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Author: Neil Middleton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296460
I've not had any problems with Eclipse, it's one of the most reliable
bits of software I have, although I have seen other developers
installs get nuked by plugins (always back it up first!).
However, saying that, it doesn't always run overly smooth, for
instance, I regularly have 5-10 second period of "thinking" occuring
when changing certain UI things around...
Neil
On 10 Jan 2008, at 15:23, Tom Chiverton wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296356
> One of my pet peeves is the dependency hell you can incur while
> installing plugins. Eclipse really needs a package manager like Yum or
> Synaptic.
With recent releases, it's a matter of making sure the 'discovery' remote
source is ticked as well as whatever new one you just added, and then
clicking 'add dependencies' on the next step (works for the previous version
of Win32 standalone Builder, which needed some extra bits adding for
Subclipse to work).
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Jerry Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296354
I have both good and bad experiences with Eclipse. Like a lot of open
source stuff it sometimes can be a total pain in the ass or it can work
flawlessly. I have had enough experience with OSS to know that if you
take the good with the bad, the good will far outweigh the bad (most of
the time). Eclipse is a lot like Linux in many respects. You can get it
do some really amazing things if you are willing to deal with the
learning curve and quirks.
One of my pet peeves is the dependency hell you can incur while
installing plugins. Eclipse really needs a package manager like Yum or
Synaptic.
But now that I have my base install(s) down pat, I don't know how I live
with out it.
Jerry Guido
Programmer
MGT of America, Inc.
jguido@mgtamer.com
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"Most people I've spoken to just think Eclipse (not CFEclipse,
I might add) is a buggy time-waster which invariably seems to crash too
often."
It's funny that you mention this. I've been using Eclipse/CFEclipse for
a few years now, and have rarely, if ever, had a problem. Yet the guy
next to me had horrific experiences out of the gate, until he did a
complete reinstall. He's not a fan of Eclipse at all, and I think that's
part of why.
On another, similar note: yesterday I did an install of CFE using Pulse,
adding in Subversive, UML2, and a few other things. Crazy easy to do.
I'll be happy when they're listing more projects, and I can see it as
another delivery method for Adobe for Flex and for the CF extensions.
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
_____________________________
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com
David Low wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
CFEclipse,
> I might add) is a buggy time-waster which invariably seems to crash
too
> often. If you've used Homesite for 7 or 8 years with great stability
> then there's no compelling real reason to change.
>
>
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296353
> Upgrading plugins seemed to be a big bugbear.
Eclipse 3.2 and later seem to have this well and truly sorted, as long as the
plugin is installable from an update site.
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Author: David Low
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296352
Cutter (CFRelated) wrote:
> It's funny that you mention this. I've been using Eclipse/CFEclipse for
> a few years now, and have rarely, if ever, had a problem. Yet the guy
> next to me had horrific experiences out of the gate, until he did a
> complete reinstall. He's not a fan of Eclipse at all, and I think that's
> part of why.
That's basically the same story; I set it up OK, but other people seemed
to hit trouble, whether with JVMs or plugins not working right.
Upgrading plugins seemed to be a big bugbear.
> On another, similar note: yesterday I did an install of CFE using Pulse,
> adding in Subversive, UML2, and a few other things. Crazy easy to do.
> I'll be happy when they're listing more projects, and I can see it as
> another delivery method for Adobe for Flex and for the CF extensions.
Have to say that's new to me, giving it a try right now. I'll pass it
on to the Eclipse detractors too!
Author: Cutter (CFRelated)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296351
"Most people I've spoken to just think Eclipse (not CFEclipse,
I might add) is a buggy time-waster which invariably seems to crash too
often."
It's funny that you mention this. I've been using Eclipse/CFEclipse for
a few years now, and have rarely, if ever, had a problem. Yet the guy
next to me had horrific experiences out of the gate, until he did a
complete reinstall. He's not a fan of Eclipse at all, and I think that's
part of why.
On another, similar note: yesterday I did an install of CFE using Pulse,
adding in Subversive, UML2, and a few other things. Crazy easy to do.
I'll be happy when they're listing more projects, and I can see it as
another delivery method for Adobe for Flex and for the CF extensions.
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
_____________________________
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com
David Low wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Sonny Savage
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296347
I'd say that this argument works against Dreamweaver as well. It has a
flashy interface, but does it look like a standard windows app?
On Jan 10, 2008 7:56 AM, David Low <eskeleton@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: David Low
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296342
Dawson, Michael wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
It's not a native Windows application, but I can see your point. It
doesn't bother me personally but I know it has bothered others enough to
keep them working in Dreamweaver or Homesite.
That might not please some of the purists on these lists but everyone
has their own preference.
One last point - I have used Eclipse for a while and consider it my
day-to-day IDE, but have never managed to persuade a colleague to
convert. Most people I've spoken to just think Eclipse (not CFEclipse,
I might add) is a buggy time-waster which invariably seems to crash too
often. If you've used Homesite for 7 or 8 years with great stability
then there's no compelling real reason to change.
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296254
CF-Talkers,
Rather than bore the list with a long email I have written a blog post with
some of my thoughts on this topic. Remember that I am old and set in my ways
so take it for what it's worth :)
http://www.coldfusionmuse.com/index.cfm/2008/1/9/Coldfusion.IDE.Debate
-Mark
Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com
Author: Jerry Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296250
>> There is little, or no, use of common Windows icons for Open, Save,
Print, Search, etc.
That is like looking at a Lunar module and complaining about the color.
Never mind that it can land on the moon.... It looks funny.
Seriously, I cannot remember the last time I clicked on any of those
icons.
Jerry Guido
Programmer
MGT of America, Inc.
jguido@mgtamer.com
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You have a very valid point M!ke. If you hopped into a car that had a
control stick instead of a steering wheel, would THAT make a difference?
>And who can argue with the "looks alien in Windows"...that's a show
stopper. (rolls eyes)
I'm not a fan of the visual interface of Eclipse. It looks as if the
authors either didn't take the time, didn't care or purposely avoided
making
Eclipse look like a native Windows application.
There is little, or no, use of common Windows icons for Open, Save,
Print,
Search, etc.
The visual aspect of an application does have some influence.
M!ke
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296249
> You have a very valid point M!ke. If you hopped into a car that had a
> control stick instead of a steering wheel, would THAT make a difference?
If the car had enough features to justify the investment, I'd spend some time
getting used to it.
It's probably your Java run times fault it looks 'alien', grabbing the most
recent JRE might help.
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to enthusiastically harvest cutting-edge networks
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Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296248
That's because it's a Java application. While it does mean that the GUI will
look different than a traditional, native W32 application, it also means
that it looks the same on all platforms (Win, Mac, Linux, etc.). Is it the
greatest GUI ever? Hell no. But is it OK? Yes.
To me (and most people, I suspect), this is about as low on the priority
list as it is possible to get. I haven't used an open or save icon for ten
years. I press Control-S. The point being, if the IDE works well and helps
me work faster, and obeys certain minimal GUI conventions, I really couldn't
care less what it looks like in specific areas like icons or chrome
textures.
On Jan 9, 2008 9:39 AM, Dawson, Michael <md40@evansville.edu> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296245
You have a very valid point M!ke. If you hopped into a car that had a
control stick instead of a steering wheel, would THAT make a difference?
>And who can argue with the "looks alien in Windows"...that's a show
stopper. (rolls eyes)
I'm not a fan of the visual interface of Eclipse. It looks as if the
authors either didn't take the time, didn't care or purposely avoided making
Eclipse look like a native Windows application.
There is little, or no, use of common Windows icons for Open, Save, Print,
Search, etc.
The visual aspect of an application does have some influence.
