discussion. Consider the following two statements: #1 - MySpace.com is powered by New Atlanta's Bluedragon.NET. #2 - MySpace.com is powered by Macromedia Coldfusion. It would appear that both statements are 100% true. Now consider the following statement, which is far more important as far   as I'm concerned: "MySpace.com is powered by CFML" Rick

My response to this has been posted to CF-OT and I'd appreciate people posting there. Thank you. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Best post yet! Rey.. Rick Root wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Here here.... (thump thump thump)... Yves ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Forgive me for jumping in and knocking some sense into this thread.... ;-) People promoting their own stuff put a spin on it in their favour PERIOD I'm not saying anyone at New Atlanta is trying to deceive anyone....this is a general point I'm trying to make...I could personally care less who said what about MySpace.com and it's servers. The point is that there seems to be a lot of folks that are shocked that mabye a company promoting it's product added a little embellishment.  To these people I say..."unplug....go outside and open your eyes"...it's been this way for a LONG time and I don't see capitalism slowing down anytime soon ;-) This is also not to be confused with false advertising which is a completely different subject. my 2 cents Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: bryan@electricedgesystems.com web: www.electricedgesystems.com

Bryan is right. You can't really blame NA for creatively describing thier situation with mySpace. Afterall, NA is in the top 1% of all US companies. However, I will say that I got a very negative impression of NA in general at CFUnited. I think they have gone from being a company who has provided a ColdFusion alternative, to a company whose sole purpose is to bash Macromedia and publicy criticise all thier products. -Adam ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> However, I will say that I got a very negative impression of NA in > general at CFUnited. I think they have gone from being a company who > has provided a ColdFusion alternative, to a company whose sole purpose > is to bash Macromedia and publicy criticise all thier products. > > -Adam I wasn't at CFUnited so I don't know what occurred, but IF this is true it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Again....this is not directed at New Atlanta..... Any company providing an "alternative" product is going to "play nice" until they get a foot hold and can afford to cheese off some folks. If a what some are saying is true.... Don't ya think if NA had come out of the gates saying BD was the best thing since sliced bread and that MM should burn that the CF community would have embraced them in the slightest??? ;-)  Think about that one folks.... Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: bryan@electricedgesystems.com web: www.electricedgesystems.com

Adrocknaphobia wrote: > However, I will say that I got a very negative impression of NA in > general at CFUnited. I think they have gone from being a company who > has provided a ColdFusion alternative, to a company whose sole purpose > is to bash Macromedia and publicy criticise all thier products. I'm sure there are things behind the scenes between MM and NA that we don't see and I know that in conversations that my friends have had with MM recently, MM has been very dismissive of New Atlanta. I have to assume the MM seeing a viable alternative to CFMX is not something they're fond of and would assume that any level of coorperation is next to none. Put that all together and the jabs will definitely begin between both camps. As for the negative impression of NA, thats a shame because they are great to work with. Seriously. Have a sit down with Vince, Charlie, Brian or Dan one day, and I think you'd come out with a good feeling. Rey... -- http://www.ReyBango.com

I'd rather care about the details instead of worrying about whether a specific percentage of the server already is running BlueDragon. I am interested in parts like incompatibility issues, speed improvements (especially since they are running the .NET version ?) , stability improvements, etc. cost savings, and most of all the opinion of those who are developing on BlueDragon at MySpace. Seriously, did people really think MySpace would migrate such a platform in just some weeks? The discussion more or less looks like "let's find a weak spot in the replies" while it can be such an interesting discussion about the early results of the migration. Some statements made could have been marketing talk, too bad, that is the nature of a business. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Here's a few more: http://games.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 http://favorites.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 http://blog.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 http://invite.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 >Vince, > >I believe the conflict is over this: > >http://www.myspace.com/Application.cfm http://mail.myspace.com/Application.cfm - BlueDragon http://forum.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://browseusers.myspace.com/ - ASP.NET http://search.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://signup.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://groups.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://events.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://music.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 http://classifieds.myspace.com/Application.cfm - CF5 As Vince himself said, most of the site is still running CF5 (which was exactly what I said on my blog, quoting his own words). Sean (who doesn't like being called a liar in public even when he is on sabbatical!)

