ColdFusion Studio 5

Yep I still use CF Studio 5 for my development and I'm not ashamed to admit that I love it as an editor. It does exactly what I need and in the way I need it...except...it doesn't have the latest tag updates for tag insight, "edit current tag" option or the docs. Anyone know if there's an update to that? Rey...

Rey, I'm witchu. Why change if you don't have to. I use Homesite 5.5 (or is it +). Can't remember. All I know is every time I try to switch to Eclipse it lacks several of the very things that I love most about Homesite. I have attached the CF tag updates for Homesite. Not sure if they will work for studio, but it might. http://www.bennadel.com/resources/public/hsplus_extensions_for_cfmx7.zip Just in case any one gets all touchy, these are not my files, I did not write them, and I am sorry if I have put them somewhere for public use without permissions. ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com Yep I still use CF Studio 5 for my development and I'm not ashamed to admit that I love it as an editor. It does exactly what I need and in the way I need it...except...it doesn't have the latest tag updates for tag insight, "edit current tag" option or the docs. Anyone know if there's an update to that? Rey...

Wow! You come through again for me Ben! You da man. Rey... Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Always a pleasure. ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com Wow! You come through again for me Ben! You da man. Rey... Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Worked like a charm man!! CF Studio 5 lives!!! Rey... Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I'm right there with you. I really, really like CFEclipse, but it's just missing a couple little things that keep me on HS+. I've even gotten to where I do all of my PHP in HS+ too. And ah what I wouldn't give for an HS+ version that would run on a mac. I have to either use Eclipse, or run VirtualPC just to work from home. ****************************** Ken Ferguson 214.636.6126 kferguson@812inc.com ****************************** Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Here is the stuff that is holding me back... And please, someone let me know if this can be done in Eclipse and I just can't figure it out: 1. The large box for extended search/replace. 2. The split  directory / file view... I rather dislike the dreamweaveresque view of everything one left in one loooooooong window. 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included template"... HUGELY awesome. 4. The ability to CTRL+SHIFT+TAB through the different tabs of homesite (not sure if eclipse can do this). ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com I'm right there with you. I really, really like CFEclipse, but it's just missing a couple little things that keep me on HS+. I've even gotten to where I do all of my PHP in HS+ too. And ah what I wouldn't give for an HS+ version that would run on a mac. I have to either use Eclipse, or run VirtualPC just to work from home. ****************************** Ken Ferguson 214.636.6126 kferguson@812inc.com ****************************** Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- admit ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Yep, I'll join you guys in saying that there's just something about CFEclipse that isn't quite there. It could just be that I've developed in CF Studio for so long that I'm just used to it but I know that when I tried CFEclipse out (since everyone was making a big hoopla about it) it just didn't feel right. I'm hoping that Jacob is right in that the next release will make a ocnverter out of me. Rey... Admitted CF Studio Lover Ken Ferguson wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Rey Do you know where I can get CF Studio 5 CD? Have license but CD has become corrupt.. Dick ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Rey Do you know where I can get the CD containing CF Studio 5. My CD became corrupt. Dick

You can get Homesite+ for free and it has all the functionality of CF Studio 5 I believe. That is if you cannot get a copy of the CD. Teddy ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

There was a tag update for Studio 5.0 when CF 6 came out, but I have not seen them for the latest versions of CF.  Of course I have not looked either. I was using CF Studio 4.5 for the longest time then switched to Homesite. If you like Studio then give Homesite a shot.  It is really close to CF Studio.   I think it comes with the purchase of CF now or dreamweaver... Side note: I am really impressed with MS Visual Studio 2005.  Great little editor I use it for XML and other stuff. Yep I still use CF Studio 5 for my development and I'm not ashamed to admit that I love it as an editor. It does exactly what I need and in the way I need it...except...it doesn't have the latest tag updates for tag insight, "edit current tag" option or the docs. Anyone know if there's an update to that? Rey...

> MS Visual Studio 2005.  Great little > editor I use it for XML throw(type="Overkill.NotLittle"); -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. We are pleased to announce that Halliwells LLP has been voted AIM Lawyer of the Year at the 2005 Growth Company Awards

Thanks for the feedback Chad. I've used Homesite 5.5+ as well and its virtually identical to CF Studio. I just don't have a copy of it and didn't want to have to buy it when I already had CF Studio. I'll see if I can dig up a copy somewhere. I really would like to stick to CF STudio or Homesite if possible since its just so darn intuitive. I've tried Dreamweaver and I just don't dig it. Rey... Chad Gray wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Thanks for the feedback Chad. I've used Homesite 5.5+ as well and its > virtually identical to CF Studio. I just don't have a copy of it and > didn't want to have to buy it when I already had CF Studio. Do you have a copy of the Dreamweaver CD?  HomeSite+ is on that.   For the record, I prefer CFEclipse.  I really think a lot of people are going to be converted when they make the next release.  Mark Drew has put a lot of work into porting HomeSite/CF Studio features to CFEclipse. And there are some cool features that HS/CFS don't have. ------------ This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

> 1. The large box for extended search/replace. > 2. The split  directory / file view... I rather dislike the > dreamweaveresque > view of everything one left in one loooooooong window. > 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included > template"... > HUGELY awesome. I don't believe any of those three are available in CFEclipse, and I agree with #1.  But I just pop open HomeSite to do those kind of find/replaces.  :)  I've heard rumors that the find/replace boxes will be improved in the next release of CFEclipse, but I haven't tried the nightly to check on this. > 4. The ability to CTRL+SHIFT+TAB through the different tabs > of homesite (not > sure if eclipse can do this). You can do this.  By default the keys are CTRL+PageUp/CTRL+PageDown, but I'm almost positive you can change this. ------------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

Cool, yeah I gotta learn more about the customization of key strokes. I hate going to the mouse. ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com > 1. The large box for extended search/replace. > 2. The split  directory / file view... I rather dislike the > dreamweaveresque view of everything one left in one loooooooong > window. > 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included > template"... > HUGELY awesome. I don't believe any of those three are available in CFEclipse, and I agree with #1.  But I just pop open HomeSite to do those kind of find/replaces. :)  I've heard rumors that the find/replace boxes will be improved in the next release of CFEclipse, but I haven't tried the nightly to check on this. > 4. The ability to CTRL+SHIFT+TAB through the different tabs of > homesite (not sure if eclipse can do this). You can do this.  By default the keys are CTRL+PageUp/CTRL+PageDown, but I'm almost positive you can change this. ------------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

> Cool, yeah I gotta learn more about the customization of key > strokes. I hate > going to the mouse. I will say that I've had difficulties changing the shortcut keys in the past.  There's a new version of Eclipse on the horizon, so I'm hoping this will be better.  But I had the devil of a time trying to get a change I made to stick, and I can't remember what I did.  I think I had to delete the original setting and create a new one from scratch (for the particular command I wanted to change). The biggest reason I like using Eclipse is because I can do all of this in one IDE: ColdFusion, Perl, XML, JavaScript, and DB management (although the latter is kind of weak compared to proprietary DB tools). And that's just the stuff I need, there are multitudes of other plugins out there for just about whatever you might want need program. ------------ This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

" Side note: I am really impressed with MS Visual Studio 2005. Great little editor I use it for XML and other stuff. " Yeah I bet its cf stuff ROCKS!! ~Dave the disruptor~ There was a tag update for Studio 5.0 when CF 6 came out, but I have not seen them for the latest versions of CF. Of course I have not looked either. I was using CF Studio 4.5 for the longest time then switched to Homesite. If you like Studio then give Homesite a shot. It is really close to CF Studio. I think it comes with the purchase of CF now or dreamweaver... Side note: I am really impressed with MS Visual Studio 2005. Great little editor I use it for XML and other stuff. Yep I still use CF Studio 5 for my development and I'm not ashamed to admit that I love it as an editor. It does exactly what I need and in the way I need it...except...it doesn't have the latest tag updates for tag insight, "edit current tag" option or the docs. Anyone know if there's an update to that? Rey...

If I was you I would start getting used to eclipse. If eclipse had better css, visual and ftp support it would be the next cfstudio.... easily For god's sake cfstudio is as old as Will underpants, you gotta let go of it sometime and move on. Most people on here don't "dig" dw but it's more like they are used to what they got and it's hard to let an old friend go to hang out the your newer younger friend. ~Dave the disruptor~ Thanks for the feedback Chad. I've used Homesite 5.5+ as well and its virtually identical to CF Studio. I just don't have a copy of it and didn't want to have to buy it when I already had CF Studio. I'll see if I can dig up a copy somewhere. I really would like to stick to CF STudio or Homesite if possible since its just so darn intuitive. I've tried Dreamweaver and I just don't dig it. Rey...

It may worry the hell out of my wife sometimes, but I've certainly never had a problem giving up older for younger and newer! I don't, however, think that this has anything to do with using cfstudio or HS+. HS+ is simply the best thing out there in a lot of our opinions. It doesn't bog the whole world down like DW always does and CFE seems to sometimes do. It doesn't ever crash or die and it does everything a good, strong, non-wysiwyg type of developer could ever need it to do. It's just got no real downside that I've ever been able to find. I don't ever find myself wishing it had this feature or that one or wishing it could do something else... --Ferg dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

This is the same reason IE lives, ppl just need to learn to let things go and move onto new better things.;)~ ~Dave the disruptor~ Worked like a charm man!! CF Studio 5 lives!!! Rey... Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

New and better don't necessarily go hand in hand... Eric This is the same reason IE lives, ppl just need to learn to let things go and move onto new better things.;)~ ~Dave the disruptor~ Worked like a charm man!! CF Studio 5 lives!!! Rey... Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Or adapt and improvise. I just don't like the CFE experience at this moment and as Ken said, I find that CFStudio & Homesite+ do EVERYTHING that I need and does it VERY well. If I need to switch to another IDE tomorrow because of a product upgrade, a new product or a new OS, then I'll tackle it when I get there. I just don't believe in following the crowd just because everyone's heading in a specific direction; especially if there isn't a VERY compelling reason to do so. Very lemming-like to me. ;) Rey... dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I've been using CFEclipse for a while... It's not as good as Homesite+ or CF Studio by itself.  It's missing the integrated help (although it gives you link to online docs, they're kind of slow).   However, once you pair it with Subcslipse (assuming you use subversion, which you should), it's awesome.   It becomes a real IDE, where I can make changes to the code base, deploy changes, merge changes from different branches, etc). So if you're just developing a small site without any sort of version control, then Homesite+ or Dreamweaver might work better for you, but if you're serious about development and want integration with subversion, then CFEclipse is the best editor for you. Just my $0.02. Russ ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Of course, you don't need CFE to use subversion in your IDE. I believe you can use TortoiseSVN and all the Explorer TortoiseSVN right-click options are there in the directory pane. --Ferg Russ wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

You sure can. Oh wait, I'm not doing serious development!! ;) Rey... Ken Ferguson wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

What I meant by serious we development is enterprise level stuff... How many sites do you manage that have over 10k templates?  It's almost impossible to work with using Tortoise, but acceptable in CFEclipse.   ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ah, so if we're not managing several thousand pages, then we're still not doing serious development. hmm. LOL! I'm just messing with you Russ. I know what you mean. ;) Rey... Russ wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Yes, you can use Tortoise, but I believe Eclipse does a lot of caching as to what files have changed in your workspace, and it makes branching and merging much easier... ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> you're serious about development and want integration with subversion, then > CFEclipse is the best editor for you. Sorry, I didn't realize that people developing small sites weren't serious about development. ;) Rey...

I think if you dont have the time to learn a new tool, no matter the   size of the site, you just wont. Nothing anyone can say will help you switch from one tool to another,   I would have to show you (ahh, yes people, I will be doing some   video's of using CFEclipse) MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 20:55, Rey Bango wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Hey Mark, I would just like to say that i've only recently starting using CFE but i think it's cool - it took me a while to get into it (from a studio then DW background) but i want to say a big that you to you and the CFE team. THANK YOU - and please keep up the good work... ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Definitely do the videos. I'm fairly open to new ideas but again, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't just jump to the next tool because its the "in" thing. If you're videos do a good job of showing me the benefits, I'd be more than happy to use CFE. Rey... Mark Drew wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I have been using CFE for nearly 2 months now, and I still miss Homesite. In fact I keep it open at the same time for the quick reference to tag editor, function/tag insert and quick help. CFE has a way to go before it beats CFStudio/homesite for CFML editing. russ Definitely do the videos. I'm fairly open to new ideas but again, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't just jump to the next tool because its the "in" thing. If you're videos do a good job of showing me the benefits, I'd be more than happy to use CFE. Rey... Mark Drew wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Those are two features that are rather requested and I have already   added them (not sure if they are in the stable yet but definately   will be in the next release) If you have a Dictionary View you can double click and enter   functions and tags. Also I have (in the nightly) a version of right   clicking on a tag and being able to edit it. its pretty neat. So I am trying to make the product work well as requested by most   people. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 00:48, Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

When is the next release coming out?  I am always willing to give things another try if they have been improved... Eric Those are two features that are rather requested and I have already added them (not sure if they are in the stable yet but definately will be in the next release) If you have a Dictionary View you can double click and enter functions and tags. Also I have (in the nightly) a version of right clicking on a tag and being able to edit it. its pretty neat. So I am trying to make the product work well as requested by most people. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 00:48, Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I also miss the HomeSite customizable toolbar too. Not just for the default buttons (the table wizard was very handy), but the ability to add my own and create VTML tag editor for my own tags and what not. CFE has very few CFML/HTML options on the toolbar. But perhaps you could also enlighten me as to some tags are auto completed and some are not, is this editable somewhere? Russ Those are two features that are rather requested and I have already added them (not sure if they are in the stable yet but definately will be in the next release) If you have a Dictionary View you can double click and enter functions and tags. Also I have (in the nightly) a version of right clicking on a tag and being able to edit it. its pretty neat. So I am trying to make the product work well as requested by most people. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 00:48, Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

