Best ColdFusion editor?

Hey guys We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for Coldfusion. A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse. What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.

Eclipse w/ CFEclipse & Subclipse: CFEclipse is excellent plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in one IDE is just fabn-bloody-tastic. Oh, and its FREE! Dominic ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Flex Builder with CFEclipse installed. Regards Dale Fraser Eclipse w/ CFEclipse & Subclipse: CFEclipse is excellent plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in one IDE is just fabn-bloody-tastic. Oh, and its FREE! Dominic ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

TextMate? MD On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Dale Fraser <dale@fraser.id.au> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

there is no right answer to this question obviously, except this: The best cf editor is the one that you are most comfortable with and allows you to work at peak productivity. For me - even having been using Flex Builder for 2 years now, that editor is still Homesite+ Rick

I just want to +1 this. You want to use the editor that is best for you and your team. I will add though that Eclipse takes a bit of getting used to. It will NOT be as friendly as HomeSite+, but if you give yourself a week on it, I think you will appreciate it. I'll also ditto TextMate. I use it for editing files I don't have Eclipse projects set up for. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Rick Root <rick.root@webworksllc.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

I rub two sticks together. I do adore Eclipse though. Aptana absolutely ROCKS for JS, Ajax and CSS and AIR development. I do dust off CF studio for some stuff. But Rick is right, what ever gets you most productive. G -- "One man with courage makes a majority." -Andrew Jackson

You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you? Eclipse w/ CFEclipse & Subclipse: CFEclipse is excellent plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in one IDE is just fabn-bloody-tastic. Oh, and its FREE! Dominic

It was for me =)  Adobe offers Flex Builder 3 FREE to educational faculty and staff. Rick On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Billy Cox <billy@oldworldspices.com> wrote: > You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you? > >

I guess the school of hard knocks doesn't count as an educational institution.  :( It was for me =)  Adobe offers Flex Builder 3 FREE to educational faculty and staff. Rick On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Billy Cox <billy@oldworldspices.com> wrote: > You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you? > >

>You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you? lol no: "plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in one IDE is just fan-bloody-tastic" ;) Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk

I only use Eclipse because it has SVN built into it, but I personally don't like it. It's slow, takes up LOADS of memory on a system that's already taxed because of multiple instances of ColdFusion, etc. I do like the fact that it's open source and that it has lots of add-ons, but being "free" shouldn't mean that it sucks. As for basic code-writing, I prefer EditPlus. It's highly configurable, lightweight, fast, and offers everything that I could want in an editor except for SVN. andy Hey guys We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for Coldfusion. A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse. What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.

Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage people to use it for cf development I wonder? I use Eclipse and Dreamweaver - DW for layout and CSS stuff, Eclipse for CF and Javascript stuff. Eclipse is very slow to start up for me now. I only use Eclipse because it has SVN built into it, but I personally don't like it. It's slow, takes up LOADS of memory on a system that's already taxed because of multiple instances of ColdFusion, etc. I do like the fact that it's open source and that it has lots of add-ons, but being "free" shouldn't mean that it sucks. As for basic code-writing, I prefer EditPlus. It's highly configurable, lightweight, fast, and offers everything that I could want in an editor except for SVN. andy Hey guys We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for Coldfusion. A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse. What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.

I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now. I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- being "free" ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

You to download and install the CF 8 extension. It will not be integrated out of the box... No comments. Massimo > Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now. > > I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a > fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help > though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet.

Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image functions anyway. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html I was just able to download and install the extensions.  It appears the new tags and functions are now supported with DW CS3. Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image functions anyway. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote: > Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now. > > I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- ======================================================================== === Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history, etc. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Jas ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work > for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to > play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports > file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history, > etc. The CF 8 extension works on both DW CS 3 and CS 4. I think the extension is quite buggy (filed plenty of reports on it), but it behaves the same on both versions. Massimo

I can confirm this, having just launced extension manager cs4 and imported the extensions. Certainly works, and better than Cfeclipse. > Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work > for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to > play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports > file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history, > etc. The CF 8 extension works on both DW CS 3 and CS 4. I think the extension is quite buggy (filed plenty of reports on it), but it behaves the same on both versions. Massimo

Ah... shows how much I know.  I didn't know there was a CS4 yet. :) Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history, etc. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Jas > http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html > > I was just able to download and install the extensions.  It appears the ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- wrote: >>> Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage people >>> to use it for cf development I wonder? >>>-- > ======================================================================== ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I didn't like the fact that it wasn't integrated, though there was a plugin you could buy that did it.  I can't vouch for how well it worked (or not) as I never used it.  I just bit the bullet and used tortoise in Windows Explorer...a bit of a pain in the butt, but more of an inconvenience than anything else. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:34 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work /*for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to /*play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports /*file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history, /*etc. /* /*On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Jas /*> http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html /*> /*> I was just able to download and install the extensions.  It appears the /*> new tags and functions are now supported with DW CS3. /*> /*> -----Original Message----- /* /*> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:28 AM /*> To: CF-Talk /*> Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /*> /*> Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a /*> beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image /*> functions anyway. /*> /*> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews /*> <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote: /*>> Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now. /*>> /*>> -----Original Message----- /* /*>> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:11 AM /*>> To: CF-Talk /*>> Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /*>> /*>> I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave /*> it a /*>> fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help /*>> though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet. /*>> /*>> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote: /*>>> Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage people /*>>> to use it for cf development I wonder? /*>>>-- /*> ======================================================================== /*> === /*> Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice /*> /*> Email : ray@camdenfamily.com /*> Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com /*> AOL IM : cfjedimaster /*> /*> Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org /*> /*> /*> /*> /* /*

Sorry, wans't clear. I'm talking about (and I assume Ray is too) the new public beta for dw cs4 - available from Labs. Will http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html I was just able to download and install the extensions.  It appears the new tags and functions are now supported with DW CS3. Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image functions anyway. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote: > Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now. > > I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- ======================================================================== === Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

That would make me look into it and possibly give it a try. That was one of my main reasons for going to CFeclipse. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I was a longtime Homesite+ fan until the office was forced to move over to eclipse.  It took me a little to get used to it and to also go through all the different settings and setting it up how I wanted it, but once it was all set up i started to really like it. But in all honesty, will they ever create an editor that can compete with notepad?  It's a classic! :-) -Si On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:06 AM, J.J. Merrick <jj@themerrickhouse.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage people to > use it for cf development I wonder? Nope. It's not code-oriented. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

Can you explain this a bit more? How can you do SVN support that isn't code oriented? Or do you mean DW in general? On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Tom Chiverton <tom.chiverton@halliwells.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Or do you mean DW in general? Yeah, wasn't clear, sorry :-) I've not played with the beta (doesn't run on Linux) but SVN is 'just another' RCS system, it's not 'code oriented' as such - it's 'file oriented' as much as anything. As Flex Builder / CFEclipse has SVN support too, and much better 'coders IDE' features (even though it's missing big hit things like full re-factoring support/insight) I can't see much that would make me switch, even if I could. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

I am one of those ones using Eclipse and I must say that I am not all convinced yet... I love many of the features, which makes many things much easier - but at the same time I also fully acknowledge that the speed (or lack thereof) is a big problem. I sometimes need to go into CF files og 4000+ lines and when I do, Eclipse becomes sluggy to an extend that makes working almost impossible. My reason for starting this thread is, that I would prefer for all developers in our team to use the same editor - hopefully with synergistic results. But please keep the comments coming, I also welcome the opportunity to aquaint myself with new development tools.

Eclipse is indeed a resource pig. Between CF server, MSSQL, MySQL, Eclipse, FF etc. my workstation hovers around .1.5 gigs of ram. I had a problem with it being slow and I up-ed the ram to 512 using the following: "C:\Program Files\eclipse\eclipse.exe"  -vmargs -Xmx512M It is quite speedy now. G On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Michael Christensen <michael@strib.dk> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Eclipse is indeed a resource pig. Do you have the latest Java, and is Eclipse using it ? Also, you can turn down (or up !) it's RAM usage using it's eclipse.ini or command line too - big topic though :-) > Between CF server, MSSQL, MySQL, Eclipse, > FF etc. my workstation hovers around .1.5 gigs of ram. I wouldn't use a developer workstation that was expected to run what looks like a full copy of the staging system in under 2G RAM. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

>>I wouldn't use a developer workstation that was expected to run what looks like a full copy of the staging system in under 2G RAM. Which is why I need a new laptop. And why I don't want one w/vista. ;) >> Do you have the latest Java I am one behind: 1.6.0_05. You think it would make a diff? G -- "One man with courage makes a majority." -Andrew Jackson

> I am one behind: 1.6.0_05. You think it would make a diff? I'm actually using the beta (1.6.0_10-beta) day to day, and found it faster than 0_06 was. They've put effort into improving startup performance, for instance. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

This is an eclipse problem (not cfeclipse problem). I found that the incredibly ridiculous, unworkable slowness on files approaching 1000 lines (or more) happens when your cursor is next to an open or closed angle bracket <>. Simply typing a space after the < will suddenly get the keypress response back up to a workable speed. Unfortunately, that hoses-up any tag insight you were hoping for. > I sometimes need to go into CF files og 4000+ lines and when I do, Eclipse becomes sluggy to an extend that makes working almost impossible.