Yeah, to throw 2 cents worth in...... With a server config like they have (servers numbered in the hundreds) they couldn't possibly switch over in a matter of days or a few weeks.... I guess a misunderstanding occured either in the original presentation which brought up the subject or in some posts. I wasn't at the presentation, but I do understand serveral people were under the impression that the "myspace" site was running BD.NET. I'm not sure of the official release date of BD.NET, but I doubt it's been a year... probably hasn't even been enough time to switch over such a high number of systems. I would be curious to see the original presentation... Yves ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

What's wrong with that statement? They do run BlueDragon, and I never see them mentioning that the entire server park runs BlueDragon. They only say, MySpace runs BlueDragon. Just a matter of marketing. People seem to handle the same type of Macromedia marketing talk very well, why is that different with New Atlanta. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- of > Technical Operations for MySpace.com, gave an informative and entertaining > presentation about the history and growth of MySpace, and the reasons why > the site is being migrated to BlueDragon.NET..." > > And from Rey Bango's original post to CF-Talk: > > "In a huge coup, my boys at New Atlanta have won a MAJOR deal and are > helping MySpace.com, the fifth most heavily trafficked web site on the > Internet, make the switch from Macromedia ColdFusion 5.0 to New Atlanta's ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main CFUnited room all week. http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

I think I covered this in my response earlier. Stating myspace is on BD, implies that all of it is, or even at the very least, most of it is. But the truth is that most of myspace is on CF5. Thus the appearance of being misleading in the marketing speak. And actually, this list also takes MM to task for such things as well from my memory. - Calvin What's wrong with that statement? They do run BlueDragon, and I never see them mentioning that the entire server park runs BlueDragon. They only say, MySpace runs BlueDragon. Just a matter of marketing. People seem to handle the same type of Macromedia marketing talk very well, why is that different with New Atlanta. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- of > Technical Operations for MySpace.com, gave an informative and entertaining > presentation about the history and growth of MySpace, and the reasons why > the site is being migrated to BlueDragon.NET..." > > And from Rey Bango's original post to CF-Talk: > > "In a huge coup, my boys at New Atlanta have won a MAJOR deal and are > helping MySpace.com, the fifth most heavily trafficked web site on the > Internet, make the switch from Macromedia ColdFusion 5.0 to New Atlanta's ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main CFUnited room all week. http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

Marketing is misleading ... Have you ever heard Microsoft stating in their TV commercials they make software that might fail? In general they say, bigger, better, faster, so I should then assume it should never crash. Just a stupid comparison but I am trying to say, to prevent overreacting to statements made. I think everybody has enough brain threads open to process a "marketing" poster. Micha Schopman Project Management Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- I think I covered this in my response earlier. Stating myspace is on BD, implies that all of it is, or even at the very least, most of it is. But the truth is that most of myspace is on CF5. Thus the appearance of being misleading in the marketing speak. And actually, this list also takes MM to task for such things as well from my memory. - Calvin What's wrong with that statement? They do run BlueDragon, and I never see them mentioning that the entire server park runs BlueDragon. They only say, MySpace runs BlueDragon. Just a matter of marketing. People seem to handle the same type of Macromedia marketing talk very well, why is that different with New Atlanta. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- of > Technical Operations for MySpace.com, gave an informative and entertaining > presentation about the history and growth of MySpace, and the reasons why > the site is being migrated to BlueDragon.NET..." > > And from Rey Bango's original post to CF-Talk: > > "In a huge coup, my boys at New Atlanta have won a MAJOR deal and are > helping MySpace.com, the fifth most heavily trafficked web site on the > Internet, make the switch from Macromedia ColdFusion 5.0 to New Atlanta's ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main CFUnited room all week. http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

My car is powered by Diesel. ... it does use oil though, and has some fluids for the window washers, etc. ;) Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Actually, the banner says    "The #1 CFML Website is powered by Blue Dragon" Not   "The #1 CFML Website runs Blue Dragon" Or   "The #1 CFML Website uses Blue Dragon" Just a clarification. >>What about: > > > 'The #1 CFML website is powered by CFML' I would hope that its powered by CFML. LOL! Sorry Scott, I couldn't resist. > 'Hear MySPace.com Tell their success story at Friday's Keynote' > > Do you remember what this is from? The banner hanging in the main > CFUnited room all week. > http://flickr.com/photos/77581638@N00/23435256/ Scott, its all based on interpretation. As Micha mentioned, the banner only says that MySpace runs BD.Net. Rey... -- http://www.ReyBango.com

> My car is powered by Diesel. ... it does use oil though, and has some > fluids for the window washers, etc. ;) Poor comparison. Your car will run without windshielkd washer fluid. And while there are other thigs that are needed for an engien to run (suxh as oil), the power comes from the fuel (be it diesel, gasoline or elcetricity). This is purely a case where New Atlanta's marketing department grossly underestimated the audience of the 'spin'. Is it splitting hairs? Asolutley. However, look at some of Vince's comments, he is splitting them just as much as everyone else. -- Scott Stroz Boyzoid.com <http://Boyzoid.com> ___________________________ Some days you are the dog, Some days you are the tree.