The next version of CFE has toolbars http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/index.cfm/2005/12/19/More-on-the-new- CFEclipse-Toolbars You can add whatever tags you want by using snippets. CFE is a CF   editor by trade but we do provide html syntax too. You can edit the dictionary you are in , in the next version of CFE   you have a choice of which dictionary you use, we have tried to keep   the dictionary as accurate as possible with regards to which tags   close and which dont, and yes if you want to change it you can edit   whichever is your default dictionary (Cfmx7, 6 , 5 or whatever) and   change whether they close or not. You have been enlightened? MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 13:33, Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

That's more like it Mark,  I may yet be converted :-) I will have a look at the dictionary's next week and see if I can't customise CFE to not annoy me :-) Russ The next version of CFE has toolbars http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/index.cfm/2005/12/19/More-on-the-new- CFEclipse-Toolbars You can add whatever tags you want by using snippets. CFE is a CF editor by trade but we do provide html syntax too. You can edit the dictionary you are in , in the next version of CFE you have a choice of which dictionary you use, we have tried to keep the dictionary as accurate as possible with regards to which tags close and which dont, and yes if you want to change it you can edit whichever is your default dictionary (Cfmx7, 6 , 5 or whatever) and change whether they close or not. You have been enlightened? MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 13:33, Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> So if you're just developing a small site without any sort of version > control, then Homesite+ or Dreamweaver might work better for you, but if > you're serious about development and want integration with subversion, then > CFEclipse is the best editor for you. > > Just my $0.02. > > Russ > Never thought I'd hear *you* say that Russ ;-) Kola

On 2 Jun 2006, at 20:31, Russ wrote: > I've been using CFEclipse for a while... It's not as good as   > Homesite+ or CF > Studio by itself.  It's missing the integrated help (although it   > gives you > link to online docs, they're kind of slow). > I was working on that but now Adobe have released all the help, well,   what do you want me to do, keep the help updated by myself? I am trying to find ways to launch the help on the tag that you   wanted at the moment if you have the help installed. MD

on a mac in dw you can move the panes anywhere you want them on a pc you can choose the older "hs coder view" instead of designer view and its more like hs is. ~Dave the disruptor~ Here is the stuff that is holding me back... And please, someone let me know if this can be done in Eclipse and I just can't figure it out: 1. The large box for extended search/replace. 2. The split directory / file view... I rather dislike the dreamweaveresque view of everything one left in one loooooooong window. 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included template"... HUGELY awesome. 4. The ability to CTRL+SHIFT+TAB through the different tabs of homesite (not sure if eclipse can do this). ....................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com I'm right there with you. I really, really like CFEclipse, but it's just missing a couple little things that keep me on HS+. I've even gotten to where I do all of my PHP in HS+ too. And ah what I wouldn't give for an HS+ version that would run on a mac. I have to either use Eclipse, or run VirtualPC just to work from home. ****************************** Ken Ferguson 214.636.6126 kferguson@812inc.com ****************************** Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- admit ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Most people on here don't "dig" dw but it's more like they > are used to what they got and it's hard to let an old friend > go to hang out the your newer younger friend. I agree.  I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses.  I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back.  Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could.  I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. ---------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

I have a usage question... In my file system I have it organized by company like: Company - Site_v1 - Site_v2 - Intranet_v1 Now, I assume that I would make projects that link to those directories, but should I Make "Company" a project since it really isnt? But if I do it the other way, then I would have like 10 projects names "site_v1" at the same level? Suggestions? ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com > Most people on here don't "dig" dw but it's more like they are used to > what they got and it's hard to let an old friend go to hang out the > your newer younger friend. I agree.  I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses.  I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back.  Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could.  I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. ---------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

> I don't ever find myself wishing it had this feature or > that one or wishing it could do something else... I found myself wishing I could have one IDE (not an editor, an IDE) to do all my coding.  One day I looked down at my task bar and saw a bunch of different editors/IDEs open, and that's when I finally decided to take the plunge towards Eclipse.  I do agree that it's kind of a resource hog though, but so are all of the other IDE's I've used.  And when you are combining 5 different programs into one, you might even be saving resources. ----------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

I have to agree.  I have yet to see a compelling reason for me to switch to CFE.  I used HS, then CFS, then HS+ for years.  Only last fall, I decided to switch to DW8 just to see how it has been improved.  Yes, there is some bloat, but the best damn feature, in my opinion, is when you type a "</" and DW will smartly close the inner-most open tag. I did give CFE a try a while back.  My first impression was "HS and DW don't require me to install a JRE just to run the program."  Sorry, but I just haven't yet caught on to the Java-based, open-everywhere platform that is Eclipse.  But don't judge me by my choice of editor.  I just don't have the same requirements as the majority of people that use CFE. And, personally, I like having separate tools that concentrate on particular tasks.  I like HS+, TopStyle and FeedDemon, just because of this. Heck, why not have a Photoshop plug-in for Eclipse? I will add that I think the CFE project and development teams have done an outstanding job, but CFE is just not for me at this time and I am not embarrassed to admit it. M!ke It may worry the hell out of my wife sometimes, but I've certainly never had a problem giving up older for younger and newer! I don't, however, think that this has anything to do with using cfstudio or HS+. HS+ is simply the best thing out there in a lot of our opinions. It doesn't bog the whole world down like DW always does and CFE seems to sometimes do. It doesn't ever crash or die and it does everything a good, strong, non-wysiwyg type of developer could ever need it to do. It's just got no real downside that I've ever been able to find. I don't ever find myself wishing it had this feature or that one or wishing it could do something else... --Ferg

You're talking about CFEclipse, right? You can't have a project inside a project.  So you couldn't have one for Company and then ones for each site, unless the sub projects don't live under the company folder in your file system.  This has been an annoyance for me, but I've learned to live with it.  Or maybe someone else knows a way around this. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

This is actually one of the problems I had initially with CFE and with DW too. I was able to find out how to get around them and get better views, but it's just so irritating that they want things to be in a project and what not. The way HS+ just has the explorer panes with directories over files is so incredibly cool. It's the easiest thing in the world to work with and it just consistently stays the hell out of the way. And when you get right down to it, that's what I want most out of an application, is to stay out of the way and let me work. --Ferg Munson, Jacob wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

and in your own way you are right but at some point you are going to have to let it go and move on and as I hear it the next cfm will be built around eclipse the same way flex is now (as the ide) and seeing how Adobe has already started release tags for it that it just might be the case. You can use whatever you want of course but to me its better to start going with the flow and getting used to it now rather than being forced to later. Do you think hs is gunna run on vista? ~Dave the disruptor~ I have to agree. I have yet to see a compelling reason for me to switch to CFE. I used HS, then CFS, then HS+ for years. Only last fall, I decided to switch to DW8 just to see how it has been improved. Yes, there is some bloat, but the best damn feature, in my opinion, is when you type a " I did give CFE a try a while back. My first impression was "HS and DW don't require me to install a JRE just to run the program." Sorry, but I just haven't yet caught on to the Java-based, open-everywhere platform that is Eclipse. But don't judge me by my choice of editor. I just don't have the same requirements as the majority of people that use CFE. And, personally, I like having separate tools that concentrate on particular tasks. I like HS+, TopStyle and FeedDemon, just because of this. Heck, why not have a Photoshop plug-in for Eclipse? I will add that I think the CFE project and development teams have done an outstanding job, but CFE is just not for me at this time and I am not embarrassed to admit it. M!ke It may worry the hell out of my wife sometimes, but I've certainly never had a problem giving up older for younger and newer! I don't, however, think that this has anything to do with using cfstudio or HS+. HS+ is simply the best thing out there in a lot of our opinions. It doesn't bog the whole world down like DW always does and CFE seems to sometimes do. It doesn't ever crash or die and it does everything a good, strong, non-wysiwyg type of developer could ever need it to do. It's just got no real downside that I've ever been able to find. I don't ever find myself wishing it had this feature or that one or wishing it could do something else... --Ferg

on my macbook pro eclipse launches in about 3-5 seconds and i can't really tell any performance hit all. mbp 15" 2.16 ghz 2gb ram For just having 1 editor I still think dw is hard to beat and it seems most peoples complaints are its a system hog yet most of them run norton which is even more of a system hog, so here is a suggestion... get rid of norton and get something good with a small foot print like bitdefender and add a bit more ram if it's too much of a system hog. When you got hs and topstyle and this and that all opened you are probably using more system resources that if you just have dw open. ~Dave the disruptor~ > I don't ever find myself wishing it had this feature or > that one or wishing it could do something else... I found myself wishing I could have one IDE (not an editor, an IDE) to do all my coding. One day I looked down at my task bar and saw a bunch of different editors/IDEs open, and that's when I finally decided to take the plunge towards Eclipse. I do agree that it's kind of a resource hog though, but so are all of the other IDE's I've used. And when you are combining 5 different programs into one, you might even be saving resources. ----------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

"When you got hs and topstyle and this and that all opened you are probably using more system resources that if you just have dw open." I agree, for people who use several programs. But there's the kicker, I don't use all that other crap. I open HS and I do my work. I'm not one for using topstyle; I know how to write css. I'm not one for using some js or php specific IDE, I know how to write them. My whole point is that I don't want things like that open whether it's several programs or one monster that tries to be all things. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using DW or CFE. They're both great, for what they are. I'm just saying that there's no need to ditch HS just because there are newer IDEs out there. --Ferg dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

" I agree. I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses. I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back. Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could. I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. " Remember back when dw mx came out and we had these same discussions on here and the same things were said then, once they forced themselfs to use it for a week most didnt want to go back. ~Dave the disruptor~

I can understand moving to CFEclipse over homesite, but I have never felt that DW offered anything over Homesite (in the way that I use it). All this talk has made me want to give it another shot (with Eclipse) .... Again Does anyone know if there is a plugin that will allow me to create a split directory view like Homesite/studio where the directory is on the top, files on the bottom? I find it a much more efficient way to navigate. ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com " I agree. I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses. I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back. Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could. I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. " Remember back when dw mx came out and we had these same discussions on here and the same things were said then, once they forced themselfs to use it for a week most didnt want to go back. ~Dave the disruptor~

Ben, CFEclipse already has that and has had it for a while, Its called the   File Explorer view and you can also use it to connect to FTP servers MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:10, Ben Nadel wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I have used CFEclipse for some time and I just don't like it...it's not very intuitive and I don't like how it forces you into a file system of it's choosing...I don't like it on DW...though at least their files system is a bit more friendly.  I started using it at work when DW wouldn't properly save files and we had to actually open he files in notepad then save them again to get the web server to recognize them...not sure what DW was doing to them.  I just don't like the set up or the interface.  It is a very clumsy and non-intuitive interface.  I could do without the tag editors that DW has, though they are a time saver...especially with tags that I don't use very often.  It's just lacking.  The only thing it has going for it is that it is free. DW is a hog...that is for sure...I have more than enough memory and cpu real estate.  I still think it takes too long to load and save files, plus some of the other quirks that develop from time to time do get on my nerves. It's no wonder though, since Dreamweaver was originally designed for Mac users and not for programmers.  I want Cold Fusion Studio back.  That was the best tool ever designed for CF development. Eric " I agree. I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses. I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back. Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could. I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. " Remember back when dw mx came out and we had these same discussions on here and the same things were said then, once they forced themselfs to use it for a week most didnt want to go back. ~Dave the disruptor~

Well you're in luck then Eric, because HS+, for all intents and purposes, IS CF Studio. --Ferg Eric Roberts wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Yep :o) Ken Ferguson wrote: > Well you're in luck then Eric, because HS+, for all intents and > purposes, IS CF Studio. > > --Ferg