M!ke
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296240
>And who can argue with the "looks alien in Windows"...that's a show
stopper. (rolls eyes)
I'm not a fan of the visual interface of Eclipse. It looks as if the
authors either didn't take the time, didn't care or purposely avoided
making Eclipse look like a native Windows application.
There is little, or no, use of common Windows icons for Open, Save,
Print, Search, etc.
The visual aspect of an application does have some influence.
M!ke
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296228
>>You don't check in FireFox (20%+ of Europe uses it) ?
I was speaking about my own customers.
In average and roughly, their sites are visited at 80% by MSIE, 10%
Firefox, 10% others.
But 100% of the administrators are using MSIE, and none is in Europe.
So I FIRST check for MSIE compatibility.
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296221
> >>Eclipse's 'view module' uses the same rendering engine as FireFox
> Then why not using Firefox directly?
The 'I' in IDE :-)
I do use a separate FireFox, to be honest, I was just mentioning that IDEs
don't always roll their own renderers these days.
> And what's about Explorer?
For all I know it's switchable on Windows.
> I have several sites using my CMS, and NO administrator uses anything
> else than IExplorer.
You don't check in FireFox (20%+ of Europe uses it) ?
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296220
> If you want to see the follow up to 2007's "fuzzy oranges", you will be
> there ;)
Well, now I have to go :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296213
>>I don't quite get what you mean by "it looks an alien (sic)" in the
Windows environment.
Sorry, it has been a while since I tested it, and I think I was thinking
of some other system.
I re-opened Eclipse, and it does not look too alien after all ;-)
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Author: Casey Dougall
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296212
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Under preferences,
File Types/Editors
Add .cfm to the "Open in Code View"
You get what you are looking for but totally loose out on the wysiwyg view.
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296210
I don't quite get what you mean by "it looks an alien (sic)" in the
Windows environment. I've only worked in Windows so may just not know
any better, but it seems quite intuitive to me, and I'm haaard to please
in that respect.
Rick
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296206
> .... by the way, if Adobe is to develop something else,
> take CF Studio for model,
> the design is already made, and EVERYBODY will be happy ;-)
I'd be a lot happier with Dreamweaver as the model -- though I'd really
like for them to fix the nonsense that causes it to continually open the
"design view" despite the fact that I manually closed it. Or give me a
way to genuinely disable it all-together since I've never used it and
never will.
I'd also like to see them "finish" the "automatically save files to
server on save" feature, which doesn't include any of the operations of
move, copy, rename or delete in the file browser. Though as it is right
now, there's not an IDE anywhere as far as I know that does a complete
auto-sync between a local copy and a remote copy. This is a big thing
for me in development (though not in production) and I haven't been able
to figure out a better way to get it done yet. I created a Dreamweaver
extension once upon a time that did it for me, but it was
flaky/unreliable for reasons that were internal to Dreamweaver that I
couldn't control.
I use Eclipse / CFEclipse / Aptana at the office where I work currently and
find it mostly gets in my way and makes it a challenge for me to perform
otherwise simple tasks.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 503.236.3691
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: John Mason
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296191
>the consensus seemed to be that a CF IDE needs to either be Eclipse based
>(aligned well with Flex Builder and more) or Dreamweaver based (or possibly
both)
My vote is Eclipse. I never liked DW and used CFS from it's start but
quickly switched to CFEclipse when it came about. CFEclipse needs a design
view to help those people that like the WYSIWYG look and feel, but other
than that it's a great IDE.
Upgrading DW or CFS is simply crazy in light of Delphi. That has been a long
standing problem and Macromedia never wanted to address it. It's simply time
for these IDEs to die off. We are, as programmers, 'creatures of habit' but
change is a good thing. It's time to move on. There will also be diehards in
this, but I think Adobe needs to make a decision and clear this up once and
for all.
Eclipse has a broader range support base. With Flex/AIR using Eclipse it
makes for a nice standard IDE for all these Adobe technologies. I'm also
assuming Adobe has some very experience Eclipse guys now. Given the cool
features in FB3, I could only assume Adobe could make CFEclipse even better.
It would be great if it were free, but frankly I make money with CF
development so I would have no problem paying a fair price for an IDE
specially if it helps keep the server pricing down.
John Mason
mason@fusionlink.com
770.337.8363
www.FusionLink.com - ColdFusion and Flex hosting
Now offering ColdFusion 8 Enterprise hosting
FREE Subversion hosting
Author: Dave Long
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296182
(snip)
"I believe that some people need to realize that their personal must have
feature is not necessarily even needed by other developers within this
community."
<snip)
I rather thought this was the impetus for the survey.
My passion for CF Studio 5 is not likely to be shared by a great number of
developers and therefore my plea is very likely to be passed over. However,
if a significant number of participants note a particular feature for a
specific tool, I'll bet Adobe will perk up and listen.
Dave Long, O.F.P.W.
(Old Fart Programmer Wannabe)
http://www.northgoods.com
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Author: Jerry Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296172
>> the design is already made, and EVERYBODY will be happy ;-)
>> This would not make me happy.
Ditto. While CFS *was* great in it's time it would need far too much
work to bring it up to speed with the state of the art IMHO.
>> Everyone is not happy with CFEclipse, that is the whole point.
Ditto,
While CFE is a good IDE it can be a LOT better. No offence and hats off
to Mark Drew and crew (I love CFE). But... and this is a big but, I have
used a lot of IDE's over the years and compared to the likes of MS
Visual Studio, ActiveState Komodo, NetBeans, NuSphere PhpED etc. etc.,
CFE leaves me seriously wanting.
The fact of the matter is that CF does not have an IDE of nearly the
same caliber of the aforementioned offerings. And *that* is the problem.
Jerry Guido
Programmer
MGT of America, Inc.
jguido@mgtamer.com
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On Jan 8, 2008 1:42 PM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
>
> Good point.
> If everybody is happy with CFeclipse, let everybody use CFeclipse.
> If it is not the case, let Adobe develop something else, but not the
> same thing.
Everyone is not happy with CFEclipse, that is the whole point. There are
tons of things that could be added to it to make it better. This
argument
makes no sense at all. Whether they take CFEclipse and improve it, or
build
their own and use bits of CFEclipse that can be reused is irrelevant.
> .... by the way, if Adobe is to develop something else, take CF Studio
> for model,
> the design is already made, and EVERYBODY will be happy ;-)
>
This would not make me happy. It would be a horrible mistake not to
leverage
everything that Eclipse provides as the basis for an IDE.
Author: João_Fernandes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296170
> Eclipse is much more
> general, much too general, it aims at development
> of any application, possibly in any language.
For me this is a good thing, It allows for those who needs to develop in
several languages to have an unified IDE.
> Another thing is that it looks an alien in the Windows environment.
Rather look like an alien and do a good job than a fancy looking and
waist my time to do anything trivial.
--
João Fernandes
http://www.onflexwithcf.org
http://www.riapt.org
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296169
I think the problem is a bit of people who do not use CFEclipse currently
have come to expect a product they just install and use for CFM, HTML,
JavaScript, and maybe a couple other things just trying to list some random
possibilities. They do not expect to install a product then go searching
for a few other modules to install and then get all of that. Although I am
sure if Adobe made something it would cover those grounds be it something
Eclipse based or something one-off. I just hope it has a better extended
find/replace than what is in Eclipse out of the box because that is the one
thing that jumps out to me as something I do not like the few times I fire
up CFEclipse. Anything else that jumps out to me is simply because of my
lack of effort to go and find the appropriate add-ons such as something for
JavaScript and so on, but clearly it does not bug me much because just
reading this list would point me to what to get.
Personally I would like to see something that included all development tools
for doing CF specific work. What I mean by that is something that includes
the report builder(even though only used the current one once) and also any
of the wizards they have made that are Eclipse or DW(?) based.
On Jan 8, 2008 1:05 PM, Brian Kotek <brian428@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296167
Sure, I can see how having a one-stop editor for Flex, ColdFusion,
JavaScript, XML, and HTML, with Subversion, ANT, bug tracking, and task
management integration would be a terrible idea. And who can argue with the
"looks alien in Windows"...that's a show stopper. (rolls eyes)
On Jan 8, 2008 12:46 PM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rich
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296166
> I am not sure why they would build an IDE on eclipse when we already have
> one.
My reasoning would be to start from a clean code base designed from the
ground up to be interoperable with existing applications, instead of being
tied to the legacy code.
Rich Kroll
Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296164
On Jan 8, 2008 1:42 PM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
>
> Good point.
> If everybody is happy with CFeclipse, let everybody use CFeclipse.
> If it is not the case, let Adobe develop something else, but not the
> same thing.
Everyone is not happy with CFEclipse, that is the whole point. There are
tons of things that could be added to it to make it better. This argument
makes no sense at all. Whether they take CFEclipse and improve it, or build
their own and use bits of CFEclipse that can be reused is irrelevant.
> .... by the way, if Adobe is to develop something else, take CF Studio
> for model,
> the design is already made, and EVERYBODY will be happy ;-)
>
This would not make me happy. It would be a horrible mistake not to leverage
everything that Eclipse provides as the basis for an IDE.
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296163
>>I am not sure why they would build an IDE on eclipse when we already
have one.
Good point.
If everybody is happy with CFeclipse, let everybody use CFeclipse.
If it is not the case, let Adobe develop something else, but not the
same thing.
... by the way, if Adobe is to develop something else, take CF Studio
for model,
the design is already made, and EVERYBODY will be happy ;-)
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Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296160
That was my point of view (except that I'm fine with both CFEclipse/DW CS3
co-existing) and Ben Forta said I was "jumping the gun."
On Jan 8, 2008 12:46 PM, Dan Vega <danvega@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure why they would build an IDE on eclipse when we already have
> one. Actually I don't see why anyone uses anything but cfeclipse but thats
> just me :)
>
> Dan
>
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296154
>>A base program, such as CFEclipse
But CFEclipse is not a base program, it is a plugin for Eclipse.
This is one of the reasons I don't like it: Eclipse is much more
general, much too general, it aims at development
of any application, possibly in any language.
The other thing I don't like is its nasty habit to name differently what
I've been using for years.
Another thing is that it looks an alien in the Windows environment.
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Author: Dan Vega
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296155
I am not sure why they would build an IDE on eclipse when we already have
one. Actually I don't see why anyone uses anything but cfeclipse but thats
just me :)
Dan
On Jan 8, 2008 12:21 PM, Brian Kotek <brian428@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296153
>>Eclipse's 'view module' uses the same rendering engine as FireFox
Then why not using Firefox directly?
And what's about Explorer?
Who develops CF applications without checking what it looks like under
Explorer?
I have several sites using my CMS, and NO administrator uses anything
else than IExplorer.
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Author: Josh Nathanson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296150
> Developing a view module in the editor is just a waist of time.
I have to call shenanigans on that one. Sometimes you need to drop in a
table with some funky rowspans or something, and Dreamweaver makes it
extremely easy to get a table set up exactly how you want it without having
to go back and forth between the editor and the browser.
When you add up all the time spent going between applications it becomes
rather significant over the long haul.
And, what about the casual designer who might want to use CF to add in a
contact form or the like. This is a large part of the CF user base and
can't be ignored by Adobe.
-- Josh
Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296147
I'd agree. Given everything that Eclipse offers, like SVN integration, Trac
integration, ANT integration, and editors for everything under the sun, I
think it would be completely insane for them to use anything else to build a
CF IDE.
On Jan 8, 2008 11:49 AM, Rick Faircloth <Rick@whitestonemedia.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296143
Agreed. I've just started use CFE, but I see absolutely no
use for an HTML viewer.
Time better spent would be on code-folding, if there's time to
do anything.
Rick
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296141
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
I agree with you, Rich. We are much better off having a community of developers
working towards providing features that are needed as plug-ins to suit the
various
developer's styles.
Adobe, in a self-contained product, would have a very difficult time, if not
impossible,
creating an IDE that could be all-things to all-people. At the end of the day,
Adobe,
is only going to produce what is going to make money, not what is necessarily
best for
the community. On the other hand, developers tend to develop what is best for
the community,
certainly without concern for monetary gain from the product, as is witnessed by
the
extensive amount of work Mark has put into CFEclipse.
A base program, such as CFEclipse with developer created plug-ins is the way to
go.
If there a problem with a developer maintained environment, the problems tend to
get
solved very quickly. If there's a problem or feature lacking in a program
maintained
and enhanced only by a company, then the problem or feature may not be addressed
for
a year or more, or at least until the next "major release" comes out.
(Translated "We'll
solve that problem or add that feature, but we're going to make sure you pay for
it...)
Rick
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296138
Claude,
Very succinct... I agree with that.
-mark
>>View (HTML) code should be separate to Control and Model code (CFML).
Absolutely. I never understood the need for a view module in editors.
First, it is so easy to have IE, Mozilla or both open on the page, save the
page form the editor and just refresh it form the browser.
Secondly, what's important is what the page will look like in browsers used
by visitors, not in the editor's view module.
Developing a view module in the editor is just a waist of time.
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296137
> Secondly, what's important is what the page will look like in browsers
> used by visitors,
> not in the editor's view module.
Eclipse's 'view module' uses the same rendering engine as FireFox (on Linux
anyway).
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Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296132
>>View (HTML) code should be separate to Control and Model code (CFML).
Absolutely. I never understood the need for a view module in editors.
First, it is so easy to have IE, Mozilla or both open on the page, save
the page form the editor
and just refresh it form the browser.
Secondly, what's important is what the page will look like in browsers
used by visitors,
not in the editor's view module.
Developing a view module in the editor is just a waist of time.
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Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296130
Unfortunately, no, we don't. And this is a must have addition to whatever
IDE might come out of this survey.
On Jan 8, 2008 11:09 AM, Cutter (CFRelated)
<cold.fusion@cutterscrossing.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rich
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296128
<rant>
It seems that many people step up on their soapbox and proclaim that <insert
tool here> does not perform <insert personal requirement here>. The
problem
that Adobe is trying to solve is a rather large one. The CF community has a
very diverse user base, ranging from seasoned application developers
familiar with low level languages requesting tools available in those
languages to hobbyists who want a WYSIWYG environment. We are a large and
diverse group, both in terms of skills and requirements. I believe that
some people need to realize that their personal must have feature is not
necessarily even needed by other developers within this community. There is
no one "right" answer to this very challenging problem, but I am happy that
Adobe is attempting to craft an IDE that will address all of our needs.
</rant>
My personal hope is that Adobe will develop an Eclipse based solution so
that we as a community can leverage the existing tools that exist for the
platform and do not need to rely on Adobe to provide every tool that we can
dream up. Mark has done an amazing job with CFE, but at the end of the day,
he is still just one man. With the weight (and money) of Adobe behind an
Eclipse based tool, we would all be very much better off IMHO.
Rich Kroll
Author: Cutter (CFRelated)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296127
Intellisense for CFCs? We have that in CFEclipse, don't we?...;)
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
_____________________________
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Chad Gray wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Chad Gray
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296125
I love my Flex Builder 2.0. Intellesense rocks! We need that for CFCs in DW.
I use Dreamweaver and Flex Builder separately and I don't find that a bad thing.
I would rather have two programs running that do a superior job at each's task
then have one program that does a mediocre job.
Chad, You want a editor for HTML + CSS + CF and I want an editor for CF
+ Flex and believe me that if you find eclipse unstable, you should have
tried Flex Builder 1.5 that was build on top of DreamWeaver.
What I really like in Eclipse is that you don't need to wait for Adobe
to have functionality A,B or C, very often it's already available as a
third party plugin.
everyone has different needs, some need CSS+HTML support, some support
for Flex, some for other languages besides CF, some need support for
version control, etc and in my opinion Eclipse can solve most of them.
--
João Fernandes
http://www.onflexwithcf.org
http://www.riapt.org
Author: Chad Gray
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296124
But it does. :)
I appreciate separating code, but it just does not always work out that way for
me.
Once a spaghetti coder always a spaghetti coder. If my keyboard delivered a
shock when I start typing CSS in my HTML maybe I could break the habit.
> CF being tag based flows right in the HTML and CSS
It really shouldn't.
View (HTML) code should be separate to Control and Model code (CFML).
Author: João_Fernandes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296121
Chad, You want a editor for HTML + CSS + CF and I want an editor for CF
+ Flex and believe me that if you find eclipse unstable, you should have
tried Flex Builder 1.5 that was build on top of DreamWeaver.
What I really like in Eclipse is that you don't need to wait for Adobe
to have functionality A,B or C, very often it's already available as a
third party plugin.
everyone has different needs, some need CSS+HTML support, some support
for Flex, some for other languages besides CF, some need support for
version control, etc and in my opinion Eclipse can solve most of them.
--
João Fernandes
http://www.onflexwithcf.org
http://www.riapt.org
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296119
> CF being tag based flows right in the HTML and CSS
It really shouldn't.
View (HTML) code should be separate to Control and Model code (CFML).
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Cutter (CFRelated)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296118
I use Aptana Eclipse plugin for CSS work. If you are separating your
style declarations from your actual document (as you should) then the
Aptana editor is fantastic for this. Eclipse flips this automatically
for me, as I switch between a .cfm template (in CFEclipse perspective)
to a .css template.
But hey, to each his own....
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
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Chad Gray wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Chad Gray
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296110
Everyone keeps saying Dreamweaver is aimed for the graphic designer side of HTML
and that it is not for developers of CF.
CF being tag based flows right in the HTML and CSS so I want an editor that can
do CSS, HTML and CF because I use all three languages at the same time to make CF
pages.
I don't like Eclipse because I have to add so many plugins to get what I already
get in Dreamweaver. Then by the time I get all of the plugins the product tends
to be become un-stable and hard to keep up to date. I still have not found a
good plugin to code-hint/autocomplete CSS while im doing CF work.
Features to add on to Dreamweaver to make it the perfect product:
CFC introspection
Advanced search and replace like homesite (I love to search for tabs and CR to
re-arrange data)
Two file browsers
Author: massimo
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296104
>> This doesn't make it a state of the art CFML IDE, but it's
>> cross-platform
>
> 2 platforms isn't 'cross'.
Yep, you are right :-)
Massimo
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296103
> This doesn't make it a state of the art CFML IDE, but it's cross-platform
2 platforms isn't 'cross'.
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Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296102
> I think the direction is very clear, but it is something that has been
> debated internally at Adobe. But with the advent of platform support,
> DW and Homesite are windows only IDE's.
For what's worth, DW runs on Mac too, since version 1.0.
This doesn't make it a state of the art CFML IDE, but it's cross-platform
Massimo
Author: Will Tomlinson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296101
Let me fix your typo.
"No, sorry - I meant DW is usefulness as a CF IDE."
There, all fixed!
:)
Will
Author: Andy Allan
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296099
If you want to see the follow up to 2007's "fuzzy oranges", you will be there ;)
Andy
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296098
> what about us who want to switch to linux..... gosh, leave us hanging why
> don't ya.
If I'm at Scotch, I'll bring my Kubuntu laptop :-)
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296097
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform,
The smart choice would be 'do a Flex Builder' and build it on top of Eclipse,
rather than port it.
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296096
> Tom, I'm sorry, are you implying that CFStudio was more than HomeSite
> "dressed up"?
No, sorry - I meant DW is useless as a CF IDE.
> Don't get me wrong. I'm _GLAD_ Adobe is taking customer requests seriously
> (no, really!)... I guess I'm surprised that a IDE is at the top of the list
> of "serious issues."
Well, as there isn't an 'offical' IDE for CF (DW doesn't count for so many
reasons) and every other major server language has one, I can see why...
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296095
> I think having 2 file explorers IS a must have.
You mean a local file view, and a remote file view ?
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296094
> I think a more useful survey would have been? Have you used
> HomeSite+/CFStudio? Yes/no. Have you used DW? Yes/no If yes, what
"If yes, how long ago"
For me, we're talking 5 years or more.
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Author: Casey Dougall
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296093
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
what about us who want to switch to linux..... gosh, leave us hanging why
don't ya.
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296087
Larry,
Yep, there were lots of Macs. And in fact, the entire evangelism team use
Macs, with only two exceptions (one of whom is yours truly). But keep in
mind that CFUnited appeals to the high end ColdFusion developers, and the
demographic present at that event is absolutely not indicative of the
ColdFusion developer base in general. The very vocal high profile minority
present at events like CFUnited and cfObjective and Scotch and WebDU, and
subscribed to cf-talk and the like, are just that - very vocal, but
definitely a minority. For example, and I know many here won't believe this,
but among the greater CF community about half of developers use Dreamweaver
for their ColdFusion development, and they like it, too! Oh, and when I
visit customer sites I still find that most ColdFusion developers have yet
to ever use a CFC. Seriously. We'd never ignore the hardcore dedicated user
base that hangs around here, and the opinions shared here are taken very
seriously. But, just keep in mind that there is a much bigger CF world than
is present here. Which is why we need the bigger sampling in surveys.
--- Ben
While a majority of developers may be on a win'dohs box, if last year's
CFUnited is any indication there were quite a few Mac users in attendance,
judging from the number Mac laptops I saw in use.
regards,
larry
>Gotta love statistics. Where are you getting these numbers from again?
>
>I think it's in Adobe's best interest to make it cross-platform. Else the
>wrath of Ray / Sean / some others might be felt. :)
Author: Larry Lyons
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296086
While a majority of developers may be on a win'dohs box, if last year's CFUnited
is any indication there were quite a few Mac users in attendance, judging from
the number Mac laptops I saw in use.
regards,
larry
>Gotta love statistics. Where are you getting these numbers from again?
>
>I think it's in Adobe's best interest to make it cross-platform. Else the
>wrath of Ray / Sean / some others might be felt. :)
Author: Bobby Hartsfield
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296083
Haha!
.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296082
>>Obviously a job for CF_REextract!
Ha ha! Touché ;-)
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Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296080
On Jan 7, 2008 4:16 PM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
> >>Sorry... Can you post the link to the survey again...
>
> How about a survey about a good message reader that can save and
> retrieve previous messages? ;-)
Obviously a job for CF_REextract!
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed
of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a
helicopter." - Dave
Barry
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296079
>>Sorry... Can you post the link to the survey again...
How about a survey about a good message reader that can save and
retrieve previous messages? ;-)
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Author: Dave Long
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296076
Right, Claude! Where do I sign up?
>>Please,
please, please, Adobe, don't take away the best darned tool I've ever owned
for programming new CF apps!
How about starting a union? ;-)
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Author: Casey Dougall
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296069
> 2. Or build it in Flash. ;^)
You all should check out the Thermo Presentation. I beleive this would be a
solid indication as to how a CF IDE would be built. Long story short, They
are using Eclipse but they cut it up so much you wouldn't be able to use
third party tools in it... What Adobe was able to do with eclipse in the
development of Thermo is retarded though. Really great presentation to
checkout.
https://admin.adobe.acrobat.com/_a300965365/p12022133/
Casey
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296068
Thanks Charlie...
On Jan 7, 2008 1:36 PM, Mark Kruger <mkruger@cfwebtools.com> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> Sorry... Can you post the link to the survey again....I'll have my
> developers fill it out. Thanks.
Seriously? Dude. it's on every... single... blog. We're clogging up the
tubes today :)
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=321RrO9_2fWaP_2bdYMnmF9CuQ_3d_3d
--
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296067
On Jan 7, 2008 1:36 PM, Mark Kruger <mkruger@cfwebtools.com> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> Sorry... Can you post the link to the survey again....I'll have my
> developers fill it out. Thanks.
Seriously? Dude. it's on every... single... blog. We're clogging up
the tubes today :)
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=321RrO9_2fWaP_2bdYMnmF9CuQ_3d_3d
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed
of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a
helicopter." - Dave
Barry
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296066
Ben,
Sorry... Can you post the link to the survey again....I'll have my
developers fill it out. Thanks.
-Mark
I am not sure that we have really definitive numbers. But, the last time we
did some analysis, about 75% of CF servers were running on Windows, and the
number of ColdFusion developers who developed on Windows was even higher
than that, a lot higher. Having said that, multi-platform is indeed
important, which is why we ask about platform in the survey.
The best thing you guys can do to help us now is to get as many people as
possible to fill the survey in. Getting responses from the cf-talk readers
and frequent goog or MXNA readers is easy, but we also have a pretty good
idea what those responses will be. If you have co-workers or usergroup
members or others who can weigh in with their views, views we might not hear
as often, that would be invaluable.
--- Ben
I'm afraid I'd have to say that is not the case.... I would say that it is a
significant majority.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:42 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was
> Windows only.
I don't pretend to have any figured in front of me, but I'd speculate that
while I -think- a majority of CF folks are on Windows, I don't know that I'd
suggest it's a *significant* majority.
My guess is that the investment in building a cross-platform solution would
be a worthwhile investment. And yes, it's just a guess :)
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of
120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter." -
Dave Barry
Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296065
Not sure why you think it would be bad, since as Sean pointed out it would
be the only way to get true introspection and error flagging. An IDE could
parse text until the cows come home, but until the code is actually compiled
and executed there is no way to know what is actually happening.
On Jan 7, 2008 3:00 PM, Todd <webrat@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good grief. I'm getting (bad) flashbacks from late 90s/early 2000. I
> recall a certain java server that had the IDE built directly into it.
> Silverstream?
>
>
>
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296064
>>Please,
please, please, Adobe, don't take away the best darned tool I've ever owned
for programming new CF apps!
How about starting a union? ;-)
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Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296063
>>....and many people don't :)
Ok, some don't hate them, and even fewer love them ;-)
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Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296062
>>It would be smart for them to make it
cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was Windows
only.
Exact, there may be quite a few production servers under Unix, but their
developers are under Windows.
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Author: Mark Mandel
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296061
Sean,
If you ever decide to get into it, there is a Dynamic Language Toolkit
(DLTK) which I've been looking into for a while now for help in
building IDEs for dynamic languages on Eclipse.
http://www.eclipse.org/dltk/
The language is about as sparse as they come, but they are very
helpful on the mailing list.
Mark
On Jan 8, 2008 7:17 AM, Sean Corfield <seancorfield@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296059
I am not sure that we have really definitive numbers. But, the last time we
did some analysis, about 75% of CF servers were running on Windows, and the
number of ColdFusion developers who developed on Windows was even higher
than that, a lot higher. Having said that, multi-platform is indeed
important, which is why we ask about platform in the survey.
The best thing you guys can do to help us now is to get as many people as
possible to fill the survey in. Getting responses from the cf-talk readers
and frequent goog or MXNA readers is easy, but we also have a pretty good
idea what those responses will be. If you have co-workers or usergroup
members or others who can weigh in with their views, views we might not hear
as often, that would be invaluable.
--- Ben
I'm afraid I'd have to say that is not the case.... I would say that it is a
significant majority.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:42 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was
> Windows only.
I don't pretend to have any figured in front of me, but I'd speculate that
while I -think- a majority of CF folks are on Windows, I don't know that I'd
suggest it's a *significant* majority.
My guess is that the investment in building a cross-platform solution would
be a worthwhile investment. And yes, it's just a guess :)
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of
120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter." -
Dave Barry
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296057
I'm afraid I'd have to say that is not the case.... I would say that it is a
significant majority.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:42 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was
> Windows only.
I don't pretend to have any figured in front of me, but I'd speculate that
while I -think- a majority of CF folks are on Windows, I don't know that I'd
suggest it's a *significant* majority.
My guess is that the investment in building a cross-platform solution would
be a worthwhile investment. And yes, it's just a guess :)
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of
120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter." -
Dave Barry
Author: Sean Corfield
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296056
On Jan 7, 2008 11:56 AM, Jerry Guido <jguido@mgtamer.com> wrote:
> One of the features I absolutely love about Aptana and other Eclipse
> distros is having the methods and arguments of included libraries and
> classes available with Intellisense/code completion. If the methods and
> arguments of CFC's and objects were made available it would be a God
> send.
That would be impossible in general since CF is a dynamic language and
several important frameworks build objects on the fly. And then
there's duck typing and onMissingMethod() which both undermine the
ability to deduce available methods. That said, I agree that where it
is feasible to do so, it would be great if CFEclipse (or whatever)
could figure it out.
If I had bandwidth - or it was my full-time, well-paid job - I would
enjoy building that sort of semantic assistance into an Eclipse-based
editor for CF since I used to build compilers and interpreters for a
number of languages. It's a suitably hard problem to solve that it
would be a lot of fun :)
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296055
Now that is a useful list... Nice going jerry.
My wish list for a CF IDE.
Everything that CFEclipse and the Adobe's plug-ins has with support for:
Better short cut keys for code snippets. Not "Ctrl J" but the way the HS/CFS
did it. I stuck with CFS for a long time because of DW not supporting short
cut keys.
Right click >> edit tag - I stuck with CFS for a long time for this as
well.
Intellisense on CFCs with help (like what Aptana did with the JS
libraries) - especially the Admin API, and to a lesser degree the popular
frameworks - ColdSpring, MG, M2 etc. What Aptana did with the JS/AJAX
libraries is nothing short of amazing.
Better Intellisense for html and CSS.
Intellisense/ Auto-complete for CFfunctions and CFscript. That is a Biggie.
Database Manager. Like the one in MS Visual studio where you can edit the
database and data
A better query builder with JOIN support and code coloring.
Better and faster integrated *Local* help for CF tags/functions.
Built in access to basic CF Administrator functions.
I would like to see a leaner version of Eclipse (my version eats up way too
much RAM).
Creating a new IDE or reviving CF Studio would be a waste of resources IMHO.
CF Studio *was* great but it took too much hacking to get it to work with
other languages (Java, PHP, ASP, C#, JS, SQL etc).
Eclipse has spoilt me. I can jump between the above languages in a single
IDE and have Intellisense and pop up help/hints for all of them.
Thanx,
Jerry Guido
Programmer
MGT of America, Inc.
jguido@mgtamer.com
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you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have
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or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited.
Author: Matt Williams
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296054
On Jan 7, 2008 1:56 PM, Jerry Guido <jguido@mgtamer.com> wrote:
> I am a huge fan of Aptana for working with CSS and JS. Take a look at
> what they are doing with third party JavaScript libraries.
>
Aptana love seems to be a theme in this thread. Maybe we should all
hope for this headline ...
Adobe buys Aptana, plans killer CF IDE
--
Matt Williams
"It's the question that drives us."
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296053
Oh I agree Sean...it would be foolish to produce a Windows only app.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:42 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was
> Windows only.
More and more CFers are switching to Macs. Have you been to a CF conference
lately and seen all the PowerBooks and MacBook Pros in the audience?
Now, I accept that the "few hundred" CFers who go to conferences are not
representative of the CF community at large but I can't imagine Adobe
producing a Windows-only IDE. They got enough grief about the code gen
wizards for Eclipse being Windows only (because they were based on the
Delphi code in HS!).
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296052
On Jan 7, 2008 1:53 PM, Brian Kotek <brian428@gmail.com> wrote:
> A moot point if the platform is Eclipse-based. What I think would really
> kick ass is if Adobe would embed a bare-bones version of the ColdFusion
> server itself directly into Eclipse (since it is also Java-based), or hook
Not technically. Some of the CF Extensions feature set is Windows
only, even though it runs in Eclipse.
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, Camden Media
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: João_Fernandes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296051
I would say it "Build it in AIR" ;)
I would be cross platform once we get a linux version of AIR runtime.
In my humble opinion I would go for CFEclipse, a lot of functionality is
already there with the CFExtensions adding support for RDS and
debugging. I don't know how much work would be to recreate the debugger
in another proposed solution.
--
João Fernandes
http://www.onflexwithcf.org
http://www.riapt.org
Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296050
Good grief. I'm getting (bad) flashbacks from late 90s/early 2000. I
recall a certain java server that had the IDE built directly into it.
Silverstream?
On Jan 7, 2008 2:53 PM, Brian Kotek <brian428@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jerry Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296049
One of the features I absolutely love about Aptana and other Eclipse
distros is having the methods and arguments of included libraries and
classes available with Intellisense/code completion. If the methods and
arguments of CFC's and objects were made available it would be a God
send. If the classes of included CSS files were available as well that
would be great as well.
I am a huge fan of Aptana for working with CSS and JS. Take a look at
what they are doing with third party JavaScript libraries.
http://www.aptana.tv/movies/aptana_yui_demo/YUIDemo.html
If this sort of functionality became available with CF script and CFML I
would fall all over myself to get a copy. I would gladly pay for an IDE
like that (as long as you kept it in the $100 range ;)).
Actually if you married CFEclipse with Aptana it would be the CF IDE of
my dreams.
Thanx,
Jerry Guido
Programmer
MGT of America, Inc.
jguido@mgtamer.com
The information contained in this electronic communication is intended
only for the use of the addressee, and may be a confidential
communication. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly
prohibited.
Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296048
A moot point if the platform is Eclipse-based. What I think would really
kick ass is if Adobe would embed a bare-bones version of the ColdFusion
server itself directly into Eclipse (since it is also Java-based), or hook
directly into a local install of CF. Because at that point the parsing
challenges go away: the IDE would know exactly what paths/mappings to use
and where everything is, as well as being able to compile the code behind
the scenes and provide true error flagging, code insight, etc. These are all
guesses, but the point is I'm pretty sure that having a real instance of CF
intimately connected to the IDE would open up a huge number of
possibilities.
On Jan 7, 2008 2:42 PM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was Windows
> only.
>
>
>
Author: Sean Corfield
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296047
On Jan 7, 2008 11:42 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was Windows
> only.
More and more CFers are switching to Macs. Have you been to a CF
conference lately and seen all the PowerBooks and MacBook Pros in the
audience?
Now, I accept that the "few hundred" CFers who go to conferences are
not representative of the CF community at large but I can't imagine
Adobe producing a Windows-only IDE. They got enough grief about the
code gen wizards for Eclipse being Windows only (because they were
based on the Delphi code in HS!).
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood
Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296046
Gotta love statistics. Where are you getting these numbers from again?
I think it's in Adobe's best interest to make it cross-platform. Else the
wrath of Ray / Sean / some others might be felt. :)
On Jan 7, 2008 2:42 PM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was Windows
> only.
>
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296045
On Jan 7, 2008 11:42 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
> developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
> cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was Windows
> only.
I don't pretend to have any figured in front of me, but I'd speculate
that while I -think- a majority of CF folks are on Windows, I don't
know that I'd suggest it's a *significant* majority.
My guess is that the investment in building a cross-platform solution
would be a worthwhile investment. And yes, it's just a guess :)
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed
of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a
helicopter." - Dave Barry
Author: Dave Long
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296044
Well, I've lurked around here for several of months now and you're finally
discussing a subject about which I have strong feelings.
Homesite and CF Studio are the only tools I've ever used to develop Web
apps. The Studio 5 CFML Wizards are great but should be easier to customize.
The custom buttons for the tool bars are too restrictive (two characters?
Come on!) but otherwise, I love it. It's particularly helpful when trying to
make sense of a JavaScript with the code jammed together in a single line.
(I use "Extended replace" to add a carriage return after the semicolon. It
also works great for changing .css file and datasource names when re-using
templates from other sites.)
I plan to continue using Studio 5 as long as it works on my operating system
even though I have Macromedia Studio MX. DreamWeaver MX came with a tutorial
but what I needed was a cookbook, "There's no time to drain the swamp when
you're up to your sphincter in alligators!", so I never took the two or
three weeks off required to learn it. Maybe someday, if I retire or go out
of business.
BTW, Ben, your "ColdFusion MX - WACK" is never more than a forearm's length
away from me, and bless you for writing it, but it is also in the form of a
tutorial, which makes digging out the moment's essential code a more time
consuming effort than it could be. (See "HTML, XHTML, & CSS, Sixth Edition"
by Elizabeth Castro for a sample of the "cookbook" format to which I refer.)
Sorry to be so wordy but my purpose in posting is pretty simple: Please,
please, please, Adobe, don't take away the best darned tool I've ever owned
for programming new CF apps!
Dave Long,
Owner, Janitor, & Snake Oil Technician
NorthGoods Merchant Services
http://www.northgoods.com
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296043
Again...I would argue that the overwhelming majority of ColdFusion
developers are Windows based. It would be smart for them to make it
cross-platform, but it wouldn't affect that many people if it was Windows
only.
I didn't word that very well...
Put it this way, if Adobe created a new IDE that was only Windows-based,
they would really be shooting themselves in the foot.
Maybe I should have said they need to port it to non-Windows systems to
appease enough developers to justify the entire project.
M!ke
The "majority" of developers are non-windows? In the corporate CF world my
guess would be 95% windows. That's just been my experience.
Greg
On Jan 7, 2008 12:39 PM, Dawson, Michael <md40@evansville.edu> wrote:
> They would need to port it to non-Windows systems to appease the
> majority of the developers.
>
> But, I would be all for it. :D
>
> M!ke
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296042
I didn't word that very well...
Put it this way, if Adobe created a new IDE that was only Windows-based,
they would really be shooting themselves in the foot.
Maybe I should have said they need to port it to non-Windows systems to
appease enough developers to justify the entire project.
M!ke
The "majority" of developers are non-windows? In the corporate CF world
my guess would be 95% windows. That's just been my experience.
Greg
On Jan 7, 2008 12:39 PM, Dawson, Michael <md40@evansville.edu> wrote:
> They would need to port it to non-Windows systems to appease the
> majority of the developers.
>
> But, I would be all for it. :D
>
> M!ke
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296041
Two suggestions:
1. Hire Nick Bradbury to build the new IDE.
2. Or build it in Flash. ;^)
M!ke
Claude,
To be brutally blunt, that's far too expensive an option. CF Studio (and
HomeSite) are built in a language that is used for almost nothing else
in the company, and keeping a team of Delphi developers on just for that
product is hard to justify. Plus, the reality is that we've done nothing
with that product in about 8 years, so the catch-up work that would be
required would be immense. We discussed this at MAX in Chicago
extensively, and the consensus seemed to be that a CF IDE needs to
either be Eclipse based (aligned well with Flex Builder and more) or
Dreamweaver based (or possibly both). There are actually quite a few
options available to us, and many have been enumerated already here. The
next step is to gather input and feedback to help determine which option
to pursue.
Author: Sean Corfield
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296040
On Jan 7, 2008 10:09 AM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
> It was developped in Delphi? .... Yurk! Now I understand.
> But still, its conversion to C, or even Java, would be worth
I looked into that - there's an open source Delphi "compatible" system
that runs on non-Windows systems - but it really doesn't work well and
would still be an enormous amount of work to do the conversion, even
with that system.
As for converting HS to Java, it would be much less work to start with
Eclipse and build the HS features on top of that. Which is essentially
what the CFEclipse project has done - and that's already open source
so anyone can contribute (of course not many CFers actually do
contribute so we all owe Mark Drew a huge debt of gratitude for his
hard work on the project).
FWIW, I hated HomeSite and ColdFusion Studio. I tried them repeatedly
and just couldn't work with them at all.
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret
Atwood
Author: Greg Luce
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296039
My Homesite + still is a great asset. I'm on CFE now more than 95% of the
time. But what exactly is wrong with Homesite+ other than they don't support
it anymore? Someone always rolls out the vtms for new versions of CF. That's
the only thing I need.
Greg
On Jan 7, 2008 1:09 PM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Greg Luce
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296037
The "majority" of developers are non-windows? In the corporate CF world my
guess would be 95% windows. That's just been my experience.
Greg
On Jan 7, 2008 12:39 PM, Dawson, Michael <md40@evansville.edu> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jerry Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296036
My wish list for a CF IDE.
Everything that CFEclipse and the Adobe's plug-ins has with support for:
Better short cut keys for code snippets. Not "Ctrl J" but the way the
HS/CFS did it. I stuck with CFS for a long time because of DW not
supporting short cut keys.
Right click >> edit tag - I stuck with CFS for a long time for this as
well.
Intellisense on CFCs with help (like what Aptana did with the JS
libraries) - especially the Admin API, and to a lesser degree the
popular frameworks - ColdSpring, MG, M2 etc. What Aptana did with the
JS/AJAX libraries is nothing short of amazing.
Better Intellisense for html and CSS.
Intellisense/ Auto-complete for CFfunctions and CFscript. That is a
Biggie.
Database Manager. Like the one in MS Visual studio where you can edit
the database and data
A better query builder with JOIN support and code coloring.
Better and faster integrated *Local* help for CF tags/functions.
Built in access to basic CF Administrator functions.
I would like to see a leaner version of Eclipse (my version eats up way
too much RAM).
Creating a new IDE or reviving CF Studio would be a waste of resources
IMHO. CF Studio *was* great but it took too much hacking to get it to
work with other languages (Java, PHP, ASP, C#, JS, SQL etc).
Eclipse has spoilt me. I can jump between the above languages in a
single IDE and have Intellisense and pop up help/hints for all of them.
Thanx,
Jerry Guido
Programmer
MGT of America, Inc.
jguido@mgtamer.com
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Author: Andrew Scott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296035
Yeah, well like I said I know I can dream...
> Ah, ok. Well, that is actually a frequently discussed option too! :-)
>
> --- Ben
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296034
Ah, ok. Well, that is actually a frequently discussed option too! :-)
--- Ben
lol,
Ben I think you should read that better, I was asking for Coldfusion
itself to be free. And I would pay for the IDE :-)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
you
> > are suggestions. Actually, at this point no one has said anything at
all,
> > other than A) a CF IDE ranks as one of the top feature requests, B)
we'd
> > like more input from the community to help drove decision making.
That's
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
now
> > you don't." I don't understand why they don't just throw some money at
> > CFEclipse or fix issues inside of DW. All I see this doing is messing
up
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna/controller.cfm?handler=PostHandler&action
> >
>
=click&postId=239231&nextPage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edcooper%2Eorg%2Fblog%2Fclie
> >
>
nt%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Fmode%3Dentry%26entry%3D54F8B07D%2D4E22%2D1671%2D5D4901CA2
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296032
On Jan 7, 2008 10:09 AM, Claude Schneegans <schneegans@internetique.com>
wrote:
> If you have already decided to start from this basis, the problem is
> that many people hate those products
...and many people don't :)
maybe that's why they're doing the survey? because a couple of guys
on a mailing list saying "there's a lot of people that hate (name of
product here)" or "there's a lot of people that love (name of product
here)" just isn't quite scientific enough :)
--
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed
of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a
helicopter." - Dave
Barry
Author: Andrew Scott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296033
Claude,
I think you will find more people using CFEclipse these days than CF
Studio/Homesite+
When CF Studio was stopped in favour of HomeSite+, a lot of good
features walked out the door at that point. But as Homesite can't do
what I need it to do, why would I go back to it?
I think the direction is very clear, but it is something that has been
debated internally at Adobe. But with the advent of platform support,
DW and Homesite are windows only IDE's.
And there are more people using Mac's and Linux these days than
everbefore, and as Ben has indicated it needs to be cost effective for
Adobe as well, and to port both DW and Homesite to the other platforms
would be an expensive exercise.
Eclipse as an IDE was the best choice for Flex, for that exact reason.
Not Homesite or DW....
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Andrew Scott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296031
lol,
Ben I think you should read that better, I was asking for Coldfusion
itself to be free. And I would pay for the IDE :-)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296030
>>and keeping a team of Delphi
It was developped in Delphi? .... Yurk! Now I understand.
But still, its conversion to C, or even Java, would be worth
>>Plus, the reality is that we've done nothing
with that product in about 8 years
.. and stil many people use it and prefer it.
>>that a CF IDE needs to either be Eclipse
based (aligned well with Flex Builder and more) or Dreamweaver based
Eclipse is too general, too cumbersome,
Dreamweaver is more like a WYSIWYG HTML writer, not what developers need.
If you have already decided to start from this basis, the problem is
that many people
hate those products not because they are missing something, but because
of what they already have.
Adding new options will not help.
The advantage of CF Studio is that everybody already love it. Its only
problem, and the only reason people
are asking for a new product, is with a couple of tools and details that
are needed.
--
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REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
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Thanks.
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296029
Hey, free is a valid option, which is why it is listed there! :-)
--- Ben
Ben,
When looking at the survey, one of the important things was how much
would you pay.
The one thing that I would like to add to that is I selected free,
only because I couldn't add any reason behind that. My reasoning is
this, Coldfusion is loosing ground in areas that I will not debate
here. However my logic is this, I would love to see Coldfusion itself
100% free and the IDE I would pay for as long as it supported what I
needed to do my job.
So if Adobe was to take on CFEclipse, and throw support at it, I am
prepared to pay for that. I guess to take on .Net and others I would
like to see something that is as comparable to those models.
Anyway I know I can dream :-)
> Todd,
>
> You are jumping to conclusions. No one has said that we'll not do what you
> are suggestions. Actually, at this point no one has said anything at all,
> other than A) a CF IDE ranks as one of the top feature requests, B) we'd
> like more input from the community to help drove decision making. That's
it
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna/controller.cfm?handler=PostHandler&action
>
=click&postId=239231&nextPage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edcooper%2Eorg%2Fblog%2Fclie
>
nt%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Fmode%3Dentry%26entry%3D54F8B07D%2D4E22%2D1671%2D5D4901CA2
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296028
Claude,
To be brutally blunt, that's far too expensive an option. CF Studio (and
HomeSite) are built in a language that is used for almost nothing else in
the company, and keeping a team of Delphi developers on just for that
product is hard to justify. Plus, the reality is that we've done nothing
with that product in about 8 years, so the catch-up work that would be
required would be immense. We discussed this at MAX in Chicago extensively,
and the consensus seemed to be that a CF IDE needs to either be Eclipse
based (aligned well with Flex Builder and more) or Dreamweaver based (or
possibly both). There are actually quite a few options available to us, and
many have been enumerated already here. The next step is to gather input and
feedback to help determine which option to pursue.
--- Ben
Why don't they simply continue to support and develop CF Studio ?
--
_______________________________________
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See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm
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Thanks.
Author: Andrew Scott
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296027
Ben,
When looking at the survey, one of the important things was how much
would you pay.
The one thing that I would like to add to that is I selected free,
only because I couldn't add any reason behind that. My reasoning is
this, Coldfusion is loosing ground in areas that I will not debate
here. However my logic is this, I would love to see Coldfusion itself
100% free and the IDE I would pay for as long as it supported what I
needed to do my job.
So if Adobe was to take on CFEclipse, and throw support at it, I am
prepared to pay for that. I guess to take on .Net and others I would
like to see something that is as comparable to those models.
Anyway I know I can dream :-)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296026
>>They would need to port it to non-Windows systems to appease the
majority of the developers.
Then let'm do it!
--
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Thanks.
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296025
They would need to port it to non-Windows systems to appease the
majority of the developers.
But, I would be all for it. :D
M!ke
Claude,
I'm with you there.... I use homesite about 50% of the time... Can't
seem to get away from it. Especially since I have all my custom help
files and edits and vtms brought forward for the last 7 or 8 years :)
-mark
Why don't they simply continue to support and develop CF Studio ?
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296024
Claude,
I'm with you there.... I use homesite about 50% of the time... Can't seem to
get away from it. Especially since I have all my custom help files and edits
and vtms brought forward for the last 7 or 8 years :)
-mark
Why don't they simply continue to support and develop CF Studio ?
--
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Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296022
Why don't they simply continue to support and develop CF Studio ?
--
_______________________________________
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Thanks.
Author: Ryan, Terrence
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296020
I got the sense talking to some Adobe people at Max that a large chuck of
customers were clamoring for an IDE. I would seem that the group of customers
that don't participate in the community, (that vast majority) but that Adobe
reaches out to through sales and support, want this.
I was originally very opposed to the idea, mostly because I felt it was a waste
of resources that they could be putting to CFVideo, or CFAir. But since part of
ColdFusion continued health depends on keeping large numbers of paying customers
happy, the IDE does sound like a smart move for them.
Terrence Ryan
I.T. Director
Wharton Computing and Information Technology
E-mail: tpryan@wharton.upenn.edu
Tom, I'm sorry, are you implying that CFStudio was more than HomeSite
"dressed up"?
CFS wasn't an IDE either, it was an HTML Editor (called HomeSite) with some
CFML widgits tacked on.
Don't get me wrong. I'm _GLAD_ Adobe is taking customer requests seriously
(no, really!)... I guess I'm surprised that a IDE is at the top of the list
of "serious issues." That being said, maybe clarification should have been
"IDE for *nix" or something. Just seems weird that anyone would think about
reinventing the wheel when the wheel has already been made and rolling for
some time with and without Adobe official stamp on it (I'm speaking of
DW/CFEclipse).
On Jan 7, 2008 11:52 AM, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296018
Cool, I'm glad I brought it up to remind folks then. Be sure to note that
in the survey if it's that important to you.
~Todd
On Jan 7, 2008 12:06 PM, Ben Nadel <Ben@nylontechnology.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296014
Tom, I'm sorry, are you implying that CFStudio was more than HomeSite
"dressed up"?
CFS wasn't an IDE either, it was an HTML Editor (called HomeSite) with some
CFML widgits tacked on.
Don't get me wrong. I'm _GLAD_ Adobe is taking customer requests seriously
(no, really!)... I guess I'm surprised that a IDE is at the top of the list
of "serious issues." That being said, maybe clarification should have been
"IDE for *nix" or something. Just seems weird that anyone would think about
reinventing the wheel when the wheel has already been made and rolling for
some time with and without Adobe official stamp on it (I'm speaking of
DW/CFEclipse).
On Jan 7, 2008 11:52 AM, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Ben Nadel
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296013
@Todd,
I think having 2 file explorers IS a must have. Once you have been doing
that for years, you immediately feel the negative impact that a single
file tree has on the development process. Its like walking on one of
those flat conveyer belt at the airport and then you step onto the
regular floor and everything feels like it slows down.
-Ben
.....................
Ben Nadel
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX7 Developer
www.bennadel.com
Need ColdFusion Help?
www.bennadel.com/ask-ben/
I am jumping to conclusions because it's part of feedback, even if it is
negative. Customer Perception, isn't it? I doubt I'm going to be the
only one to jump to the conclusions today or take a look at that survey
and say, "Duh, we asked for all this years ago."
I think a more useful survey would have been? Have you used
HomeSite+/CFStudio? Yes/no. Have you used DW? Yes/no If yes, what
HomeSite+features
did you like from it? etc. For example, I miss having 2 file explorers
like I did in HS+/CF Studio, but it's not a "Must have." I'll be sure
to note that in my survey when I think it through a little more.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:50 AM, Ben Forta <ben@forta.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296011
I am jumping to conclusions because it's part of feedback, even if it is
negative. Customer Perception, isn't it? I doubt I'm going to be the only
one to jump to the conclusions today or take a look at that survey and say,
"Duh, we asked for all this years ago."
I think a more useful survey would have been? Have you used
HomeSite+/CFStudio? Yes/no. Have you used DW? Yes/no If yes, what features
did you like from it? etc. For example, I miss having 2 file explorers like
I did in HS+/CF Studio, but it's not a "Must have." I'll be sure to note
that in my survey when I think it through a little more.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:50 AM, Ben Forta <ben@forta.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296008
> fix issues inside of DW.
Like you, I'd rather they had offical support (like, payed developers) for
CFE.
DW isn't a ColdFusion IDE, it's an HTML editor with some CFML widgits tacked
on. When there was Studio, this was fine, because 'serious' CFML coders could
just use that. Now though, it's CFE or a generic code editor with a community
syntax template.
It also doesn't run (natively) on Linux - this is a show stopper for us, as
our desktops are 'nix.
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to advantageously transform dynamic ROI
on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com
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Author: Ben Forta
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296007
Todd,
You are jumping to conclusions. No one has said that we'll not do what you
are suggestions. Actually, at this point no one has said anything at all,
other than A) a CF IDE ranks as one of the top feature requests, B) we'd
like more input from the community to help drove decision making. That's it
- for now.
--- Ben
Hopefully this won't be yet another ColdFusion Studio "now you see it, now
you don't." I don't understand why they don't just throw some money at
CFEclipse or fix issues inside of DW. All I see this doing is messing up
the Adobe Future-CS3 bundles they have.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:36 AM, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com>
wrote:
> In case no one is reading RSS these days,
>
>
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna/controller.cfm?handler=PostHandler&action
=click&postId=239231&nextPage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edcooper%2Eorg%2Fblog%2Fclie
nt%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Fmode%3Dentry%26entry%3D54F8B07D%2D4E22%2D1671%2D5D4901CA2
8DF6919
> --
> Tom Chiverton
> Helping to vitalistically leverage sexy products
> on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com
>
Author: Todd
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296005
Hopefully this won't be yet another ColdFusion Studio "now you see it, now
you don't." I don't understand why they don't just throw some money at
CFEclipse or fix issues inside of DW. All I see this doing is messing up
the Adobe Future-CS3 bundles they have.
On Jan 7, 2008 11:36 AM, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:54739#296003
In case no one is reading RSS these days,
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=321RrO9_2fWaP_2bdYMnmF9CuQ_3d_3d
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to vitalistically leverage sexy products
on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com
****************************************************
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales
under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells
LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in
relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The
Solicitors Regulation Authority.
CONFIDENTIALITY
This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be
confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not
read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any
person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.
If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells
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For more information about Halliwells LLP visit
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