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Official ColdFusion IDE announced
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315770
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Claude Schneegans <
schneegans@internetique.com> wrote:
> >>How long did you try it for ?
>
> Long enough to make sure that the problem was not with me, but with the
> product.
>
You did it wrong.
--
I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love my
wife. And I wish you my kind of success.
Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315763
>>How long did you try it for ?
Long enough to make sure that the problem was not with me, but with the
product.
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315755
> You really didn't like the search feature? It's one of the few things
> that I actually DO like about Eclipse.
Umm... it forced me to "drill down" and then close files to figure out
how many false-positives the search had produced... As compared to
Dreamweaver, wherein I hit "search", and IMMEDIATELY see how many false
positives there are, without moving a hair with the mouse or keyboard.
Then in addition it started failing to find things that were in fact in
the code when doing a multi-file search, which I'd never seen in DW and
there wasn't a "search in open files" option. So no... it was at best
limiting and impractical and at worst unreliable. I've heard that it's
improved since then, but nobody's demanded I use it since then, so I
haven't gotten around to having another look. :)
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 781.769.0723
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315735
How would you search backwards...as a matter of fact, why does it matter how
I search and replace in an IDE...isn't that kind of the point of having an
ide so i don't have to do all the stupid stuff you have to do in code? I
think it is one of the many reasons why Eclispe is not ready for prime
time. It's not a very user friendly search feature...I would go as far asa
say it absoluty sucks.
Eric
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jochem van Dieten
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315734
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Eric Roberts wrote:
> I had a major issue with the search and replace where i did a mass replace
> and the text I was replacing with would get shifted over a few characters to
> the poit where after a few replaces, it was replace something a few words
> down.
But the solution for that is well known: always search (and replace)
backwards. It is exactly the same as manipulating list or array
elements in a loop in ColdFusion.
Jochem
Author: Eric Roberts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315733
I had a major issue with the search and replace where i did a mass replace
and the text I was replacing with would get shifted over a few characters to
the poit where after a few replaces, it was replace something a few words
down. I do miss DW searching and replaces...very elegant. And for those
that claim that eclispe is somehow a leaner and cleaner program, I find it
just as slow and bloated (if not moreso) than DW.
Eric
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315732
That is the search that I do not like and actually one thing I never
understood is why that is not just an option within CTRL-F In DW on the
Find/Replace screen you can search within:
Selected Text
Current Document
Open Documents
Folder
Selected Files in a Site(Project)
Entire Site(Project)
Plus you have matching of case, ignoring of whitespace and use of regular
expressions available.
So it not is a lack of features when I compare the two in regards to their
search functionality but more of how they work. Plus up until recent
versions(not sure of time frame) but Eclipse did not do the return of files
and placement in the code like it does do today but DW has been doing for
years. That actually was a show stopper for me but obviously no longer is
since Eclipse has improved on that. Although will admit searching across
multiple sites in DW would be nice but that is because how only one of my
applications is structured.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Wil Genovese <juggler@visi.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315730
I'll tell you what - once I FOUND the searching tools I started to like
them I bet many people do not know about CTRL+h to do searches across
these:
Across multiple files
Across multiple Projects
Across your entire workspace
Across one or more Working Sets
Across multiple select files in the project view
Plus it does RegEx and if you dare full search/replace across the same sets.
Yes, Eclipse has a big learning curve, but once you learn it's really good.
Is Eclipse for everyone? No. We have designers that do a little CF code and
there is no way I'd try to make them switch to Eclipse. Myself as a strict
programmer I found the switch to be painful and beneficial. Also, if you
have not tried Eclipse/CFEclipse in the past year give it another try. The
newer versions have improved greatly.
Wil Genovese
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Andy Matthews
<lists@commadelimited.com>wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315729
It is one of the things I do not like although admittedly it has gotten much
better since the version Isaac would have been using during that time frame.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Andy Matthews
<lists@commadelimited.com>wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Andy Matthews
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315727
You really didn't like the search feature? It's one of the few things that I
actually DO like about Eclipse.
> When people ask me about changing over to CFEclipse, I say, "You'll
> love it and never want to use [insert other IDE name here] again. But
> you'll hate it for at first -- probably about a week." I agree that it
> takes a commitment to using it -- I forced myself to not use another
> editor for a week. I'm so glad I did. I love CFEclipse.
I used Eclipse for about 6 months at a job in Portland OR. At the end of
6 months, the search features were still making my life hell on an
almost daily basis, and there still wasn't anything in Eclipse that was
making my life any easier than Dreamweaver. And this is coming from
someone who at one time made fairly similar comments about Dreamweaver.
The first 2 or 3 times I tried Dreamweaver I didn't care for it. It
wasn't until I think DW8 that I finally found it workable for me and
today it's an improvement over Homesite. And DW is still pretty
imperfect, but it's the least problematic tool I've found thus far.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 781.769.0723
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315725
I didn't like Eclipse at first either. It is like all acquired tastes:
Fickle and highly subjective. Just like developers themselves. I was a hard
core "You'll take my copy of CFStudio from me when you pry my cold dead
fingers from my mouse and key board." user until last year. I was all over
the ASP and PHP for Homesite websites. I even contributed an add-on for PHP.
http://wilk4.com/asp4hs/php4hs.htm
http://wilk4.com/asp4hs/default.htm
It was the third try that did the trick. I forced myself to stick with it.
It took me a few days to get reasonably productive with it and a week after
that it was "Whoa!". Between CFEclipse, The Adobe Plugin, Aptana, WST, DB
tools, Quantum (and PHPEclipse) my Eclipse install is such that I don't miss
CF Studio hardly at all. Granted it took few months to get there.
@Ike
I am the same with DW. No programable short cut keys, no deal. DW CS4 is
awesome BTW. The live code view is like FireBug in real time. I do keep CF
Studio handy for search and other things it does well.
G!
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Kris Jones <kris.jones2@verizon.net>
wrote:
> When people ask me about changing over to CFEclipse, I say, "You'll
> love it and never want to use [insert other IDE name here] again. But
> you'll hate it for at first -- probably about a week." I agree that it
> takes a commitment to using it -- I forced myself to not use another
> editor for a week. I'm so glad I did. I love CFEclipse.
>
> -KJ
--
Gerald Guido
http://www.myinternetisbroken.com
"Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them. My mother
cleans them."
-- Rita Rudner
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315724
> When people ask me about changing over to CFEclipse, I say, "You'll
> love it and never want to use [insert other IDE name here] again. But
> you'll hate it for at first -- probably about a week." I agree that it
> takes a commitment to using it -- I forced myself to not use another
> editor for a week. I'm so glad I did. I love CFEclipse.
I used Eclipse for about 6 months at a job in Portland OR. At the end of
6 months, the search features were still making my life hell on an
almost daily basis, and there still wasn't anything in Eclipse that was
making my life any easier than Dreamweaver. And this is coming from
someone who at one time made fairly similar comments about Dreamweaver.
The first 2 or 3 times I tried Dreamweaver I didn't care for it. It
wasn't until I think DW8 that I finally found it workable for me and
today it's an improvement over Homesite. And DW is still pretty
imperfect, but it's the least problematic tool I've found thus far.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 781.769.0723
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Judah McAuley
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315717
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Jordan Michaels <jordan@viviotech.net>
wrote:
> Personally, I too was daunted by Eclipse at first glance. I loaded it
> up, got the intro screen, and thought to myself: "Okay.... what now?" It
> was unfamiliar, and I didn't know how to use it at all, let alone
> productively or, god forbid, "comfortably".
One of the big differences between Eclipse and, say, Homesite or
CFStudio is that Eclipse is project-based and the others are
file-based. When I installed CFEclipse for the first time I was
thinking...umm...where are my files? How the *bleep* do I actually get
to edit my stuff?
Eclipse really presumes a certain development strategy. It happens to
be a good one, in my opinion, but if that's not how you do it, then it
can be difficult. It presumes that you pull your code onto your
machine, that you work on projects, develop locally, test, then push
your changes back. If you are working in a situation where a number of
developers are working on a single code base that's on a remote server
(as I was when I first tried it out) and you are modifying/testing on
that remote server, its not nearly as obvious how to do that in
Eclipse.
Eclipse definitely rewards a certain style of development, I think.
You can use it in other setups, but it is not immediately obvious how.
That has advantages and disadvantages but more than anything else, its
just different than Homesite.
Judah
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315714
That has been my experience with any IDE change. I still did not like
CFEclipse after my 1-2 month forced onto myself trial period.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Kris Jones
<kris.jones2@verizon.net>wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Kris Jones
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315712
When people ask me about changing over to CFEclipse, I say, "You'll
love it and never want to use [insert other IDE name here] again. But
you'll hate it for at first -- probably about a week." I agree that it
takes a commitment to using it -- I forced myself to not use another
editor for a week. I'm so glad I did. I love CFEclipse.
-KJ
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jordan Michaels
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315708
Claude Schneegans wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
10 times huh? That's interesting.
Personally, I too was daunted by Eclipse at first glance. I loaded it
up, got the intro screen, and thought to myself: "Okay.... what now?" It
was unfamiliar, and I didn't know how to use it at all, let alone
productively or, god forbid, "comfortably".
It took me roughly a week to figure out how to use it productively (get
CFEclipse installed, find out how to edit my files, etc), and quite a
while after that to get to the point of being "comfortable" with it.
