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Best ColdFusion editor?
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306855
Speaking of CF Editors...
Bummer... I wanted to give Dreamweaver CS4 beta a try,
but you have to be a CS3 or GoLive owner to try the beta.
Seems like Adobe might be interested in the feedback of someone
who's never used DW before.
Oh, well...perhaps the trial will be out soon.
Rick
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306853
> So if I have a file - file.cfc for example - I could split it up easily?
>
> But would I still be able to instanciate it the same way?
Yeah, CFCs in particular would be functionaly the same.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306852
> I can see how a CFC can get large as is it supposed to be a library
> of like functions, so if you had a site that had a calendar that was
> cfc based (for instance) and you had all of you calendaring functions
> in that cfc, that could get huge. Would you really want to break up
> the functional unit into separate CFC's? Would that be any more
> efficient than having them in one big file (as long as they were all
> related of course).
Differences would be minimal with regard to how the server handles it -
on my end however, I find that it's easier to work with smaller files,
whether they're related or not. So in my case, I'd actually prefer if
I had a library of calendar functions for example, to have a folder
with several actual files, and I may choose to create a separate file
for each function or to just group the functions into several different
categories. For inclusion's sake I would probably create a "wrapper"
to load the set -- just a single file that includes all the other
functions.
Although in my case when I'm working on my own projects the
onTap framework has a library manager/loader that expects (mostly)
each file to contain just the one function and then also uses that same
file to provide documentation for itself. So when you look at the
documentation for the framework in a browser, there's a page of docs for
each function library where it's actually including each file in the
library to show its docs. Helps to keep things tidy, although of course
there are always a few bugs in the docs.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Larry Lyons
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306829
>So if I have a file - file.cfc for example - I could split it up easily?
>
>But would I still be able to instanciate it the same way?
>
>
Yes, just make sure you're not using a cfinclude within a function. That exposes
all protected local vars. Rather include the entire function as in
<!--- componentExample.cfc --->
<cfcomponent output = "false" etc>
<cfinclude template= "/pathToFunctions/function1.cfm">
<cfinclude template= "/pathToFunctions/function2.cfm">
etc.
</cfcomponent>
then you can instantiate it as usual
<cfset compExample = CreateObject("component", componentExample) />
hth,
larry
Author: Larry Lyons
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306826
>So if I have a file - file.cfc for example - I could split it up easily?
>
>But would I still be able to instanciate it the same way?
>
>
Yes `0
Author: Brian Kotek
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306823
If the file is so large that the IDE can't load it, that means we're talking
about thousands or tens of thousands of lines of code. It really needs to be
split up into smaller components that do more specific things, because what
this really becomes is an example of an anti-pattern known as a God Object (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_object). Maintenance is almost guaranteed
to become more difficult as time goes on.
> So if I have a file - file.cfc for example - I could split it up easily?
>
> But would I still be able to instanciate it the same way?
>
>
>
>
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306816
I can see how a CFC can get large as is it supposed to be a library of like
functions, so if you had a site that had a calendar that was cfc based (for
instance) and you had all of you calendaring functions in that cfc, that
could get huge. Would you really want to break up the functional unit into
separate CFC's? Would that be any more efficient than having them in one
big file (as long as they were all related of course).
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:42 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*So if I have a file - file.cfc for example - I could split it up easily?
/*
/*But would I still be able to instanciate it the same way?
/*
/*
/*>> I am sure you know as well as I, that sometimes refactoring is just
not
/*an option...
/*>
/*>That's true, although with either CFCs or includes there are easy ways
/*>to divide the file up into multiple without actually refactoring them
/*>and take just a few minutes.
/*>
/*><cfif b>...1000 lines of code<cfelse>...1000 lines of
code</cfif>
/*>
/*>becomes
/*>
/*><cfif b><cfinclude template="1000lines.cfm">
/*><cfelse><cfinclude template="1000lines2.cfm"></cfif>
/*>
/*>Or in a CFC
/*>
/*><cfcomponent extends="thing">
/*>... 2000 lines ...
/*></cfcomponent>
/*>
/*>becomes
/*>
/*><cfcomponent extends="thing">
/*>...1000 lines ...
/*></cfcomponent>
/*>
/*><cfcomponent extends="1000lines">
/*>...another 1000 lines...
/*></cfcomponent>
/*>
/*>Inelegant though it may be, it's not very time consuming.
/*>
/*>--
/*>s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
/*> isn't it time for a change?
/*> ph: 617.365.5732
/*>
/*>http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
/*
/*
Author: Michael Christensen
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306799
So if I have a file - file.cfc for example - I could split it up easily?
But would I still be able to instanciate it the same way?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306675
> > the unlikely event that Dreamweaver did corrupt a file, recovery is
> > pretty simple.
>
> *When you notice*.
Given what I've seen, I wouldn't put not noticing down as being
particularly likely.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306674
Tom Chiverton said:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Many years ago I had A file mangled by dreamweaver and then recovered it
from a backup and lost a few minutes of work and stopped using that
version of Dreamweaver.
A couple years ago, about the time that the cfeclipse project was
started, there was an alternative Eclipse-based CF-ide project created
by someone else. For a brief period they seemed to be in faily stiff
competition. This was at the time before many people had adopted it. And
at the time I decided to try out the other one (not CFE, but still
eclipse-based - don't remember the name offhand). During installation,
it asked where your working file set was located. I told it where to
find my working files and viola! It torched not just A file, but rather
EVERY file in my project (which had to be recovered from backup).
Today, after several years of using more recent versions of Dreamweaver
(and 6 months of a newer version of Eclipse), I've not seen a single
file damaged.
So for myself, just on the balance of probability, Dreamweaver wins.
That's the problem with availability heuristics.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306673
> I am sure you know as well as I, that sometimes refactoring is just not an
option...
That's true, although with either CFCs or includes there are easy ways
to divide the file up into multiple without actually refactoring them
and take just a few minutes.
<cfif b>...1000 lines of code<cfelse>...1000 lines of
code</cfif>
becomes
<cfif b><cfinclude template="1000lines.cfm">
<cfelse><cfinclude template="1000lines2.cfm"></cfif>
Or in a CFC
<cfcomponent extends="thing">
... 2000 lines ...
</cfcomponent>
becomes
<cfcomponent extends="thing">
...1000 lines ...
</cfcomponent>
<cfcomponent extends="1000lines">
...another 1000 lines...
</cfcomponent>
Inelegant though it may be, it's not very time consuming.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306577
Oh it may be. I'm just saying you can also do it with CFE.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Jas
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Jason Durham
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306575
I thought FTP support was provided via the Aptana plugin. I've also
been busy learning Coldbox, Transfer and Coldspring so I haven't had
much time to explore (cf)Eclipse. :)
You are aware - I hope - that CFEclipse has FTP support? It's the FIle
Browser. It works both with local paths and FTP paths. One benefit it
has over RDS is:
a) Most folks disable RDS on production
b) I love that w/ FTP, I can specify a folder to jump to immediately.
With RDS I have to dig down to my files.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Jas
> After being at cf.Objective() and seeing Eclipse used and promoted by
so
> many developers, I'm doing my best to adopt it. Code completion and
> integrated FTP are the two items I miss the most. I get frustrated
with
> Eclipse closing my elements but not enough to have to type the closing
> tag every time. Yes, I'm aware that there are some behaviors that I
can
> tweak with regard to closing and auto-insertion. Unfortunately, there
is
> no 'work exactly like DW does' checkbox. :)
>
--
========================================================================
===
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306566
You are aware - I hope - that CFEclipse has FTP support? It's the FIle
Browser. It works both with local paths and FTP paths. One benefit it
has over RDS is:
a) Most folks disable RDS on production
b) I love that w/ FTP, I can specify a folder to jump to immediately.
With RDS I have to dig down to my files.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Jas
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306565
Hi. I'm Mike and I'm a Dreamweaver user.
>It's nice to see some DWers come out of the closet! So who's going to
get the DW logo tattooed on their arm and apply for a project with Mark?
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306564
ROFL
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:59 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: RE: Best CF editor?
<snipped>
/*It's nice to see some DWers come out of the closet! So who's going to
/*get the DW logo tattooed on their arm and apply for a project with Mark?
/*:)
Author: Michael Christensen
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306561
I am sure you know as well as I, that sometimes refactoring is just not an
option...
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jason Durham
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306558
After being at cf.Objective() and seeing Eclipse used and promoted by so
many developers, I'm doing my best to adopt it. Code completion and
integrated FTP are the two items I miss the most. I get frustrated with
Eclipse closing my elements but not enough to have to type the closing
tag every time. Yes, I'm aware that there are some behaviors that I can
tweak with regard to closing and auto-insertion. Unfortunately, there is
no 'work exactly like DW does' checkbox. :)
It's nice to see some DWers come out of the closet! So who's going to
get the DW logo tattooed on their arm and apply for a project with Mark?
:)
> and HomeSite for the large files (until I may eventually have time to
split
> them up).
That's the thing, CFEclipse chokes on files once their size gets so big
you
should refactor them anyway :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306554
> and HomeSite for the large files (until I may eventually have time to split
> them up).
That's the thing, CFEclipse chokes on files once their size gets so big you
should refactor them anyway :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales
under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells
LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in
relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The
Solicitors Regulation Authority.
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306553
> the unlikely event that Dreamweaver did corrupt a file, recovery is
> pretty simple.
*When you notice*.
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales
under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells
LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in
relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The
Solicitors Regulation Authority.
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This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306552
> How do you know with 100% certainty that some other editor is not going to
> change the code on you in some odd ball case?
DW mangles my code (I've seen it do it, years ago).
Eclipse, in many years of using it, has never mangled my code.
So just on the balance of probability, Eclipse wins.
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales
under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells
LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306551
> But work set? Have not done that. I am going to look it up in the online
> references you have so graciously provided.
I'd skip learning it, and jump straight to the (free) Mylyn plugin, which
automatically filters the file navigator based on what files you actually
worked with.
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
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under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells
LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306550
> I looked earlier and believe I have 3.3.2
Workspace-wide search is in the 3.3 series too. Probably 3.2 if I remember my
home machine right...
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
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Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306547
> It's similarly unable to understand the carriage returns
> inserted into documents on Macs, so when you open those you
> get one big mass of text with no returns at all.
To be accurate, it understands those carriage returns just fine. What it
doesn't understand is that, on a Mac, a carriage return is used alone to
represent a new line. On Windows, the sequence of a carriage return and a
line feed are needed to represent a new line.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306544
So the bugs that you have been made known about, you do in fact use those
specific syntaxes in XML?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306538
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Notpad has an odd relationship to line-feeds and carriage returns -- at
least in my experience... If I copy something from notepad to paste into
an html textarea, then the pasted text contains all sorts of hard
returns where it shouldn't. It's similarly unable to understand the
carriage returns inserted into documents on Macs, so when you open those
you get one big mass of text with no returns at all. I was really
frustrated when I commented to Sean Corfield that a readme for something
he distributed was all horqued up, only to have someone else point out
to me that Wordpad would read it properly.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306537
> Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with
> your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours
> wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns
> out to be the editor messing with the file.