CFEclipse with XMLBuddy and Subclipse. I also have Dreamweaver 8 but only use that for the WYSIWYG in design phase. After that I use CFEclipse. I guess my main reason is that I really liked CFStudio and Homesite and so it felt like a natural progression. Also the internal subversion plugin makes developing in my workflow nice. I also like the fact that it is free which is always a plus. I just switched to the mac and the ability to have the same exact IDE as I did on windows allowed for a very smooth transition. J.J. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 3:51 AM, Michael Christensen <michael@strib.dk> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I'm one of these (apparently) rare Dreamweaver CF coders. We get code onto our test server with FTP and DW just makes this too easy. The new version (in beta, as mentioned before) not only has SVN integration (yay!) but it has code hinting for JQuery, Prototype and Spry, AIR authoring and the related files/code navigator tools. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Michael Christensen <michael@strib.dk> wrote: > Hey guys > > We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for Coldfusion. > A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse. > > What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed. -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

Dreamweaver is nice... But I think allot of people (myself included) got scared away from it awhile back when the WYSIWYG editor made code that was... just unreadable.. Kind of like Front Page *shutter* Has Dreamweaver improved enough to give another look at? On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:42 AM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I use it all the time, CS3 here and 8 on my other setup.  I have only run into one code rewrite problem and it is a certain XML element name that is used in just 2-3 of our files.  What happens is it is something like <Blah>""</Blah> and when I open that XML file up it changes to <Blah></Blah> but never tells me it is changing it or even shows that the file needs to be saved.  I never use the design mode though, just never had a need for a feature like that in any IDE so I never use them. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Phillip Vector <vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Phillip Vector <vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote: > Dreamweaver is nice... But I think allot of people (myself included) > got scared away from it awhile back when the WYSIWYG editor made code > that was... just unreadable.. Kind of like Front Page *shutter* > > Has Dreamweaver improved enough to give another look at? I've been using DW since the first MX release as a code editor. I don't go into design view (I never went into it in CFStudio either). I turn off most panels and toolbars and work with just the files panel and code window (I'm a keyboard shortcut junkie). It's brilliant - extensible, customisable, powerful. Code hinting for CF, HTML, CSS and JavaScript. SVN in the new version although I used an extension for SVN support in CS3. FTP and SFTP out of the box. People used to say "it's too slow compared to HomeSite/CFStudio" but these people have now moved to Eclipse, which I find performs unacceptably slowly, even on a high spec machine with plenty of RAM. In fact, there's a real Eclipse gestapo that try to imply that you're not a real coder unless you're using it, which annoys me no end. Believe it or not, all of the front end developers I know, who work in HTML, CSS and JavaScript only, spend most of their time in code view too - WYSIWYG is not an effective development tool for creating any kind of site, imho. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com

> People used to say "it's too slow compared to HomeSite/CFStudio" but > these people have now moved to Eclipse, which I find performs > unacceptably slowly, even on a high spec machine with plenty of RAM. > In fact, there's a real Eclipse gestapo that try to imply that you're > not a real coder unless you're using it, which annoys me no end. I'm right there with you Kay.  People are afraid to admit they use DW because of the Eclipse gestapo. I find DW much easier to work with, and if/when I occasionally need to use the design view, it's very helpful.  I've tried CFEclipse a few times, and it's nice for some things, but I end up coming back to DW. DW was a dog for me at first, but once I switched off "Show contents of included file" in the preferences it was all gravy.  That option really gums up the works. -- Josh

Heh, maybe we should all start a DW CF coders support/therapy group, to deal with all the discrimination and emotional abuse :-) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

>> because of the Eclipse gestapo. I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me. -- "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them." - Sir William Bragg

I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Gerald Guido <gerald.guido@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>>I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting. VERY Interesting. I would venture to say that notion reflects a zeitgeist of the CF community as a whole. Namely the skill/Knowledge divide This notion has been touched on several  times http://www.briankotek.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/4/5/The-CF-Skill-Divide http://www.robgonda.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/6/1/Coldfusion-skill-divide http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/290513.htm On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Aar ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

So are you assuming that all DW users are unskilled and only Eclipse users delve into frameworks and other cutting edge tech? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

I was wondering the same thing because the post implied that to me but I figured I was reading it wrong.  I do not think IDE selection is a sign of skill one way or the other.  I do however think that people get a little too pushy about what IDE to use or not use and that feeling of mine dates back before I ever heard of Eclipse. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> I was wondering the same thing because the post implied that to me > but I figured I was reading it wrong.  I do not think IDE selection is > a sign of skill one way or the other.  I do however think that people > get a little too pushy about what IDE to use or not use and that > feeling of mine dates back before I ever heard of Eclipse. Back before Macromedia, if I remember correctly, there was a fair amount of disdain for both Homesite and Dreamweaver users amongst those of us who used ColdFusion Studio (at times myself included I must admit). I get the same sort of vibe from a lot of Eclipse advocates. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view.  It also had the horrible Mac disembodied windows.  We also were not happy with the first version of it after MM dropped CfStudio.  It has improved greatly along the road to 8.  I still wish they would make a version of it without the wysiwyg part.  That would be awesome. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:09 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*> I was wondering the same thing because the post implied that to me /*> but I figured I was reading it wrong.  I do not think IDE selection is /*> a sign of skill one way or the other.  I do however think that people /*> get a little too pushy about what IDE to use or not use and that /*> feeling of mine dates back before I ever heard of Eclipse. /* /*Back before Macromedia, if I remember correctly, there was a fair amount /*of disdain for both Homesite and Dreamweaver users amongst those of us who /*used ColdFusion Studio (at times myself included I must admit). I get /*the same sort of vibe from a lot of Eclipse advocates. /* /*-- /*s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch /* isn't it time for a change? /*     ph: 617.365.5732 /* /*http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog /* /* /* /*

> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view. DW has a code view since release 1, back in 1997. It was vastly improved in DW 4, since 2000, before the Allaire aquisition. Massimo

Yeah, but until 5, I really wouldn't call it code view... /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:30 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view. /* /*DW has a code view since release 1, back in 1997. It was vastly improved /*in /*DW 4, since 2000, before the Allaire aquisition. /* /*Massimo /* /* /*

> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view.  It > also had the horrible Mac disembodied windows.  We also were not happy with > the first version of it after MM dropped CfStudio.  It has improved greatly > along the road to 8.  I still wish they would make a version of it without > the wysiwyg part.  That would be awesome. > > Eric Yeah, I know I wasn't happy with DW at the time they dropped CFS. These days it's the most productive way for me to work, in spite of still being imperfect in several ways like the wysiwyg popping open on me. (Which I may have just fixed thanks to somebody here making me doulbe-check my prefs - doh!) Personally I'm agnostic about the separate windows thing... I wasn't enthused about the fact that GIMP had them, but it wasn't a turn off for me either. What bugs me about GIMP is that the rest of its interface is really unintuitive and challenging to learn. Someone the other day mentioned to me the notion of a keyboard shortcut for "send to back" in Unix versions instead of the Windows alt+tab "bring to front" as being a better way of handling windowed interfaces and making the separate windows a lot more sensible. I'd actually like to see that implemented on Windows -- at least on hearing it, I thought it did sound like a good design. But it's nowhere near compelling enough for me to start looking for a Unix version I can install on one of my machines. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

The separate windows thing really bugged me...but then again I really dislike Macs too.  It's one of the things I hate about gimp too, but unfortunately I am forced to use that. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:19 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view. /*It /*> also had the horrible Mac disembodied windows.  We also were not happy /*with /*> the first version of it after MM dropped CfStudio.  It has improved /*greatly /*> along the road to 8.  I still wish they would make a version of it /*without /*> the wysiwyg part.  That would be awesome. /*> /*> Eric /* /*Yeah, I know I wasn't happy with DW at the time they dropped CFS. These /*days it's the most productive way for me to work, in spite of still /*being imperfect in several ways like the wysiwyg popping open on me. /*(Which /*I may have just fixed thanks to somebody here making me doulbe-check my /*prefs - doh!) /* /*Personally I'm agnostic about the separate windows thing... I wasn't /*enthused about the fact that GIMP had them, but it wasn't a turn off for /*me either. What bugs me about GIMP is that the rest of its interface is /*really unintuitive and challenging to learn. Someone the other day /*mentioned to me the notion of a keyboard shortcut for "send to back" in /*Unix versions instead of the Windows alt+tab "bring to front" as being a /*better way of handling windowed interfaces and making the separate /*windows a lot more sensible. I'd actually like to see that implemented /*on Windows -- at least on hearing it, I thought it did sound like a good /*design. But it's nowhere near compelling enough for me to start looking /*for a Unix version I can install on one of my machines. /* /*-- /*s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch /* isn't it time for a change? /*     ph: 617.365.5732 /* /*http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog /* /* /* /*