I want my youth back too! all the late nights developing a tool for programmers and with   attitudes like this it is a bit dis-heartening There is nothing I could do to CFEclipse to make some people change,   but when I use HomeSite (which I dont by the way, only to do a   feature comparison) it feels *ikky* now and I come from a sworn   background of using CFStudio MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:57, Eric Roberts wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Its not an attitude...just an opinion.  I am also not a big fan of open source products in general.  I have recommended cfeclipse to people as it is not a bad product over all...I just don't like it.  I couldn't get...or at least figure out how to get, the cf part to work right.  I found the interface to be very non-intuitive and hard to use.  It does have potential. I do like the fact that I can use it for multiple platforms...that is pretty cool, though right now, I am not doing anything but cf, so that does kill some of the cool factor for that.  Packaged installs would be good.  I think a lot of us just don't like the whole Linux/open source way of doing things when software is concerned.  I find most gnu licensed products are more trouble that they are worth to install and get running(mysql being an exception).  I find a lack of consistency since you have multiple independent programmers working on it.  The concept is great, but like many things, they look better on paper.  Don't take it personally ;-)  You do have a strong following that really like cfeclipse. Blessings, Eric I want my youth back too! all the late nights developing a tool for programmers and with attitudes like this it is a bit dis-heartening There is nothing I could do to CFEclipse to make some people change, but when I use HomeSite (which I dont by the way, only to do a feature comparison) it feels *ikky* now and I come from a sworn background of using CFStudio MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:57, Eric Roberts wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Hi Eric, blessed be!   This is one of those age old arguments, Open vs Closed, and there are tons of docs about development cycles and such, good reads. They even have names for the types of cycles and whatnot. I don't think your arguments hold water now adays tho.  If they ever did.  "Open" is so open, you'll find all types.  By definition. Some are good, some not so good, but it's been a ton of fun watching the evolution. If you can't read the trends, you may still be thinking along old- school lines of thought.  Old, biased lines of thought. For years I've been using "open" solutions.  Just look at the Apache Group for more examples of stuff that "just works", like MySQL.  Lots of examples. Any large project will have multiple contributor's, or programmers, no matter if it's open or closed.  I don't see "closed" as having some intrinsic nature of consistency.  That's a MS meme; that for some reason, people seem to buy into, even tho they USE MS products, and could obviously see the fallacy of that idea. OpenSource is the way of the future, and if you can't tell that by what's been going on for the last bit, you haven't been paying attention.     I'm not saying everything will be free, but rather, that the people who believed, for some time, in the ultimate power of "open" vs. "closed", have been borne out, whereas, the folks who touted "closed is better", haven't. If you're really "doing cf", you should LOVE the awesome power of eclipse over HS+ or studio.  If you're just note-padding it, for all intents and purposes, you aren't really coding.  Heh, that's a statement. Seriously though, UML and all this nifty crap, made by coders, for coders, beats the pants off of some corporate, "name it something friendly, like 'HOMEsite'" type method. THAT's what turned me off of HS, really. The name.  Coding isn't easy.  "Home" makes it sound like a dumbed-down thing. Why not name it "PROsite". :-P At any rate, when a colleague and buddy said "there's an eclipse plugin for CF" (he doens't even do CF much) I was all over it.  It seemed "manly". LOL. Really though, if installing a java runtime is that difficult... there's something wrong.  I hope you run an instance of cf locally, and use source control and such, but if not... I've got another colleague/friend who, do to being comfortable with "the old way", has really been lagging on picking up the new design flow.  Insists on editing live stuff on the production server, leaves temp files, etc..  Sees the power of the new stuff, but for some reason, hasn't shown initiative in taking it to the next level.    But a decision from on high has changed things (really it was just the effects of doing things "the old way"), so now my friend will have to get a crash-course, vs. a nice, lazy introduction. If you're interested, open source has probably furthered the "coding"-ness of coding 1000x fold.  It was obvious years ago (to me) that sharing info would do that. Guess the main thing people have a problem with is figuring out that when they help other people, they help themselves as well. So it's cool that you tout the MS line about open source, but you are totally wrong on every count, if you ask me. If you are serious. I just can't see how you could say it looks good on paper, but not in reality, when it's pretty blatant that OpenSource will be a key factor in what's to come (And has really proven itself, (as if it needed to). Sorry to come off so hard.  This is more of an emotional response than a productive one, but I'm finding out the hard way that if you want to be a real coder, you have to get with the program.  Open Source is here, it's queer (how do I get $$?), get used to it. And GPL is just a license, it's pretty unfair to try to link a licence to software quality. That's not Bud, that's not True. What looked good on paper, is looking even better in real life, and keeps on looking better. Well, that was a rant, sorry, but I had to respond in kind, as it didn't seem like much research went into your post.  No hard feelings, don't take it personal, just an exchange of rantings, if'n that don't bother folks. Opensource is something that isn't just linux any more.  This is a big factor for CF based products as well. Eh. 'Nuff said ;-) :Denleg

Homesite was originally designed for non-cf developers.  It was also used by non-developers because it has a great interface.  HS+ was a bit of an appeasement to the CF developers MM lied to when they trashed cf studio after assuring us they wouldn't.  As far as open source goes, don't assume that I don't see the trend.  I just don't like or agree that it is better. Why is it that if I am not doing my code in some bloated text editor that I am not really coding?  I would say the opposite is true.  If you can't do it in notepad, then you don't know how to code.  You shouldn't rely on crutches.  I make a lot of use out of the Jakarta Apache projects open source code.  Like I said...most of the open source stuff is inconsistent...most does not mean all...  If open source has won out, why does MS and non-open source Unix have the greater market share?  In my 8 years of cf development, I have only run into 2 shops that use any open source software in their production environment.  That doesn't sound like a win for open source to me. MMMPMMA, Eric ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Hi Eric, blessed be!   This is one of those age old arguments, Open vs Closed, and there are tons of docs about development cycles and such, good reads. They even have names for the types of cycles and whatnot. I don't think your arguments hold water now adays tho.  If they ever did. "Open" is so open, you'll find all types.  By definition. Some are good, some not so good, but it's been a ton of fun watching the evolution. If you can't read the trends, you may still be thinking along old- school lines of thought.  Old, biased lines of thought. For years I've been using "open" solutions.  Just look at the Apache Group for more examples of stuff that "just works", like MySQL.  Lots of examples. Any large project will have multiple contributor's, or programmers, no matter if it's open or closed.  I don't see "closed" as having some intrinsic nature of consistency.  That's a MS meme; that for some reason, people seem to buy into, even tho they USE MS products, and could obviously see the fallacy of that idea. OpenSource is the way of the future, and if you can't tell that by what's been going on for the last bit, you haven't been paying attention.     I'm not saying everything will be free, but rather, that the people who believed, for some time, in the ultimate power of "open" vs. "closed", have been borne out, whereas, the folks who touted "closed is better", haven't. If you're really "doing cf", you should LOVE the awesome power of eclipse over HS+ or studio.  If you're just note-padding it, for all intents and purposes, you aren't really coding.  Heh, that's a statement. Seriously though, UML and all this nifty crap, made by coders, for coders, beats the pants off of some corporate, "name it something friendly, like 'HOMEsite'" type method. THAT's what turned me off of HS, really. The name.  Coding isn't easy. "Home" makes it sound like a dumbed-down thing. Why not name it "PROsite". :-P At any rate, when a colleague and buddy said "there's an eclipse plugin for CF" (he doens't even do CF much) I was all over it.  It seemed "manly". LOL. Really though, if installing a java runtime is that difficult... there's something wrong.  I hope you run an instance of cf locally, and use source control and such, but if not... I've got another colleague/friend who, do to being comfortable with "the old way", has really been lagging on picking up the new design flow.  Insists on editing live stuff on the production server, leaves temp files, etc..  Sees the power of the new stuff, but for some reason, hasn't shown initiative in taking it to the next level.    But a decision from on high has changed things (really it was just the effects of doing things "the old way"), so now my friend will have to get a crash-course, vs. a nice, lazy introduction. If you're interested, open source has probably furthered the "coding"-ness of coding 1000x fold.  It was obvious years ago (to me) that sharing info would do that. Guess the main thing people have a problem with is figuring out that when they help other people, they help themselves as well. So it's cool that you tout the MS line about open source, but you are totally wrong on every count, if you ask me. If you are serious. I just can't see how you could say it looks good on paper, but not in reality, when it's pretty blatant that OpenSource will be a key factor in what's to come (And has really proven itself, (as if it needed to). Sorry to come off so hard.  This is more of an emotional response than a productive one, but I'm finding out the hard way that if you want to be a real coder, you have to get with the program.  Open Source is here, it's queer (how do I get $$?), get used to it. And GPL is just a license, it's pretty unfair to try to link a licence to software quality. That's not Bud, that's not True. What looked good on paper, is looking even better in real life, and keeps on looking better. Well, that was a rant, sorry, but I had to respond in kind, as it didn't seem like much research went into your post.  No hard feelings, don't take it personal, just an exchange of rantings, if'n that don't bother folks. Opensource is something that isn't just linux any more.  This is a big factor for CF based products as well. Eh. 'Nuff said ;-) :Denleg

My response was an emotional one, sorry. > > Homesite was originally designed for non-cf developers.  It was also used > by > non-developers because it has a great interface.  HS+ was a bit of an > appeasement to the CF developers MM lied to when they trashed cf studio > after assuring us they wouldn't.  As far as open source goes, don't assume > that I don't see the trend.  I just don't like or agree that it is better. The thing is, it's evolution - Believe me, the trend isn't because of a sudden feeling of good will in companies such as Microsoft, or IBM.  Nor out of some new found need for "security" and thus an initiative for "transparency" in software (if that is even a good argument, about security). Well, maybe IBM's is out of good will, for sure not microsoft. Why is it that if I am not doing my code in some bloated text editor that I > am not really coding?  I would say the opposite is true.  If you can't do > it > in notepad, then you don't know how to code. See, I can "code" cf in my sleep. It's not like with my cell phone, where I wouldn't know what any of my friends numb3rs were if I lost it. If anything, my trouble is remembering the old stuff and forgetting the new. When I'm talking about real coding, I'm talking about the whole deal. All the interesting stuff going on now is using things like ANT and XML and frameworks of whatever types... version control...  Good IDE's make it real easy to do 'em all, with key-bindings even. If you want power and flexibility, you'd want an IDE you could extend. Or at least I would/do.  IDE's aren't crutches... more bio-tech-symbiotic suits. At least Eclipse is. Full of living people, living code, open to contributions, suggestions, whatnot. NetBeans is also sweet, and you might like it's UI better than Eclipse's.  Don't know if there is a CF plugin for it, so it's pointless for you probably, but it's alive too, which is pretty cool. I guess to put it in context, imagine if people were constantly coming up with new "buttons" for you to extend HS+/CFStudio with. Wouldn't that be cool? ;-) > Like I said...most of the open source stuff is > inconsistent... Most? Ahh, there ARE a lot of open source projects out there. I see what you mean.  Come to think of it, there are a lot of closed source, commercial apps out there.  If you ask me, MOST leave something to be desired as well. But most does not mean all ;-) most does not mean all...  If open source has won out, why > does MS and non-open source Unix have the greater market share? What would be a better question,is why is MS talking about open sourcing code now(MS! the KING of closed!)? Why is Apple so damn cool?   In my 8 > years of cf development, I have only run into 2 shops that use any open > source software in their production environment.  That doesn't sound like > a > win for open source to me. Dude, you've been going into the wrong shops. =-) That's all I can think of that would explain it. MMMPMMA, Mmmm Mmmm good. :-) Don't get it. Oh! Hey, ditto. I like that. I guess you are ok. [= em hotep :denny

<snipped> Why is Apple so damn cool? <snipped> When was Apple ever cool? Eric

Heh. That does make me feel cool. :-) > > When was Apple ever cool? > > Eric

I have to disagree with that. Most developers (cf or otherwise) do not use every part of the language every day, so therefore you do not know all the functions, methods, attributes off the top of your head (unless your just a total nerd), this is why editors like homesite are handy, so you do not have to pull your manual/book out or search livedocs every time you forgot something. The difference between using notepad or a good editor like homesite can the difference between having adaquate code or great code because you had the right tool for the job. That's like saying if you can't build a house with no mechnical machinary your not a real builder. Russ Homesite was originally designed for non-cf developers.  It was also used by non-developers because it has a great interface.  HS+ was a bit of an appeasement to the CF developers MM lied to when they trashed cf studio after assuring us they wouldn't.  As far as open source goes, don't assume that I don't see the trend.  I just don't like or agree that it is better. Why is it that if I am not doing my code in some bloated text editor that I am not really coding?  I would say the opposite is true.  If you can't do it in notepad, then you don't know how to code.  You shouldn't rely on crutches.  I make a lot of use out of the Jakarta Apache projects open source code.  Like I said...most of the open source stuff is inconsistent...most does not mean all...  If open source has won out, why does MS and non-open source Unix have the greater market share?  In my 8 years of cf development, I have only run into 2 shops that use any open source software in their production environment.  That doesn't sound like a win for open source to me. MMMPMMA, Eric ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Hi Eric, blessed be!   This is one of those age old arguments, Open vs Closed, and there are tons of docs about development cycles and such, good reads. They even have names for the types of cycles and whatnot. I don't think your arguments hold water now adays tho.  If they ever did. "Open" is so open, you'll find all types.  By definition. Some are good, some not so good, but it's been a ton of fun watching the evolution. If you can't read the trends, you may still be thinking along old- school lines of thought.  Old, biased lines of thought. For years I've been using "open" solutions.  Just look at the Apache Group for more examples of stuff that "just works", like MySQL.  Lots of examples. Any large project will have multiple contributor's, or programmers, no matter if it's open or closed.  I don't see "closed" as having some intrinsic nature of consistency.  That's a MS meme; that for some reason, people seem to buy into, even tho they USE MS products, and could obviously see the fallacy of that idea. OpenSource is the way of the future, and if you can't tell that by what's been going on for the last bit, you haven't been paying attention.     I'm not saying everything will be free, but rather, that the people who believed, for some time, in the ultimate power of "open" vs. "closed", have been borne out, whereas, the folks who touted "closed is better", haven't. If you're really "doing cf", you should LOVE the awesome power of eclipse over HS+ or studio.  If you're just note-padding it, for all intents and purposes, you aren't really coding.  Heh, that's a statement. Seriously though, UML and all this nifty crap, made by coders, for coders, beats the pants off of some corporate, "name it something friendly, like 'HOMEsite'" type method. THAT's what turned me off of HS, really. The name.  Coding isn't easy. "Home" makes it sound like a dumbed-down thing. Why not name it "PROsite". :-P At any rate, when a colleague and buddy said "there's an eclipse plugin for CF" (he doens't even do CF much) I was all over it.  It seemed "manly". LOL. Really though, if installing a java runtime is that difficult... there's something wrong.  I hope you run an instance of cf locally, and use source control and such, but if not... I've got another colleague/friend who, do to being comfortable with "the old way", has really been lagging on picking up the new design flow.  Insists on editing live stuff on the production server, leaves temp files, etc..  Sees the power of the new stuff, but for some reason, hasn't shown initiative in taking it to the next level.    But a decision from on high has changed things (really it was just the effects of doing things "the old way"), so now my friend will have to get a crash-course, vs. a nice, lazy introduction. If you're interested, open source has probably furthered the "coding"-ness of coding 1000x fold.  It was obvious years ago (to me) that sharing info would do that. Guess the main thing people have a problem with is figuring out that when they help other people, they help themselves as well. So it's cool that you tout the MS line about open source, but you are totally wrong on every count, if you ask me. If you are serious. I just can't see how you could say it looks good on paper, but not in reality, when it's pretty blatant that OpenSource will be a key factor in what's to come (And has really proven itself, (as if it needed to). Sorry to come off so hard.  This is more of an emotional response than a productive one, but I'm finding out the hard way that if you want to be a real coder, you have to get with the program.  Open Source is here, it's queer (how do I get $$?), get used to it. And GPL is just a license, it's pretty unfair to try to link a licence to software quality. That's not Bud, that's not True. What looked good on paper, is looking even better in real life, and keeps on looking better. Well, that was a rant, sorry, but I had to respond in kind, as it didn't seem like much research went into your post.  No hard feelings, don't take it personal, just an exchange of rantings, if'n that don't bother folks. Opensource is something that isn't just linux any more.  This is a big factor for CF based products as well. Eh. 'Nuff said ;-) :Denleg