>
> Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from
> using DW.
Well 2 things... First I use SVN to manage all my code changes, so in
the unlikely event that Dreamweaver did corrupt a file, recovery is
pretty simple. Secondly, the odds of file corruption via Dreamweaver are
only very slightly greater than the odds of file corruption due to
hardware failure.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306534
I think Massimo's point a msg ok makes a good point. You are right -
no program is w/o bugs. But I'd rather avoid the bugs I know about.
Anyway, this is just my personal opinion now.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306529
> Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will
> never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said
> that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o
> knowing if it will muck with your code??
The problem with the XML's entities is now fixed in CS 4.
But, as I demonstrated earlier in this thread with the <img> example, DW
indeed changes your code *by design*, no matter if you use the WYSIWYG tools
or not. While the chances of code corruption is very marginal, especially
using the most recent versions, you better be aware of the implications.
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Kay Smoljak
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306528
> Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with
> your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours
> wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns
> out to be the editor messing with the file.
>
> Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from using DW.
Well, the last time I used ColdFusion Studio it started overwriting
open files with other files of the same name (i.e. all my open
index.cfm from different folders files ended up with the same contents
after uploading). There is no program in the world without bugs. I
happen to find that the productivity boosts I get from DW outweigh the
0.00001% chance of something bad happening.
--
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: enterthegoatlady.com |
heapsbad.com
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306527
Not really. In the 4 or 5 years (or however many it is) That DW because
MM's IDE of choice for CF, I never had a problem that didn't involve the
WYSIWYG interface.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:19 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with
/*your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours
/*wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns
/*out to be the editor messing with the file.
/*
/*Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from using
/*DW.
/*
/*On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Kay Smoljak <kay.smoljak@gmail.com>
/*wrote:
/*> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Raymond Camden <rcamden@gmail.com>
/*wrote:
/*>> Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will
/*>> never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said
/*>> that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o
/*>> knowing if it will muck with your code??
/*>
/*> I've never had DW change my code once I've set all the options properly.
/*> I work mostly in Fusebox 4/5. Most of the problems reported seem to be
/*> to do with complex XML.
/*> *shrugs*
/*>
/*
/*
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306526
How do you know with 100% certainty that some other editor is not going to
change the code on you in some odd ball case? I honestly think I have had
Notepad, if it was not this then it was some built-in editor on this Mac,
change a display character on me before, should I ban that from use and
label it as some horrific program because it could not render some oddball
scenario correctly and when I made changes to the file and saved it then I
unknowingly just saved its mistake.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306525
Ok, but if you KNOW that there is a 0.01% chance of DW messing with
your code, that wouldn't worry you? I can just imagine the hours
wasted trying to figure out why somehting isn't working and it turns
out to be the editor messing with the file.
Sorry - even if it is 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10000, I'd refrain from using DW.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306524
Yes, but if we ignore that it happens with very specific things and just
hound and hound on the fact that it happens then it is more fuel to the fire
against DW.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306523
My problem with it appears to have been fixed in CS3 and is not repeatable
in CS4. And as I pointed out before my problem is so insanely rare to happen
to us that it is damn near not worth even mentioning.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Kay Smoljak
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306522
> Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will
> never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said
> that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o
> knowing if it will muck with your code??
I've never had DW change my code once I've set all the options properly.
I work mostly in Fusebox 4/5. Most of the problems reported seem to be
to do with complex XML.
*shrugs*
--
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306521
> Grab it and let Adobe know what you think...
>
Unless someone tells me the code view doesn't change code - I will
never run DW. Period. I believe someone earlier in the thread said
that it was indeed fixed, but who would want to use an editor w/o
knowing if it will muck with your code??
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306520
Yeah...and that was a major improvement. The separate windows kept me from
using DW prior to that.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:52 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Eric Roberts
/*<owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
/*> The separate windows thing really bugged me...but then again I really
/*> dislike Macs too. It's one of the things I hate about gimp too, but
/*> unfortunately I am forced to use that.
/*
/*DW has had a docked, full MDI since the MX2004 release. It hasn't been
/*floating windows since version 4.
/*
/*--
/*Kay Smoljak
/*business: www.cleverstarfish.com
/*coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
/*personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com
/*
/*
Author: Kay Smoljak
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306519
> The separate windows thing really bugged me...but then again I really
> dislike Macs too. It's one of the things I hate about gimp too, but
> unfortunately I am forced to use that.
DW has had a docked, full MDI since the MX2004 release. It hasn't been
floating windows since version 4.
--
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306512
The separate windows thing really bugged me...but then again I really
dislike Macs too. It's one of the things I hate about gimp too, but
unfortunately I am forced to use that.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:19 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view.
/*It
/*> also had the horrible Mac disembodied windows. We also were not happy
/*with
/*> the first version of it after MM dropped CfStudio. It has improved
/*greatly
/*> along the road to 8. I still wish they would make a version of it
/*without
/*> the wysiwyg part. That would be awesome.
/*>
/*> Eric
/*
/*Yeah, I know I wasn't happy with DW at the time they dropped CFS. These
/*days it's the most productive way for me to work, in spite of still
/*being imperfect in several ways like the wysiwyg popping open on me.
/*(Which
/*I may have just fixed thanks to somebody here making me doulbe-check my
/*prefs - doh!)
/*
/*Personally I'm agnostic about the separate windows thing... I wasn't
/*enthused about the fact that GIMP had them, but it wasn't a turn off for
/*me either. What bugs me about GIMP is that the rest of its interface is
/*really unintuitive and challenging to learn. Someone the other day
/*mentioned to me the notion of a keyboard shortcut for "send to back" in
/*Unix versions instead of the Windows alt+tab "bring to front" as being a
/*better way of handling windowed interfaces and making the separate
/*windows a lot more sensible. I'd actually like to see that implemented
/*on Windows -- at least on hearing it, I thought it did sound like a good
/*design. But it's nowhere near compelling enough for me to start looking
/*for a Unix version I can install on one of my machines.
/*
/*--
/*s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
/* isn't it time for a change?
/* ph: 617.365.5732
/*
/*http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
/*
/*
/*
/*
Author: Michael Christensen
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306509
Basically, it seems my choices come down to something like this;
HOMESITE
PROS: sturdy and reliable
CONS: not being updated
ECLIPSE
PROS: free, lots of good features, nice functions for CF
CONS: buggy, doesn't handle large files, even critical bugs seem to take a LONG
time to get fixed
APTANA
PROS: free, very similar to Eclipse + option not to use working sets
CONS: same as for Eclipse
DREAMWEAVER
PROS: fast, similar to HomeSite in many ways
CONS: a bit steep on price, doesn't have the many nice feature of Eclipse
For the moment, it seems I might end up using Eclipse for most of my work and
HomeSite for the large files (until I may eventually have time to split them up).
I am not at all happy about that solution, as I would really prefer using the
same editor all the time and pouring all my energy into customizing and
optimizing that particular editor.
If anyone from the Eclipse-gang is reading this - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix the
issue with the large files, which has been reported as a bug about 2 years ago...
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306508
Yeah, but until 5, I really wouldn't call it code view...
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:30 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view.
/*
/*DW has a code view since release 1, back in 1997. It was vastly improved
/*in
/*DW 4, since 2000, before the Allaire aquisition.
/*
/*Massimo
/*
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306507
I guess I assumed it was 7...
eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:27 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...
/*
/*Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-)
/*They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was
/*never such a thing as DW 7.
/*
/*Massimo
/*
/*
/*
Author: Les Mizzell
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306506
> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...though as Ray pointed out...there
> was no SVN integration, which sucked.
There's a public beta of DW 9 out now, with some nice enhancements. A
work saving feature for me is a "related files" panel that clearly shows
any includes, imported files, blah, blah associated with the file you're
working on - with one click access to open and toy with them too.
Grab it and let Adobe know what you think...
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306505
> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view. It
> also had the horrible Mac disembodied windows. We also were not happy with
> the first version of it after MM dropped CfStudio. It has improved greatly
> along the road to 8. I still wish they would make a version of it without
> the wysiwyg part. That would be awesome.
>
> Eric
Yeah, I know I wasn't happy with DW at the time they dropped CFS. These
days it's the most productive way for me to work, in spite of still
being imperfect in several ways like the wysiwyg popping open on me. (Which
I may have just fixed thanks to somebody here making me doulbe-check my
prefs - doh!)
Personally I'm agnostic about the separate windows thing... I wasn't
enthused about the fact that GIMP had them, but it wasn't a turn off for
me either. What bugs me about GIMP is that the rest of its interface is
really unintuitive and challenging to learn. Someone the other day
mentioned to me the notion of a keyboard shortcut for "send to back" in
Unix versions instead of the Windows alt+tab "bring to front" as being a
better way of handling windowed interfaces and making the separate
windows a lot more sensible. I'd actually like to see that implemented
on Windows -- at least on hearing it, I thought it did sound like a good
design. But it's nowhere near compelling enough for me to start looking
for a Unix version I can install on one of my machines.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306502
> > The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in Dreamweaver
is
> > the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC
>
> Available since 3 years on my website :-)
> http://www.massimocorner.com/dreamweaver/coldfusion/cf_function_nav.mxp
Thanks Massimo! Exactly what I was looking for. :)
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306496
It starts off as two double quotes next to one another, DW changes it to one
single double quote.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Eric Roberts <
owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306491
>> Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-)
>> They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There
was
>> never such a thing as DW 7.
>
> that's what made it good :D
You are right!
It's a shame I never managed to get a copy :-)
Massimo
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306490
>> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...
>
> Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-)
> They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was
> never such a thing as DW 7.
that's what made it good :D
--
A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's
wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I
thought you looked a bit off."
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306489
>> Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or code
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Just checked. It does both. And you get code hints even without importing
the schema. DW parses it on the fly.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306488
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
I can't reproduce this on a very basic XML file, either in DW CS 3 or CS 4
beta.
I imagine the file could be a bitter more complicated than that, so the
problem could be more elusive.
Would you mind send me a copy of a file that triggers the problem? Please
feel free to contact me directly.
Thanks
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306487
> That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view.
DW has a code view since release 1, back in 1997. It was vastly improved in
DW 4, since 2000, before the Allaire aquisition.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306485
> Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or code
> hinting based of an Xml Schema? (Not DTD)
>
> It looks like it does, but just looking for confirmation.
I am almost sure it does schema validation too.
As for code hinting, importing either an .xsd or a .dtd is a piece of cake.
DW automatically generates the .vtm files out of the schema/dtd and add them
to its tag library. That's a very nifty, little-know feature. That's what I
use to generate the vtm I package as DW extensions for
Transfer/Fusebox/MG/Mach-II.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306486
> DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...