> The separate windows thing really bugged me...but then again I really > dislike Macs too.  It's one of the things I hate about gimp too, but > unfortunately I am forced to use that. DW has had a docked, full MDI since the MX2004 release. It hasn't been floating windows since version 4. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com

Yeah...and that was a major improvement.  The separate windows kept me from using DW prior to that. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:52 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Eric Roberts /*<owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: /*> The separate windows thing really bugged me...but then again I really /*> dislike Macs too.  It's one of the things I hate about gimp too, but /*> unfortunately I am forced to use that. /* /*DW has had a docked, full MDI since the MX2004 release. It hasn't been /*floating windows since version 4. /* /*-- /*Kay Smoljak /*business: www.cleverstarfish.com /*coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com /*personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com /* /*

I make no assumptions. I made an observation. My wording was not intended to offend, if I did my apologies. G On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:52 PM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I suspect it's actually a fair observation, unfortunately. It might have prompted the bizarre requirement I noted in a recent contract opportunity on CF-Jobs; the advertisement specified that the remote contractor must use CFEclipse. It's amazing that a choice of IDE could affect a teleworking contract. Let's hope no-one finds out I'm vegan! > I make no assumptions. I made an observation. My wording was not intended to > offend, if I did my apologies. -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

All my contractors have to be CFEclipse using, Meat eatin' and Beer Drinking mad persons.  Its part of the contract. If they have tattoo's they get a bonus. MD ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>>All my contractors have to be CFEclipse using, Meat eatin' and Beer >>Drinking mad persons.  Its part of the contract. >> If they have tattoo's they get a bonus. -- Ribeye, -- Baltica No. 9 -- Motorhead insignia ad the Obey Giant Star So, you hiring? G ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> It's amazing that a choice of IDE could affect a teleworking contract. In a remote-team environment, I think it's fairly important everyone has the same tools (and the same problems with them). -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

James please read my first post on this thread. -- "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them." - Sir William Bragg

Eclipse Gestapo...hahaha...that's great! Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:40 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*>>I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting. /* /*VERY Interesting. I would venture to say that notion reflects a zeitgeist /*of /*the CF community as a whole. Namely the skill/Knowledge divide /* /*This notion has been touched on several  times /* /*http://www.briankotek.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/4/5/The-CF-Skill-Divide /*http://www.robgonda.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/6/1/Coldfusion-skill-divide /*http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/290513.htm /* /* /* /*On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Aaron Rouse <aaron.rouse@gmail.com> /*wrote: /* /*> I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting. /*> /*> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Gerald Guido <gerald.guido@gmail.com> /*> wrote: /*> /*> > >> because of the Eclipse gestapo. /*> > /*> > I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me. /*> > /*> > /*> > -- /*> > "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as /*to /*> > discover new ways of thinking about them." /*> > - Sir William Bragg /*> > /*> > /*> > /*> /*> /* /*

I vill build a IDE that will last two zounsand yearz! Ehem... no.. its the fact that if you made the effort to know CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers etc. Its a quick discrimination from the junk. Hey, I can code ASP with Dreamweaver. Would you hire me as an ASP developer because of that? MD ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I'd want to look at code before assuming that it was built with a wizard. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

James I get a number of CF's through, people claim many things on that nice bit of fiction that is called a CV. When I get to choosing people for interviews, people with "Eclipse", Frameworks, version control etc etc will be getting through (well, not all the time) but at least it gives me an idea where their head is at for senior roles. Discrimination? NAY! Its like reading that they have used Access compared to MS SQL to me. MD ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

That should have been CV's rather than CF's ;) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

When was the last time you looked at Dreamweaver's code view? > > Its like reading that they have used Access compared to MS SQL to me. -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- My word - I hope I never have to apply for a job to someone as blinkered as you. -- mac jordan www.webhorus.net www.nibblous.com www.kestrel.org www.jordan-cats.org

I have used Dreamweaver a lot. And I have looked at the code view and used it (not just tried it, Its the fourth tool in my armoury of editors) so I am not belittling the tool at all. And no, I am not blinkered, I am NOT saying that if you have Dreamweaver you will not get the job, it depends on a lot of other things that are on the CV. I think I am very good at spotting good talent and dont really care what you code in. But from EXPERIENCE of reading these CV's and interviewing people that is what I have found. Now, there are many exceptions to the rule obviously, and have interviewed many people who's tool of choice is  CFStudio or HomeSite and things are different. Depends on the job that people are going for of course. Also, I should point out that even our HTML ers use Aptana (an Eclipse product) as well as Dreamweaver. I prefer to have as many tools available to me, and know what their strengths and weaknesses are. I am NOT blinkered, and take objection to the comment MD ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"... What is "blinkered"? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Rick... Don't encourage them!!!! Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE (402) 408-3733 ext 105 www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com www.necfug.com Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"... What is "blinkered"? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

It's the closest I come to viewing a "soap opera"... "As the IDE Churns"... ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

In ye olde times, and even now I presume, horses were given blinkers, these little leather things so they wouldnt look to the sides and could only look in one direction, the one you were pulling their heads in. Kinda kinky in an S&M thing I guess, but meaning that I can only see in one way, being blind to all the myriad of options. Of course, being a developer as well as the lead developer for CFEclipse, I do get to speak to a *LOT* of developers. The most common thing I get at the bar from other developers are commentaries, dialogs and monologues about Editors. So yeah, I know a thing or two about Editors, I look at IN DETAIL how they implement features and what features they have. Hence I get a bit tetchy when someone calls me blinkered. MD > Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"... > What is "blinkered"? > -- Mark Drew Blog: http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdrew

Gotcha... we call them "blinders", I think...(not being an equestrian)... ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I prefer DW as it saves me a lot of time and the site oriented layout fits in more with how we have our servers set up.  While I think eclipse is a great idea and I think CFEclipse has a future, I don't think it is better than DW if you put it feature to feature.  I would love to see a wysiwyg free version of DW as I never used it.  I only use Eclipse now because I have to...though I am sure I can ask my boss to get me a DW license.  I too keep trying hard to like it and well wish that it is ready for prime time, but it does fall short. To judge someone based on the IDE they use is VERY short sighted Mark and the comparison is not even close. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 4:08 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*James /* /*I get a number of CF's through, people claim many things on that nice /*bit of fiction that is called a CV. /* /*When I get to choosing people for interviews, people with "Eclipse", /*Frameworks, version control etc etc will be getting through (well, not /*all the time) but at least it gives me an idea where their head is at /*for senior roles. /* /*Discrimination? NAY! /* /*Its like reading that they have used Access compared to MS SQL to me. /* /*MD /* /*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:01 AM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com> /*wrote: /*> I'd want to look at code before assuming that it was built with a /*wizard. /*> /*> /*>> I vill build a IDE that will last two zounsand yearz! /*>> /*>> Ehem... no.. its the fact that if you made the effort to know /*>> CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they /*>> can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers /*>> etc. /*>> /*>> Its a quick discrimination from the junk. /*>> /*>> Hey, I can code ASP with Dreamweaver. Would you hire me as an ASP /*>> developer because of that? /*> /*> -- /*> mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: /*> http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ /*> /*> /* /*

> CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they > can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers I assume this is why most places set a practical programing test as part of the interview. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

> > CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they > > can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers > > I assume this is why most places set a practical programing test as part of > the interview. Funny... I remember the days when Access was much more common than it is now and there was that distinction between people who'd used Access databases and people who'd used SQL Server... except that in my experience, the folks who had SQL Server experience were quite often not any more knowledgeable about databases or even for that matter about SQL. Many of the guys I worked directly with did all their SQL work in the visual editors in Enterprise Manager (which creates horrid, horrid bleeding-eyes syntax and is essentially a "grown up" version of the Access IDE). A handful of them even verbally marvelled that when they asked me to help them with a database task, the first thing I would do is open Query Analyzer and go straight to hand-coding the SQL saying things like "I don't know how you do that". I was the other way around -- I had a hard time imagining how they got any work done in Enterprise Manager. To me a language is a language, and that's the first thing you learn -- editors come later once you've mastered the syntax. Fortunately I've never had a practical skill test where anyone asked me specifically to work with a visual query builder or a wysiwyg editor. Not that I couldn't figure it out, but it's not the easiest way for me to work. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