For my $.02, go and download the latest Flex beta 3 from here: http://labs.adobe.com/flexproductline/ Add InterAkt's site to add JsEclipse support (very nice .js editor with tag insight and night highlighting, and free): http://www.interaktonline.com Add in CFEclipse's update site http://www.cfeclipse.org/update and install the latest cfeclipse. I have been using the Adobe flex builder now since Beta1, and I like it a lot better than the vanilla Eclipse install.  Plus, I can tool around with Flex, which is totally awesome too. Have fun! Chris I can understand moving to CFEclipse over homesite, but I have never felt that DW offered anything over Homesite (in the way that I use it). All this talk has made me want to give it another shot (with Eclipse) .... Again Does anyone know if there is a plugin that will allow me to create a split directory view like Homesite/studio where the directory is on the top, files on the bottom? I find it a much more efficient way to navigate. ....................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com " I agree. I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses. I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back. Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could. I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. " Remember back when dw mx came out and we had these same discussions on here and the same things were said then, once they forced themselfs to use it for a week most didnt want to go back. ~Dave the disruptor~

Can you be sure that Java will run on Vista? :D and in your own way you are right but at some point you are going to have to let it go and move on and as I hear it the next cfm will be built around eclipse the same way flex is now (as the ide) and seeing how Adobe has already started release tags for it that it just might be the case. You can use whatever you want of course but to me its better to start going with the flow and getting used to it now rather than being forced to later. Do you think hs is gunna run on vista? ~Dave the disruptor~

Well said.  Also, as Dave mentioned, there probably will be a time when I am forced to switch, but that doesn't mean that CFE will be my only choice. M!ke "When you got hs and topstyle and this and that all opened you are probably using more system resources that if you just have dw open." I agree, for people who use several programs. But there's the kicker, I don't use all that other crap. I open HS and I do my work. I'm not one for using topstyle; I know how to write css. I'm not one for using some js or php specific IDE, I know how to write them. My whole point is that I don't want things like that open whether it's several programs or one monster that tries to be all things. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using DW or CFE. They're both great, for what they are. I'm just saying that there's no need to ditch HS just because there are newer IDEs out there. --Ferg

I hope I could persuade you that that is not so, there seems to be a   big issue with installing a JRE and Eclipse etc... so I might look to   team up with another site (forget the name at the moment) that do pre- packaged versions of Eclipse for different developers MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:29, Dawson, Michael wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

im not so sure anything will run on vista or that vista will even run ~Dave the disruptor~ Can you be sure that Java will run on Vista? :D and in your own way you are right but at some point you are going to have to let it go and move on and as I hear it the next cfm will be built around eclipse the same way flex is now (as the ide) and seeing how Adobe has already started release tags for it that it just might be the case. You can use whatever you want of course but to me its better to start going with the flow and getting used to it now rather than being forced to later. Do you think hs is gunna run on vista? ~Dave the disruptor~

>> 1. The large box for extended search/replace. Exist in limited fashion in Eclipse.  Only capable of doing single line extended search/replace. >> 2. The split  directory / file view... I rather dislike the dreamweaveresque view of everything one left in one loooooooong window. Does exist in CFEclipse.  It's the File Explorer view. >> 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included template"... Doesn't exist. 4. The ability to CTRL+SHIFT+TAB through the different tabs of homesite (not sure if eclipse can do this). >> Does exist in Eclipse.  Customizable to any keystroke. Now if I wanted to spend the time to go over all of the features that Eclipse/CFEclipse has over clunky old HS or Studio, I'd be here all day. If these are the only features holding you back, I'd urge you to re-evaluate Eclipse once again. Steve "The Boss" Brownlee http://www.orbwave.com/cfjboss

Actually, and I'm not being a smartass when I say this, I'd very much like for you to tell me some of the features CFE has over HS that are worthwhile. I don't use Flex, so that plugin's got no pull for me. I would like to know though, what features CFE has that would make my development life easier. Because like I said, I've used it and still use it at home when I can't be bothered to run VirtualPC, but I've never found anything in it that would lead me to think it was substantially better or made me feel like I was missing something when I went back to HS. I'm open minded though; you give me some things I've missed that seem like they're gonna make my life a lot easier and I'll be in there. --Ferg Steve Brownlee wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Err, up to date libraries Tag Editors, Snippets CFC support! Support from Adobe if you are doing Crud Methods etc. I mean, the list goes on, I cant force you to change, but then again,   I like WordPerfect running on Dos. MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 20:02, Ken Ferguson wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Err, up to date libraries -- of what? help files/insight, I got the HS updates if I need them. Tag Editors, -- no thanks in any IDE, I know the language. Snippets -- HS has snippets (code templates). I just type sel and hit ctrl+j and in pops: <cfquery name="q" datasource="#request.dsn#">   Select   From   Where </cfquery> comp and ctrl+j gives me: <cfcomponent displayname="" hint="">   <cffunction name="init" access="public" returntype="">     <!--- do nothing Pseudo constructor --->     <cfreturn this>   </cffunction>       <cffunction name="" access="public" output="false" hint="">     <cfargument name="" required="" default="" />     <cfset var = />          <cfreturn />   </cffunction> </cfcomponent> and I've got about 95 more of those set up as well. CFC support! -- what does that even mean??? Support for what, exactly? Support from Adobe if you are doing Crud Methods etc. -- again, huh? What support is needed? Maybe I need their support and just don't realize it, but I never find myself working in HS and wishing I had Adobe support for CRUD methods. I like CFE and as I've said plenty of times, I run it at home on my Mac, but when on a pc, I still just don't see any incentive to move. --Ferg Mark Drew wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Just thought I would say some things: On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:32, Steve Brownlee wrote: >>> 1. The large box for extended search/replace. > Exist in limited fashion in Eclipse.  Only capable of doing single   > line > extended search/replace. This is true, and I am looking into the search API. > >>> 2. The split  directory / file view... I rather dislike the > dreamweaveresque view of everything one left in one loooooooong   > window. > Does exist in CFEclipse.  It's the File Explorer view. Been there for a long time, you can also get used to the "loong"   windows by using the "Go Into:" feature that just zooms straight into   that folder, hell you can even open another instance of eclipse for   that so you can alt+tab across different sites, like having multiple   version of homes**te > >>> 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included > template"... > Doesn't exist. Yes it does, you can even write <cfinlcude template="../ notexistent.cfm"> and then right click and do an edit/create and it   will create the file for you in the right place > > 4. The ability to CTRL+SHIFT+TAB through the different tabs of   > homesite > (not sure if eclipse can do this). >>> Does exist in Eclipse.  Customizable to any keystroke. Eclipse has it and its even better, you can go back through a history   of files you edited to their edit points, by doing alt+ arrow left or   arrow right. > > Now if I wanted to spend the time to go over all of the features that > Eclipse/CFEclipse has over clunky old HS or Studio, I'd be here all   > day. > If these are the only features holding you back, I'd urge you to > re-evaluate Eclipse once again. It is difficult for people to move over because they are used to a   feature set, and getting used to another is hard. The problem is that I dont want to add features to CFEclipse *just*   to replicate HomeSite in Eclipse.  CFEclipse should help you edit   ColdFusion and implement Best Practice and there will be even MORE   features soon for you to do that. MD

> >> 3. The right-click on a CFInclude and option "Edit included > template"... > Doesn't exist. This feature has existed in CFE for a while now (1.7 nightly builds IIRC). That being said its sort of buggy. It only works some of the time(you definitely have to have the file saved since you out in the cfinclude). Unfortunately with Eclipse 3.2 and the nightly build of CFE I am not having much better luck right now, not sure if there is a ticket open for it though. The context menu is "Open/Create Template" and it will only open a file relative to your current project. I've been using Eclipse or some fashion of it for almost 2 years now and I love it. Between Java, PERL, CF, JS, BD stuff, XML, and ANT its awesome. One reason to use eclipse is ANT sure you can use ANT stand alone but the integration with eclipse is just awesome. Deployment in 1 click...oh so nice. I just can't say enough about ANT. Adam H

No it doesnt but it just seems like a lot of people and companies are getting behind the eclipse project and that's were we are headed. Personally I am not yet thrilled with eclipse since I do a lot of css-p stuff and dw rocks over eclipse there and I am used to dw's ftp where it uploads on save and I am perfectly happy with dw but I can see the change coming so I am working it in now. Plus the cfc stuff in cfe is really nice, im sure sometime soon we'll have model-glue and this and that with plugins and it will make us more efficiant. We are in a business that moves forward on a daily basis and I personally think if you stay sitting and comfy with old tools you will be left behind. Of course that depends on your individual job but you never know. ~Dave the disruptor~ Well said. Also, as Dave mentioned, there probably will be a time when I am forced to switch, but that doesn't mean that CFE will be my only choice. M!ke "When you got hs and topstyle and this and that all opened you are probably using more system resources that if you just have dw open." I agree, for people who use several programs. But there's the kicker, I don't use all that other crap. I open HS and I do my work. I'm not one for using topstyle; I know how to write css. I'm not one for using some js or php specific IDE, I know how to write them. My whole point is that I don't want things like that open whether it's several programs or one monster that tries to be all things. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using DW or CFE. They're both great, for what they are. I'm just saying that there's no need to ditch HS just because there are newer IDEs out there. --Ferg

AFAE (which is Rob Rohan's editor) also has a lot of CSS editors and   JavaScript editors. HE also has an XML editor that will help with model glue etc. I am   thinking of ways of helping people do Model Glue and do CFunit tests. There will be lots of features added to CFEclipse over the coming   months, I wonder how many new features to help you develop there will   be in Homesite? Hmmm... MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:47, dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I don't think it's lemming like at all - the move of many people to Eclipse.  It certainly wasn't for me (and I was a very early adopter) and the others here I convinced to switch.  I was resisted on every front, for the same reasons people have said on this thread.   "I have to learn all new keyboard commands." "CF Studio does everything I need." "I don't like Eclipe's layout.  I'm confused." "It takes 10 seconds to load instead of my normal 3 seconds for Studio." However, developers here have to do more than just write CFML.  They write complex queries, coordinate source control efforts, apply CSS, ANT tasks, Javascript and even some Java.  If this isn't your schtick, then keep on grinding with Studio.  It was a great editor.  However, once they tried it for about 2 weeks, learned all the features and got comfortable with how it worked, they all claimed they would never go back to Studio. Like some others said on this list, they had 5 or 6 programs open at a time to handle all these tasks.  Being able to do everything in one app is a huge time saver. Studio is perfect for people who crank out CFML 8 hours a day.  If you have to juggle multiple tasks, then Eclipse is the way to go. - Steve Or adapt and improvise. I just don't like the CFE experience at this moment and as Ken said, I find that CFStudio & Homesite+ do EVERYTHING that I need and does it VERY well. If I need to switch to another IDE tomorrow because of a product upgrade, a new product or a new OS, then I'll tackle it when I get there. I just don't believe in following the crowd just because everyone's heading in a specific direction; especially if there isn't a VERY compelling reason to do so. Very lemming-like to me. ;) Rey... dave wrote:

Hi Steve, > I don't think it's lemming like at all - the move of many people to It is lemming like if you do it just because everyone is doing it. I just don't automatically buy into something simply because someone says: "If I was you I would start getting used to eclipse." (sorry Dave) ;) Give me a good justification and I'm willing to listen. Your justification, though, was much better than Dave's so I can see your points and your rationale for switching. > Studio is perfect for people who crank out CFML 8 hours a day.  If you > have to juggle multiple tasks, then Eclipse is the way to go. I'll have to take a look at it further but for the moment, back to cranking CFML. ;) Rey...

> Studio is perfect for people who crank out CFML 8 hours a day.  If you > have to juggle multiple tasks, then Eclipse is the way to go. Or ASP or JSP or PHP or........ I know people of many non CF disciplines who swear by HS+ because it is a lightweight editor with integrated local and remote file system + fully customizable help, toolbars, parsers, yada yada .....

> >> 1. The large box for extended search/replace. > Exist in limited fashion in Eclipse.  Only capable of doing > single line > extended search/replace. And you can use regex as part of your search query, which should cover the multi-line stuff, but that's a pain in the %$# compared to HS.  But like I said before, I use CFE and just pop open HS when I need to do a complex find/replace. ----------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

Here, here.  Doing multiple line regex patterns is a nightmare sometimes. > >> 1. The large box for extended search/replace. > Exist in limited fashion in Eclipse.  Only capable of doing single > line extended search/replace. And you can use regex as part of your search query, which should cover the multi-line stuff, but that's a pain in the %$# compared to HS.  But like I said before, I use CFE and just pop open HS when I need to do a complex find/replace. ----------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

On the other hand, EClipse's searches are MUCH faster.  I can do a search throught 15000 files in about 10 seconds.  I believe eclipse builds some kind of index of your workspace allowing for faster searches.   ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Here, here.  Doing multiple line regex patterns is a nightmare > sometimes. Well isn't it handy that there are a few really nice regular expression editor plugins for eclipse as well? ;-) I think one of the most fundamental and freaking awesome featues of eclipse is it's OPEN SOURCE. If you'd like it to do X, you can go and and make it do X.  If you prefer Y, go for it, do Y. Frankly that alone should kick any "but it doesn't do X" arguments in the buttocks. Course, who really wants to learn java, or contribute to communities or whatnot. :P~ As for the project structure, Ben, you may think about a versioning system, and see how you're structure would fit there, to get more of an overview of how to do it in eclipse.   If you're using SVN, externals might be of interest, if you really like the "many projects in one project" idea. Really another nifty thing about eclipse and projects and that whole mindset, is that it's more geared to standards and such, vs. the "edit wherever I want, do what I want, etc." Take it from me, if you challenge yourself and your "clients", no project will be a tiny project.  And organization is pretty swell, when things get "big". Basically just cfeclipse+1, I guess, but MAN, eclipse is freaking nifty. Blows anything closed source outta the water (potentially ;) :denstar ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I think Denny makes and excellent point - if you want a feature added to homesite or CFstudio then you can complete the wishlist and hope that someone actually reads it. If you want a feature added to Homesite you can a) do it yourself (if you have the time/skills) b) hire someone to do it c)  pay for a feature to get added I should add that when I first started using CFEclipse and was working with Mark I asked for a feature to be added and the next day it was in there. You wont get that from  Adobe! Kola ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- eclipse > is it's OPEN SOURCE. > > If you'd like it to do X, you can go and and make it do X.  If you prefer Y, ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- system, > and see how you're structure > would fit there, to get more of an overview of how to do it in eclipse. If > you're using SVN, externals might > be of interest, if you really like the "many projects in one project" idea. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ya I really like HS's find/replace. I use it all the time to format lists and data real quick.  Search for CR/LF replace with comma and vice-versa....  love that. Take FORM fields out of the CF debugging and use find/replace to create my update/insert CFQuery structures. > >> 1. The large box for extended search/replace. > Exist in limited fashion in Eclipse.  Only capable of doing > single line > extended search/replace. And you can use regex as part of your search query, which should cover the multi-line stuff, but that's a pain in the %$# compared to HS.  But like I said before, I use CFE and just pop open HS when I need to do a complex find/replace. ----------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

Thats fine but I hate to tell y'all that cf studio is gone and it aint comin back..... And all this dw is such a hog... you know really its not, here is a screenshot of my activities http://www.jamwerx.com/dwhog.png dw is taking up barely anymore than firefox and eclipse runs at about half of dw, this is on a mac but still, if you have a half way decent puter from the last few years (not from when cfstudio came out) then it isnt too bad. Hell even my old mac mini ran it just fine. And the rest of your problems are in the settings. Use cfstudio, more power to ya. ~Dave the disruptor~ I have used CFEclipse for some time and I just don't like it...it's not very intuitive and I don't like how it forces you into a file system of it's choosing...I don't like it on DW...though at least their files system is a bit more friendly. I started using it at work when DW wouldn't properly save files and we had to actually open he files in notepad then save them again to get the web server to recognize them...not sure what DW was doing to them. I just don't like the set up or the interface. It is a very clumsy and non-intuitive interface. I could do without the tag editors that DW has, though they are a time saver...especially with tags that I don't use very often. It's just lacking. The only thing it has going for it is that it is free. DW is a hog...that is for sure...I have more than enough memory and cpu real estate. I still think it takes too long to load and save files, plus some of the other quirks that develop from time to time do get on my nerves. It's no wonder though, since Dreamweaver was originally designed for Mac users and not for programmers. I want Cold Fusion Studio back. That was the best tool ever designed for CF development. Eric " I agree. I tried CFEclipse once and bagged it, but later I told myself that I was just making excuses. I forced myself to use it for a few weeks and then I didn't want to go back. Plus, that forced me to really find out if CFEclipse could do the things I kept telling myself I couldn't live without, and I found that it often could. I've now been using CFE as my default IDE for well over a year. " Remember back when dw mx came out and we had these same discussions on here and the same things were said then, once they forced themselfs to use it for a week most didnt want to go back. ~Dave the disruptor~

> Does anyone know if there is a plugin that will allow me to > create a split > directory view like Homesite/studio where the directory is on > the top, files > on the bottom? I find it a much more efficient way to navigate. Yeah, I forgot about the Explorer view.  I never use it.  ;)  But to open it you click Window->Show View, and if it's not in that list choose Other and then it should be under CFML. ------------ This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

1/2 GB of memory for Firefox??  Guess all those pr0n pics and movies suck up the memory, eh?  :) (sorry for OT) Thats fine but I hate to tell y'all that cf studio is gone and it aint comin back..... And all this dw is such a hog... you know really its not, here is a screenshot of my activities http://www.jamwerx.com/dwhog.png dw is taking up barely anymore than firefox and eclipse runs at about half of dw, this is on a mac but still, if you have a half way decent puter from the last few years (not from when cfstudio came out) then it isnt too bad. Hell even my old mac mini ran it just fine. And the rest of your problems are in the settings. Use cfstudio, more power to ya. ~Dave the disruptor~

Yep, first pass search/replace takes a bit, but once indexed it flies. On the other hand, EClipse's searches are MUCH faster.  I can do a search throught 15000 files in about 10 seconds.  I believe eclipse builds some kind of index of your workspace allowing for faster searches.   > Here, here.  Doing multiple line regex patterns is a nightmare > sometimes.

im not doing it because everyone is doing it, im doing because I can see where all this is heading and if you cant see that then there really is nothing i can say to change that, its kinda like staying on cfm 4.5 and not getting all the new goodies of cfmx 7. But why I even said anything anyways is because we always have discussions like this on here where the old dogs wont learn new tricks and then when its not supported or discontinued then the world comes to and end and blah blah. Hell I probably would have loved cfstudio but its also 2006 not 2000 and as a business man I know better than to stay old school. Like I said use what you want and someday soon I will sit back and watch ya scrambling, since i am on a mac cfstudio is nothing to me. ~Dave the disruptor~ Hi Steve, > I don't think it's lemming like at all - the move of many people to It is lemming like if you do it just because everyone is doing it. I just don't automatically buy into something simply because someone says: "If I was you I would start getting used to eclipse." (sorry Dave) ;) Give me a good justification and I'm willing to listen. Your justification, though, was much better than Dave's so I can see your points and your rationale for switching. > Studio is perfect for people who crank out CFML 8 hours a day. If you > have to juggle multiple tasks, then Eclipse is the way to go. I'll have to take a look at it further but for the moment, back to cranking CFML. ;) Rey...

Well, us old dogs like a better explanation than: "If I was you I would start getting used to eclipse." That just doesn't cut it Dave. > im not doing it because everyone is doing it, im doing because I can see where all this is heading Never said you did but your rationale sure sounded like it. > Like I said use what you want and someday soon I will sit back and watch ya scrambling Doubt it. Not once in 17 years in IT have I been caught behind the eight ball my man. I find it funny how you'd think an IDE would even remotely cause me to "scramble". haha!

> Actually, and I'm not being a smartass when I say this, I'd very much > like for you to tell me some of the features CFE has over HS that are > worthwhile. I haven't used HS for quite a while, so correct me if any of these are there as well.  But Here are a few things I like about CFE, besides what I've already mentioned. 1.  SQL code highlighting 2.  Todo list--Just add <---! Todo:{your todo title} ---> anywhere in your code and you get a new todo item in the todo view.  If you click this item later from the todo panel it will open up the correct file and drop you down to the correct spot on the page. 3.  Version control--Eclipse has basic version control built-in.  Do you need to go back after a few hours of coding?  No problem, just find the correct version from the history and restore it 4.  Working sets--group similar files into a set for later use, which makes it easier to interface with them later (all other files are hidden) 5.  Scratch pad--if you need to quickly test some code, hit F11 (or whatever you map it to) which loads a cfm file, then view the results in the internal browser 6.  Snippets--You can have complex code snippets at your fingertips, just hit a shortcut and it will drop the code in.  It will even ask you for parameters (Ex. a query name) 7.  There is a plugin that lets you view the CF logs right from the CFE IDE 8.  There is an Outline and a Methods view that gives you quick easy access to your document structure, where you can click and jump to the right section 9.  It's open source--community driven, rapid support and quick releases, and it costs $0 10.  Adobe now supports CFEclipse as the standard CFML editor for coders (not designers).  In fact, did you know that Sean Cornfield is the project manager for CFE? Again, if you know that HS does any of the above, feel free to correct me.  I know it does snippets, but I'm not sure if they are as powerful as CFE. Also, someone mentioned that HS has inline documentation, and Adobe is putting this into CFE soon (Actually I think it's going to come from Flex, but it's supposed to cover CF). ------------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

Yeah, I think the TODO feature is VERY cool, and I like the component function outline. I even like the document outline. That is cool stuff. I could never get my scratch pad to work when I set it up, but I am gonna try again. ...................... Ben Nadel www.bennadel.com > Actually, and I'm not being a smartass when I say this, I'd very much > like for you to tell me some of the features CFE has over HS that are > worthwhile. I haven't used HS for quite a while, so correct me if any of these are there as well.  But Here are a few things I like about CFE, besides what I've already mentioned. 1.  SQL code highlighting 2.  Todo list--Just add <---! Todo:{your todo title} ---> anywhere in your code and you get a new todo item in the todo view.  If you click this item later from the todo panel it will open up the correct file and drop you down to the correct spot on the page. 3.  Version control--Eclipse has basic version control built-in.  Do you need to go back after a few hours of coding?  No problem, just find the correct version from the history and restore it 4.  Working sets--group similar files into a set for later use, which makes it easier to interface with them later (all other files are hidden) 5.  Scratch pad--if you need to quickly test some code, hit F11 (or whatever you map it to) which loads a cfm file, then view the results in the internal browser 6.  Snippets--You can have complex code snippets at your fingertips, just hit a shortcut and it will drop the code in.  It will even ask you for parameters (Ex. a query name) 7.  There is a plugin that lets you view the CF logs right from the CFE IDE 8.  There is an Outline and a Methods view that gives you quick easy access to your document structure, where you can click and jump to the right section 9.  It's open source--community driven, rapid support and quick releases, and it costs $0 10.  Adobe now supports CFEclipse as the standard CFML editor for coders (not designers).  In fact, did you know that Sean Cornfield is the project manager for CFE? Again, if you know that HS does any of the above, feel free to correct me. I know it does snippets, but I'm not sure if they are as powerful as CFE. Also, someone mentioned that HS has inline documentation, and Adobe is putting this into CFE soon (Actually I think it's going to come from Flex, but it's supposed to cover CF). ------------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

Jacob (Or anyone?), "7.  There is a plug-in that lets you view the CF logs right from the CFE IDE" Have you got a lazy link to the log file viewer? Cheers

Thanks Jacob! I am sure I could have come up with the features, but sometimes you   cant see the wood for trees, and also since I dont use HomeSite, I   cant remember what it can and cannot do! I might have to blog these if you dont mind? MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 21:21, Munson, Jacob wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

1. OK, I don't personally find this particularly useful, but cool. I have always wondered why HS color codes sql in a .sql file, but not in a .cfm file. I mean, it colors js css in cfm files. 2. Very cool indeed. I like that quite a lot. 3. Sounds cool - that might be nice. 4. Don't think I'd find that very useful. 5. Doesn't everyone keep test.cfm in the dev root for this anyway? 6. HS has these as well and I think the HS code templates are at least as good as CFE's snippets. 7. Neat? 8. This is one thing I really do like in CFE - this is really great. 9. Cool. 10. Once again, cool, but I don't think I really care too much. As for help, I think I actually like the CFE livedocs access better the way it is now. I can't remember the last time I used the built-in help files even though the ld's are slow on a scale that's almost geologic. --Ferg Munson, Jacob wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

+1 for the quickdocs, I liked that too. As for the rest, Ferg, you are probably better off with a tool like DW or (maybe) HS/CFStud. Working sets ROCK, the snippets are real powerful, somehow I think better than HS, but I don't know for sure. Viewing logs is probably more for people who develop local and upload somewhere else, but it's real handy, if you do that. I don't think CFE needs converts, if you ask me.  There's plenty to do already, and more people with the wrong mindset won't help the flow of chi, or whatnot. Mostly these[1] are attempts at "heads up" to the CF users out there, if you ask me. 'Specially for "power CFers". The mindset is just plain different from HS, DW, CFStu. tho, and I'd hate to see people with the wrong idea get involved. ICFE is currently aimed more at coders than "designers", if'n' you're a WYSIWYG designer, stick with DW/whatnot. And CFE is has some rough edges, which is why people with the commercial mindset worry me.  CFE coders don't make money off of selling CFE.  Chocolate or beer goes further than complaints to management, or whatever. [1]the posts about how cool CFE is.  It's not better, just different, and the way of the future (but that's besides the point ;). :denster ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

How in the world would I be better off with DW? I find HS a little better than CFE, but I find a fat crayon and construction paper better, or at very least less frustrating, than freakin' DreamWeaver. I thought I'd made that point fairly clear. I think you may be misreading me. I dig CFE; I just think it's not quite as usable as HS yet. That said, I'm gonna give CFE another shot for the remainder of this month. Is there any tool that will automate the move of my 97 code templates from the HS dat file into the CFE snippets, or is that something I'm going to have to either make or do manually? --Ferg Denny Valliant wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Hi Denny, I guess us commercial, non-power CF'ers with the wrong mindset will just stick with other tools then. Hey Dave, Snake & Ferg, how does it feel to be part of "commercial, non-power CF'ers, designers/coder wannabes with the wrong mindset" group? I'm feeling pretty damn good. Rey... Denny Valliant wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Yes, Rey, that's what I meant.  That's why I qualify WIS so much. :P~ Seriously tho, Hey Vinne, Hugo, and Desmond, how do you like waffles? I'm eating some right now, they're good(tm). :-)) Didn't mean to come off so harsh on the folks who are happy where they are, man.  It's good to be happy, and that's what really matters. I would FAR prefer you to use a tool you are happy using than to switch to one *I* use that doesn't make you happy.  And you like to let people know when you're not happy, so PLEASE don't start using CFE. You, a fellow user, being unhappy would make me unhappy. Just wait till you HAVE to switch, and I'll bet you'll be MUCH happier. Seriously, by then, things will be smoother, and there will be less to find dislike with. You'll feel more comfortable, more HS-like stuff will be there for you. Ferg, I probably did misread you, I'm usually only partly in this universe, so it shows.  My main point was how swell open source is, with the proper mind-set.  See, with open source, there is no room to complain, because YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF. If you don't like X, or want Y, YOU CAN DO IT! YES! No waiting for some other person to get off their ass!   At least it's never forced, as in you are NEVER forced to wait for something, or get enough support behind an idea to have it come to fruition. You can do it! But that concept is one that a lot of folks don't seem to get, and I think I don't get it either, so no biggie. As for the util for converting snippits, take a look at the users@cfeclipse.tigris.org mailing archive, there's some info in there, IIR. I did not mean to make anyone feel bad about preferring some way over another.  It's a free world, diversity is GOOD, and I still get a kick out of that story about the programmer and the drum - greatness doesn't come from the tool, man. So, sorry for being an asshole, I'm really nice, but put my foot in my mouth quite a bit.  I can see how my comments can be read many ways - I'm trying a little to be more like Churchill, but failing pretty bad. Ahhh... Someday... *sigh* There is a good saying about doing what you want so long as it doesn't hurt others, or some such - which I like, but find hard to live by. Sorry for knocking anyone, or anyone's choices. Didn't mean to. If anything, it's myself who needs to get with the program... funny how life is. But Oh that waffle was good!  Syrup ROCKS!!! :denstir Denny Valliant wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Hi Denny, > ...It's good to be happy, and that's what really matters. Damn straight! > And you like to let people know when you're not happy,.... Damn straight! > so PLEASE don't start using CFE. Still don't have a reason to. > You, a fellow user, being unhappy would make me unhappy. And I wouldn't want you to be unhappy unless you actually wanted to be unhappy in which case I would be happy for your unhappiness. > Just wait till you HAVE to switch, and I'll bet you'll be MUCH happier. Probably. > Seriously, by then, things will be smoother, and there will be less to > find dislike with. You'll feel more comfortable, more HS-like stuff > will be there for you. God I can only dream. Make it so #2! Rey...

> And I wouldn't want you to be unhappy unless you actually wanted to be > unhappy in which case I would be happy for your unhappiness. That just tickles me pink.  Thanks for the consideration Rey. Your logic is impeccable! > Seriously, by then, things will be smoother, and there will be less to > > find dislike with. You'll feel more comfortable, more HS-like stuff > > will be there for you. > > God I can only dream. Make it so #2! Bank on it dude!  I Know how heavy you are into HS. *gigglesnort* CFStudio may evolve more too, play it safe, and wait and see. Or HEY!  You could write up a NEW Coldfusion IDE!!! Sell it and make big bucks! It'll be double-plus good! Maybe Adobe will sell you the old code on the sly, and you can make it so, too! I get pretty silly sometimes.  Sorry for wrecking your thread. :-( It did kind of get into a cfstudio vs. cfeclipse, which you may not have intended, but hey, at least we all know that cfeclipse beats the pants off of cfeclipse, er cfstudio. :-) HA HA cfeclipse WINS!!! "Finish him..." :den I'm REALLY sorry to have gotten so silly, no more, I swear. From now on sole munching is all you'll hear from me, really.

Hi Denny, I guess us commercial, non-power CF'ers with the wrong mindset will just stick with other tools then. Hey Dave, Snake & Ferg, how does it feel to be part of "commercial, non-power CF'ers, designers/coder wannabes with the wrong mindset" group? I'm feeling pretty damn good. Rey...

half a gb? 116.10 mb is half a gb? hopefully you just read it wrong. oh i see what you are looking at, no the only thing in ff was smartermail. Macs use up all you available memory and release it when other apps need it so its faster, its not like a pc. Look at ichat at 400mb ~Dave the disruptor~ 1/2 GB of memory for Firefox?? Guess all those pr0n pics and movies suck up the memory, eh? :) (sorry for OT) Thats fine but I hate to tell y'all that cf studio is gone and it aint comin back..... And all this dw is such a hog... you know really its not, here is a screenshot of my activities http://www.jamwerx.com/dwhog.png dw is taking up barely anymore than firefox and eclipse runs at about half of dw, this is on a mac but still, if you have a half way decent puter from the last few years (not from when cfstudio came out) then it isnt too bad. Hell even my old mac mini ran it just fine. And the rest of your problems are in the settings. Use cfstudio, more power to ya. ~Dave the disruptor~

not only that but if you do anything besides just cfml code (css, xhtml, xml, etc..) ~Dave the disruptor~ What I meant by serious we development is enterprise level stuff... How many sites do you manage that have over 10k templates? It's almost impossible to work with using Tortoise, but acceptable in CFEclipse. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

" Also, someone mentioned that HS has inline documentation, and Adobe is putting this into CFE soon (Actually I think it's going to come from Flex, but it's supposed to cover CF). " isnt that already out ~Dave the disruptor~ > Actually, and I'm not being a smartass when I say this, I'd very much > like for you to tell me some of the features CFE has over HS that are > worthwhile. I haven't used HS for quite a while, so correct me if any of these are there as well. But Here are a few things I like about CFE, besides what I've already mentioned. 1. SQL code highlighting 2. Todo list--Just add <---! Todo:{your todo title} ---> anywhere in your code and you get a new todo item in the todo view. If you click this item later from the todo panel it will open up the correct file and drop you down to the correct spot on the page. 3. Version control--Eclipse has basic version control built-in. Do you need to go back after a few hours of coding? No problem, just find the correct version from the history and restore it 4. Working sets--group similar files into a set for later use, which makes it easier to interface with them later (all other files are hidden) 5. Scratch pad--if you need to quickly test some code, hit F11 (or whatever you map it to) which loads a cfm file, then view the results in the internal browser 6. Snippets--You can have complex code snippets at your fingertips, just hit a shortcut and it will drop the code in. It will even ask you for parameters (Ex. a query name) 7. There is a plugin that lets you view the CF logs right from the CFE IDE 8. There is an Outline and a Methods view that gives you quick easy access to your document structure, where you can click and jump to the right section 9. It's open source--community driven, rapid support and quick releases, and it costs $0 10. Adobe now supports CFEclipse as the standard CFML editor for coders (not designers). In fact, did you know that Sean Cornfield is the project manager for CFE? Again, if you know that HS does any of the above, feel free to correct me. I know it does snippets, but I'm not sure if they are as powerful as CFE. Also, someone mentioned that HS has inline documentation, and Adobe is putting this into CFE soon (Actually I think it's going to come from Flex, but it's supposed to cover CF). ------------- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

> " Also, someone mentioned that HS has inline documentation, and Adobe is > putting this into CFE soon (Actually I think it's going to come from > Flex, but it's supposed to cover CF). " isnt that already out I think it's in the nightly, and there is talk of another release, I think. Thoughtfully, :den

Hm, I like it.  It's kinda how I hoard all of the cookies in my house and only make them available to the rest of the family if they really need one. half a gb? 116.10 mb is half a gb? hopefully you just read it wrong. oh i see what you are looking at, no the only thing in ff was smartermail. Macs use up all you available memory and release it when other apps need it so its faster, its not like a pc. Look at ichat at 400mb ~Dave the disruptor~ 1/2 GB of memory for Firefox?? Guess all those pr0n pics and movies suck up the memory, eh? :) (sorry for OT) Thats fine but I hate to tell y'all that cf studio is gone and it aint comin back..... And all this dw is such a hog... you know really its not, here is a screenshot of my activities http://www.jamwerx.com/dwhog.png dw is taking up barely anymore than firefox and eclipse runs at about half of dw, this is on a mac but still, if you have a half way decent puter from the last few years (not from when cfstudio came out) then it isnt too bad. Hell even my old mac mini ran it just fine. And the rest of your problems are in the settings. Use cfstudio, more power to ya. ~Dave the disruptor~

> " Also, someone mentioned that HS has inline documentation, > and Adobe is > putting this into CFE soon (Actually I think it's going to come from > Flex, but it's supposed to cover CF). " > > isnt that already out Yeah, but I think its beta.  I read about it on Mark Drew's blog: http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/index.cfm/2006/5/16/Adobe-adds-documentat ion-to-Eclipse ------------ This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

Also, Mark recently added code insight for various variables in your code.  If you've created a query, later it will show up in an insight popup when you need to use it.  Same thing for CFParam, CFDirectory, and a few other tags.  But we have to wait until they roll this up into a release, unless you want to use the nightly.  Details here: http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/index.cfm/2006/5/17/CFEclipse-new-feature -under-development-part-2 ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1.

You make Eclipse sound pretty good, but honestly, I've tried it and the damn interface is just so clunky.  I think that too much screen real estate is consumed by the chrome.  Actually, I have never liked any java-based GUIs.  Ick. As many others have mentioned, "I" have not yet seen any benefit to convert from HS/DW to CFE.  I REALLY like the CFE snippets, but they always bomb out on me unless I go through a particular ritual of closing panes, opening panes and then editing a CFM file. As I said before, CFE is a pretty sharp concept and the developers have done an excellent job, but it's just not for me...yet.  And I don't feel like any less of a developer for avoiding Eclipse. As a matter of fact, I will probably re-install CFE and give it another shot.  I admit that it gets a bit easier each time I attempt to use CFE. My main gripe is the amount of manual installation and configuration to get plugins to work.  Also, the extraordinary amount of settings is quite daunting. I probably have the time, but not the incentive to spend hours just installing and configuring the GUI before I feel comfortable with Eclipse. As of now, the main benefit for Eclipse is that I can definitely remove the entire platform just by deleting a directory structure. M!ke

You kinda already seem like you are to me ray. ~Dave the disruptor~ Well, us old dogs like a better explanation than: "If I was you I would start getting used to eclipse." That just doesn't cut it Dave. > im not doing it because everyone is doing it, im doing because I can see where all this is heading Never said you did but your rationale sure sounded like it. > Like I said use what you want and someday soon I will sit back and watch ya scrambling Doubt it. Not once in 17 years in IT have I been caught behind the eight ball my man. I find it funny how you'd think an IDE would even remotely cause me to "scramble". haha!

Then you're not a good read of talent, Dave. Rey... dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

yup.. its exactly like that........ ~Dave the disruptor~ Hm, I like it. It's kinda how I hoard all of the cookies in my house and only make them available to the rest of the family if they really need one. half a gb? 116.10 mb is half a gb? hopefully you just read it wrong. oh i see what you are looking at, no the only thing in ff was smartermail. Macs use up all you available memory and release it when other apps need it so its faster, its not like a pc. Look at ichat at 400mb ~Dave the disruptor~ 1/2 GB of memory for Firefox?? Guess all those pr0n pics and movies suck up the memory, eh? :) (sorry for OT) Thats fine but I hate to tell y'all that cf studio is gone and it aint comin back..... And all this dw is such a hog... you know really its not, here is a screenshot of my activities http://www.jamwerx.com/dwhog.png dw is taking up barely anymore than firefox and eclipse runs at about half of dw, this is on a mac but still, if you have a half way decent puter from the last few years (not from when cfstudio came out) then it isnt too bad. Hell even my old mac mini ran it just fine. And the rest of your problems are in the settings. Use cfstudio, more power to ya. ~Dave the disruptor~

That would be very beneficial, Mark. It can be a bother to install the JRE and Eclipse, but I got through it with no problems.  However, if I want my dad, or some friends to switch to CFE, some may have a more-difficult time just because of the current two separate installs. Having a single installer would surely increase the number of installed seats of CFE. M!ke I hope I could persuade you that that is not so, there seems to be a big issue with installing a JRE and Eclipse etc... so I might look to team up with another site (forget the name at the moment) that do pre- packaged versions of Eclipse for different developers MD On 2 Jun 2006, at 19:29, Dawson, Michael wrote:

I would say it would be basically a version of Eclipse pre-installed   with CFEclipse and some other plugins, you would still need to   download the JRE But these arent "big" issues surely? MD On 3 Jun 2006, at 16:21, Dawson, Michael wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ok Decided to be less lazy :-) http://www.mikenimer.com/eclipse/logviewer/index.cfm Cheers   Jacob (Or anyone?), "7.  There is a plug-in that lets you view the CF logs right from the CFE IDE" Have you got a lazy link to the log file viewer? Cheers

Not big issues, but to some developers, they may see it as a bother. I would say it would be basically a version of Eclipse pre-installed with CFEclipse and some other plugins, you would still need to download the JRE But these arent "big" issues surely? MD On 3 Jun 2006, at 16:21, Dawson, Michael wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Well i certainly wouldn't take my car into someone who uses an old decrypted set of rusty tools, no matter how "good" they say they are. Even though I do believe you are a good developer and my meaning wasn't quite how it came out (my appologize for that). If hs was so great it would still be in development today and the fact of the matter is that it is not and for a few ppl to bitch about its "non updates" year after year is lame, its done, its gone, move on........ Sure dw isn't the fastest but its not bad either, hell its running in Rosetta on my machine and its more than fast enough. The fact is that hs and cfstudio got left behind for dead and 5 ppl moaning about it on here wont change it. Like I said, use it, i don't care but don't complain when its not updated. ~Dave the disruptor~ Then you're not a good read of talent, Dave. Rey... dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Hi Dave, > Even though I do believe you are a good developer and my meaning wasn't quite how it came out (my appologize for that). Thanks for saying that. Your post came out a bit rough. ;) > ...cfstudio got left behind for dead and 5 ppl moaning about it on here wont change it. The funny thing about this is how you've completed contorted the whole thread. Being the thread starter, I went back and re-read the initial post and the only thing I asked was if there was an update to the tag insight and help docs. Not once did I complain about it. I'm very aware of the state of Allaire/MM/Adobe products having been a past member of Team Allaire and still having some associations with the folks over there. So yes, I knew that CFStudio/HS+ had been put to end-of-life status but I still find them very useful for my work. And I don't believe you've ever seen me complain about much of anything on here have you Dave? I'm fairly aware of my needs and I'm doing well to date. Again, its funny how you've somehow seemed to have interpreted my simple question as a complaint. Go back and check it out. > Like I said, use it, i don't care but don't complain when its not updated. I won't. Once my tools become ineffective, I generally move on. CFStudio & HS, though, are still working great for me in their current state and with the new update the Ben Nadel sent me, its up to date with all of CFMX7's tags. Rey...

I second that Ray, I have been reading and saving every single post on here since the start as my knowledge base. If in the middle of the night I get stumped there usually is an answer found by searching. I have posted some replies from time to time to try and pay back for the free knowledge gained on here, but it seems lately when you ask a question, you either don't phrase it to someone's liking or someone breaks the thread by going off on a tangent (like maybe I am doing) or someone just starts a my tool's better then your tool scenario. I am using CF5, Getting a handle on CF6.1 am 65 years old and there is not enough hours I care to spend watching CF or anything related to it bashing as it has made me a very good living and continues to do so and I am not slowing down anytime soon. I am just getting tired of having now to delete non related to cf posts in order to keep my knowledge base pristine and of a manageable size. BTW, I am not flaming or picking on anyone in particular and if you need to pick on a "old" guy do it offline please <he says jokingly as he has a senior moment. What was I saying?> Terry Troxel BTW I am one of the 13 lovers of CF Studio 5 Hi Dave, > Even though I do believe you are a good developer and my meaning wasn't quite how it came out (my appologize for that). Thanks for saying that. Your post came out a bit rough. ;) > ...cfstudio got left behind for dead and 5 ppl moaning about it on here wont change it. The funny thing about this is how you've completed contorted the whole thread. Being the thread starter, I went back and re-read the initial post and the only thing I asked was if there was an update to the tag insight and help docs. Not once did I complain about it. I'm very aware of the state of Allaire/MM/Adobe products having been a past member of Team Allaire and still having some associations with the folks over there. So yes, I knew that CFStudio/HS+ had been put to end-of-life status but I still find them very useful for my work. And I don't believe you've ever seen me complain about much of anything on here have you Dave? I'm fairly aware of my needs and I'm doing well to date. Again, its funny how you've somehow seemed to have interpreted my simple question as a complaint. Go back and check it out. > Like I said, use it, i don't care but don't complain when its not updated. I won't. Once my tools become ineffective, I generally move on. CFStudio & HS, though, are still working great for me in their current state and with the new update the Ben Nadel sent me, its up to date with all of CFMX7's tags. Rey... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will bring it back for the 13 people who want it. ~Dave the disruptor~ I think Denny makes and excellent point - if you want a feature added to homesite or CFstudio then you can complete the wishlist and hope that someone actually reads it. If you want a feature added to Homesite you can a) do it yourself (if you have the time/skills) b) hire someone to do it c) pay for a feature to get added I should add that when I first started using CFEclipse and was working with Mark I asked for a feature to be added and the next day it was in there. You wont get that from Adobe! Kola

dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

I have to say, I would buy HS if they continued releasing it. dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

So would I. Rey... Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

An interesting point, my mother-in-law bought me a copy of CF Studio 5 (Macromedia) as a yard sale for a buck. Had both books and the original CD so I assume it's legitimate. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

It's all good Rey, I love ya and respect you and more than anything it probably wasn't your post in perticular but as others post and everyone from the pasts posts who just wanna bitch and moan about it not being supported anymore. Plus you know how i love to stir the pot and actually as usual it turned into a bigger discussion which helped a few people out and helped get the record a bit more straight on what eclipse can and can't do which never woulda happened, ya know what I mean ;) ~Dave the disruptor~ Hi Dave, > Even though I do believe you are a good developer and my meaning wasn't quite how it came out (my appologize for that). Thanks for saying that. Your post came out a bit rough. ;) > ...cfstudio got left behind for dead and 5 ppl moaning about it on here wont change it. The funny thing about this is how you've completed contorted the whole thread. Being the thread starter, I went back and re-read the initial post and the only thing I asked was if there was an update to the tag insight and help docs. Not once did I complain about it. I'm very aware of the state of Allaire/MM/Adobe products having been a past member of Team Allaire and still having some associations with the folks over there. So yes, I knew that CFStudio/HS+ had been put to end-of-life status but I still find them very useful for my work. And I don't believe you've ever seen me complain about much of anything on here have you Dave? I'm fairly aware of my needs and I'm doing well to date. Again, its funny how you've somehow seemed to have interpreted my simple question as a complaint. Go back and check it out. > Like I said, use it, i don't care but don't complain when its not updated. I won't. Once my tools become ineffective, I generally move on. CFStudio & HS, though, are still working great for me in their current state and with the new update the Ben Nadel sent me, its up to date with all of CFMX7's tags. Rey...

> It's all good Rey, I love ya and respect you and more than anything it probably wasn't your post in perticular but as others post and everyone from the pasts posts who just wanna bitch and moan about it not being supported anymore. > > Plus you know how i love to stir the pot and actually as usual it turned into a bigger discussion which helped a few people out and helped get the record a bit more straight on what eclipse can and can't do which never woulda happened, ya know what I mean ;) > > ~Dave the disruptor~ I know man. I don't take it personally. I'm just as fiery as you are so I can't help but reply. :) I know CFE is out there and do know that I have listened to your points (as well as the others). I will get to CFE or another IDE when the time is right but CFStudio just does an awesome job for me at the moment. I will be at CFUnited (see, I'm on top of things) so if they do have any discussions on CFE, I'll definitely look into it. Rey...

Well I totally disagree with you, if we all just kiss each others butts and don't debate things a bit then we also don't learn as much because bigger discussions don't come out of it and it all stays status quo (which im sure a few ppl would prefer). ~Dave the disruptor~ I second that Ray, I have been reading and saving every single post on here since the start as my knowledge base. If in the middle of the night I get stumped there usually is an answer found by searching. I have posted some replies from time to time to try and pay back for the free knowledge gained on here, but it seems lately when you ask a question, you either don't phrase it to someone's liking or someone breaks the thread by going off on a tangent (like maybe I am doing) or someone just starts a my tool's better then your tool scenario. I am using CF5, Getting a handle on CF6.1 am 65 years old and there is not enough hours I care to spend watching CF or anything related to it bashing as it has made me a very good living and continues to do so and I am not slowing down anytime soon. I am just getting tired of having now to delete non related to cf posts in order to keep my knowledge base pristine and of a manageable size. BTW, I am not flaming or picking on anyone in particular and if you need to pick on a "old" guy do it offline please jokingly as he has a senior moment. What was I saying?> Terry Troxel BTW I am one of the 13 lovers of CF Studio 5

Gee Dave the Disrupter, You disagree with my entire post.....hmmm.... You disagree with me using the questions and answers as a knowledge base? I said nothing about debating, I was refering to someone posting a question and before the question has been answered, someone comes along, picks a totally different spin to the original post and away it goes like wildfire and the original poster is left saying, "Did I start this?" All I am saying is the amount of useful informational that used to flow freely through here is being put aside by debates on the merits of asp, my tool is better of yours and CF is not doing things right. I love debating, but somehow I don't think that is what a lot of this is. I will now go back to my rocker and slippers and crank up some 50's tunes and open up CF Studio on my laptop and make some money, doing what I love to do. On a slightly fifferent note....my retirement park recently had Verison FIOS installed and I just got a 15 Mbps/2 Mbps connection that absolutely blows my socks off everytime I get online....for once in my life I am on the cutting edge and not trying to catchup. Terry PS Don't take it personal Dave, I like to stir crap once in awhile too...... Well I totally disagree with you, if we all just kiss each others butts and don't debate things a bit then we also don't learn as much because bigger discussions don't come out of it and it all stays status quo (which im sure a few ppl would prefer). ~Dave the disruptor~ I second that Ray, I have been reading and saving every single post on here since the start as my knowledge base. If in the middle of the night I get stumped there usually is an answer found by searching. I have posted some replies from time to time to try and pay back for the free knowledge gained on here, but it seems lately when you ask a question, you either don't phrase it to someone's liking or someone breaks the thread by going off on a tangent (like maybe I am doing) or someone just starts a my tool's better then your tool scenario. I am using CF5, Getting a handle on CF6.1 am 65 years old and there is not enough hours I care to spend watching CF or anything related to it bashing as it has made me a very good living and continues to do so and I am not slowing down anytime soon. I am just getting tired of having now to delete non related to cf posts in order to keep my knowledge base pristine and of a manageable size. BTW, I am not flaming or picking on anyone in particular and if you need to pick on a "old" guy do it offline please jokingly as he has a senior moment. What was I saying?> Terry Troxel BTW I am one of the 13 lovers of CF Studio 5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok Adobe, you got 14 people now that want hs back so get crackin on a new updated version, oh and of course it better not be more than a $25 upgrade................... ~Dave the disruptor~ So would I. Rey... Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Okay, I have to say that made me laugh. Smartass! ;) Rey... dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

You'd also get a mullett if they'd do it 4 ya ;) ~Dave the disruptor~ I have to say, I would buy HS if they continued releasing it. dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

I don't think you can turn a mohawk into a mullet. You'd also get a mullett if they'd do it 4 ya ;) ~Dave the disruptor~ I have to say, I would buy HS if they continued releasing it. dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will > bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

some people do more than cfm editing and some ppl choose to use a better os as well ~Dave the disruptor~ I have been using CFE for nearly 2 months now, and I still miss Homesite. In fact I keep it open at the same time for the quick reference to tag editor, function/tag insert and quick help. CFE has a way to go before it beats CFStudio/homesite for CFML editing. russ Definitely do the videos. I'm fairly open to new ideas but again, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't just jump to the next tool because its the "in" thing. If you're videos do a good job of showing me the benefits, I'd be more than happy to use CFE. Rey... Mark Drew wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

There is no better OS than the one I am using as far as I am concerned.   some people do more than cfm editing and some ppl choose to use a better os as well ~Dave the disruptor~ I have been using CFE for nearly 2 months now, and I still miss Homesite. In fact I keep it open at the same time for the quick reference to tag editor, function/tag insert and quick help. CFE has a way to go before it beats CFStudio/homesite for CFML editing. russ Definitely do the videos. I'm fairly open to new ideas but again, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't just jump to the next tool because its the "in" thing. If you're videos do a good job of showing me the benefits, I'd be more than happy to use CFE. Rey... Mark Drew wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Why does some of the arguments about HomeS**te Vs CFEclipse sound   exactly like OS X Vs Windows or Linux vs Windows or Vi vs Emacs? I like CFEclipse so much I actually started making it a better   product. So maybe I have a vested interest in being the minority, yes   I use OS X and CFEclipse, sorry, I dont use Windows and HomeS**te.   but I am still working on a product for the community that uses   Windows. Stop the madness and mud slinging. I shall try to do my best   to show to people why CFEclipse is different and why you might like   it after the initial trial of learning it, but if you arent going to   change, even if CFEclipse writes the code for you whilst it makes you   coffee and gives you a back-rub, I would see this as a waste of time,   that would be better spend on making it a better product for people   that use it. At the end of the day, I get no benefit on "more" people using it, it   isnt like I am selling the dammed thing. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 13:43, Snake wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

As I said, I have been using cfeclipse for 2 months now, so that hardly translate to  "I am never going to change". Changing your IDE is one thing, but you can't expect everyone to change their OS as well, like most people I have years of time and money invested in windows and the associated software, so no I'm going to be changing that any time soon. I like windows. Russ Why does some of the arguments about HomeS**te Vs CFEclipse sound exactly like OS X Vs Windows or Linux vs Windows or Vi vs Emacs? I like CFEclipse so much I actually started making it a better product. So maybe I have a vested interest in being the minority, yes I use OS X and CFEclipse, sorry, I dont use Windows and HomeS**te.   but I am still working on a product for the community that uses Windows. Stop the madness and mud slinging. I shall try to do my best to show to people why CFEclipse is different and why you might like it after the initial trial of learning it, but if you arent going to change, even if CFEclipse writes the code for you whilst it makes you coffee and gives you a back-rub, I would see this as a waste of time, that would be better spend on making it a better product for people that use it. At the end of the day, I get no benefit on "more" people using it, it isnt like I am selling the dammed thing. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 13:43, Snake wrote: > There is no better OS than the one I am using as far as I am > concerned. > > some people do more than cfm editing and some ppl choose to use a > better os as well > > ~Dave the disruptor~

That will be with 2 packets of splenda ;-) Eric <snipped>even if CFEclipse writes the code for you whilst it makes you coffee and gives you a back-rub, <snipped>

Ok well there would be more than 13 but the point is just as you say, they won't be doing something that they lose a ton of money on which pretty much means there aren't enough people buying it to justify it. Personally, I thought setting hs up was a pita kinda like how eclipse is now and to me they both have similar problems, the main one for me is that if i am doing css stuff then I gotta upload every change and then go browse it to see wtf is going on and then I gotta go to a pc to see how bad ie broke it. At least in dw it cuts most of that out. And ftp is such a problem with both ~Dave the disruptor~ dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