Ehmm... DW 7 actually never was :-)
They skipped that release number in order to align it to Flash. There was
never such a thing as DW 7.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306481
> FWIW, I have been using DW since MX on a daily basis as a code editor,
> and I've never had the code corruption problems that Massimo mentions.
> Perhaps I work with different types of files?
It's not that code corruptions happens on a weekly basis, especially since
DW MX, but it still can happens. For me it's once a year or the like. It's
just that you better be aware of the nature of the beast.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306482
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
I am sorry to say that's doesn't cut. DW still pretends to "fix" things even
with that setting (I've turned it off 10 years ago) and translators kick in
anyway.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306483
> The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in Dreamweaver is
> the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC
Available since 3 years on my website :-)
http://www.massimocorner.com/dreamweaver/coldfusion/cf_function_nav.mxp
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306484
> It's not the editor...it is the wysiwyg part that changes code. If you
> don't use it, it will never effect you.
Once again, sorry to be rude, but that's an urban legend. And I've proved
many times in the past.
Not only with XML files, try the <img> example I explained early in this
thread. It demonstrates that DW changes your code, even if you never use the
wysiwyg. In that cases, as most of the times, it does a good job, but it's
designed to automatically change your code.
Massimo
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306478
I don't do a lot of xml so I guess I never saw anything like that. Is that
just 1 double quote or 2 single quotes? If it is single quotes, you may
have something (might even be a default) for xml files that changes that in
accordance with some xml standard.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:16 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*Massimo(sp?) gave an example that I believe others were able to repeat
/*where
/*DW rewrites and XML file. I have seen DW do this for one of ours, here is
/*what the files have prior to opening them:
/*
/*<StyleSearch>""</StyleSearch>
/*
/*When opened up in DW the display shows this instead:
/*
/*<StyleSearch>"</StyleSearch>
/*
/*If you make some change in the file then save it, you unknowingly have
/*saved
/*it with that change but you quickly find out because I frame work throws
/*an
/*error on that. I just tested it in DW 8 and it happened as I explained.
/*
/*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Eric Roberts <
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306477
That was back when DW was a design tool and didn't have the code view. It
also had the horrible Mac disembodied windows. We also were not happy with
the first version of it after MM dropped CfStudio. It has improved greatly
along the road to 8. I still wish they would make a version of it without
the wysiwyg part. That would be awesome.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:09 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*> I was wondering the same thing because the post implied that to me
/*> but I figured I was reading it wrong. I do not think IDE selection is
/*> a sign of skill one way or the other. I do however think that people
/*> get a little too pushy about what IDE to use or not use and that
/*> feeling of mine dates back before I ever heard of Eclipse.
/*
/*Back before Macromedia, if I remember correctly, there was a fair amount
/*of disdain for both Homesite and Dreamweaver users amongst those of us who
/*used ColdFusion Studio (at times myself included I must admit). I get
/*the same sort of vibe from a lot of Eclipse advocates.
/*
/*--
/*s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
/* isn't it time for a change?
/* ph: 617.365.5732
/*
/*http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
/*
/*
/*
/*
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306474
Massimo(sp?) gave an example that I believe others were able to repeat where
DW rewrites and XML file. I have seen DW do this for one of ours, here is
what the files have prior to opening them:
<StyleSearch>""</StyleSearch>
When opened up in DW the display shows this instead:
<StyleSearch>"</StyleSearch>
If you make some change in the file then save it, you unknowingly have saved
it with that change but you quickly find out because I frame work throws an
error on that. I just tested it in DW 8 and it happened as I explained.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Eric Roberts <
owner@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306473
> I was wondering the same thing because the post implied that to me
> but I figured I was reading it wrong. I do not think IDE selection is
> a sign of skill one way or the other. I do however think that people
> get a little too pushy about what IDE to use or not use and that
> feeling of mine dates back before I ever heard of Eclipse.
Back before Macromedia, if I remember correctly, there was a fair amount
of disdain for both Homesite and Dreamweaver users amongst those of us who
used ColdFusion Studio (at times myself included I must admit). I get
the same sort of vibe from a lot of Eclipse advocates.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306471
> > CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they
> > can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers
>
> I assume this is why most places set a practical programing test as part of
> the interview.
Funny... I remember the days when Access was much more common than it is
now and there was that distinction between people who'd used Access
databases and people who'd used SQL Server... except that in my
experience, the folks who had SQL Server experience were quite often not
any more knowledgeable about databases or even for that matter about SQL.
Many of the guys I worked directly with did all their SQL work in the
visual editors in Enterprise Manager (which creates horrid, horrid
bleeding-eyes syntax and is essentially a "grown up" version of the
Access IDE).
A handful of them even verbally marvelled that when they asked me to
help them with a database task, the first thing I would do is open Query
Analyzer and go straight to hand-coding the SQL saying things like "I
don't know how you do that".
I was the other way around -- I had a hard time imagining how they got
any work done in Enterprise Manager. To me a language is a language, and
that's the first thing you learn -- editors come later once you've
mastered the syntax. Fortunately I've never had a practical skill test
where anyone asked me specifically to work with a visual query builder
or a wysiwyg editor. Not that I couldn't figure it out, but it's not the
easiest way for me to work.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306470
It's not the editor...it is the wysiwyg part that changes code. If you
don't use it, it will never effect you.
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:22 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that
/*other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after
/*hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm
/*throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your
/*editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
/*
/*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Massimo Foti
/*<massimo@massimocorner.com> wrote:
/*>> Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems
/*>> like
/*>> it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers.
/*>
/*> I don't think it would be that easy to implement such a feature in DW,
/*but I
/*> am just guessing.
/*> Anyway, programmers aren't DW's main target market.
/*>
/*
/*--
/*==========================================================================
/*=
/*Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
/*
/*Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
/*Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
/*AOL IM : cfjedimaster
/*
/*Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306469
I only ever used design view if I was having a stubborn table that just
would not cooperate. I can probably count the number of times I used that
on one hand. Other than that, it was all code view.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:01 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*She did not use the design view and I never have used the design view, she
/*had in her head that it just would change code out of the blue and
/*probably
/*from reading things online. In the 4 years I have used DW, it has never
/*behind my back changed any code accept for one odd ball instance when
/*editing an XML file with a very specific element name. But of course in
/*the
/*4 years I have used it, I can not think of one single time I looked at the
/*design view, it is just an option the software has that I never once have
/*used.
/*
/*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Tom Chiverton
/*<tom.chiverton@halliwells.com>
/*wrote:
/*
/*>
/*> > and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she
/*needed
/*> an
/*> > old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up
code.
/*>
/*> Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in
/*> this
/*> very thread.
/*> (CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back.
/*>
/*> --
/*> Tom Chiverton
/*>
/*> ****************************************************
/*>
/*> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
/*>
/*> Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England
/*and
/*> Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address
/*is at
/*> Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A
/*> list of members is available for inspection at the registered office.
/*Any
/*> reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of
/*> Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority.
/*>
/*> CONFIDENTIALITY
/*>
/*> This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and
/*> may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee
/*you
/*> must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy
/*it
/*> nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
/*> existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please
/*> delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500.
/*>
/*> For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
/*>
/*>
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306468
Cancel that...design view...NM :-D
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 9:10 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*
/*> and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed
/*an
/*> old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code.
/*
/*Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in
/*this
/*very thread.
/*(CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back.
/*
/*--
/*Tom Chiverton
/*
/*****************************************************
/*
/*This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
/*
/*Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England
/*and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address
/*is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3
/*3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered
/*office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a
/*member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation
/*Authority.
/*
/*CONFIDENTIALITY
/*
/*This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and
/*may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee
/*you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor
/*copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee
/*of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error
/*please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500.
/*
/*For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306467
How does DW CV mess with your CFML? I don't remember ever experiencing
that. I do vaguely remembering an old version of CFStudio doing that at
some point...V4/4.5 maybe?
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 9:10 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*
/*> and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed
/*an
/*> old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code.
/*
/*Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in
/*this
/*very thread.
/*(CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back.
/*
/*--
/*Tom Chiverton
/*
/*****************************************************
/*
/*This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
/*
/*Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England
/*and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address
/*is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3
/*3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered
/*office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a
/*member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation
/*Authority.
/*
/*CONFIDENTIALITY
/*
/*This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and
/*may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee
/*you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor
/*copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee
/*of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error
/*please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500.
/*
/*For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306466
DW7 was better and DW8 was really nice...though as Ray pointed out...there
was no SVN integration, which sucked.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:46 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*>>I am learning more
/*about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot.
/*
/*I am looking at the specks on the CS4 beta and it looks *tight*.
/*
/*I agree with Mark Drew. You should have many tools in your utility belt
/*and
/*know the strengths and weakness's of each. I really like CS3 *A lot* but I
/*am stuck with DW MX (6) at work and I am not particularly fond of it. CS3
/*was a giant leap forward.
/*
/*I have a buddy that is a *gifted* UI developer (a cross browser
/*CSS/XHTML/XML guru) and he swears by DW and MS Expression. I have done
/*quite
/*a bit of design and when I am doing GUI centric work DW is my tool of
/*choice
/*hands down.
/*
/*my $0.02
/*
/*G
/*
/*
/*
/*> That was supposed to be *blinkered* - "considering only a narrow point
/*of
/*> view".
/*>
/*> I do agree there is alot of pressure from the uber-CFers to use Eclipse
/*and
/*> I FINALLY caved in about 9 months ago after a few failed half-day
/*attempts.
/*> I think the thing that put me over the edge was the Mylyn task-context
/*> stuff
/*> (it's great for multi-tasking). I had a real problem with the project-
/*based
/*> approach being forced on you in CFE but I got over it. I am learning
/*more
/*> about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot.
/*>
/*> Greg
/*>
/*>
/*> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Greg Luce <greg@luceconsulting.net>
/*> wrote:
/*>
/*> > blindered - "considering only a narrow point of view". You know those
/*> > things horses wear on a track so they can only look straight ahead?
/*> >
/*> > Greg
/*> > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rick Faircloth <
/*> > Rick@whitestonemedia.com> wrote:
/*> >
/*> >> Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"...
/*> >> What is "blinkered"?
/*> >>
/*> >>
/*> >> > -----Original Message-----
/*
/*> >> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:57 AM
/*> >> > To: CF-Talk
/*> >> > Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*> >> >
/*> >> > I have used Dreamweaver a lot. And I have looked at the code
view
/*and
/*> >> > used it (not just tried it, Its the fourth tool in my
armoury of
/*> >> > editors) so I am not belittling the tool at all.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > And no, I am not blinkered, I am NOT saying that if you have
/*> >> > Dreamweaver you will not get the job, it depends on a lot of
other
/*> >> > things that are on the CV.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > I think I am very good at spotting good talent and dont
really care
/*> >> > what you code in. But from EXPERIENCE of reading these CV's
and
/*> >> > interviewing people that is what I have found.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > Now, there are many exceptions to the rule obviously, and
have
/*> >> > interviewed many people who's tool of choice is CFStudio or
/*HomeSite
/*> >> > and things are different.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > Depends on the job that people are going for of course.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > Also, I should point out that even our HTML ers use Aptana
(an
/*Eclipse
/*> >> > product) as well as Dreamweaver.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > I prefer to have as many tools available to me, and know
what their
/*> >> > strengths and weaknesses are.