This is basically what bugs me about DW, it has this cloud around it that if someone uses it then they must be using wizards, tutorials/helpers, and/or WYSIWYG features.  I have been using it for 4 years now and simply because the people I do the bulk of my work for, they use it and in that entire time I used a wizard/tutorial once during a lunch break just to see what it was like and never once opened up the WSYIWYG.  Not one person in the entire group uses wizards or WYSIWYG features and actually I think a good portion of them do not even realize that those things are in DW.  I remember a similar cloud being around Homesite vs CFStudio many years ago and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed an old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed an > old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code. Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in this very thread. (CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

She did not use the design view and I never have used the design view, she had in her head that it just would change code out of the blue and probably from reading things online.  In the 4 years I have used DW, it has never behind my back changed any code accept for one odd ball instance when editing an XML file with a very specific element name.  But of course in the 4 years I have used it, I can not think of one single time I looked at the design view, it is just an option the software has that I never once have used. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I think it's worth to let people know that avoid using DW's Design View doesn't make you save from code corruption. Most documented cases are caused by "translators", unfortunately translators run before you load the document, and they do no matter if you are in Code view or Design View. Want to see DW's code corruption in action? Create an xml file containing this code, then open it in DW CS 3 or earlier (in Code View, there is no Design View for XML): <?xml version="1.0"?> <!DOCTYPE galleries [ <!ENTITY galleries SYSTEM "http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/demos/gallery/galleries/galleries.xml">; ]> <root> &galleries; </root> As far as I know, this specific case is fixed in DW CS 4. Along the years DW has improved a lot on this area, but it's not 100% safe, it will never be. As for me, I use both DW and Ecplise, most of the time I have both of them opened at the same time, sometimes I open TopStyle too :-) ---------------------------- Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

To save some of you the effort... I did this in CS3.  After saving the file and reopening it, I saw this... <?xml version="1.0"?> <!DOCTYPE galleries [ <!ENTITY galleries SYSTEM "http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/demos/gallery/galleries/galleri es.xml"> ]> <root> <galleries><gallery><sitename></sitename><photographer></photographer><c ontactinfo></contactinfo><email></email><security></security></gallery>< gallery><sitename></sitename><photographer></photographer><contactinfo>< /contactinfo><email></email><security></security></gallery><gallery><sit ename></sitename><photographer></photographer><contactinfo></contactinfo ><email></email><security></security></gallery></galleries> </root> I think it's worth to let people know that avoid using DW's Design View doesn't make you save from code corruption. Most documented cases are caused by "translators", unfortunately translators run before you load the document, and they do no matter if you are in Code view or Design View. Want to see DW's code corruption in action? Create an xml file containing this code, then open it in DW CS 3 or earlier (in Code View, there is no Design View for XML): <?xml version="1.0"?> <!DOCTYPE galleries [ <!ENTITY galleries SYSTEM "http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/demos/gallery/galleries/galleri es.xml"> ]> <root> &galleries; </root> As far as I know, this specific case is fixed in DW CS 4. Along the years DW has improved a lot on this area, but it's not 100% safe, it will never be. As for me, I use both DW and Ecplise, most of the time I have both of them opened at the same time, sometimes I open TopStyle too :-) ---------------------------- Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

Wow. You know, I like to tease DW, but I know it's a decent enough editor. It's just not my editor. But are you telling me - and I want to be clear here - that there is NO way to fix this? That you CANNOT guarantee that DW won't change your code? To me - that is unacceptable. I'd ban DW from my environment. I can't believe an editor would even exist that would do this. I mean I knew DW had issues with code in the past, but Code View was supposed to leave stuff alone. Seriously - can someone stand up for this and say that changing a user's XML is "good"? Can anyone defend this? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

> But are you telling me - and I want to be clear here - that there is > NO way to fix this? That you CANNOT guarantee that DW won't change > your code? No, there is no way. It's the nature of the beast. DW automatically changes code for some "reasonable" reasons. For example, you open a new page, then add an image tag (either from code or design view) and point DW to a file. It creates something like: <img src="file:///C|/mydir/mypage.jpg" /> Then, as soon you save the page, DW "fixes" the path, making it relative to the location where you saved the page. The vast majority of times, those "fixes" work very well, on a few occasions, they don't. Unfortunately MM first, then Adobe, never added an option to "never touch by code", that would completely disable all these automatic functionality. No matter how much people like me or Tom Muck lobbied for it. Translators have been another problematic area too, yet they are critical to the way DW works, and they kick in both in Code or Design View. > I mean I knew DW had issues with code in the past, but Code View was > supposed to leave stuff alone. "Code View is safe" it's just urban legend, I keep saying this since many, many years (check list's archive). Seems like people don't believe me, if I am considered a DW expert... Don't get me wrong, I am not saying DW is crap, I am just saying you better be aware of its shortcoming. As I said, I use both DW and Eclipse at the very same time, as they stand, both are quite far from being the CFML IDE I am looking for. ---------------------------- Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems like it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers. > But are you telling me - and I want to be clear here - that there is > NO way to fix this? That you CANNOT guarantee that DW won't change > your code? No, there is no way. It's the nature of the beast. DW automatically changes code for some "reasonable" reasons. For example, you open a new page, then add an image tag (either from code or design view) and point DW to a file. It creates something like: <img src="file:///C|/mydir/mypage.jpg" /> Then, as soon you save the page, DW "fixes" the path, making it relative to the location where you saved the page. The vast majority of times, those "fixes" work very well, on a few occasions, they don't. Unfortunately MM first, then Adobe, never added an option to "never touch by code", that would completely disable all these automatic functionality. No matter how much people like me or Tom Muck lobbied for it. Translators have been another problematic area too, yet they are critical to the way DW works, and they kick in both in Code or Design View. > I mean I knew DW had issues with code in the past, but Code View was > supposed to leave stuff alone. "Code View is safe" it's just urban legend, I keep saying this since many, many years (check list's archive). Seems like people don't believe me, if I am considered a DW expert... Don't get me wrong, I am not saying DW is crap, I am just saying you better be aware of its shortcoming. As I said, I use both DW and Eclipse at the very same time, as they stand, both are quite far from being the CFML IDE I am looking for. ---------------------------- Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

> Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems > like > it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers. I don't think it would be that easy to implement such a feature in DW, but I am just guessing. Anyway, programmers aren't DW's main target market. Massimo

BAH! I'm a Notepad.exe man myself. (To any employers out there, the above is a joke). :) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Yeh, I have the stable release of Eclipse 3.4 (Ganymede) and the search works great. To Qing: Select the project/folder want to search in the navigator view and hit CTRL-H (or there maybe a torch icon somewhere in your toolbars). In the dialog that opens you can then select the 'scope' of the search which should default to 'Selected resources' in this case. Dominic ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I looked earlier and believe I have 3.3.2 On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Dominic Watson < watson.dominic@googlemail.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or code hinting based of an Xml Schema? (Not DTD) It looks like it does, but just looking for confirmation. Mark On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:45 AM, Aar ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or code > hinting based of an Xml Schema? (Not DTD) > > It looks like it does, but just looking for confirmation. I am almost sure it does schema validation too. As for code hinting, importing either an .xsd or a .dtd is a piece of cake. DW automatically generates the .vtm files out of the schema/dtd and add them to its tag library. That's a very nifty, little-know feature. That's what I use to generate the vtm I package as DW extensions for Transfer/Fusebox/MG/Mach-II. Massimo

>> Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or code ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Just checked. It does both. And you get code hints even without importing the schema. DW parses it on the fly. Massimo

> I looked earlier and believe I have 3.3.2 Workspace-wide search is in the 3.3 series too. Probably 3.2 if I remember my home machine right... -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

The only time I have noticed any problems with DW "fixing" code is when you are using XML tags within a file that does not have .xml as the extension.  (This doesn't mean this is the only way DW changes code, I'm just saying this is the only way it has affected me.) For example, if you are writing XMl tags within a .cfm file.  DW will want to either upper-case or lower-case the XML. Our Cisco phones require mixed-case XML tags such as <CiscoIPPhoneText>, <MenuItem>, <URL>, etc. When I close the XML tags by typing "</", DW will force the XML tags to lower-case. I have filed a bug with Adobe regarding this issue. Other than that, DW works great for me and I always use code view. m!ke Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Edit > Preferences > Code Format Be sure "override case of tags" is unchecked. Massimo

It is. ------ Edit > Preferences > Code Format Be sure "override case of tags" is unchecked. Massimo

> It is. Weird... I can't reproduce the problem. Do you have custom tag libraries defined for those tags? Massimo

Nope. No custom tag libraries. I open a .cfm document.  Type: <MixTagCase> followed by </Mix.  When I hit enter, to accept the selection, DW inserts </mixtagcase> m!ke > It is. Weird... I can't reproduce the problem. Do you have custom tag libraries defined for those tags? Massimo

> I open a .cfm document.  Type: <MixTagCase> followed by </Mix.   When I > hit enter, to accept the selection, DW inserts </mixtagcase> Got it! I had to first change my preferences for code hints, I had the second radio button checked, had to check the first. Massimo