It's price and it's platform independence were major driving factors for
me, and kept me motivated to learn how to use it. If you don't have
those or other motivators, I can see why some folks don't get past the
point of "the confusing interface".
Honestly, however, once you do, it's pretty sweet. I've been using it
for years now.
I personally think Mark Drew and the other contributers to CFEclipse
deserve huge snaps for their efforts in this area. Cheers to you.
Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
Adobe Solution Provider
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315700
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Claude Schneegans <
schneegans@internetique.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
You did it wrong.
--
I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love my
wife. And I wish you my kind of success.
Author: Jochem van Dieten
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315697
>>Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
>>http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Bolt
>
> I think it's a shame that the makers of ColdFusion make use of php as their
Wiki.
I think it is a shame that the ColdFusion Community can't write a Wiki
that runs on ColdFusion that can even hope to approach the features
that some of the Wiki's created by the PHP Comunity offer. (I have
high hopes for CodexWiki, but t isn't out yet.)
Jochem
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315679
> Right. I tried Eclipse once, and found it about 10 times more
> complicated than CF Studio, and 10 times less powerful.
How long did you try it for ?
--
Tom Chiverton, memeber, CFEclipse mafia
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Author: Claude Schneegans
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315674
>>It's not a very comfortable environment for a lot of people, myself
included. I'd love to see statistics, but I'm betting less than a third
of the community is on it.
Free is nice, but comfort is better.
Right. I tried Eclipse once, and found it about 10 times more
complicated than CF Studio, and 10 times less powerful.
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315661
> However, last year Jason Delmore and Adam Lehman came to our company
> to interview us about what we thought the next version of Coldfusion
Something similar happened at Scotch on the Rocks.
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to challengingly reintermediate error-free e-business
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This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315659
> Thinking back on the evolution of Flex from 1.0 to 2.0, that seems to have
I'd love Adobe-CF to be free, but realisticly the 'free CF' space already has
established players, so why enter it ?
I wouldn't be surprised if Bolt was free. Adobe-CF is free in some situations,
so for instance schools and universitys could easily use the two together.
Sort of like the opposite way around to Flex, where the IDE costs but the
language is free, Adobe-CF could cost but the IDE is 'given away' (or bundle
X licenses with Y edition of the server).
> even threw in the free scaled down SDK for hacking Flex directly without
> the full feature.
The Flex SDK isn't 'scaled down' at all. Anything Builder can do you can do
with the SDK, including line debugging.
The only thing missing is Charting aka Data Visulisation, but you can copy
them from a (demo) Builder install and use them without issue.
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to globally establish cutting-edge partnerships
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available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in
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This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be
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Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315639
The same place everyone else did, from the link in the first post of
this thread. I'm still waiting to get my hands on the stuff also.
However, last year Jason Delmore and Adam Lehman came to our company
to interview us about what we thought the next version of Coldfusion
should have and they talked about the possible IDE and we talked about
possible features in the IDE. If the features that were mentioned are
in Bolt then CFEclipse will look like Notepad in comparison. The
issue of pricing came up and we made our opinions heard.
We suggested a fair price for stand alone IDE purchases (I was
insistent on no more than $99) and we suggested that there be a
certain number of free IDE licenses with the purchase of Coldfusion
Enterprise. Now we only made suggestions. I have no clue if they are
considering our pricing suggestions.
BTW: This was part of Jason's mission last year to meet many companies
that use Coldfusion and to get one on one feedback about the current
product and going forward. Ours was one of six companies that I know
of in the Twin Cities that they met with.
And even though we did not sign a NDA for that meeting they did ask
that we keep details confidential. That I've done.
Wil Genovese
One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
On Nov 19, 2008, at 4:43 PM, Gerald Guido wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315637
>> I know all about being a Dyslexic programmer and sometimes those
squiggly little lines LIE! ;-) You know what I mean.
Yep.... all too well. ;-) Even worse is how spell check has *NO idea*, what
I am trying to spell some times. I mean none. Thank God for Google's "Did
you mean?".
So Wil, Did you get your invite yet? Why must Adobe taunt us so? I am
*really* looking forward to CF9. Especially the ORM/Hibernate stuff and the
CF Script/CFC enhancements. I really hope that the code generation feature
in Bolt is something more than the current CFC wizard in Eclipse. I am
hoping for something that can be templated and/or generates forms.
G!
--
Gerald Guido
http://www.myinternetisbroken.com
"Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them. My mother
cleans them."
-- Rita Rudner
Author: Tyler Fitch
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315627
The Adobe Web Team uses Mach-II, Transfer and ColdSpring among other
things. But they're not something being bundled with a product for sale
like CF, they're just part of the website.
t
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315623
> Why not use one of the many CF Wiki apps that are out there?