Afaik, they were already running a mix of ASP.NET and CF5. The high performance parts seem to be made in ASP.NET. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Not at all. According to my understanding of Vince's description they are migrating entire applications at a time. So according to that and the description of an application (app.myspace.com), it stands to reason that each app is either all CF5 or all BD. Notwithstanding that there may be some variances that may make such an architecture (mixed application servers for one application) undesirable. I certainly wouldn't choose a mixed production environment! - Calvin Um, isn't the idea of a server farm that while you may hit one of those pages and get CF 5.0, I may hit one of those pages and get BD.net? > Here's a few more: > > http://games.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5 > > http://favorites.myspace.com/application.cfm CF5

If they need 15 server to handle a mail application then there must be something terribly wrong. There are comparable sites which ran their entire non cached site on 15 servers with relatively same amount of hits. Not to mention they seem to run an application pool for each section of the site, pfeww... I have the idea they need a lot of restructuring. I could be dead wrong, but something does not look right here. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- I based my understanding on this "Hi Scott, The MySpace server cluster is segregated into "application pools." There are just over 30 separate applications that make up the MySpace web site. If you go to the MySpace web site, you'll notice URLs for "mail.myspace.com", "forums.myspace.com", "music.myspace.com", etc.; these define the separate applications. For example, the "mail" application pool consists of 15 servers that only serve the mail application ("mail.myspace.com"). The upgrade from CF5 to BD.NET is being done one application at a time. Since I know which applications have been upgraded to BD.NET and which are still running on CF5, I can tell whether a problem is with a BD.NET server pool or CF5 server pool based on which application is exhibiting the problem (for example, in an earlier comment, "Bill" said he was having problems with the home page, which is still running on a CF5 server pool). Posted By Vince Bonfanti at 7/29/05 2:24 PM" Ref: http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Hm... I thought I recalled from the keynote that they said they migrated an entire server to BD and then threw it up there to see how it coped in the melee. I might be remembering wrong, though. Certainly, it makes more sense to do applications at once - but I just thought that I had heard it differently. (And, one of the things that Sean listed as BD came up with the CF 5.0 error when I hit it.) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- environment! > > - Calvin > > Um, isn't the idea of a server farm that while you may hit one of > those pages and get CF 5.0, I may hit one of those pages and get BD.net? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Micha, Wouldn't that depend on a lot of variables?  what kind of servers, what are the resources, how are they configured, hot spares etc.?  It takes 5 metros to haul the same amount of cargo as 1 van - right? -Mark If they need 15 server to handle a mail application then there must be something terribly wrong. There are comparable sites which ran their entire non cached site on 15 servers with relatively same amount of hits. Not to mention they seem to run an application pool for each section of the site, pfeww... I have the idea they need a lot of restructuring. I could be dead wrong, but something does not look right here. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- I based my understanding on this "Hi Scott, The MySpace server cluster is segregated into "application pools." There are just over 30 separate applications that make up the MySpace web site. If you go to the MySpace web site, you'll notice URLs for "mail.myspace.com", "forums.myspace.com", "music.myspace.com", etc.; these define the separate applications. For example, the "mail" application pool consists of 15 servers that only serve the mail application ("mail.myspace.com"). The upgrade from CF5 to BD.NET is being done one application at a time. Since I know which applications have been upgraded to BD.NET and which are still running on CF5, I can tell whether a problem is with a BD.NET server pool or CF5 server pool based on which application is exhibiting the problem (for example, in an earlier comment, "Bill" said he was having problems with the home page, which is still running on a CF5 server pool). Posted By Vince Bonfanti at 7/29/05 2:24 PM" Ref: http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Hm... I thought I recalled from the keynote that they said they migrated an entire server to BD and then threw it up there to see how it coped in the melee. I might be remembering wrong, though. Certainly, it makes more sense to do applications at once - but I just thought that I had heard it differently. (And, one of the things that Sean listed as BD came up with the CF 5.0 error when I hit it.) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- environment! > > - Calvin > > Um, isn't the idea of a server farm that while you may hit one of > those pages and get CF 5.0, I may hit one of those pages and get BD.net? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Mark, That's true, I assumed they would run top notch hardware. I made the comparison to sites running high performance hardware with a relatively similar amount of hits looking at the server amount. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Micha, Wouldn't that depend on a lot of variables?  what kind of servers, what are the resources, how are they configured, hot spares etc.?  It takes 5 metros to haul the same amount of cargo as 1 van - right? -Mark If they need 15 server to handle a mail application then there must be something terribly wrong. There are comparable sites which ran their entire non cached site on 15 servers with relatively same amount of hits. Not to mention they seem to run an application pool for each section of the site, pfeww... I have the idea they need a lot of restructuring. I could be dead wrong, but something does not look right here. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL  Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- I based my understanding on this "Hi Scott, The MySpace server cluster is segregated into "application pools." There are just over 30 separate applications that make up the MySpace web site. If you go to the MySpace web site, you'll notice URLs for "mail.myspace.com", "forums.myspace.com", "music.myspace.com", etc.; these define the separate applications. For example, the "mail" application pool consists of 15 servers that only serve the mail application ("mail.myspace.com"). The upgrade from CF5 to BD.NET is being done one application at a time. Since I know which applications have been upgraded to BD.NET and which are still running on CF5, I can tell whether a problem is with a BD.NET server pool or CF5 server pool based on which application is exhibiting the problem (for example, in an earlier comment, "Bill" said he was having problems with the home page, which is still running on a CF5 server pool). Posted By Vince Bonfanti at 7/29/05 2:24 PM" Ref: http://www.doughughes.net/index.cfm/page-blogLink/entryId-116 Hm... I thought I recalled from the keynote that they said they migrated an entire server to BD and then threw it up there to see how it coped in the melee. I might be remembering wrong, though. Certainly, it makes more sense to do applications at once - but I just thought that I had heard it differently. (And, one of the things that Sean listed as BD came up with the CF 5.0 error when I hit it.) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- environment! > > - Calvin > > Um, isn't the idea of a server farm that while you may hit one of > those pages and get CF 5.0, I may hit one of those pages and get BD.net? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