/*> >> >
/*> >> > I am NOT blinkered, and take objection to the comment
/*> >> >
/*> >> > MD
/*> >> >
/*> >>
/*> >>
/*> >>
/*> >>
/*>
/*>
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306465
I didn't like the fact that it wasn't integrated, though there was a plugin
you could buy that did it. I can't vouch for how well it worked (or not) as
I never used it. I just bit the bullet and used tortoise in Windows
Explorer...a bit of a pain in the butt, but more of an inconvenience than
anything else.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:34 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work
/*for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to
/*play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports
/*file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history,
/*etc.
/*
/*On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Jas
/*> http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html
/*>
/*> I was just able to download and install the extensions. It appears the
/*> new tags and functions are now supported with DW CS3.
/*>
/*> -----Original Message-----
/*
/*> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:28 AM
/*> To: CF-Talk
/*> Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*>
/*> Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a
/*> beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image
/*> functions anyway.
/*>
/*> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews
/*> <lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
/*>> Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now.
/*>>
/*>> -----Original Message-----
/*
/*>> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:11 AM
/*>> To: CF-Talk
/*>> Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*>>
/*>> I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave
/*> it a
/*>> fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help
/*>> though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet.
/*>>
/*>> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com>
wrote:
/*>>> Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage
people
/*>>> to use it for cf development I wonder?
/*>>>--
/*> ========================================================================
/*> ===
/*> Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
/*>
/*> Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
/*> Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
/*> AOL IM : cfjedimaster
/*>
/*> Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
/*>
/*>
/*>
/*>
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306464
I prefer DW as it saves me a lot of time and the site oriented layout fits
in more with how we have our servers set up. While I think eclipse is a
great idea and I think CFEclipse has a future, I don't think it is better
than DW if you put it feature to feature. I would love to see a wysiwyg
free version of DW as I never used it. I only use Eclipse now because I
have to...though I am sure I can ask my boss to get me a DW license. I too
keep trying hard to like it and well wish that it is ready for prime time,
but it does fall short.
To judge someone based on the IDE they use is VERY short sighted Mark and
the comparison is not even close.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 4:08 AM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*James
/*
/*I get a number of CF's through, people claim many things on that nice
/*bit of fiction that is called a CV.
/*
/*When I get to choosing people for interviews, people with "Eclipse",
/*Frameworks, version control etc etc will be getting through (well, not
/*all the time) but at least it gives me an idea where their head is at
/*for senior roles.
/*
/*Discrimination? NAY!
/*
/*Its like reading that they have used Access compared to MS SQL to me.
/*
/*MD
/*
/*On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:01 AM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com>
/*wrote:
/*> I'd want to look at code before assuming that it was built with a
/*wizard.
/*>
/*>
/*>> I vill build a IDE that will last two zounsand yearz!
/*>>
/*>> Ehem... no.. its the fact that if you made the effort to know
/*>> CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they
/*>> can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers
/*>> etc.
/*>>
/*>> Its a quick discrimination from the junk.
/*>>
/*>> Hey, I can code ASP with Dreamweaver. Would you hire me as an ASP
/*>> developer because of that?
/*>
/*> --
/*> mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
/*> http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
/*>
/*>
/*
/*
Author: Kay Smoljak
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306462
> Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems like
> it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers.
It's there: if you set DW to fix invalidly nested tags (or choose one
of the other rewriting options) you get a second option enabled which
lets you specify the types of files in which DW shouldn't ever rewrite
code - I always do this and add .cfm to the list (and .html and .php
and .xml and .log and .txt and anything else I'm likely to work with).
FWIW, I have been using DW since MX on a daily basis as a code editor,
and I've never had the code corruption problems that Massimo mentions.
Perhaps I work with different types of files?
K.
--
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306461
Eclipse Gestapo...hahaha...that's great!
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:40 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*>>I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting.
/*
/*VERY Interesting. I would venture to say that notion reflects a zeitgeist
/*of
/*the CF community as a whole. Namely the skill/Knowledge divide
/*
/*This notion has been touched on several times
/*
/*http://www.briankotek.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/4/5/The-CF-Skill-Divide
/*http://www.robgonda.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/6/1/Coldfusion-skill-divide
/*http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/290513.htm
/*
/*
/*
/*On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Aaron Rouse <aaron.rouse@gmail.com>
/*wrote:
/*
/*> I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting.
/*>
/*> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Gerald Guido
<gerald.guido@gmail.com>
/*> wrote:
/*>
/*> > >> because of the Eclipse gestapo.
/*> >
/*> > I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me.
/*> >
/*> >
/*> > --
/*> > "The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as
/*to
/*> > discover new ways of thinking about them."
/*> > - Sir William Bragg
/*> >
/*> >
/*> >
/*>
/*>
/*
/*
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306460
I prefer DW, but I don't have a copy, so I use Eclipse, which can be slow
and buggy a lot of the time. I have more times than I should where I am
coding and Eclipse does something or jumps around and I am just sitting
there wondering what the hell just happened.
Eric
/*-----Original Message-----
/*
/*Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:33 PM
/*To: CF-Talk
/*Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
/*
/*Yeah, WYSIWYG is more or less unusable for professional web design because
/*doing such on a professional level requires intimate involvement in the
/*code and has to transcend drag-n-drop of simplified components. That
/*being said, I think the WYSIWYG is good enough in Dreamweaver CS3 to more
/*or less get a good idea of what is going on rendering-side to save
/*incessant IDE-browser switching. Of course, there will still be plenty of
/*this anyway, but the Dreamweaver as an WYSIWYG can help reduce a bit of
/*it.
/*
/*>On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Phillip Vector
/*><vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
/*>> Dreamweaver is nice... But I think allot of people (myself included)
/*>> got scared away from it awhile back when the WYSIWYG editor made code
/*>> that was... just unreadable.. Kind of like Front Page *shutter*
/*>>
/*>> Has Dreamweaver improved enough to give another look at?
/*>
/*>I've been using DW since the first MX release as a code editor. I
/*>don't go into design view (I never went into it in CFStudio either). I
/*>turn off most panels and toolbars and work with just the files panel
/*>and code window (I'm a keyboard shortcut junkie). It's brilliant -
/*>extensible, customisable, powerful. Code hinting for CF, HTML, CSS and
/*>JavaScript. SVN in the new version although I used an extension for
/*>SVN support in CS3. FTP and SFTP out of the box.
/*>
/*>People used to say "it's too slow compared to HomeSite/CFStudio" but
/*>these people have now moved to Eclipse, which I find performs
/*>unacceptably slowly, even on a high spec machine with plenty of RAM.
/*>In fact, there's a real Eclipse gestapo that try to imply that you're
/*>not a real coder unless you're using it, which annoys me no end.
/*>
/*>Believe it or not, all of the front end developers I know, who work in
/*>HTML, CSS and JavaScript only, spend most of their time in code view
/*>too - WYSIWYG is not an effective development tool for creating any
/*>kind of site, imho.
/*>
/*>--
/*>Kay Smoljak
/*>business: www.cleverstarfish.com
/*>coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
/*>personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com
/*
/*
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306459
> No, you can have it only show components in your selected site. There are
> two little buttons, one that looks like a globe, another that looks like a
> house. The globe shows all components on the server, the house shows just
> the components on your site.
Oh thanks. ;)
> And lots of things require RDS, in Dreamweaver or Eclipse for that matter.
None of them things I've ever found a need for, oddly enough.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306458
> and it still sucks... Yeah, I can click on a method and go
> straight to it, but... a) I have to have RDS running to do it
> and b) I have to wade through *hundreds* of files on my
> server, not just the handful of components in my current
> project
No, you can have it only show components in your selected site. There are
two little buttons, one that looks like a globe, another that looks like a
house. The globe shows all components on the server, the house shows just
the components on your site.
And lots of things require RDS, in Dreamweaver or Eclipse for that matter.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306457
> Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or
> code hinting based of an Xml Schema? (Not DTD)
>
> It looks like it does, but just looking for confirmation.
I don't think it does. At least, Dreamweaver 8 didn't.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306456
> > The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in
> > Dreamweaver is the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC
>
> Since Dreamweaver 8 at least, you can browse all components on your server
> (through RDS) using the Components panel in the Application panel group.
Thanks for the reminder, Dave.
RDS seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to get a list of
simple strings that already exist in a document that I have open in
front of me. I'm not really looking for full introspection. But I
decided to go have another look at the application panel 'cause I hadn't
looked at it in a while and realized that I have RDS disabled...
So I edited my web.xml and fidgeted with dreamweaver and got it working...
and it still sucks... Yeah, I can click on a method and go straight to
it, but... a) I have to have RDS running to do it and b) I have to wade
through *hundreds* of files on my server, not just the handful of
components in my current project, much less just the one file I happen
to have open and in focus right now. The former might be more useful to
me -- the latter would absolutely be more useful to me. At least for the
time being, the RDS option just seems to me like it's not worth the
hassle.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Mark Mandel
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306455
Just out of curiosity, does DW does XML Schema Validation or code
hinting based of an Xml Schema? (Not DTD)
It looks like it does, but just looking for confirmation.
Mark
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:45 AM, Aar
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306454
> In the DW prefs, you can specify a list of file types that should
> only be opened in code view.
Oh strange... at first I thought to myself "yeah, I've seen that setting"
and was pretty sure the cf extensions were in there, but then I figured
since you mentioned it I may as well double check before I respond. I'd
have thought at a minimum, .cfc and .cfr would have been in that list by
default but I guess they're not... so we'll see if that resolves my
issue with design view popping open on its own. Thanks for the reminder.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Josh Nathanson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306453
> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that
> other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after
> hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your
> editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
You can set all this in the preferences:
Edit -> Preferences -> Code Rewriting
Check "Never Rewrite Code"
Then you can set which types of files to not touch with a list of file
extensions.
-- Josh
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306452
In the DW prefs, you can specify a list of file types that should only be opened
in code view.
_____
Sent: Fri 5/30/2008 6:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Best CF editor?
> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that
> other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after
> hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your
> editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
The first time I tried to use Dreamweaver, a good number of years ago
mind you (prior to the MX brand), I had the unpleasant experience of one
or two of my code templates mangled. So of course I immediately stopped
using it.
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306448
> The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in
> Dreamweaver is the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC
Since Dreamweaver 8 at least, you can browse all components on your server
(through RDS) using the Components panel in the Application panel group.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306446
> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that
> other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after
> hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your
> editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
The first time I tried to use Dreamweaver, a good number of years ago
mind you (prior to the MX brand), I had the unpleasant experience of one
or two of my code templates mangled. So of course I immediately stopped
using it.
I tried it again much later either just before or just after the release
of Dreamweaver MX and have never had that problem since then. The only
thing that bothers me consistently in Dreamweaver 8 is the fact that I
can't prevent it from continually and gratuitously opening the design
view on its own. I had asked about the ability to just disable the
design view (which, in spite of what Massimo and other say about the
impossibility of having Dreamweaver not touch the code), should be
pretty darn simple -- nothing would have to change even _except_ that
the design view button would go away (and presumably it would stop
opening on its own).
The design view actually is the feature that had mangled my code those
years ago the first time I had tried it, but given that it opens on its
own, constantly (dozens if not hundreds of times per day), and it's not
mangled any of my code in the several years since the release of MX, I'd
say it's pretty safe now.
At the office now I have a new annoyance, which is repeated alert boxes
in Dreamweaver to let me know that some inadequately explained Spry
thing isn't the way it ought to be. Generally speaking I'm not so
horribly offended by that, given that I haven't cared for really much of
any of what I've seen of Spry. (Check out my blog -- I've ranted several
times in the past month or so.)
In general I'm happy with Dreamweaver. Last year when I was working in
Portland, I was asked to work in Eclipse and I did for about 6 months,
but I never got to a point where I enjoyed it. All told I found that it
really just made my job more difficult and increased the amount of time
it took me to get things done. At the end of the day, I'd much rather
say that I got some work done, rather than that I figured out something
new (and usually frustrating) about Eclipse. I've heard that they've
improved the search feature, which was one of my bigger complaints at
the time, although I haven't gone back and looked at it since then.
The only thing I had in CFEclipse that I'd like to see in Dreamweaver is
the ability to get a list of methods in a CFC -- which is a very minor
thing for me, certainly a lot less important than the fact that the
multi-file search in Eclipse is untrustworthy (or at least was when I
was using it).
But if I were still having problems with Dreamweaver mangling my code, I
definitely wouldn't be using it every day either. I'd be "toughing it
out" with Eclipse or I'd move back to something else like Homesite+ or
maybe I'd give jEdit another try.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 617.365.5732
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306445
> Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I
> accept that other people use it because it matches their
> style. Frankly, after hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_
> would use it. Maybe I'm throwing the baby out with the
> bathwater, but if you can't trust your editor to leave your
> darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
The vast majority of Dreamweaver users don't encounter this problem.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306438
Maybe if you rant about it enough it can be fuel for the SS :) I think you
are making a bigger issue out of it than it really is. If it was such a big
issue I would think we would see people complaining about it quite often or
at least some. It sounds like the problem happens more specific to editing
XML files and perhaps the issue does not get experienced much because people
edit XML files in something else or perhaps just do not use them much or
perhaps it has to be something very specific in the files to cause the
rewrite. One of our inhouse built frameworks uses a lot of XML files and
like I mentioned before there is only one small case in all of those where
DW changes the file without prompting the person and out of all the projects
that framework is used and all the people who are involved with those, there
is just me and one other person who have experienced it and the change is
something one could overlook because the framework throws an error when it
happens.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306432
> I open a .cfm document. Type: <MixTagCase> followed by </Mix.
When I
> hit enter, to accept the selection, DW inserts </mixtagcase>
Got it! I had to first change my preferences for code hints, I had the
second radio button checked, had to check the first.
Massimo
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306430
Nope. No custom tag libraries.
I open a .cfm document. Type: <MixTagCase> followed by </Mix. When I
hit enter, to accept the selection, DW inserts </mixtagcase>
m!ke
> It is.
Weird... I can't reproduce the problem.
Do you have custom tag libraries defined for those tags?
Massimo
Author: David
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306428
Not sure about open files, but you can define persistent "working
sets", which can include a few projects, or just selected folders
within one project, then search on that.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Aar
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306427
> It is.
Weird... I can't reproduce the problem.
Do you have custom tag libraries defined for those tags?
Massimo
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306426
It is.
------
Edit > Preferences > Code Format
Be sure "override case of tags" is unchecked.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306425
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Edit > Preferences > Code Format
Be sure "override case of tags" is unchecked.
Massimo
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306422
The only time I have noticed any problems with DW "fixing" code is when
you are using XML tags within a file that does not have .xml as the
extension. (This doesn't mean this is the only way DW changes code, I'm
just saying this is the only way it has affected me.)
For example, if you are writing XMl tags within a .cfm file. DW will
want to either upper-case or lower-case the XML.
Our Cisco phones require mixed-case XML tags such as <CiscoIPPhoneText>,
<MenuItem>, <URL>, etc.
When I close the XML tags by typing "</", DW will force the XML tags to
lower-case.
I have filed a bug with Adobe regarding this issue.
Other than that, DW works great for me and I always use code view.
m!ke
Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that
other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after
hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm throwing
the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your editor to
leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306414
Well, I'm surprised. As I said, I tease DW a lot, but I accept that
other people use it because it matches their style. Frankly, after
hearing this, I can't believe _anyone_ would use it. Maybe I'm
throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but if you can't trust your
editor to leave your darn code alone, then to me it is 100% worthless.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306406
I looked earlier and believe I have 3.3.2
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Dominic Watson <
watson.dominic@googlemail.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dominic Watson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306403
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Yeh, I have the stable release of Eclipse 3.4 (Ganymede) and the
search works great.
To Qing:
Select the project/folder want to search in the navigator view and hit
CTRL-H (or there maybe a torch icon somewhere in your toolbars). In
the dialog that opens you can then select the 'scope' of the search
which should default to 'Selected resources' in this case.
Dominic
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Phillip Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306399
BAH! I'm a Notepad.exe man myself.
(To any employers out there, the above is a joke). :)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306397
> Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems
> like
> it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers.
I don't think it would be that easy to implement such a feature in DW, but I
am just guessing.
Anyway, programmers aren't DW's main target market.
Massimo
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306395
Hard to believe they don't offer a "don't touch my code" option. Seems like
it would be so simple, and so valuable to programmers.
> But are you telling me - and I want to be clear here - that there is
> NO way to fix this? That you CANNOT guarantee that DW won't change
> your code?
No, there is no way. It's the nature of the beast.
DW automatically changes code for some "reasonable" reasons. For example,
you open a new page, then add an image tag (either from code or design view)
and point DW to a file. It creates something like:
<img src="file:///C|/mydir/mypage.jpg" />
Then, as soon you save the page, DW "fixes" the path, making it relative to
the location where you saved the page.
The vast majority of times, those "fixes" work very well, on a few
occasions, they don't. Unfortunately MM first, then Adobe, never added an
option to "never touch by code", that would completely disable all these
automatic functionality. No matter how much people like me or Tom Muck
lobbied for it.
Translators have been another problematic area too, yet they are critical to
the way DW works, and they kick in both in Code or Design View.
> I mean I knew DW had issues with code in the past, but Code View was
> supposed to leave stuff alone.
"Code View is safe" it's just urban legend, I keep saying this since many,
many years (check list's archive). Seems like people don't believe me, if I
am considered a DW expert...
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying DW is crap, I am just saying you better
be aware of its shortcoming.
As I said, I use both DW and Eclipse at the very same time, as they stand,
both are quite far from being the CFML IDE I am looking for.
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306392
> What are some examples of it doing it to non-xml documents?
The CF-related examples I was aware of were all fixed in the last 3-4
releases. But I am not willing to bet there are more I am just not aware of.
I hope there is no need for me to explain I have no anti-DW bias. I would
imagine my curriculum speaks for me. I am just realistic.
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306393
> But are you telling me - and I want to be clear here - that there is
> NO way to fix this? That you CANNOT guarantee that DW won't change
> your code?
No, there is no way. It's the nature of the beast.
DW automatically changes code for some "reasonable" reasons. For example,
you open a new page, then add an image tag (either from code or design view)
and point DW to a file. It creates something like:
<img src="file:///C|/mydir/mypage.jpg" />
Then, as soon you save the page, DW "fixes" the path, making it relative to
the location where you saved the page.
The vast majority of times, those "fixes" work very well, on a few
occasions, they don't. Unfortunately MM first, then Adobe, never added an
option to "never touch by code", that would completely disable all these
automatic functionality. No matter how much people like me or Tom Muck
lobbied for it.
Translators have been another problematic area too, yet they are critical to
the way DW works, and they kick in both in Code or Design View.
> I mean I knew DW had issues with code in the past, but Code View was
> supposed to leave stuff alone.
"Code View is safe" it's just urban legend, I keep saying this since many,
many years (check list's archive). Seems like people don't believe me, if I
am considered a DW expert...
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying DW is crap, I am just saying you better
be aware of its shortcoming.
As I said, I use both DW and Eclipse at the very same time, as they stand,
both are quite far from being the CFML IDE I am looking for.
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306388
What are some examples of it doing it to non-xml documents? I actually have
been getting to the point of not opening XML documents in DW due to the one
odd-ball example where it changes things for me. My odd-ball example I
think effects just 2 or 3 files out of all of our files in any of our
projects. But that is the very reason I just do not do any XML files in DW,
because I will forget which 2 or 3 files have the issue.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306386
Wow. You know, I like to tease DW, but I know it's a decent enough
editor. It's just not my editor.
But are you telling me - and I want to be clear here - that there is
NO way to fix this? That you CANNOT guarantee that DW won't change
your code?
To me - that is unacceptable. I'd ban DW from my environment. I can't
believe an editor would even exist that would do this.
I mean I knew DW had issues with code in the past, but Code View was
supposed to leave stuff alone.
Seriously - can someone stand up for this and say that changing a
user's XML is "good"? Can anyone defend this?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306387
Eh...
It's only of the only good things ABOUT Eclipse.
:)
Eclipse help from Andy Matthews...Whodathunkit! ;) (says the guy sitting
next to him in the office...)
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _____________________________
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com
Andy Matthews wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306385
I could be wrong but I think he wants to be able to make the search just
search in a folder that is within a project but not the other folders in
that project. I am sure it can be done via the ctrl-h search screen,
although looking at it right now I do not see how it is done but probably
just lack of experience with it on my part.
How do you run a search that only searches currently opened files?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Cutter (CFRelated)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306384
Eclipse help from Andy Matthews...Whodathunkit! ;) (says the guy sitting
next to him in the office...)
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
_____________________________
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com
Andy Matthews wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306383
CTRL + H brings up the search all selected projects dialog box.
Hello folks:
I am a newbie with CFEclilpse. I installed it about a week ago and so far,
I am loving it. :-) Like most open-source product though, there is a dizzing
array of help information online, but most of them are for advanced stuff,
whereas I am only looking for tips to get me started.
Would anyone recommend a good online resource for CFEclipse, please?
For example, how on earth can I do an Extended Search like the one you are
able to do in HomeSite+, by specifying a folder to search in?
Tracy Xia
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Qing Xia
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306382
I was asked to define a "work space" the first time I started CFEclipse,,
which I have done and it is my entire code application folder (consisting of
several different CF applications).
But work set? Have not done that. I am going to look it up in the online
references you have so graciously provided.
Thanks guys! :-)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306381
>> which i suppose will raise the question of "what's a working set?" :)
Problem solved: http://www.dopefly.com/techblog/entry.cfm?entry=129
BTW Nathan Strutz has TONS of CFEclipse stuff on his site. Lots of good
resources:
http://www.dopefly.com/techblog/?bycategory=5
--
"The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to
discover new ways of thinking about them."
- Sir William Bragg
Author: Brad Wood
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306379
You can get good general help on Eclipse at
http://www.eclipse.org/resources/
~Brad
Hello folks:
I am a newbie with CFEclilpse. I installed it about a week ago and so
far,
I am loving it. :-) Like most open-source product though, there is a
dizzing
array of help information online, but most of them are for advanced
stuff,
whereas I am only looking for tips to get me started.
Would anyone recommend a good online resource for CFEclipse, please?
For example, how on earth can I do an Extended Search like the one you
are
able to do in HomeSite+, by specifying a folder to search in?
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306380
The search functionality of Eclipse has always been something I felt was
lacking. There was a thread on here a month or back where someone mentioned
it had been changed finally, not sure if that change is in the current
stable version or in one of the others. I did install Eclipse along with
CFEclipse and a few other things just a couple weeks ago and do not recall
the search page being different for me but I also can not recall if I have
searched for anything in it since I only use that setup on one of my
machines and not a whole lot.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306378
a good source of documentation is the wiki at
http://trac.cfeclipse.org/cfeclipse/
you should also subscribe to the cfeclipse-users mailing list:
http://groups.google.com/group/cfeclipse-users
extended searches can be done via CTRL-H and choosing a specific
working set within which to search. which i suppose will raise the
question of "what's a working set?" :)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306377
>> a good online resource for CFEclipse, please?
This is a good place to start:
http://www.dopefly.com/projects/cfeclipse.cfm
--
"The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to
discover new ways of thinking about them."
- Sir William Bragg
Author: Qing Xia
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306376
Hello folks:
I am a newbie with CFEclilpse. I installed it about a week ago and so far,
I am loving it. :-) Like most open-source product though, there is a dizzing
array of help information online, but most of them are for advanced stuff,
whereas I am only looking for tips to get me started.
Would anyone recommend a good online resource for CFEclipse, please?
For example, how on earth can I do an Extended Search like the one you are
able to do in HomeSite+, by specifying a folder to search in?
Tracy Xia
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306375
>>Any second now someone is going to invoke Godwin's law.
Too late. Tom Chiverton broke out his SS cap early this morning. ;)
G
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Larry Lyons
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306373
Any second now someone is going to invoke Godwin's law.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jason Durham
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306365
To save some of you the effort... I did this in CS3. After saving the
file and reopening it, I saw this...
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE galleries [
<!ENTITY galleries SYSTEM
"http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/demos/gallery/galleries/galleri
es.xml">
]>
<root>
<galleries><gallery><sitename></sitename><photographer></photographer><c
ontactinfo></contactinfo><email></email><security></security></gallery><
gallery><sitename></sitename><photographer></photographer><contactinfo><
/contactinfo><email></email><security></security></gallery><gallery><sit
ename></sitename><photographer></photographer><contactinfo></contactinfo
><email></email><security></security></gallery></galleries>
</root>
I think it's worth to let people know that avoid using DW's Design View
doesn't make you save from code corruption. Most documented cases are
caused
by "translators", unfortunately translators run before you load the
document, and they do no matter if you are in Code view or Design View.
Want to see DW's code corruption in action? Create an xml file
containing
this code, then open it in DW CS 3 or earlier (in Code View, there is no
Design View for XML):
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE galleries [
<!ENTITY galleries SYSTEM
"http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/demos/gallery/galleries/galleri
es.xml">
]>
<root>
&galleries;
</root>
As far as I know, this specific case is fixed in DW CS 4. Along the
years DW
has improved a lot on this area, but it's not 100% safe, it will never
be.
As for me, I use both DW and Ecplise, most of the time I have both of
them
opened at the same time, sometimes I open TopStyle too :-)
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306364
I think it's worth to let people know that avoid using DW's Design View
doesn't make you save from code corruption. Most documented cases are caused
by "translators", unfortunately translators run before you load the
document, and they do no matter if you are in Code view or Design View.
Want to see DW's code corruption in action? Create an xml file containing
this code, then open it in DW CS 3 or earlier (in Code View, there is no
Design View for XML):
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE galleries [
<!ENTITY galleries SYSTEM
"http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/demos/gallery/galleries/galleries.xml">;
]>
<root>
&galleries;
</root>
As far as I know, this specific case is fixed in DW CS 4. Along the years DW
has improved a lot on this area, but it's not 100% safe, it will never be.
As for me, I use both DW and Ecplise, most of the time I have both of them
opened at the same time, sometimes I open TopStyle too :-)
----------------------------
Massimo Foti, web-programmer for hire
Tools for ColdFusion, JavaScript and Dreamweaver:
http://www.massimocorner.com
----------------------------
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306363
> >> because of the Eclipse gestapo.
>
> I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be
> kidding me.
Ve haff vays off making you code.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306359
She did not use the design view and I never have used the design view, she
had in her head that it just would change code out of the blue and probably
from reading things online. In the 4 years I have used DW, it has never
behind my back changed any code accept for one odd ball instance when
editing an XML file with a very specific element name. But of course in the
4 years I have used it, I can not think of one single time I looked at the
design view, it is just an option the software has that I never once have
used.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Joel Watson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306355
At a certain point, this conversation becomes very unproductive. All IDE's have
their advantages and disadvantages--so which is better? Well, the answer doesn't
really have an answer because all offer different ways of doing things, and each
person has their own development needs.
So really, to answer the question, just try out a few and go with what helps you
do what you need to do in the most efficient and least-frustrating way possible.
Whatever tool facilitates that is what is the best IDE, period.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Larry Lyons
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306354
>>> because of the Eclipse gestapo.
>
>I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me.
>
You know, I've never noticed that Eclipse is slow, especially on my MacBook. It
certainly is a lot faster than dreamweaver, and the setup I use is fast
MyEclipse and CFEclipse. MyEclipse give me all the database and xml features that
others tout in one package, as well as server control (I use jboss and java a
lot).
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306353
> and getting into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed an
> old version of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code.
Even now (the design view of) DW does screw up your CFML, as attested in this
very thread.
(CF)Eclipse will never* do this behind your back.
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306352
>>I am learning more
about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot.
I am looking at the specks on the CS4 beta and it looks *tight*.
I agree with Mark Drew. You should have many tools in your utility belt and
know the strengths and weakness's of each. I really like CS3 *A lot* but I
am stuck with DW MX (6) at work and I am not particularly fond of it. CS3
was a giant leap forward.
I have a buddy that is a *gifted* UI developer (a cross browser
CSS/XHTML/XML guru) and he swears by DW and MS Expression. I have done quite
a bit of design and when I am doing GUI centric work DW is my tool of choice
hands down.
my $0.02
G
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306351
Gotcha... we call them "blinders", I think...(not being an equestrian)...
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306350
It's the closest I come to viewing a "soap opera"... "As the IDE Churns"...
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306349
This is basically what bugs me about DW, it has this cloud around it that if
someone uses it then they must be using wizards, tutorials/helpers, and/or
WYSIWYG features. I have been using it for 4 years now and simply because
the people I do the bulk of my work for, they use it and in that entire time
I used a wizard/tutorial once during a lunch break just to see what it was
like and never once opened up the WSYIWYG. Not one person in the entire
group uses wizards or WYSIWYG features and actually I think a good portion
of them do not even realize that those things are in DW. I remember a
similar cloud being around Homesite vs CFStudio many years ago and getting
into an argument with a friend who insisted that she needed an old version
of CFStudio because, in her head, Homesite screws up code.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Greg Luce
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306348
That was supposed to be *blinkered* - "considering only a narrow point of
view".
I do agree there is alot of pressure from the uber-CFers to use Eclipse and
I FINALLY caved in about 9 months ago after a few failed half-day attempts.
I think the thing that put me over the edge was the Mylyn task-context stuff
(it's great for multi-tasking). I had a real problem with the project-based
approach being forced on you in CFE but I got over it. I am learning more
about Dreamweaver from this thread. I'm tempted to give it a shot.
Greg
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306347
In ye olde times, and even now I presume, horses were given blinkers,
these little leather things so they wouldnt look to the sides and
could only look in one direction, the one you were pulling their heads
in.
Kinda kinky in an S&M thing I guess, but meaning that I can only see
in one way, being blind to all the myriad of options.
Of course, being a developer as well as the lead developer for
CFEclipse, I do get to speak to a *LOT* of developers. The most common
thing I get at the bar from other developers are commentaries, dialogs
and monologues about Editors.
So yeah, I know a thing or two about Editors, I look at IN DETAIL how
they implement features and what features they have.
Hence I get a bit tetchy when someone calls me blinkered.
MD
> Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"...
> What is "blinkered"?
>
--
Mark Drew
Blog: http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdrew
Author: Greg Luce
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306346
blindered - "considering only a narrow point of view". You know those
things horses wear on a track so they can only look straight ahead?
Greg
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Mark Kruger
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306345
Rick... Don't encourage them!!!!
Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com
Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"...
What is "blinkered"?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306343
>>All my contractors have to be CFEclipse using, Meat eatin' and Beer
>>Drinking mad persons. Its part of the contract.
>> If they have tattoo's they get a bonus.
-- Ribeye,
-- Baltica No. 9
-- Motorhead insignia ad the Obey Giant Star
So, you hiring?
G
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jason Durham
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306344
Ah... shows how much I know. I didn't know there was a CS4 yet. :)
Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work
for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to
play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports
file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history,
etc.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Jas
> http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html
>
> I was just able to download and install the extensions. It appears
the
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
wrote:
>>> Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage
people
>>> to use it for cf development I wonder?
>>>--
>
========================================================================
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306342
Just so I can continue to follow this little "tit for tat"...
What is "blinkered"?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306341
The "project based" thing does bug me about me Eclipse as well. I
think the bug for "Let me double click on a file and open it in
Eclipse" is something like 10 years old (Ok, maybe not 10...) I "get"
that projects are "better", but not being able to quickly edit a file
just seems... silly.
Now that being said - don't forget you have multiple options to work
with files not in projects. In CFE you have the File Explorer. In the
CF bits (remember the CF Extensions come from Adobe, CFE is another
project) you have RDS. I think Aptana has a File Browser as well.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306340
I have used Dreamweaver a lot. And I have looked at the code view and
used it (not just tried it, Its the fourth tool in my armoury of
editors) so I am not belittling the tool at all.
And no, I am not blinkered, I am NOT saying that if you have
Dreamweaver you will not get the job, it depends on a lot of other
things that are on the CV.
I think I am very good at spotting good talent and dont really care
what you code in. But from EXPERIENCE of reading these CV's and
interviewing people that is what I have found.
Now, there are many exceptions to the rule obviously, and have
interviewed many people who's tool of choice is CFStudio or HomeSite
and things are different.
Depends on the job that people are going for of course.
Also, I should point out that even our HTML ers use Aptana (an Eclipse
product) as well as Dreamweaver.
I prefer to have as many tools available to me, and know what their
strengths and weaknesses are.
I am NOT blinkered, and take objection to the comment
MD
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: mac jordan
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306336
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
My word - I hope I never have to apply for a job to someone as blinkered as
you.
--
mac jordan
www.webhorus.net
www.nibblous.com
www.kestrel.org
www.jordan-cats.org
Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306335
When was the last time you looked at Dreamweaver's code view?
>
> Its like reading that they have used Access compared to MS SQL to me.
--
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306333
James
I get a number of CF's through, people claim many things on that nice
bit of fiction that is called a CV.
When I get to choosing people for interviews, people with "Eclipse",
Frameworks, version control etc etc will be getting through (well, not
all the time) but at least it gives me an idea where their head is at
for senior roles.
Discrimination? NAY!
Its like reading that they have used Access compared to MS SQL to me.
MD
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306334
That should have been CV's rather than CF's ;)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306332
> CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they
> can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers
I assume this is why most places set a practical programing test as part of
the interview.
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306331
> > because of the Eclipse gestapo.
> I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me.
Oh, no, everyone who uses Eclipse is a member of the Thousand Year Riche.
Oh yes.
Let me just check my suitcase for Scotch on the Rocks....
Laptop: check
Wash bag: check
Sharp suit: check
Long coat (black): check
SS cap: check
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
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Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306330
I'd want to look at code before assuming that it was built with a wizard.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306329
> It's amazing that a choice of IDE could affect a teleworking contract.
In a remote-team environment, I think it's fairly important everyone has the
same tools (and the same problems with them).
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306328
I vill build a IDE that will last two zounsand yearz!
Ehem... no.. its the fact that if you made the effort to know
CFEclipse, in comparison to the WYSIWYG coders, you at least know they
can type code and not just do it using Dreamweavers tutorials/helpers
etc.
Its a quick discrimination from the junk.
Hey, I can code ASP with Dreamweaver. Would you hire me as an ASP
developer because of that?
MD
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: mac jordan
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306327
> I'm right there with you Kay. People are afraid to admit they use DW
> because of the Eclipse gestapo.
>
>
Absolutely - I have tried and tried to like Eclipse, but it's too
project-based for me, and I miss DW's code completion. My copy is very
heavily customised. WYSIWYG would be useless for me anyway - we work in
code blocks and includes, and even the CSS doesn't show up because of that.
--
mac jordan
www.webhorus.net
www.nibblous.com
www.kestrel.org
www.jordan-cats.org
Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306326
All my contractors have to be CFEclipse using, Meat eatin' and Beer
Drinking mad persons. Its part of the contract.
If they have tattoo's they get a bonus.
MD
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306324
> I am one behind: 1.6.0_05. You think it would make a diff?
I'm actually using the beta (1.6.0_10-beta) day to day, and found it faster
than 0_06 was.
They've put effort into improving startup performance, for instance.
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306323
> Or do you mean DW in general?
Yeah, wasn't clear, sorry :-)
I've not played with the beta (doesn't run on Linux) but SVN is 'just another'
RCS system, it's not 'code oriented' as such - it's 'file oriented' as much
as anything.
As Flex Builder / CFEclipse has SVN support too, and much better 'coders IDE'
features (even though it's missing big hit things like full re-factoring
support/insight) I can't see much that would make me switch, even if I could.
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306318
I suspect it's actually a fair observation, unfortunately. It might
have prompted the bizarre requirement I noted in a recent contract
opportunity on CF-Jobs; the advertisement specified that the remote
contractor must use CFEclipse.
It's amazing that a choice of IDE could affect a teleworking contract.
Let's hope no-one finds out I'm vegan!
> I make no assumptions. I made an observation. My wording was not intended to
> offend, if I did my apologies.
--
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306314
James please read my first post on this thread.
--
"The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to
discover new ways of thinking about them."
- Sir William Bragg
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306313
I make no assumptions. I made an observation. My wording was not intended to
offend, if I did my apologies.
G
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:52 PM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306312
I was wondering the same thing because the post implied that to me but I
figured I was reading it wrong. I do not think IDE selection is a sign of
skill one way or the other. I do however think that people get a little too
pushy about what IDE to use or not use and that feeling of mine dates back
before I ever heard of Eclipse.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306311
So are you assuming that all DW users are unskilled and only Eclipse
users delve into frameworks and other cutting edge tech?
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306310
>>I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting.
VERY Interesting. I would venture to say that notion reflects a zeitgeist of
the CF community as a whole. Namely the skill/Knowledge divide
This notion has been touched on several times
http://www.briankotek.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/4/5/The-CF-Skill-Divide
http://www.robgonda.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/6/1/Coldfusion-skill-divide
http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/290513.htm
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Aar
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306308
I actually like that phrase and find it rather fitting.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Gerald Guido <gerald.guido@gmail.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306307
>> because of the Eclipse gestapo.
I am sorry. The WHAT? The Eclipse gestapo? You HAVE to be kidding me.
--
"The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to
discover new ways of thinking about them."
- Sir William Bragg
Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306306
Heh, maybe we should all start a DW CF coders support/therapy group,
to deal with all the discrimination and emotional abuse :-)
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
Author: Joel Watson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306305
Yeah, WYSIWYG is more or less unusable for professional web design because doing
such on a professional level requires intimate involvement in the code and has to
transcend drag-n-drop of simplified components. That being said, I think the
WYSIWYG is good enough in Dreamweaver CS3 to more or less get a good idea of what
is going on rendering-side to save incessant IDE-browser switching. Of course,
there will still be plenty of this anyway, but the Dreamweaver as an WYSIWYG can
help reduce a bit of it.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Josh Nathanson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306304
> People used to say "it's too slow compared to HomeSite/CFStudio" but
> these people have now moved to Eclipse, which I find performs
> unacceptably slowly, even on a high spec machine with plenty of RAM.
> In fact, there's a real Eclipse gestapo that try to imply that you're
> not a real coder unless you're using it, which annoys me no end.
I'm right there with you Kay. People are afraid to admit they use DW
because of the Eclipse gestapo.
I find DW much easier to work with, and if/when I occasionally need to use
the design view, it's very helpful. I've tried CFEclipse a few times, and
it's nice for some things, but I end up coming back to DW.
DW was a dog for me at first, but once I switched off "Show contents of
included file" in the preferences it was all gravy. That option really gums
up the works.
-- Josh
Author: Kay Smoljak
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306303
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Phillip Vector
<vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
> Dreamweaver is nice... But I think allot of people (myself included)
> got scared away from it awhile back when the WYSIWYG editor made code
> that was... just unreadable.. Kind of like Front Page *shutter*
>
> Has Dreamweaver improved enough to give another look at?
I've been using DW since the first MX release as a code editor. I
don't go into design view (I never went into it in CFStudio either). I
turn off most panels and toolbars and work with just the files panel
and code window (I'm a keyboard shortcut junkie). It's brilliant -
extensible, customisable, powerful. Code hinting for CF, HTML, CSS and
JavaScript. SVN in the new version although I used an extension for
SVN support in CS3. FTP and SFTP out of the box.
People used to say "it's too slow compared to HomeSite/CFStudio" but
these people have now moved to Eclipse, which I find performs
unacceptably slowly, even on a high spec machine with plenty of RAM.
In fact, there's a real Eclipse gestapo that try to imply that you're
not a real coder unless you're using it, which annoys me no end.
Believe it or not, all of the front end developers I know, who work in
HTML, CSS and JavaScript only, spend most of their time in code view
too - WYSIWYG is not an effective development tool for creating any
kind of site, imho.
--
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306277
I just played with DW's SVN integration. A few notes in no particular order:
1) I made the mistake of pointing to an existing SVN checkout. DW
recognized this and warned me (repeatedly).
2) It does color code the icons when you modify a file.
3) Oddly I couldn't compare my modded file to source. I saw an option,
but it was grayed out.
4) It does let you see history and do comparisons, although you have
to use a third party tool for the diffs. (Bit surprised by that.) DW
did not seem able to work with Changes, but maybe that's Change's
fault.
I'm _considering_ giving it a test drive for a bit - but not if I
can't point DW to an existing SVN checkout. No way I'm going to
_recheck_ everything out.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Joel Watson
<depthdeception@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I use Dreamweaver. I realize that it is not ideal for CF; however, as I
pull double-duty as a designer and developer, it makes sense to use Dreamweaver
since it is so good at the design side, as well as supporting CF syntax (and a
host of others, as already mentioned).
>
> So for a developer, Eclipse is probably best, but if you dip into both
design and dev, Dreamweaver is a great product.
>
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Joel Watson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306275
I use Dreamweaver. I realize that it is not ideal for CF; however, as I pull
double-duty as a designer and developer, it makes sense to use Dreamweaver since
it is so good at the design side, as well as supporting CF syntax (and a host of
others, as already mentioned).
So for a developer, Eclipse is probably best, but if you dip into both design and
dev, Dreamweaver is a great product.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306273
>>I wouldn't use a developer workstation that was expected to run what
looks
like a full copy of the staging system in under 2G RAM.
Which is why I need a new laptop. And why I don't want one w/vista. ;)
>> Do you have the latest Java
I am one behind: 1.6.0_05. You think it would make a diff?
G
--
"One man with courage makes a majority."
-Andrew Jackson
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306270
> Eclipse is indeed a resource pig.
Do you have the latest Java, and is Eclipse using it ?
Also, you can turn down (or up !) it's RAM usage using it's eclipse.ini or
command line too - big topic though :-)
> Between CF server, MSSQL, MySQL, Eclipse,
> FF etc. my workstation hovers around .1.5 gigs of ram.
I wouldn't use a developer workstation that was expected to run what looks
like a full copy of the staging system in under 2G RAM.
--
Tom Chiverton
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Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306269
Can you explain this a bit more? How can you do SVN support that isn't
code oriented? Or do you mean DW in general?
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Tom Chiverton
<tom.chiverton@halliwells.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306265
> Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage people to
> use it for cf development I wonder?
Nope.
It's not code-oriented.