I never could get the FTP to work on cfeclipse.  I always has to use an ftp program to upload my files if they were on a remote machine.  Has that been fixed/improved mark? Eric Ok well there would be more than 13 but the point is just as you say, they won't be doing something that they lose a ton of money on which pretty much means there aren't enough people buying it to justify it. Personally, I thought setting hs up was a pita kinda like how eclipse is now and to me they both have similar problems, the main one for me is that if i am doing css stuff then I gotta upload every change and then go browse it to see wtf is going on and then I gotta go to a pc to see how bad ie broke it. At least in dw it cuts most of that out. And ftp is such a problem with both ~Dave the disruptor~ dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

Personally, I haven't used ftp in a little while since we've set up local development environments (which as SOOO sweet by the way).  But I've been using ftp with cfeclipse for a while, and I believe it was pretty broken in the stable release, but was getting better and better in the nightly builds. Try those.   Russ ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I must say I havent touched it, it used to work, I never needed it   myself (different deployment process) I want Adobe to release the API to the RDS plugin so I can do more of   a team synchronising with RDS servers and the same with FTP. More   like how Dreamweaver does it. There are SO many features I am sure people want, if we get more   contributors to the project then we can get it done. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 02:56, Eric Roberts wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Something else I just found...last night I went to d/l it and got eclipse installed.  Went to get cfeclipse through the recommended process and it said that there were no updates (fresh install of eclipse with no cfeclipse) Was there a prob with the server last night?  I ended up just downloading the plugin and adding it manually. Eric I must say I havent touched it, it used to work, I never needed it myself (different deployment process) I want Adobe to release the API to the RDS plugin so I can do more of a team synchronising with RDS servers and the same with FTP. More like how Dreamweaver does it. There are SO many features I am sure people want, if we get more contributors to the project then we can get it done. MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 02:56, Eric Roberts wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I always download the plugin manually... weird thing though... couldn't get the latest nightly build to work... is it currently broken? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

FTP is a problem with Homesite? Please elaborate on the HS FTP issues. I've worked mainly through FTP in Studio and Homesite for 5+ years without any problems. Eclipse on the other hand isn't as great with FTP from the few times I've tried. That's primarily why I've never converted. Greg ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Actually Rey I don't really use cfe that much yet, I will do most stuff in dw them to make myself feel better go into cfe and clean it up after I get the layouts done in css. To me its like if half the ppl keep trying to keep the oldy stuff alive that we arent putting enough focus on the current and future stuff and we keep falling behind. Most of the other languages are always pushing the boundries of making their language and tools newer and better and quite frankly it shows... Its hard not to respond huh? plus I got all this anger built up from talking to Will that I let it go on here sometimes!  hehe ~Dave the disruptor~ > It's all good Rey, I love ya and respect you and more than anything it probably wasn't your post in perticular but as others post and everyone from the pasts posts who just wanna bitch and moan about it not being supported anymore. > > Plus you know how i love to stir the pot and actually as usual it turned into a bigger discussion which helped a few people out and helped get the record a bit more straight on what eclipse can and can't do which never woulda happened, ya know what I mean ;) > > ~Dave the disruptor~ I know man. I don't take it personally. I'm just as fiery as you are so I can't help but reply. :) I know CFE is out there and do know that I have listened to your points (as well as the others). I will get to CFE or another IDE when the time is right but CFStudio just does an awesome job for me at the moment. I will be at CFUnited (see, I'm on top of things) so if they do have any discussions on CFE, I'll definitely look into it. Rey...

:) I remember a couple of years ago we had this discussion and someone was hardcore bitching about it and was adimant that it should just be a free release from now on but have all the features of dw as well but run as fast as hs and only be for cfm coders, was about to go over there and smack him. ~Dave the disruptor~ Okay, I have to say that made me laugh. Smartass! ;) Rey... dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

You can do as you please, I been here for several years and its always been this way. And sorry but I won't take your age as a crutch as I recall Dick Applebaum was your age as well and he was all over new technology, hell I was well behind him at getting to it. Yeah you can use some of this as a question and answer, i do that, i save the posts I want to keep. If you want just a simple question and answer and nothing else then go look at Rays coldfusioncookbook.com ~Dave the disruptor~ Gee Dave the Disrupter, You disagree with my entire post.....hmmm.... You disagree with me using the questions and answers as a knowledge base? I said nothing about debating, I was refering to someone posting a question and before the question has been answered, someone comes along, picks a totally different spin to the original post and away it goes like wildfire and the original poster is left saying, "Did I start this?" All I am saying is the amount of useful informational that used to flow freely through here is being put aside by debates on the merits of asp, my tool is better of yours and CF is not doing things right. I love debating, but somehow I don't think that is what a lot of this is. I will now go back to my rocker and slippers and crank up some 50's tunes and open up CF Studio on my laptop and make some money, doing what I love to do. On a slightly fifferent note....my retirement park recently had Verison FIOS installed and I just got a 15 Mbps/2 Mbps connection that absolutely blows my socks off everytime I get online....for once in my life I am on the cutting edge and not trying to catchup. Terry PS Don't take it personal Dave, I like to stir crap once in awhile too...... Well I totally disagree with you, if we all just kiss each others butts and don't debate things a bit then we also don't learn as much because bigger discussions don't come out of it and it all stays status quo (which im sure a few ppl would prefer). ~Dave the disruptor~ I second that Ray, I have been reading and saving every single post on here since the start as my knowledge base. If in the middle of the night I get stumped there usually is an answer found by searching. I have posted some replies from time to time to try and pay back for the free knowledge gained on here, but it seems lately when you ask a question, you either don't phrase it to someone's liking or someone breaks the thread by going off on a tangent (like maybe I am doing) or someone just starts a my tool's better then your tool scenario. I am using CF5, Getting a handle on CF6.1 am 65 years old and there is not enough hours I care to spend watching CF or anything related to it bashing as it has made me a very good living and continues to do so and I am not slowing down anytime soon. I am just getting tired of having now to delete non related to cf posts in order to keep my knowledge base pristine and of a manageable size. BTW, I am not flaming or picking on anyone in particular and if you need to pick on a "old" guy do it offline please jokingly as he has a senior moment. What was I saying?> Terry Troxel BTW I am one of the 13 lovers of CF Studio 5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dave my age is not a crutch, I don't act my age and I also love new technology when I have time to get involved with it. I just don't like being made to feel if I don't have the latest and greatest I won't be able to live another day. I also don't want a simple question and answer forum as well, it's fine the way it is, I am just in favor of less egos and more focus on giving someone a knowlegable answer to an honest question, simple as that. And on that note it's back to work for me, I got to get back on track. You can do as you please, I been here for several years and its always been this way. And sorry but I won't take your age as a crutch as I recall Dick Applebaum was your age as well and he was all over new technology, hell I was well behind him at getting to it. Yeah you can use some of this as a question and answer, i do that, i save the posts I want to keep. If you want just a simple question and answer and nothing else then go look at Rays coldfusioncookbook.com ~Dave the disruptor~ Gee Dave the Disrupter, You disagree with my entire post.....hmmm.... You disagree with me using the questions and answers as a knowledge base? I said nothing about debating, I was refering to someone posting a question and before the question has been answered, someone comes along, picks a totally different spin to the original post and away it goes like wildfire and the original poster is left saying, "Did I start this?" All I am saying is the amount of useful informational that used to flow freely through here is being put aside by debates on the merits of asp, my tool is better of yours and CF is not doing things right. I love debating, but somehow I don't think that is what a lot of this is. I will now go back to my rocker and slippers and crank up some 50's tunes and open up CF Studio on my laptop and make some money, doing what I love to do. On a slightly fifferent note....my retirement park recently had Verison FIOS installed and I just got a 15 Mbps/2 Mbps connection that absolutely blows my socks off everytime I get online....for once in my life I am on the cutting edge and not trying to catchup. Terry PS Don't take it personal Dave, I like to stir crap once in awhile too...... Well I totally disagree with you, if we all just kiss each others butts and don't debate things a bit then we also don't learn as much because bigger discussions don't come out of it and it all stays status quo (which im sure a few ppl would prefer). ~Dave the disruptor~ I second that Ray, I have been reading and saving every single post on here since the start as my knowledge base. If in the middle of the night I get stumped there usually is an answer found by searching. I have posted some replies from time to time to try and pay back for the free knowledge gained on here, but it seems lately when you ask a question, you either don't phrase it to someone's liking or someone breaks the thread by going off on a tangent (like maybe I am doing) or someone just starts a my tool's better then your tool scenario. I am using CF5, Getting a handle on CF6.1 am 65 years old and there is not enough hours I care to spend watching CF or anything related to it bashing as it has made me a very good living and continues to do so and I am not slowing down anytime soon. I am just getting tired of having now to delete non related to cf posts in order to keep my knowledge base pristine and of a manageable size. BTW, I am not flaming or picking on anyone in particular and if you need to pick on a "old" guy do it offline please jokingly as he has a senior moment. What was I saying?> Terry Troxel BTW I am one of the 13 lovers of CF Studio 5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dave my age is not a crutch, I don't act my age and I also love new technology when I have time to get involved with it. I just don't like being made to feel if I don't have the latest and greatest I won't be able to live another day. I also don't want a simple question and answer forum as well, it's fine the way it is, I am just in favor of less egos and more focus on giving someone a knowlegable answer to an honest question, simple as that. And on that note it's back to work for me, I got to get back on track. You can do as you please, I been here for several years and its always been this way. And sorry but I won't take your age as a crutch as I recall Dick Applebaum was your age as well and he was all over new technology, hell I was well behind him at getting to it. Yeah you can use some of this as a question and answer, i do that, i save the posts I want to keep. If you want just a simple question and answer and nothing else then go look at Rays coldfusioncookbook.com ~Dave the disruptor~

" When was Apple ever cool?" Thats what all the uncool kids say to make themselfs feel better. ~Dave the disruptor~ Why is Apple so damn cool? When was Apple ever cool? Eric

I cant get it to work right and thats a major deal for me. ~Dave the disruptor~ I never could get the FTP to work on cfeclipse. I always has to use an ftp program to upload my files if they were on a remote machine. Has that been fixed/improved mark? Eric

Have you guys tried the Eclipse FTP / webDAV stuff? It uses team, so it's got to be good. If it works. :)en ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I shall see what I can do about that just for you Dave MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 03:59, dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

yup ~Dave the disruptor~ Have you guys tried the Eclipse FTP / webDAV stuff? It uses team, so it's got to be good. If it works. :)en ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Good enough? not good enough? Why didnt you like it? what would be   better? I mean, apart from all the Open Source arguments etc, CFEclipse is a   developer's tool, and we are here to help developers, we listen we   try to add good features to help you develop. Do you want it *just* like homesite? Will that make lots of people   change? or *just* like dreamweaver? which one would make people happier? And would it make you feel better if we charged for CFEclipse? Would   that remove the stigma of it being Open Source? MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 04:13, dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

i think they shaved it a little too deep ~Dave the disruptor~ I don't think you can turn a mohawk into a mullet. You'd also get a mullett if they'd do it 4 ya ;) ~Dave the disruptor~ I have to say, I would buy HS if they continued releasing it. dave wrote: > And why would Adobe add it? It's done, gone and I doubt they will > bring it back for the 13 people who want it. I would venture to say that there are quite a bit more than 13 people that use it. I know of plenty that still love it. But I don't see Adobe ever restarting development on a non-money making product. Rey...

im sure ~Dave the disruptor~ There is no better OS than the one I am using as far as I am concerned. some people do more than cfm editing and some ppl choose to use a better os as well ~Dave the disruptor~ I have been using CFE for nearly 2 months now, and I still miss Homesite. In fact I keep it open at the same time for the quick reference to tag editor, function/tag insert and quick help. CFE has a way to go before it beats CFStudio/homesite for CFML editing. russ Definitely do the videos. I'm fairly open to new ideas but again, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't just jump to the next tool because its the "in" thing. If you're videos do a good job of showing me the benefits, I'd be more than happy to use CFE. Rey... Mark Drew wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Mark, I have always voiced what issues I have with ecplise, right now I have none with cfe, hell you are doing one hella job on it and that's why I stick up for it. Again, the only issues I have with ECLIPSE are: 1. A design view, which doesn't mean a drag and drop interface wwysiwyg interface, just to be able to see what my css is doing, nothing more, nothing less. 2. FTP that is simple and works, if it was like dw where it can upload on save that would be big shiny tits. Jared has some info on his site about getting ftp to work but for me its too much head ache. 3. Ok 1 more and that would be a better way to load up plugins, maybe its just me or maybe some of these things have issues with intel macs but the only one I can get to reliably work is CFE. The css ones don't and ftp don't. 4. ok and another thing I don't like about eclipse (which might be configurable, i dunno) and someone mentioned this before is that in dw i really like it closing my tag after the first part where eclipse closes it basically when u r almost done anyways. In both it would be cool if it closed the tag as soon as you narrow it down but lets you keep typing in the attributes. And with this particular thread my beef with OS's is that hs is a windows only and god 4 bid if i am going to go back to windows to use a ancient program. One of the good things about eclipse is that it is the same across platforms. ~Dave the disruptor~ Good enough? not good enough? Why didnt you like it? what would be better? I mean, apart from all the Open Source arguments etc, CFEclipse is a developer's tool, and we are here to help developers, we listen we try to add good features to help you develop. Do you want it *just* like homesite? Will that make lots of people change? or *just* like dreamweaver? which one would make people happier? And would it make you feel better if we charged for CFEclipse? Would that remove the stigma of it being Open Source? MD On 4 Jun 2006, at 04:13, dave wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----