People. The debate over what percentage of myspace has to be running on bd.net to be considered running bd.net is a debate that really does not belong here. Please move it to CF-OT. The question of what's needed to run a large site is quite valid and should be a seperate thread. The question of what Vince said, What the myspace people said and what was reported is also a rather OT debate that can be moved over to CF-OT. I'm going to refrain from posting my views on myspace and instead point to the Fusion Authority CFUNITED wrapup for my views: http://www.fusionauthority.com/Community/Article.cfm/ArticleID:4476

Mike, If people are discussing New Atlanta and BD, could we keep it on the CF-Talk list. I'd be anxious to hear impressions on the company since it is CF related and could influence the decision to use New Atlanta products.  Obviously, if we're just arguing about what technology MySpace uses then I don't mind it moving, but the responses about perceptions from CFUnited would be nice to hear. Just my $0.02. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer My response to this has been posted to CF-OT and I'd appreciate people posting there. Thank you. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- far ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Burns, John D wrote: > > If people are discussing New Atlanta and BD, could we keep it on the > CF-Talk list. I'd be anxious to hear impressions on the company since it > is CF related and could influence the decision to use New Atlanta > products. Actually, I would thing that's exactly the kind of discussion that SHOULD occur on cf-community, not cf-talk.

I disagree, I think cf-community is too chock full of unrelated stuff to be useful to subscribe to for some busy professionals who would have an interest in a conversation about technology that is ColdFusion related... /shrug Burns, John D wrote: > > If people are discussing New Atlanta and BD, could we keep it on the > CF-Talk list. I'd be anxious to hear impressions on the company since > it is CF related and could influence the decision to use New Atlanta > products. Actually, I would thing that's exactly the kind of discussion that SHOULD occur on cf-community, not cf-talk.

> I disagree, I think cf-community is too chock full of unrelated stuff to be > useful to subscribe to for some busy professionals who would have an > interest in a conversation about technology that is ColdFusion related... but CF-Talk is supposed to be for technical questions.  A discussion of specific code differences between ColdFusion and BlueDragon might be considered on topic. I don't disagree at all that cf-community has too much unrelated stuff.   That's why Michael suggested CF-OT ... a happy medium between CF-Talk (technical) and CF-Community (anything goes) :) -- Charlie Griefer ================================================ "...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed."