Unofficial ColdFusion Developer Salary Survey

Come one, come all... An anonymous salary survey is available at http://keysym.org/cfs I didn't bother with any validation, so if you try to break it, you probably will. :) I'll leave it up for a few days so people will have time and for those in other time zones, etc. Matt On 8/1/06, PETER SHEATS <Peter_Sheats@pba.edu> wrote: -- Matt Williams "It's the question that drives us."

is it just for those who hold advanced cf certs?  (since that's what the original poster was looking for) :) On 8/1/06, Matt Williams <mgw4jc@gmail.com> wrote:

I personally don't care if it's just advanced - from what it looks like right now almost everyone who has responded makes more than me =) Peter Sheats Webmaster Palm Beach Atlantic University peter_sheats@pba.edu 561.803.2033 "Maturity comes from obedience to Christ, not necessarily from age." -- Leonard Ravenhill is it just for those who hold advanced cf certs?  (since that's what the original poster was looking for) :) On 8/1/06, Matt Williams <mgw4jc@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI: I just added an average to the bottom of the results. Direct link for those that have already answered: http://keysym.org/cfs/results.cfm Charlie, that's why I put in the years of experience. Of course we're making the assumption that more years means more advanced which could be debated. Again, this is not scientific at all, but interesting. On 8/1/06, Charlie Griefer <charlie.griefer@gmail.com> wrote:

You might consider dropping (or not showing) records whose annual salary field is blank. It'll throw off the average. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> FYI: I just added an average to the bottom of the results. Direct link for those that have already answered: http://keysym.org/cfs/results.cfm Charlie, that's why I put in the years of experience. Of course we're making the assumption that more years means more advanced which could be debated. Again, this is not scientific at all, but interesting. On 8/1/06, Charlie Griefer <charlie.griefer@gmail.com> wrote:

Ooops...never mind. I saw that you're dropping zeros and blanks already. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> FYI: I just added an average to the bottom of the results. Direct link for those that have already answered: http://keysym.org/cfs/results.cfm Charlie, that's why I put in the years of experience. Of course we're making the assumption that more years means more advanced which could be debated. Again, this is not scientific at all, but interesting.

On Tuesday 01 August 2006 18:44, Matt Williams wrote: > FYI: I just added an average to the bottom of the results. What would be great is if you left it up for a month or so, and then posted a summary / graphs. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

I guess I better not put in my salary for CFEclipse huh? that would throw off the average... "annual pay $0 + Amazon Wish List Bonuses" MD On 8/2/06, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com> wrote:

Mark, Wouldn't you like to see that $0 contrasted with how much money people have have saved by not buying some other IDE? Or maybe you don't want to know. ;) Tom, I can leave this up for a while. No problem. Johnny, thanks again for the data cleanup note. I took out the two 840,000 entries and changed one 690,000 to 69,000. I also deleted entries that had NULL for both salary and hourly rate as they weren't doing anything. On 8/2/06, Mark Drew <mark.drew@gmail.com> wrote:

That would be good.. I know how much I am saving... not going out.. not buying beer... etc etc. :) MD On 8/2/06, Matt Williams <mgw4jc@gmail.com> wrote:

It's reporting IL as IN ;-) Eric is it just for those who hold advanced cf certs?  (since that's what the original poster was looking for) :) On 8/1/06, Matt Williams <mgw4jc@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, c'mon, is there *really* that much of a difference? Heh heh... Eric Roberts wrote:

Big difference...IN is the South in the North ;-) Eric Oh, c'mon, is there *really* that much of a difference? Heh heh... Eric Roberts wrote:

and to that end, is it only cfmx7 advanced certs.  Actually though, has anyone ever received a raise based on obtaining a cert? On 8/1/06, Charlie Griefer <charlie.griefer@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think my cert ever made any difference. Certainly no-one has ever asked if I was certified. I think a reputation counts more than anything else. If your active in the community and an employer (or his existing developers) have heard of you, then it really does make a difference. Snake and to that end, is it only cfmx7 advanced certs.  Actually though, has anyone ever received a raise based on obtaining a cert? On 8/1/06, Charlie Griefer <charlie.griefer@gmail.com> wrote:

Fixed the IN vs IL issue and fixed the Springfield entry. Also defaulted the Country to USA (dang egotistical Americans) and updated previous inconsistencies to 'USA'. As far as filtering and such, I'll let you download to Excel or whatever and do what you like. Matt On 8/1/06, Snake <snake.lists@snakepit.net> wrote:

For those employed in companies (not freelancers), one thing I'm curious about is that if the salary scale reflect the actual full time cf developer roles versus 'jobs with other roles plus cf developer'.  I'm thinking that the difference will create a noticeable amount disparity between the two types. Hmmm.

CF developer is my primary role. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> For those employed in companies (not freelancers), one thing I'm curious about is that if the salary scale reflect the actual full time cf developer roles versus 'jobs with other roles plus cf developer'.  I'm thinking that the difference will create a noticeable amount disparity between the two types. Hmmm.

Senior Developer (.NET, ColdFusion, Flash & Flex) and that's only at my full time gig as I actually do another 4 things professionally contracting on the side. If only they paid me what I was worth... tragic. !k CF developer is my primary role. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> For those employed in companies (not freelancers), one thing I'm curious about is that if the salary scale reflect the actual full time cf developer roles versus 'jobs with other roles plus cf developer'.  I'm thinking that the difference will create a noticeable amount disparity between the two types. Hmmm.

Hi Andy, to clarify my earlier post, for those on the upper end of the salary scale (US$100k+) on the survey, it may be worth noting on the survey whether or not they function in any other vertical market field of specialization, as opposed to just a full-time CF coder.   Example, I am assuming that a CF developer who is also subject matter expert in Human Resources or point of purchase apps will hold much more of a premium versus someone who holds an Advance CF Dev Certification(????).  I am not trying to diminish the value of the certification, but rather trying to pinpoint or point out the reason why the developer on the upper end of the scale is paid as such.

If you get $100k over there just for being a cfdeveloper then your damn lucky. Over here (UK) the top end salary for such a role would be £40-£45k tops for a senior cfmaster. I see very few offering that. Snake Hi Andy, to clarify my earlier post, for those on the upper end of the salary scale (US$100k+) on the survey, it may be worth noting on the survey whether or not they function in any other vertical market field of specialization, as opposed to just a full-time CF coder.   Example, I am assuming that a CF developer who is also subject matter expert in Human Resources or point of purchase apps will hold much more of a premium versus someone who holds an Advance CF Dev Certification(????).  I am not trying to diminish the value of the certification, but rather trying to pinpoint or point out the reason why the developer on the upper end of the scale is paid as such.

But 45k British pounds = 84 U.S. dollars according to Google. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> If you get $100k over there just for being a cfdeveloper then your damn lucky. Over here (UK) the top end salary for such a role would be £40-£45k tops for a senior cfmaster. I see very few offering that. Snake Hi Andy, to clarify my earlier post, for those on the upper end of the salary scale (US$100k+) on the survey, it may be worth noting on the survey whether or not they function in any other vertical market field of specialization, as opposed to just a full-time CF coder. Example, I am assuming that a CF developer who is also subject matter expert in Human Resources or point of purchase apps will hold much more of a premium versus someone who holds an Advance CF Dev Certification(????).  I am not trying to diminish the value of the certification, but rather trying to pinpoint or point out the reason why the developer on the upper end of the scale is paid as such.

Yea, and that's still less than $100k But 45k British pounds = 84 U.S. dollars according to Google. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> If you get $100k over there just for being a cfdeveloper then your damn lucky. Over here (UK) the top end salary for such a role would be £40-£45k tops for a senior cfmaster. I see very few offering that. Snake Hi Andy, to clarify my earlier post, for those on the upper end of the salary scale (US$100k+) on the survey, it may be worth noting on the survey whether or not they function in any other vertical market field of specialization, as opposed to just a full-time CF coder. Example, I am assuming that a CF developer who is also subject matter expert in Human Resources or point of purchase apps will hold much more of a premium versus someone who holds an Advance CF Dev Certification(????).  I am not trying to diminish the value of the certification, but rather trying to pinpoint or point out the reason why the developer on the upper end of the scale is paid as such.

To be honest I don't think there are many people doing just CF that make that kind of money. With me it's a combination of CF stuff and security analysis and a high level clearance.

For those employed in companies (not freelancers), one thing I'm curious about is that if the salary scale reflect the actual full time cf developer roles versus 'jobs with other roles plus cf developer'.  I'm thinking that the difference will create a noticeable amount disparity between the two types. Hmmm.

Can we get some graphs overlayed onto a google map? j/k Thank you for building this for the group. =] On 8/1/06, Snake <snake.lists@snakepit.net> wrote:

Looks like the state is either not being saved, or not being displayed. Just FYI. <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> Come one, come all... An anonymous salary survey is available at http://keysym.org/cfs I didn't bother with any validation, so if you try to break it, you probably will. :) I'll leave it up for a few days so people will have time and for those in other time zones, etc. Matt On 8/1/06, PETER SHEATS <Peter_Sheats@pba.edu> wrote: -- Matt Williams "It's the question that drives us."

Had an issue with state. I fixed it and added in what I could based on City. On 8/1/06, Andy Matthews <andy@icglink.com> wrote:

I didn't do any cost of living stuff as you can research that based on location. On 8/1/06, Matt Williams <mgw4jc@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe a auto-normalizer to coalesce 'us', 'usa', and 'united states'? In your SELECT clause.... IF(state IN ('us', 'usa', 'united states'), 'usa', state) AS state cheers, banreyb On 8/1/06, Matt Williams <mgw4jc@gmail.com> wrote:

Great stuff, could you make a select box to filter the averages on country? Mingo. Matt Williams wrote:

Feature creep!!! <!----------------//------ andy matthews web developer certified advanced coldfusion programmer ICGLink, Inc. andy@icglink.com 615.370.1530 x737 --------------//---------> Great stuff, could you make a select box to filter the averages on country? Mingo.

Wonder if you count those who entered like 35 or 60 for their annual salary in your average or did you patch 000 at the end of those numbers? because those would significantly shift the average.

Johnny, Thanks for the catch. I added the 000. Not sure what to make of the "210". Should it be 210,000? I suppose it is possible if his/her hourly is $130. Matt On 8/1/06, Johnny Le <jle@byteback.org> wrote:

I think it is safe to say that it is $210,000 since he owns his own business.  Although that would bring the average salary and the salary of 7 years of experience up a lot.  It looks like independent contractors make more money than full time people.   Wonder what the average hourly rate is :-)   So sad for those with 3 years of experience :-(  Those with 1 year of experience rock! Johnny

Johnny I'm not sure if your talking about yourself (one year) but you are one of best CF guys I know (man, I'm hoping this is the same Johnny I worked with for a minute over at the business center). If not, never mind :)

I think your right on the money with the Multiple Jobs.  I cant think of anyone who could float as a CF developer that wasnt also a fairly decient SQL/DBA  And/Or a Decient layout and Design person. And I do charge About $15 an hour more for SQL/DBA stuff than i do for the CFML, and $25 an hour more for Graphics/Photography. So im thinking $100k+/- in Indianapolis is just about right overall.  <pst of the designers i know are making at or just below that. On 8/1/06, Loathe <loathe@speakeasy.net> wrote:

I know what you mean about multiple jobs.  Personally I'm working two jobs and starting a consulting/promotions biz all at the same time. It's funny how almost everyone that answered said something about second jobs and contract work. BTW, interesting aside, US Today (I think it was) rated software developer as the number one job to have in the US.  Now sure what their metrics were for that rating, but I can think of easier jobs :)

The multiple jobs brings up a very interesting discussion. You can make more money occupying multiple job types, but is it possible to be a great ColdFusion programmer if you have too much responsibility doing other stuff? For those of you who do concentrate on ColdFusion solely, should that not be reflected? Thing about how much you need to know to be a highly effective ColdFusion programmer and web developer: ColdFusion, ColdSpring, Reactor, Flex 2.0, Web Services, AJAX, SPRY, MVC, Model-Glue (and Unity), Java, SQL, Database Design, Javascript, DHTML, CSS... These are the hot topics that I could just name off the top of my head. My point here is that ColdFusion and web development can be done "to get it working" or it can be done at an "expert level". Part of the beauty of ColdFusion is the super small learning curve. But, in my opinion, you can never be an expert if you split your responsibilities between it and anything else. So I guess this begs the question, is being an expert in ColdFusion and Web Development less valuable than being just "good" at different jobs? I have NO answers for this... I am neither an expert, nor am among the higher paying jobs in the survey. It's just very interesting to me. ...................... Ben Nadel Web Developer Nylon Technology 350 7th Avenue Floor 10 New York, NY 10001 212.691.1134 x 14 212.691.3477 fax www.nylontechnology.com "Some people call me the space cowboy. Some people call me the gangster of love." I think your right on the money with the Multiple Jobs.  I cant think of anyone who could float as a CF developer that wasnt also a fairly decient SQL/DBA  And/Or a Decient layout and Design person. And I do charge About $15 an hour more for SQL/DBA stuff than i do for the CFML, and $25 an hour more for Graphics/Photography. So im thinking $100k+/- in Indianapolis is just about right overall.  <pst of the designers i know are making at or just below that.

On Wednesday 02 August 2006 13:55, Ben Nadel wrote: > that not be reflected? Thing about how much you need to know to be a highly > effective ColdFusion programmer and web developer: > ColdFusion, ColdSpring, Reactor, Flex 2.0, Web Services, AJAX, SPRY, MVC, > Model-Glue (and Unity), Java, SQL, Database Design, Javascript, DHTML, > CSS... You're right, we all rock :-) -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

Well, for example, my position does focus solely on CF web app development (and I use most of the things in that list) and I am right at the bottom of the salaries that are posted in the survey. There again, how many people have a permanent position (not contracting) where they can work at home essentially 100% of the time? I prefer security and good conditions over high returns (no, I don't invest in the stock market either). Also, the cost of living here is lower than in other parts of the country. On 8/2/06, Ben Nadel <ben@nylontechnology.com> wrote: -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

Yay, that's what I do too, work at home. Great innit But then I'm one of the company directors so that helps :-) - Snake Well, for example, my position does focus solely on CF web app development (and I use most of the things in that list) and I am right at the bottom of the salaries that are posted in the survey. There again, how many people have a permanent position (not contracting) where they can work at home essentially 100% of the time? I prefer security and good conditions over high returns (no, I don't invest in the stock market either). Also, the cost of living here is lower than in other parts of the country. On 8/2/06, Ben Nadel <ben@nylontechnology.com> wrote: > The multiple jobs brings up a very interesting discussion. You can > make more money occupying multiple job types, but is it possible to be > a great ColdFusion programmer if you have too much responsibility doing other stuff? me. -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

The following creeping features have been added to the Survey Results page over the past day or so: Salary Average by year Hourly Averages (overall and by year) Salary and Hourly Highest and Lowest -- Matt Williams "It's the question that drives us."

On Thursday 03 August 2006 13:07, Matt Williams wrote: > Salary Average by year > Hourly Averages (overall and by year) It would be cute to give people who only gave one an value for the other, based on a standard 5x7.5 hour week. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

That's too simple to figure out to spend any time messing with it. If someone is making $45/hr, that's 90K/yr. If they're making $60/hr, then that's 120K/yr. You just double the hourly and add a K. 40 hrs/wk * 50 wks * hourly rate. Whether it's because you don't get the full 40 or because of vacation... you trim the weeks by 2 down to 50.. On Thursday 03 August 2006 13:07, Matt Williams wrote: > Salary Average by year > Hourly Averages (overall and by year) It would be cute to give people who only gave one an value for the other, based on a standard 5x7.5 hour week. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

On Thursday 03 August 2006 14:26, Ken Ferguson wrote: > that's 120K/yr. You just double the hourly and add a K. Woa. That makes it a bit easier. :remembers -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

On 8/4/06, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com> wrote: > > On Thursday 03 August 2006 14:26, Ken Ferguson wrote: > > that's 120K/yr. You just double the hourly and add a K. > > Woa. That makes it a bit easier. > :remembers Yup, that's going right up there with the 9's time