>
> It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm just saying that if
> you go to a site that is promoting a product using another product..
> It just looks bad IMHO.
Actually there can be some sticky issues with using code that's been
provided by someone else in the community. A while back when I was in
the Adobe Community Experts program, we had a conference call in which
we talked with the CF engineering team about the next release (which
ultimately became CF8/Scorpio), although this was before the beta.
Anyway there were some other things discussed on the call, one of which
being a community portal for ACE and UG Managers (which they didn't have
yet although they do now).
At the time I think Mike Dinowitz had offered to contribute some time
coding for the portal and there was a kind of hesitated demuring from
the Adobe side of the conversation. I don't think they ever actually
said yes or no, but one other thing that had been mentioned was that
they had to be careful about how they marketed the ACE program even,
that they couldn't particularly agressively pursue people to become
members because they had to be careful about the laws regarding their
relationship to the team members...
they were concerned about there being an appearance of either
preferential treatment or possibly abusing the community for their
contributions since the ACE members are non-paid and Adobe is a
for-profit company.
My recollection of the specifics is a little fuzzy, so I apologize if
I'm a little off in my description. But the basics were legal issues
surrounding the contribution of work done "for hire" for a commercial
entity (Adobe) by another commercial entity (ACE member) but done for
free. And I imagine that may potentially extend toward the use of other
even open-source CF applications. I'm not saying it does -- just that it
may -- I don't know the specific laws in question.
In retrospect actually I don't think it was Adobe yet, I think that was
still the Team Macromedia program. But anyway, my fuzzy recollection
aside, there are sometimes other issues in question. :)
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 781.769.0723
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315616
Not necessarily true - Most of the CF programmers I know are real
programmers classically trained in Computer Science programs and
schools. For myself I've learned and programmed in Assembler,
FORTRAN, C/C++, PERL and even lowly BASIC along with a variety of
other languages outside of the languages I use for building web
applications. I've been programming for 20 plus years. The
programmers where I work with are programmers and can do some design
elements. So while Coldfusion does attract many designers that can do
some code (poorly in my opinion) I also see lots of programmers
writing Coldfusion that can do some design (ever more poorly - just
look at my design work).
I can also tell you that from my discussions with certain people 'in
the know' Coldfusion sales are not hurting. It does amazes me that
when there is a really cool product that the masses want how many
people can claim tons of reasons why they think the company would do
much better if they just gave it away for free. Face it, you just
want something for free. No matter what the product, you can "prove"
why you think you should have it for free.
Well the world does not work that way. That's why you have a job (if
you have one) someone wants the product/service you can create. Even
though you or your employer charges for that product. I'm sure your
clients can come up with many reasons as to why you should code and
design a web site for free. ;-)
And Gerald, I know all about being a Dyslexic programmer and sometimes
those squiggly little lines LIE! ;-) You know what I mean.
Wil Genovese
One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Gerald Guido wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315608
>>."Humm I want to learn a new programming language, let's see what IDE is
out there for free."
I do. But then again I am dyslexic and started out as a designer. Those
squiggly lines are a God Send. I also know a lot of design (IU) oriented ppl
dependent heavily on their tools. A lot of design people really struggle
with code. That is largely why Thermo even exists and why DW is so popular.
I imagine that a large portion of the CF user base fall in that camp.
G
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Jason Fisher
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315601
@Adam,
Thinking back on the evolution of Flex from 1.0 to 2.0, that seems to have worked
quite well. Originally pricing the server at $15k - $20k and having a decent IDE
left it a very flat technology with extremely low adoption. When they moved to
giving the compiler and server away for free and charging $500 for the full IDE,
Flex took off like wildfire. Heck, they even threw in the free scaled down SDK
for hacking Flex directly without the full feature.
Jason
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Adam Haskell
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315599
A free scaled down version exists, its called cfEclipse...
Offering an IDE for free will not get people interested in a Language. IDEs
are a means to an end not a beiginning (you may consider Visual Studio a
slight departure from that statement). I don't think people typically sit
around on a Saturday afternoon and think "Humm I want to learn a new
programming language, let's see what IDE is out there for free."
If anything they should charge $500 for an IDE and give away ColdFusion for
free (standard at least maybe not enterprise). As servers become more and
more powerful the need for multiple license decreases (the only thing that
keeps the need high is increased bloat of product and Adobe has commited to
not releasing slower version of CF in the future). As the demand for more
web based aps increases the # of developers increases as well, the IDE is
directly tied to the # of developers and is steady, or grows as your server
technology adoption increases. The only problem with this is folks that make
a free IDE, Adobe will always have to add additional value to the IDE.
Adam
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Pete Ruckelshaus
<pruckelshaus@gmail.com>wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315593
Yes, they've announced a new IDE. I've applied to be pat of the beta
test program. Eagerly awaiting.
Wil Genovese
One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Gerald Guido wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Nitai
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315591
Unless they find Kabunto http://www.kabunto.org that is :-)
On Nov 19, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Charlie Griefer wrote:
> 've seen CF sites that use php forums because there are just
> more/fuller-featured forums available in PHP.
--
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Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315590
So.... I hear that Adobe has a new IDE for CF.
Just sayin'
G
--
Gerald Guido
http://www.myinternetisbroken.com
"Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them. My mother
cleans them."
-- Rita Rudner
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315589
>sigh<
But Adobe isn't selling a Wiki product on the labs site.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Phillip M. Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315587
Ok... Let me put it this way..
Let's say I sell a forum. It costs $500, but contains all the bells and
whistles you could ever want. I tell you how great it is and so on.
Then you click on the forums section of my site that sells said forum
and find phpbb running there.
Still interested in buying my forum software? :)
Charlie Griefer wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Cutter (CFRelated)
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315584
I think they're a little busy, what with writing new IDEs and Centaur
and AIR 1.5 and the like. Momma had a sayin', "If it aint broke, don't
fix it."
Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
_____________________________
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com
Phillip M. Vector wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315583
Update an application that works perfectly?
In an ideal world, maybe. In the real world, very little in the way of
justification. I go to the labs site for information. Currently, I get the
information I need. If it ain't broke...
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Pete Ruckelshaus
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315582
I realize that this has been flogged into oblivion, but here goes.
I think Adobe should develop and distribute this editor for free.
Why? Simple. It will introduce more people to ColdFusion as a
development platform, thus making them more revenue. Or, at the very
least, offer a stripped down version with just language support but
without the other buzzers, lights, and bells. If it works as nicely
as Aptana, that would be a plus, since I use Aptana for teaching my
Web Design classes.
Pete
Author: Phillip M. Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315581
So they couldn't update? :)
Tyler Fitch wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315580
Are there many? AFAIK there is Canvas... and CodexWiki (the latter being
very new)... so the options at the time were likely fairly limited. If the
php wiki did what they needed it to do out of the box, I don't think it was
a bad decision to go that route.
I've seen CF sites that use php forums because there are just
more/fuller-featured forums available in PHP. Clients want results. They
don't generally care if the file extension is .cfm or .php, as long as it
works :)
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tyler Fitch
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315579
So which of those existed in 2006 when Labs was created?
You only proved my point here.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Phillip M. Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315578
From raiforge searching under "wiki"
Canvas ColdFusion Wiki
A ColdFusion wiki. ColdFusion Raymond Camden 4/25/08 5:37 PM
CodexWiki
An Enterprise ColdFusion Wiki Engine ColdFusion Luis Majano 6/5/08
12:52 AM
Skweegee
Project Management / Issue Management System, Wiki, SVN Browser
ColdFusion Russ Johnson 10/11/08 12:37 AM
Trac_Fu
ColdFusion based Trac replacement with SVN Browser and Wiki.
ColdFusion Russ Johnson 8/28/07 12:50 AM
Weeki
A Flex-powered Wiki System Flex Sebastian Zarzycki 6/27/07 7:26 PM
WikiConverter for ColdFusion 8
Converts wiki markup (based upon Wikipedia standard) to HTML and HTML to
wiki markup. ColdFusion Brian Rinaldi 7/2/07 8:11 PM
So... 6.
Tyler Fitch wrote:
> Labs was launched several years ago.
>
> What CF Wiki apps existed back then? Labs is not run by web developers.
> It's run by product managers who only want to get their data on to pages.
> Not build an app that already exists.
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315577
Of course the site is promoting many different products from Adobe. So if
it were in CF then someone might complain about it not being in Flex and so
on and so on.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tyler Fitch
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315576
Labs was launched several years ago.
What CF Wiki apps existed back then? Labs is not run by web developers.
It's run by product managers who only want to get their data on to pages.
Not build an app that already exists.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Phillip M. Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315574
Why not use one of the many CF Wiki apps that are out there?
It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm just saying that if
you go to a site that is promoting a product using another product.. It
just looks bad IMHO.
Charlie Griefer wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315573
I don't think it's about "whatever works" as much as it is about "whatever
is available".
There was obviously a wiki already built with PHP that addressed the
immediate business needs. What would the ROI be on delaying the launch of
the labs site so that a wiki application with the exact same functionality
could be built in CF?
The labs site is aimed at developers. As developers, we're always fighting
the battle of deadlines (among others). As developers, we should realize in
seeing the .php extension that it was simply a matter of utilizing resources
efficiently and not reinventing the wheel unnecessarily.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315572
Well this WIKI site isn't selling anything. It's just a WIki on a labs site
for beta testing. The Adobe.com site with all their released products for
sale runs on Coldfusion and a whole lot more.