--
Tom Chiverton
****************************************************
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales
under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells
LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in
relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The
Solicitors Regulation Authority.
CONFIDENTIALITY
This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be
confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not
read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any
person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents.
If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells
LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500.
For more information about Halliwells LLP visit
www.halliwells.com.
Author: mac jordan
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306255
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:42 PM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm one of these (apparently) rare Dreamweaver CF coders. We get code
> onto our test server with FTP and DW just makes this too easy.
>
Me too - love that tag completion. I never ever open it in design mode,
mind you.
I find it unspeakable for FTP, mind you, but then I always use CVS at the
command line.
--
mac jordan
www.webhorus.net
www.nibblous.com
www.kestrel.org
www.jordan-cats.org
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306248
I use it all the time, CS3 here and 8 on my other setup. I have only run
into one code rewrite problem and it is a certain XML element name that is
used in just 2-3 of our files. What happens is it is something like
<Blah>""</Blah> and when I open that XML file up it changes to
<Blah></Blah>
but never tells me it is changing it or even shows that the file needs to be
saved. I never use the design mode though, just never had a need for a
feature like that in any IDE so I never use them.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Phillip Vector
<vector@mostdeadlygame.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Phillip Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306246
Dreamweaver is nice... But I think allot of people (myself included)
got scared away from it awhile back when the WYSIWYG editor made code
that was... just unreadable.. Kind of like Front Page *shutter*
Has Dreamweaver improved enough to give another look at?
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:42 AM, James Holmes <james.holmes@gmail.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306244
I'm one of these (apparently) rare Dreamweaver CF coders. We get code
onto our test server with FTP and DW just makes this too easy.
The new version (in beta, as mentioned before) not only has SVN
integration (yay!) but it has code hinting for JQuery, Prototype and
Spry, AIR authoring and the related files/code navigator tools.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Michael Christensen <michael@strib.dk>
wrote:
> Hey guys
>
> We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for
Coldfusion.
> A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse.
>
> What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.
--
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
Author: Simon Free
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306239
I was a longtime Homesite+ fan until the office was forced to move over to
eclipse. It took me a little to get used to it and to also go through all
the different settings and setting it up how I wanted it, but once it was
all set up i started to really like it.
But in all honesty, will they ever create an editor that can compete with
notepad? It's a classic! :-)
-Si
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:06 AM, J.J. Merrick <jj@themerrickhouse.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: J.J. Merrick
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306238
That would make me look into it and possibly give it a try. That was
one of my main reasons for going to CFeclipse.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: J.J. Merrick
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306237
CFEclipse with XMLBuddy and Subclipse.
I also have Dreamweaver 8 but only use that for the WYSIWYG in design
phase. After that I use CFEclipse.
I guess my main reason is that I really liked CFStudio and Homesite
and so it felt like a natural progression. Also the internal
subversion plugin makes developing in my workflow nice. I also like
the fact that it is free which is always a plus.
I just switched to the mac and the ability to have the same exact IDE
as I did on windows allowed for a very smooth transition.
J.J.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 3:51 AM, Michael Christensen <michael@strib.dk>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dominic Watson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306235
>You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you?
lol no: "plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in
one IDE is just fan-bloody-tastic"
;)
Dominic
--
Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk
Author: Kris Jones
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306236
This is an eclipse problem (not cfeclipse problem). I found that the
incredibly ridiculous, unworkable slowness on files approaching 1000
lines (or more) happens when your cursor is next to an open or closed
angle bracket <>. Simply typing a space after the < will suddenly get
the keypress response back up to a workable speed. Unfortunately, that
hoses-up any tag insight you were hoping for.
> I sometimes need to go into CF files og 4000+ lines and when I do, Eclipse
becomes sluggy to an extend that makes working almost
impossible.
Author: Billy Cox
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306233
I guess the school of hard knocks doesn't count as an educational
institution. :(
It was for me =) Adobe offers Flex Builder 3 FREE to educational faculty
and staff.
Rick
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Billy Cox <billy@oldworldspices.com>
wrote:
> You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you?
>
>
Author: Will Swain
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306232
I can confirm this, having just launced extension manager cs4 and imported
the extensions. Certainly works, and better than Cfeclipse.
> Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work
> for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to
> play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports
> file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history,
> etc.
The CF 8 extension works on both DW CS 3 and CS 4. I think the extension is
quite buggy (filed plenty of reports on it), but it behaves the same on both
versions.
Massimo
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306231
> Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work
> for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to
> play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports
> file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history,
> etc.
The CF 8 extension works on both DW CS 3 and CS 4. I think the extension is
quite buggy (filed plenty of reports on it), but it behaves the same on both
versions.
Massimo
Author: Rick Root
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306230
It was for me =) Adobe offers Flex Builder 3 FREE to educational faculty
and staff.
Rick
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Billy Cox <billy@oldworldspices.com>
wrote:
> You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you?
>
>
Author: Will Swain
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306229
Sorry, wans't clear. I'm talking about (and I assume Ray is too) the new
public beta for dw cs4 - available from Labs.
Will
http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html
I was just able to download and install the extensions. It appears the new
tags and functions are now supported with DW CS3.
Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a beta
though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image functions
anyway.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com>
wrote:
> Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now.
>
> I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave
it a
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
========================================================================
===
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306228
Did you try it with DW CS4? I assume all extensions for CS3 would work
for CS4. I'd be willing to give DWCS4 another try if so. I need to
play with the SVN integration a bit though. I'm curious if it supports
file labels like Eclipse though. And right click ops to view history,
etc.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Jas
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306227
Eclipse is indeed a resource pig. Between CF server, MSSQL, MySQL, Eclipse,
FF etc. my workstation hovers around .1.5 gigs of ram.
I had a problem with it being slow and I up-ed the ram to 512 using the
following:
"C:\Program Files\eclipse\eclipse.exe" -vmargs -Xmx512M
It is quite speedy now.
G
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Michael Christensen <michael@strib.dk>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Billy Cox
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306226
You're not saying that Flexbuilder is free are you?
Eclipse w/ CFEclipse & Subclipse:
CFEclipse is excellent plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in
one IDE is just fabn-bloody-tastic. Oh, and its FREE!
Dominic
Author: Jason Durham
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306225
http://www.adobe.com/support/coldfusion/downloads.html
I was just able to download and install the extensions. It appears the
new tags and functions are now supported with DW CS3.
Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a
beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image
functions anyway.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews
<lists@commadelimited.com> wrote:
> Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now.
>
> I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave
it a
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
========================================================================
===
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Massimo Foti
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306223
You to download and install the CF 8 extension. It will not be integrated
out of the box... No comments.
Massimo
> Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now.
>
> I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a
> fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help
> though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet.
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306224
Seriously - although I'm sure there is a good reason. This is just a
beta though. I'm sure we've all memorized all 50 of the new image
functions anyway.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Andy Matthews <lists@commadelimited.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306222
Seriously? CF8 has been out for over 6 months now.
I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave it a
fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code help
though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
being "free"
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Michael Christensen
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306221
I am one of those ones using Eclipse and I must say that I am not all convinced
yet...
I love many of the features, which makes many things much easier - but at the
same time I also fully acknowledge that the speed (or lack thereof) is a big
problem.
I sometimes need to go into CF files og 4000+ lines and when I do, Eclipse
becomes sluggy to an extend that makes working almost impossible.
My reason for starting this thread is, that I would prefer for all developers in
our team to use the same editor - hopefully with synergistic results.
But please keep the comments coming, I also welcome the opportunity to aquaint
myself with new development tools.
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306220
I played with it. Doesn't really do anything for me. Not that I gave
it a fair shake down though. DW just isn't "for me." If you want code
help though, don't use the new DW. It doesn't recognize CF8 tags yet.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Will Swain <will@hothorse.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Will Swain
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306219
Will the built in SVN support in the new dreamweaver encourage people to use
it for cf development I wonder?
I use Eclipse and Dreamweaver - DW for layout and CSS stuff, Eclipse for CF
and Javascript stuff. Eclipse is very slow to start up for me now.
I only use Eclipse because it has SVN built into it, but I personally don't
like it. It's slow, takes up LOADS of memory on a system that's already
taxed because of multiple instances of ColdFusion, etc. I do like the fact
that it's open source and that it has lots of add-ons, but being "free"
shouldn't mean that it sucks.
As for basic code-writing, I prefer EditPlus. It's highly configurable,
lightweight, fast, and offers everything that I could want in an editor
except for SVN.
andy
Hey guys
We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for
Coldfusion.
A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse.
What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306216
I rub two sticks together.
I do adore Eclipse though. Aptana absolutely ROCKS for JS, Ajax and CSS and
AIR development.
I do dust off CF studio for some stuff.
But Rick is right, what ever gets you most productive.
G
--
"One man with courage makes a majority."
-Andrew Jackson
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306217
I only use Eclipse because it has SVN built into it, but I personally don't
like it. It's slow, takes up LOADS of memory on a system that's already
taxed because of multiple instances of ColdFusion, etc. I do like the fact
that it's open source and that it has lots of add-ons, but being "free"
shouldn't mean that it sucks.
As for basic code-writing, I prefer EditPlus. It's highly configurable,
lightweight, fast, and offers everything that I could want in an editor
except for SVN.
andy
Hey guys
We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for
Coldfusion.
A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse.
What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.
Author: Raymond Camden
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306215
I just want to +1 this. You want to use the editor that is best for
you and your team. I will add though that Eclipse takes a bit of
getting used to. It will NOT be as friendly as HomeSite+, but if you
give yourself a week on it, I think you will appreciate it.
I'll also ditto TextMate. I use it for editing files I don't have
Eclipse projects set up for.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Rick Root <rick.root@webworksllc.com>
wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
--
===========================================================================
Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice
Email : ray@camdenfamily.com
Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster
Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
Author: Rick Root
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306213
there is no right answer to this question obviously, except this:
The best cf editor is the one that you are most comfortable with and allows
you to work at peak productivity.
For me - even having been using Flex Builder for 2 years now, that editor is
still Homesite+
Rick
Author: Mark Drew
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306210
TextMate?
MD
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Dale Fraser <dale@fraser.id.au> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dale Fraser
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306209
Flex Builder with CFEclipse installed.
Regards
Dale Fraser
Eclipse w/ CFEclipse & Subclipse:
CFEclipse is excellent plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in
one IDE is just fabn-bloody-tastic. Oh, and its FREE!
Dominic
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dominic Watson
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306208
Eclipse w/ CFEclipse & Subclipse:
CFEclipse is excellent plus having Subversion, CVS and Flexbuilder all in
one IDE is just fabn-bloody-tastic. Oh, and its FREE!
Dominic
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Michael Christensen
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:56545#306205
Hey guys
We've been talking 'round the office about which editor is best for Coldfusion.
A couple of us use HomeSite, others use (CF)Eclipse.
What are YOU using and why? All comments are welcomed.
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