Maybe if you rant about it enough it can be fuel for the SS  :)  I think you are making a bigger issue out of it than it really is.  If it was such a big issue I would think we would see people complaining about it quite often or at least some.  It sounds like the problem happens more specific to editing XML files and perhaps the issue does not get experienced much because people edit XML files in something else or perhaps just do not use them much or perhaps it has to be something very specific in the files to cause the rewrite.  One of our inhouse built frameworks uses a lot of XML files and like I  mentioned before there is only one small case in all of those where DW changes the file without prompting the person and out of all the projects that framework is used and all the people who are involved with those, there is just me and one other person who have experienced it and the change is something one could overlook because the framework throws an error when it happens. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that > other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after > hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm > throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your > editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless. The first time I tried to use Dreamweaver, a good number of years ago mind you (prior to the MX brand), I had the unpleasant experience of one or two of my code templates mangled. So of course I immediately stopped using it. I tried it again much later either just before or just after the release of Dreamweaver MX and have never had that problem since then. The only thing that bothers me consistently in Dreamweaver 8 is the fact that I can't prevent it from continually and gratuitously opening the design view on its own. I had asked about the ability to just disable the design view (which, in spite of what Massimo and other say about the impossibility of having Dreamweaver not touch the code), should be pretty darn simple -- nothing would have to change even _except_ that the design view button would go away (and presumably it would stop opening on its own). The design view actually is the feature that had mangled my code those years ago the first time I had tried it, but given that it opens on its own, constantly (dozens if not hundreds of times per day), and it's not mangled any of my code in the several years since the release of MX, I'd say it's pretty safe now. At the office now I have a new annoyance, which is repeated alert boxes in Dreamweaver to let me know that some inadequately explained Spry thing isn't the way it ought to be. Generally speaking I'm not so horribly offended by that, given that I haven't cared for really much of any of what I've seen of Spry. (Check out my blog -- I've ranted several times in the past month or so.) In general I'm happy with Dreamweaver. Last year when I was working in Portland, I was asked to work in Eclipse and I did for about 6 months, but I never got to a point where I enjoyed it. All told I found that it really just made my job more difficult and increased the amount of time it took me to get things done. At the end of the day, I'd much rather say that I got some work done, rather than that I figured out something new (and usually frustrating) about Eclipse. I've heard that they've improved the search feature, which was one of my bigger complaints at the time, although I haven't gone back and looked at it since then. The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in Dreamweaver is the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC -- which is a very minor thing for me, certainly a lot less important than the fact that the multi-file search in Eclipse is untrustworthy (or at least was when I was using it). But if I were still having problems with Dreamweaver mangling my code, I definitely wouldn't be using it every day either. I'd be "toughing it out" with Eclipse or I'd move back to something else like Homesite+ or maybe I'd give jEdit another try. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

In the DW prefs, you can specify a list of file types that should only be opened in code view.   _____ Sent: Fri 5/30/2008 6:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Best CF editor? > Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that > other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after > hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm > throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your > editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless. The first time I tried to use Dreamweaver, a good number of years ago mind you (prior to the MX brand), I had the unpleasant experience of one or two of my code templates mangled. So of course I immediately stopped using it.

> In the DW prefs, you can specify a list of file types that should > only be opened in code view. Oh strange... at first I thought to myself "yeah, I've seen that setting" and was pretty sure the cf extensions were in there, but then I figured since you mentioned it I may as well double check before I respond. I'd have thought at a minimum, .cfc and .cfr would have been in that list by default but I guess they're not... so we'll see if that resolves my issue with design view popping open on its own. Thanks for the reminder. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

> The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in Dreamweaver is > the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC Available since 3 years on my website :-) http://www.massimocorner.com/dreamweaver/coldfusion/cf_function_nav.mxp ----------------------------   Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------  

> > The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in Dreamweaver is > > the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC > > Available since 3 years on my website :-) > http://www.massimocorner.com/dreamweaver/coldfusion/cf_function_nav.mxp Thanks Massimo! Exactly what I was looking for. :) -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that > other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after > hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm > throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your > editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless. You can set all this in the preferences: Edit -> Preferences -> Code Rewriting Check "Never Rewrite Code" Then you can set which types of files to not touch with a list of file extensions. -- Josh

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I am sorry to say that's doesn't cut. DW still pretends to "fix" things even with that setting (I've turned it off 10 years ago) and translators kick in anyway. Massimo

It's not the editor...it is the wysiwyg part that changes code.  If you don't use it, it will never effect you. /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:22 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that /*other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after /*hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm /*throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your /*editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless. /* /*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Massimo Foti /*<massimo@massimocorner.com> wrote: /*>> Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems /*>> like /*>> it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers. /*> /*> I don't think it would be that easy to implement such a feature in DW, /*but I /*> am just guessing. /*> Anyway, programmers aren't DW's main target market. /*> /* /*-- /*========================================================================== /*= /*Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice /* /*Email : ray@camdenfamily.com /*Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com /*AOL IM : cfjedimaster /* /*Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org /* /*

Massimo(sp?) gave an example that I believe others were able to repeat where DW rewrites and XML file.  I have seen DW do this for one of ours, here is what the files have prior to opening them: <StyleSearch>""</StyleSearch> When opened up in DW the display shows this instead: <StyleSearch>"</StyleSearch> If you make some change in the file then save it, you unknowingly have saved it with that change but you quickly find out because I frame work throws an error on that.  I just tested it in DW 8 and it happened as I explained. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I don't do a lot of xml so I guess I never saw anything like that.  Is that just 1 double quote or 2 single quotes?  If it is single quotes, you may have something (might even be a default) for xml files that changes that in accordance with some xml standard. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:16 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*Massimo(sp?) gave an example that I believe others were able to repeat /*where /*DW rewrites and XML file.  I have seen DW do this for one of ours, here is /*what the files have prior to opening them: /* /*<StyleSearch>""</StyleSearch> /* /*When opened up in DW the display shows this instead: /* /*<StyleSearch>"</StyleSearch> /* /*If you make some change in the file then save it, you unknowingly have /*saved /*it with that change but you quickly find out because I frame work throws /*an /*error on that.  I just tested it in DW 8 and it happened as I explained. /* /*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Eric Roberts <

It starts off as two double quotes next to one another, DW changes it to one single double quote. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Eric Roberts < owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- I can't reproduce this on a very basic XML file, either in DW CS 3 or CS 4 beta. I imagine the file could be a bitter more complicated than that, so the problem could be more elusive. Would you mind send me a copy of a file that triggers the problem? Please feel free to contact me directly. Thanks Massimo

> It's not the editor...it is the wysiwyg part that changes code.  If you > don't use it, it will never effect you. Once again, sorry to be rude, but that's an urban legend. And I've proved many times in the past. Not only with XML files, try the <img> example I explained early in this thread. It demonstrates that DW changes your code, even if you never use the wysiwyg. In that cases, as most of the times, it does a good job, but it's designed to automatically change your code. Massimo

> Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems like > it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers. It's there: if you set DW to fix invalidly nested tags (or choose one of the other rewriting options) you get a second option enabled which lets you specify the types of files in which DW shouldn't ever rewrite code - I always do this and add .cfm to the list (and .html and .php and .xml and .log and .txt and anything else I'm likely to work with). FWIW, I have been using DW since MX on a daily basis as a code editor, and I've never had the code corruption problems that Massimo mentions. Perhaps I work with different types of files? K. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com

> FWIW, I have been using DW since MX on a daily basis as a code editor, > and I've never had the code corruption problems that Massimo mentions. > Perhaps I work with different types of files? It's not that code corruptions happens on a weekly basis, especially since DW MX, but it still can happens. For me it's once a year or the like. It's just that you better be aware of the nature of the beast. Massimo

What are some examples of it doing it to non-xml documents?  I actually have been getting to the point of not opening XML documents in DW due to the one odd-ball example where it changes things for me.  My odd-ball example I think effects just 2 or 3 files out of all of our files in any of our projects.  But that is the very reason I just do not do any XML files in DW, because I will forget which 2 or 3 files have the issue. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> What are some examples of it doing it to non-xml documents? The CF-related examples I was aware of were all fixed in the last 3-4 releases. But I am not willing to bet there are more I am just not aware of. I hope there is no need for me to explain I have no anti-DW bias. I would imagine my curriculum speaks for me. I am just realistic. ---------------------------- Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

I only ever used design view if I was having a stubborn table that just would not cooperate.  I can probably count the number of times I used that on one hand.  Other than that, it was all code view. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:01 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*She did not use the design view and I never have used the design view, she /*had in her head that it just would change code out of the blue and /*probably /*from reading things online.  In the 4 years I have used DW, it has never /*behind my back changed any code accept for one odd ball instance when /*editing an XML file with a very specific element name.  But of course in /*the /*4 years I have used it, I can not think of one single time I looked at the /*design view, it is just an option the software has that I never once have /*used. /* /*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Tom Chiverton /*<tom.chiverton@halliwells.com> /*wrote: /* /*> /*> > and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she /*needed /*> an /*> > old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code. /*> /*> Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in /*> this /*> very thread. /*> (CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back. /*> /*> -- /*> Tom Chiverton /*> /*> **************************************************** /*> /*> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. /*> /*> Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England /*and /*> Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address /*is at /*> Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A /*> list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. /*Any /*> reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of /*> Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. /*> /*> CONFIDENTIALITY /*> /*> This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and /*> may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee /*you /*> must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy /*it /*> nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its /*> existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please /*> delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. /*> /*> For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. /*> /*> /* /*

How does DW CV mess with your CFML?  I don't remember ever experiencing that.  I do vaguely remembering an old version of CFStudio doing that at some point...V4/4.5 maybe? Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 9:10 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /* /*> and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed /*an /*> old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code. /* /*Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in /*this /*very thread. /*(CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back. /* /*-- /*Tom Chiverton /* /***************************************************** /* /*This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. /* /*Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England /*and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address /*is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 /*3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered /*office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a /*member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation /*Authority. /* /*CONFIDENTIALITY /* /*This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and /*may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee /*you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor /*copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee /*of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error /*please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. /* /*For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. /* /*

Cancel that...design view...NM :-D Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 9:10 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /* /*> and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed /*an /*> old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code. /* /*Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in /*this /*very thread. /*(CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back. /* /*-- /*Tom Chiverton /* /***************************************************** /* /*This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. /* /*Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England /*and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address /*is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 /*3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered /*office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a /*member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation /*Authority. /* /*CONFIDENTIALITY /* /*This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and /*may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee /*you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor /*copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee /*of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error /*please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. /* /*For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. /* /*

> > because of the Eclipse gestapo. > I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me. Oh, no, everyone who uses Eclipse is a member of the Thousand Year Riche. Oh yes. Let me just check my suitcase for Scotch on the Rocks.... Laptop: check Wash bag: check Sharp suit: check Long coat (black): check SS cap: check -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

Any second now someone is going to invoke Godwin's law. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>>Any second now someone is going to invoke Godwin's law. Too late. Tom Chiverton broke out his SS cap early this morning. ;) G ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Hello folks: I am a newbie with CFEclilpse.  I installed it about a week ago and so far, I am loving it. :-) Like most open-source product though, there is a dizzing array of help information online, but most of them are for advanced stuff, whereas I am only looking for tips to get me started. Would anyone recommend a good online resource for CFEclipse, please? For example, how on earth can I do an Extended Search like the one you are able to do in HomeSite+, by specifying a folder to search in? Tracy Xia ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>> a good online resource for CFEclipse, please? This is a good place to start: http://www.dopefly.com/projects/cfeclipse.cfm -- "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them." - Sir William Bragg

a good source of documentation is the wiki at http://trac.cfeclipse.org/cfeclipse/ you should also subscribe to the cfeclipse-users mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/cfeclipse-users extended searches can be done via CTRL-H and choosing a specific working set within which to search.  which i suppose will raise the question of "what's a working set?" :) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>> which i suppose will raise the question of "what's a working set?" :) Problem solved:  http://www.dopefly.com/techblog/entry.cfm?entry=129 BTW Nathan Strutz has TONS of CFEclipse stuff on his site. Lots of good resources: http://www.dopefly.com/techblog/?bycategory=5 -- "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them." - Sir William Bragg

I was asked to define a "work space" the first time I started CFEclipse,, which I have done and it is my entire code application folder (consisting of several different CF applications). But work set? Have not done that. I am going to look it up in the online references you have so graciously provided. Thanks guys! :-) ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> But work set? Have not done that. I am going to look it up in the online > references you have so graciously provided. I'd skip learning it, and jump straight to the (free) Mylyn plugin, which automatically filters the file navigator based on what files you actually worked with. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

The search functionality of Eclipse has always been something I felt was lacking.  There was a thread on here a month or back where someone mentioned it had been changed finally, not sure if that change is in the current stable version or in one of the others.  I did install Eclipse along with CFEclipse and a few other things just a couple weeks ago and do not recall the search page being different for me but I also can not recall if I have searched for anything in it since I only use that setup on one of my machines and not a whole lot. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

CTRL + H brings up the search all selected projects dialog box. Hello folks: I am a newbie with CFEclilpse.  I installed it about a week ago and so far, I am loving it. :-) Like most open-source product though, there is a dizzing array of help information online, but most of them are for advanced stuff, whereas I am only looking for tips to get me started. Would anyone recommend a good online resource for CFEclipse, please? For example, how on earth can I do an Extended Search like the one you are able to do in HomeSite+, by specifying a folder to search in? Tracy Xia ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Eclipse help from Andy Matthews...Whodathunkit! ;) (says the guy sitting next to him in the office...) Steve "Cutter" Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _____________________________ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Andy Matthews wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Eh... It's only of the only good things ABOUT Eclipse. :) Eclipse help from Andy Matthews...Whodathunkit! ;) (says the guy sitting next to him in the office...) Steve "Cutter" Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _____________________________ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Andy Matthews wrote: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I could be wrong but I think he wants to be able to make the search just search in a folder that is within a project but not the other folders in that project.  I am sure it can be done via the ctrl-h search screen, although looking at it right now I do not see how it is done but probably just lack of experience with it on my part. How do you run a search that only searches currently opened files? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Not sure about open files, but you can define persistent "working sets", which can include a few projects, or just selected folders within one project, then search on that. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Aar ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>>> because of the Eclipse gestapo. > >I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me. > You know, I've never noticed that Eclipse is slow, especially on my MacBook. It certainly is a lot faster than dreamweaver, and the setup I use is fast MyEclipse and CFEclipse. MyEclipse give me all the database and xml features that others tout in one package, as well as server control (I use jboss and java a lot).

At a certain point, this conversation becomes very unproductive.  All IDE's have their advantages and disadvantages--so which is better?  Well, the answer doesn't really have an answer because all offer different ways of doing things, and each person has their own development needs. So really, to answer the question, just try out a few and go with what helps you do what you need to do in the most efficient and least-frustrating way possible.   Whatever tool facilitates that is what is the best IDE, period. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> I'm right there with you Kay.  People are afraid to admit they use DW > because of the Eclipse gestapo. > > Absolutely - I have tried and tried to like Eclipse, but it's too project-based for me, and I miss DW's code completion.  My copy is very heavily customised.  WYSIWYG would be useless for me anyway - we work in code blocks and includes, and even the CSS doesn't show up because of that. -- mac jordan www.webhorus.net www.nibblous.com www.kestrel.org www.jordan-cats.org

The "project based" thing does bug me about me Eclipse as well. I think the bug for "Let me double click on a file and open it in Eclipse" is something like 10 years old (Ok, maybe not 10...) I "get" that projects are "better", but not being able to quickly edit a file just seems... silly. Now that being said - don't forget you have multiple options to work with files not in projects. In CFE you have the File Explorer. In the CF bits (remember the CF Extensions come from Adobe, CFE is another project) you have RDS. I think Aptana has a File Browser as well. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Yeah, WYSIWYG is more or less unusable for professional web design because doing such on a professional level requires intimate involvement in the code and has to transcend drag-n-drop of simplified components.  That being said, I think the WYSIWYG is good enough in Dreamweaver CS3 to more or less get a good idea of what is going on rendering-side to save incessant IDE-browser switching.  Of course, there will still be plenty of this anyway, but the Dreamweaver as an WYSIWYG can help reduce a bit of it. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I prefer DW, but I don't have a copy, so I use Eclipse, which can be slow and buggy a lot of the time.  I have more times than I should where I am coding and Eclipse does something or jumps around and I am just sitting there wondering what the hell just happened. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:33 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*Yeah, WYSIWYG is more or less unusable for professional web design because /*doing such on a professional level requires intimate involvement in the /*code and has to transcend drag-n-drop of simplified components.  That /*being said, I think the WYSIWYG is good enough in Dreamweaver CS3 to more /*or less get a good idea of what is going on rendering-side to save /*incessant IDE-browser switching.  Of course, there will still be plenty of /*this anyway, but the Dreamweaver as an WYSIWYG can help reduce a bit of /*it. /* /*>On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Phillip Vector /*><vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote: /*>> Dreamweaver is nice... But I think allot of people (myself included) /*>> got scared away from it awhile back when the WYSIWYG editor made code /*>> that was... just unreadable.. Kind of like Front Page *shutter* /*>> /*>> Has Dreamweaver improved enough to give another look at? /*> /*>I've been using DW since the first MX release as a code editor. I /*>don't go into design view (I never went into it in CFStudio either). I /*>turn off most panels and toolbars and work with just the files panel /*>and code window (I'm a keyboard shortcut junkie). It's brilliant - /*>extensible, customisable, powerful. Code hinting for CF, HTML, CSS and /*>JavaScript. SVN in the new version although I used an extension for /*>SVN support in CS3. FTP and SFTP out of the box. /*> /*>People used to say "it's too slow compared to HomeSite/CFStudio" but /*>these people have now moved to Eclipse, which I find performs /*>unacceptably slowly, even on a high spec machine with plenty of RAM. /*>In fact, there's a real Eclipse gestapo that try to imply that you're /*>not a real coder unless you're using it, which annoys me no end. /*> /*>Believe it or not, all of the front end developers I know, who work in /*>HTML, CSS and JavaScript only, spend most of their time in code view /*>too - WYSIWYG is not an effective development tool for creating any /*>kind of site, imho. /*> /*>-- /*>Kay Smoljak /*>business: www.cleverstarfish.com /*>coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com /*>personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com /* /*

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:42 PM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm one of these (apparently) rare Dreamweaver CF coders. We get code > onto our test server with FTP and DW just makes this too easy. > Me too - love that tag completion.  I never ever open it in design mode, mind you. I find it unspeakable for FTP, mind you, but then I always use CVS at the command line. -- mac jordan www.webhorus.net www.nibblous.com www.kestrel.org www.jordan-cats.org

I use Dreamweaver.  I realize that it is not ideal for CF; however, as I pull double-duty as a designer and developer, it makes sense to use Dreamweaver since it is so good at the design side, as well as supporting CF syntax (and a host of others, as already mentioned). So for a developer, Eclipse is probably best, but if you dip into both design and dev, Dreamweaver is a great product. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

I just played with DW's SVN integration. A few notes in no particular order: 1) I made the mistake of pointing to an existing SVN checkout. DW recognized this and warned me (repeatedly). 2) It does color code the icons when you modify a file. 3) Oddly I couldn't compare my modded file to source. I saw an option, but it was grayed out. 4) It does let you see history and do comparisons, although you have to use a third party tool for the diffs. (Bit surprised by that.) DW did not seem able to work with Changes, but maybe that's Change's fault. I'm _considering_ giving it a test drive for a bit - but not if I can't point DW to an existing SVN checkout. No way I'm going to _recheck_ everything out. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Joel Watson <depthdeception@hotmail.com> wrote: > I use Dreamweaver.  I realize that it is not ideal for CF; however, as I pull double-duty as a designer and developer, it makes sense to use Dreamweaver since it is so good at the design side, as well as supporting CF syntax (and a host of others, as already mentioned). > > So for a developer, Eclipse is probably best, but if you dip into both design and dev, Dreamweaver is a great product. > -- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

blindered - "considering only a narrow point of view". You know those things horses wear on a track so they can only look straight ahead? Greg ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

That was supposed to be *blinkered* - "considering only a narrow point of view". I do agree there is alot of pressure from the uber-CFers to use Eclipse and I FINALLY caved in about 9 months ago after a few failed half-day attempts. I think the thing that put me over the edge was the Mylyn task-context stuff (it's great for multi-tasking). I had a real problem with the project-based approach being forced on you in CFE but I got over it. I am learning more about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot. Greg ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

>>I am learning more about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot. I am looking at the specks on the CS4 beta and it looks *tight*. I agree with Mark Drew. You should have many tools in your utility belt and know the strengths and weakness's of each. I really like CS3 *A lot* but I am stuck with DW MX (6) at work and I am not particularly fond of it. CS3 was a giant leap forward. I have a buddy that is a *gifted* UI developer (a cross browser CSS/XHTML/XML guru) and he swears by DW and MS Expression. I have done quite a bit of design and when I am doing GUI centric work DW is my tool of choice hands down. my $0.02 G ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...though as Ray pointed out...there was no SVN integration, which sucked. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:46 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*>>I am learning more /*about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot. /* /*I am looking at the specks on the CS4 beta and it looks *tight*. /* /*I agree with Mark Drew. You should have many tools in your utility belt /*and /*know the strengths and weakness's of each. I really like CS3 *A lot* but I /*am stuck with DW MX (6) at work and I am not particularly fond of it. CS3 /*was a giant leap forward. /* /*I have a buddy that is a *gifted* UI developer (a cross browser /*CSS/XHTML/XML guru) and he swears by DW and MS Expression. I have done /*quite /*a bit of design and when I am doing GUI centric work DW is my tool of /*choice /*hands down. /* /*my $0.02 /* /*G /* /* /* /*> That was supposed to be *blinkered* - "considering only a narrow point /*of /*> view". /*> /*> I do agree there is alot of pressure from the uber-CFers to use Eclipse /*and /*> I FINALLY caved in about 9 months ago after a few failed half-day /*attempts. /*> I think the thing that put me over the edge was the Mylyn task-context /*> stuff /*> (it's great for multi-tasking). I had a real problem with the project- /*based /*> approach being forced on you in CFE but I got over it. I am learning /*more /*> about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot. /*> /*> Greg /*> /*> /*> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Greg Luce <greg@luceconsulting.net> /*> wrote: /*> /*> > blindered - "considering only a narrow point of view". You know those /*> > things horses wear on a track so they can only look straight ahead? /*> > /*> > Greg /*> >   On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rick Faircloth < /*> > Rick@whitestonemedia.com> wrote: /*> > /*> >> Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"... /*> >> What is "blinkered"? /*> >> /*> >> /*> >> > -----Original Message----- /* /*> >> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:57 AM /*> >> > To: CF-Talk /*> >> > Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /*> >> > /*> >> > I have used Dreamweaver a lot. And I have looked at the code view /*and /*> >> > used it (not just tried it, Its the fourth tool in my armoury of /*> >> > editors) so I am not belittling the tool at all. /*> >> > /*> >> > And no, I am not blinkered, I am NOT saying that if you have /*> >> > Dreamweaver you will not get the job, it depends on a lot of other /*> >> > things that are on the CV. /*> >> > /*> >> > I think I am very good at spotting good talent and dont really care /*> >> > what you code in. But from EXPERIENCE of reading these CV's and /*> >> > interviewing people that is what I have found. /*> >> > /*> >> > Now, there are many exceptions to the rule obviously, and have /*> >> > interviewed many people who's tool of choice is  CFStudio or /*HomeSite /*> >> > and things are different. /*> >> > /*> >> > Depends on the job that people are going for of course. /*> >> > /*> >> > Also, I should point out that even our HTML ers use Aptana (an /*Eclipse /*> >> > product) as well as Dreamweaver. /*> >> > /*> >> > I prefer to have as many tools available to me, and know what their /*> >> > strengths and weaknesses are. /*> >> > /*> >> > I am NOT blinkered, and take objection to the comment /*> >> > /*> >> > MD /*> >> > /*> >> /*> >> /*> >> /*> >> /*> /*> /* /*

> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice... Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-) They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was never such a thing as DW 7. Massimo

>> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice... > > Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-) > They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was > never such a thing as DW 7. that's what made it good :D -- A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off."

>> Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-) >> They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was >> never such a thing as DW 7. > > that's what made it good :D You are right! It's a shame I never managed to get a copy :-) Massimo

I guess I assumed it was 7... eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:27 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice... /* /*Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-) /*They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was /*never such a thing as DW 7. /* /*Massimo /* /* /*

> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...though as Ray pointed out...there > was no SVN integration, which sucked. There's a public beta of DW 9 out now, with some nice enhancements. A work saving feature for me is a "related files" panel that clearly shows any includes, imported files, blah, blah associated with the file you're working on - with one click access to open and toy with them too. Grab it and let Adobe know what you think...

> Grab it and let Adobe know what you think... > Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o knowing if it will muck with your code??

> Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will > never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said > that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o > knowing if it will muck with your code?? I've never had DW change my code once I've set all the options properly. I work mostly in Fusebox 4/5. Most of the problems reported seem to be to do with complex XML. *shrugs* -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com

Yes, but if we ignore that it happens with very specific things and just hound and hound on the fact that it happens then it is more fuel to the fire against DW. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns out to be the editor messing with the file. Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from using DW. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

How do you know with 100% certainty that some other editor is not going to change the code on you in some odd ball case? I honestly think I have had Notepad, if it was not this then it was some built-in editor on this Mac, change a display character on me before, should I ban that from use and label it as some horrific program because it could not render some oddball scenario correctly and when I made changes to the file and saved it then I unknowingly just saved its mistake. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Notpad has an odd relationship to line-feeds and carriage returns -- at least in my experience... If I copy something from notepad to paste into an html textarea, then the pasted text contains all sorts of hard returns where it shouldn't. It's similarly unable to understand the carriage returns inserted into documents on Macs, so when you open those you get one big mass of text with no returns at all. I was really frustrated when I commented to Sean Corfield that a readme for something he distributed was all horqued up, only to have someone else point out to me that Wordpad would read it properly. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

> How do you know with 100% certainty that some other editor is not going to > change the code on you in some odd ball case? DW mangles my code (I've seen it do it, years ago). Eclipse, in many years of using it, has never mangled my code. So just on the balance of probability, Eclipse wins. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