So I think you can see they are using their products. Someone is just being
a PITA because Adobe opted to use a free off the shelf Wiki to post some
documentation at their LABS site. The labs being a place where one
experiments with all sorts of technology.
Wil Genovese
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Phillip M. Vector <
Vector@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Phillip M. Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315566
True..
But if I was a customer and I didn't see the technology being sold to me
as being used, I'd suspect it wasn't that good to begin with.
While I agree that using whatever works is the best way to go,
appearances are everything.
Dave Watts wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315563
> I think it's a shame that the makers of ColdFusion make use of php as their
Wiki.
I suspect Adobe created this well before they even acquired
Macromedia. But even if they didn't, Adobe is a big company. Most
truly big enterprises don't use a single product, they have
departments using all sorts of things. There's a whole field devoted
to trying to minimize that within enterprises: enterprise
architecture. So I wouldn't read too much into that.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more
information!
Author: Adam Haskell
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315555
Why does this matter honestly? Groovy/Grail's entire website ran off
something(s) other than Groovy for well over 2 years before they finally
broke down and wrote something in Grails. If there is a good solution out
there what's the point in creating something new? Are was all that obsessed
with beating our chest saying "Look what I can do with ColdFusion" that we
require everything from adobe to be either Flex or ColdFusion? Reality check
ColdFusion is not the only technology out there for the web, sometimes there
are other solutions. While we're at it though one has to ask one's self why
doesn't adobe just write Bolt entirely in Flash/Flex and use Air...I mean
come on they can create a word processor with it why not my CF IDE? Sound a
bit rediculous? Yeah I figured so...
Adam
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Rand Thacker
<rand.thacker@gmail.com>wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rand Thacker
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315554
>Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
>http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Bolt
I think it's a shame that the makers of ColdFusion make use of php as their Wiki.
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315551
> >>So based on this comment I am curious what is your interest level in
> >> Bolt?
> As I like to put it: "All of everything, twice, yesterday, to go please".
See the capital bits of http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/tomc/entry/women,
reminds
me a lot of clients :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to professionally extend best-of-breed fine-grained mission-critical
real-time e-commerce
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Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315541
If you think about it. If we are now signing up for the Beta, that
means there is an Alpha.
Some of the people who walk among us may be using the Alpha but are
bound not to talk about it.
Kinda sounds kinky, doesn't it?
Mike
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315532
>>So based on this comment I am curious what is your interest level in
Bolt?
As I like to put it: "All of everything, twice, yesterday, to go please".
But then again I am a bit of an IDE junkie.
G!
> So based on this comment I am curious what is your interest level in Bolt?
>
> Adam
>
>
--
Gerald Guido
http://www.myinternetisbroken.com
"Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them. My mother
cleans them."
-- Rita Rudner
Author: brad
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315530
I don't think anyone's in the beta yet. Ben said that it wasn't ready
yet, but if you signed up on labs you would be notified when it went to
beta. They wouldn't have said that if they were ready to release it
today. From the way they made it sound-- anyone could sign up for the
beta who wanted to. In fact, here's Ben's blog entry on it complete
with links...
http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2008/11/18/ColdFusion-Announcements-At-MAX-Keynote
Now, I don't know if they plan on _accepting_ everyone who signs up...
~Brad
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315529
> oh yeah. espacially since the beta is not even available yet - they are
> just accepting sign-up for it...
Plus the whole* world is going to press that sign up button. I know Adobe said
they were going to be more open over CF...
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to continually restore sexy strategic 24/7 environments
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Author: Azadi Saryev
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315524
oh yeah. espacially since the beta is not even available yet - they are
just accepting sign-up for it...
Azadi Saryev
Sabai-dee.com
http://www.sabai-dee.com/
Tom Chiverton wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315519
> Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
Oh my.
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to preemptively seize convergence
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Author: Tom Chiverton
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315515
> Lets be blunt - Bolt is a commercial product and it will have a price tag.
It doesn't have to have one.
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Helping to collaboratively visualize end-to-end plug-and-play systems
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Author: Adam Haskell
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315512
So based on this comment I am curious what is your interest level in Bolt?
Adam
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Yves Arsenault
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315510
haha!;-)
Yves Arsenault
"Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend".
--Martin Luther King, Jr.
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Charlie Griefer <charlie.griefer@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
> Legend tells of one particular curmudgeonly user group manager (who shall
> remain nameless) who wanted to know which attendees were in one of the CF
> betas. so he said, "If you're *not* in the CF beta... raise your hand."
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315509
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Rick Faircloth
<Rick@whitestonemedia.com>wrote:
> Anyone know if that's so? If you have the beta, you can't even tell
> anyone you have it?
> (You could tell me, I guess, but then you'd have to kill me... :oP )
>
As far as I know, that is so.
Legend tells of one particular curmudgeonly user group manager (who shall
remain nameless) who wanted to know which attendees were in one of the CF
betas. so he said, "If you're *not* in the CF beta... raise your hand."
--
I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love my
wife. And I wish you my kind of success.
Author: Les Mizzell
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315508
Gerald Guido wrote:
>>> Has anyone who signed up for the beta online actually gotten a copy
of
> the beta, yet?
We wouldn't be allowed to say because of the NDA, now would
we?
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315507
I once heard the cf reporter tool was going to cost money until the
community got all up in arms about it, no idea if that is true since would
have had to happen in some sort of beta because pretty sure it was always
free. So if any truth is behind that then never do know, maybe if enough
people "cry for something for nothing" then it would be free. I honestly do
not see why it would be free and could easily see it costing a couple
hundred dollars at the minimum. I am just wondering how many features this
is going to have that can be taken advantage of by prior versions(within the
MX series) of CF.
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
> Lets be blunt - Bolt is a commercial product and it will have a price tag.
> If it has features you want and you think its worth it then you'll buy it.
> If not, then not. No need to debate, no need to argue. Bottom line.
Author: James Holmes
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315505
They probably can't tell you about the NDA, because seeing the NDA
probably means they're in a beta, about which they can't tell you...
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315504
Anyone know if that's so? If you have the beta, you can't even tell
anyone you have it?
(You could tell me, I guess, but then you'd have to kill me... :oP )
Rick
Dawson, Michael wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dawson, Michael
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315503
If anyone did make the beta, they are probably bound by an NDA to not answer this
question.
Mike
_____
Sent: Tue 11/18/2008 7:36 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Official ColdFusion IDE announced
Has anyone who signed up for the beta online actually gotten a copy of
the beta, yet?
Rick
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315502
>> Has anyone who signed up for the beta online actually gotten a copy of
the beta, yet?
Nope.
--
Gerald Guido
http://www.myinternetisbroken.com
"Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them. My mother
cleans them."
-- Rita Rudner
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315501
I would imagine that it would act like any other Plugin. I am sure that it
would incorporate the existing feature so it would be an upgrade or you
would have to uninstall your existing Adobe CF plugin. One thing to note is
that you can right click on a file and say "Edit with" and chose an editor.
I often open CFM files with Aptana to work with xhtml.
G
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Rick Faircloth
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315500
Has anyone who signed up for the beta online actually gotten a copy of
the beta, yet?
Rick
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
> Lets be blunt - Bolt is a commercial product and it will have a price tag.
If it has features you want and you think its worth it then you'll buy it. If
not, then not. No need to debate, no need to argue. Bottom line.
Author: Michael Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315499
Lets be blunt - Bolt is a commercial product and it will have a price tag. If it
has features you want and you think its worth it then you'll buy it. If not, then
not. No need to debate, no need to argue. Bottom line.
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315497
Hmm... When you swap out *Development Platform* for *IDE* it sounds a lot
like the argument for using CF itself.
EX:
"But, as a developer, the functionality of my *Development Platform* can
definitely affect my productivity, and if I'm significantly more productive
with a $400 *Development Platform*, or a $2,000 *Development Platform*, that
fixed cost will be quickly outweighed by the extra work I can do."
>>Since I'm not sending anyone here an invoice for services rendered, my
worth or lack thereof is irrelevant.
Not so. Your contribution to the community is immeasurable.
G!
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315498
I was just wondering if Bolt (base on Eclipse) could play nice along
side CFEclipse? That is something I will have to try. After once
you have Eclipse everything else is a plugin on top.
I also wonder if Bolt will be fairly Eclipse version independent.
That way when Eclipse upgrades we can upgrade Eclipse and put Bolt on
top. Hmmm.... Lots of wondering to do until I can get my copy to
play with.
Wil Genovese
One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
On Nov 18, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Yves Arsenault wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Yves Arsenault
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315496
I've used CFEclipse for a long time now...
But I agree with Michael.
When all the features and price is announced, I'll be able to check out the
features.
Ultimately, if it seems that it would be "comfortable" and help me be a
little more productive (sometimes comfort could do that)... I wouldn't mind
paying a bit.
Nice to have choices too.
Thanks,
Yves Arsenault
"Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend".
--Martin Luther King, Jr.
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315493
> Dave... Calm down.. He's just expressing his opinion. :)
As am I. Until the features and pricing are known, that's all we can do.
> Not willing to put down extra money for features that may
> not matter to him doesn't decrease his worth.