Tom Chiverton said: ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- Many years ago I had A file mangled by dreamweaver and then recovered it from a backup and lost a few minutes of work and stopped using that version of Dreamweaver. A couple years ago, about the time that the cfeclipse project was started, there was an alternative Eclipse-based CF-ide project created by someone else. For a brief period they seemed to be in faily stiff competition. This was at the time before many people had adopted it. And at the time I decided to try out the other one (not CFE, but still eclipse-based - don't remember the name offhand). During installation, it asked where your working file set was located. I told it where to find my working files and viola! It torched not just A file, but rather EVERY file in my project (which had to be recovered from backup). Today, after several years of using more recent versions of Dreamweaver (and 6 months of a newer version of Eclipse), I've not seen a single file damaged. So for myself, just on the balance of probability, Dreamweaver wins. That's the problem with availability heuristics. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

Not really.  In the 4 or 5 years (or however many it is) That DW because MM's IDE of choice for CF, I never had a problem that didn't involve the WYSIWYG interface. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:19 PM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: Best CF editor? /* /*Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with /*your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours /*wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns /*out to be the editor messing with the file. /* /*Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from using /*DW. /* /*On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Kay Smoljak <kay.smoljak@gmail.com> /*wrote: /*> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Raymond Camden <rcamden@gmail.com> /*wrote: /*>> Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will /*>> never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said /*>> that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o /*>> knowing if it will muck with your code?? /*> /*> I've never had DW change my code once I've set all the options properly. /*> I work mostly in Fusebox 4/5. Most of the problems reported seem to be /*> to do with complex XML. /*> *shrugs* /*> /* /*

> Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with > your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours > wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns > out to be the editor messing with the file. > > Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from using DW. Well, the last time I used ColdFusion Studio it started overwriting open files with other files of the same name (i.e. all my open index.cfm from different folders files ended up with the same contents after uploading). There is no program in the world without bugs. I happen to find that the productivity boosts I get from DW outweigh the 0.00001% chance of something bad happening. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com

I think Massimo's point a msg ok makes a good point. You are right - no program is w/o bugs. But I'd rather avoid the bugs I know about. Anyway, this is just my personal opinion now. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

So the bugs that you have been made known about, you do in fact use those specific syntaxes in XML? ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with > your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours > wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns > out to be the editor messing with the file. > > Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from > using DW. Well 2 things... First I use SVN to manage all my code changes, so in the unlikely event that Dreamweaver did corrupt a file, recovery is pretty simple. Secondly, the odds of file corruption via Dreamweaver are only very slightly greater than the odds of file corruption due to hardware failure. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

> the unlikely event that Dreamweaver did corrupt a file, recovery is > pretty simple. *When you notice*. -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

> > the unlikely event that Dreamweaver did corrupt a file, recovery is > > pretty simple. > > *When you notice*. Given what I've seen, I wouldn't put not noticing down as being particularly likely. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

My problem with it appears to have been fixed in CS3 and is not repeatable in CS4. And as I pointed out before my problem is so insanely rare to happen to us that it is damn near not worth even mentioning. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will > never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said > that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o > knowing if it will muck with your code?? The problem with the XML's entities is now fixed in CS 4. But, as I demonstrated earlier in this thread with the <img> example, DW indeed changes your code *by design*, no matter if you use the WYSIWYG tools or not. While the chances of code corruption is very marginal, especially using the most recent versions, you better be aware of the implications. ---------------------------- Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver: http://www.massimocorner.com ----------------------------

> >> because of the Eclipse gestapo. > > I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be > kidding me. Ve haff vays off making you code. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

You can get good general help on Eclipse at http://www.eclipse.org/resources/ ~Brad Hello folks: I am a newbie with CFEclilpse.  I installed it about a week ago and so far, I am loving it. :-) Like most open-source product though, there is a dizzing array of help information online, but most of them are for advanced stuff, whereas I am only looking for tips to get me started. Would anyone recommend a good online resource for CFEclipse, please? For example, how on earth can I do an Extended Search like the one you are able to do in HomeSite+, by specifying a folder to search in?

> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I > accept that other people use it because it matches their > style. Frankly, after hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ > would use it. Maybe I'm throwing the baby out with the > bathwater, but if you can't trust your editor to leave your > darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless. The vast majority of Dreamweaver users don't encounter this problem. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

> The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in > Dreamweaver is the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC Since Dreamweaver 8 at least, you can browse all components on your server (through RDS) using the Components panel in the Application panel group. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

> > The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in > > Dreamweaver is the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC > > Since Dreamweaver 8 at least, you can browse all components on your server > (through RDS) using the Components panel in the Application panel group. Thanks for the reminder, Dave. RDS seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to get a list of simple strings that already exist in a document that I have open in front of me. I'm not really looking for full introspection. But I decided to go have another look at the application panel 'cause I hadn't looked at it in a while and realized that I have RDS disabled... So I edited my web.xml and fidgeted with dreamweaver and got it working... and it still sucks... Yeah, I can click on a method and go straight to it, but... a) I have to have RDS running to do it and b) I have to wade through *hundreds* of files on my server, not just the handful of components in my current project, much less just the one file I happen to have open and in focus right now. The former might be more useful to me -- the latter would absolutely be more useful to me. At least for the time being, the RDS option just seems to me like it's not worth the hassle. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

> Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or > code hinting based of an Xml Schema? (Not DTD) > > It looks like it does, but just looking for confirmation. I don't think it does. At least, Dreamweaver 8 didn't. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

> and it still sucks... Yeah, I can click on a method and go > straight to it, but... a) I have to have RDS running to do it > and b) I have to wade through *hundreds* of files on my > server, not just the handful of components in my current > project No, you can have it only show components in your selected site. There are two little buttons, one that looks like a globe, another that looks like a house. The globe shows all components on the server, the house shows just the components on your site. And lots of things require RDS, in Dreamweaver or Eclipse for that matter. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

> No, you can have it only show components in your selected site. There are > two little buttons, one that looks like a globe, another that looks like a > house. The globe shows all components on the server, the house shows just > the components on your site. Oh thanks. ;) > And lots of things require RDS, in Dreamweaver or Eclipse for that matter. None of them things I've ever found a need for, oddly enough. -- s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch isn't it time for a change?      ph: 617.365.5732 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog

Basically, it seems my choices come down to something like this; HOMESITE PROS: sturdy and reliable CONS: not being updated ECLIPSE PROS: free, lots of good features, nice functions for CF CONS: buggy, doesn't handle large files, even critical bugs seem to take a LONG time to get fixed APTANA PROS: free, very similar to Eclipse + option not to use working sets CONS: same as for Eclipse DREAMWEAVER PROS: fast, similar to HomeSite in many ways CONS: a bit steep on price, doesn't have the many nice feature of Eclipse For the moment, it seems I might end up using Eclipse for most of my work and HomeSite for the large files (until I may eventually have time to split them up). I am not at all happy about that solution, as I would really prefer using the same editor all the time and pouring all my energy into customizing and optimizing that particular editor. If anyone from the Eclipse-gang is reading this - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix the issue with the large files, which has been reported as a bug about 2 years ago...

> and HomeSite for the large files (until I may eventually have time to split > them up). That's the thing, CFEclipse chokes on files once their size gets so big you should refactor them anyway :-) -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.   If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

After being at cf.Objective() and seeing Eclipse used and promoted by so many developers, I'm doing my best to adopt it.  Code completion and integrated FTP are the two items I miss the most.  I get frustrated with Eclipse closing my elements but not enough to have to type the closing tag every time. Yes, I'm aware that there are some behaviors that I can tweak with regard to closing and auto-insertion. Unfortunately, there is no 'work exactly like DW does' checkbox. :) It's nice to see some DWers come out of the closet!  So who's going to get the DW logo tattooed on their arm and apply for a project with Mark? :) > and HomeSite for the large files (until I may eventually have time to split > them up). That's the thing, CFEclipse chokes on files once their size gets so big you should refactor them anyway :-) -- Tom Chiverton **************************************************** This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB.  A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.  Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.

ROFL /*-----Original Message----- /* /*Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:59 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: RE: Best CF editor? <snipped> /*It's nice to see some DWers come out of the closet!  So who's going to /*get the DW logo tattooed on their arm and apply for a project with Mark? /*:)

Hi.  I'm Mike and I'm a Dreamweaver user. >It's nice to see some DWers come out of the closet!  So who's going to get the DW logo tattooed on their arm and apply for a project with Mark?

You are aware - I hope - that CFEclipse has FTP support? It's the FIle Browser. It works both with local paths and FTP paths. One benefit it has over RDS is: a) Most folks disable RDS on production b) I love that w/ FTP, I can specify a folder to jump to immediately. With RDS I have to dig down to my files. On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Jas ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more ----- -- =========================================================================== Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : ray@camdenfamily.com Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org