Then, those features wouldn't be compelling, would they? That's
specifically why I wrote "compelling features". My point was simply
that, without knowing more, it strikes me as premature to dismiss it.
> I mean, someone could say that your worth is
> overinflated, but thankfully, no one is that rude.
Since I'm not sending anyone here an invoice for services rendered, my
worth or lack thereof is irrelevant. But, as a developer, the
functionality of my development environment can definitely affect my
productivity, and if I'm significantly more productive with a $400
IDE, or a $2,000 IDE, that fixed cost will be quickly outweighed by
the extra work I can do. Again, my point was simply that it's a bit
shortsighted to dismiss this without additional investigation.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Craig Dudley
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315491
Strangely your the second person who's misinterpreted what I said.
I didn't actually say most people use CFEclipse at all. I merely intimated that
anyone already using CFEclipse, would probably carry on if Bolt costs any money,
they are both based on Eclipse after all so will quite likely have many
similarities.
As for the new features, none of them jumped out as being that time saving for
me, I'll keep an open mind as ever but at present I'm not excited.
> If it costs more than $0 I'll carry on using cfeclipse, as will most people
I suspect.
First, most people don't use CFEclipse. Second, is your time really
that worthless to you, assuming this has compelling features? The MAX
general session demo looked pretty interesting to me. Third, Adobe
hasn't released any pricing info for this yet, and I wouldn't be
surprised if they haven't even figured that out for themselves yet.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Phillip M. Vector
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315490
Dave... Calm down.. He's just expressing his opinion. :)
Dave Watts wrote:
> First, most people don't use CFEclipse.
I think he meant changing from something that costs nothing to something
that costs money.
> Second, is your time really
> that worthless to you, assuming this has compelling features? The MAX
> general session demo looked pretty interesting to me.
Not willing to put down extra money for features that may not matter to
him doesn't decrease his worth.
I mean, someone could say that your worth is overinflated, but
thankfully, no one is that rude.
> Third, Adobe
> hasn't released any pricing info for this yet, and I wouldn't be
> surprised if they haven't even figured that out for themselves yet.
Fair enough. It's ok to start thinking about it once they announced it.
I use CFEclipse as well and the feature list shown (I didn't see any
kind of demonstration as I didn't sign up for the beta) doesn't impress
me at all. I'm with Matt on this. If it isn't free, then I probably
won't be using it unless it has some better features added in .
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315488
> I'm not on the beta, but I'd be surprised if the code generation
> features include any kind of support for frameworks other than the ones
> built-in to CF like the Hibernate features and Application.cfc.
In today's demo, support for assorted non-Adobe frameworks was
mentioned briefly, but I didn't catch any details.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
Author: Dave Watts
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315487
> If it costs more than $0 I'll carry on using cfeclipse, as will most people
I suspect.
First, most people don't use CFEclipse. Second, is your time really
that worthless to you, assuming this has compelling features? The MAX
general session demo looked pretty interesting to me. Third, Adobe
hasn't released any pricing info for this yet, and I wouldn't be
surprised if they haven't even figured that out for themselves yet.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more
information!
Author: Craig Dudley
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315478
I only switched to Eclipse earlier this year, hell I was still using an ancient
copy of CF-Studio 5. I've always hated Dreamweaver for writing code and never
switched despite actually having a licensed copy on my machine for years (though
not any more).
I'm VERY glad I did finally make the switch though and it didn't take long to get
used to, a few weeks at most. Any official IDE that's based on top of Eclipse is
going to be similar in many ways, being similar in price is the only way I'll
switch to be honest.
As you say Wil, it's also great to be able to use a PC or a Mac and swap between
the two often, as I do.
Craig.
I know what you mean Michael. It took me a long while to get comfy in
CFEclipse. Now I use it all the time. It was the switch to CFEclipse that
freed me from Windows.
Wil Genovese
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Alan Rother
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315476
My main complaints about cfeclipse are the same as my complaints about
dreamweaver.
It's too darn slow! Using Homesite I can switch between projects a hundred
times faster, which is critical to me as I tend to work on so many different
things throughout the day.
Other than that I like most of the extra features cfeclipse offers, I still
can't make use of it though...
=]
--
Alan Rother
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Manager, Phoenix Cold Fusion User Group, AZCFUG.org
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315472
I know what you mean Michael. It took me a long while to get comfy in
CFEclipse. Now I use it all the time. It was the switch to CFEclipse that
freed me from Windows.
Wil Genovese
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: David Low
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315471
Most people don't use cfeclipse - from a recent tour of developer
interviews (quite a wide field from all over the UK), not one person
used it - few had even heard of it.
Most of them either used Dreamweaver of some edition, Homesite or some
generic text editors!
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315470
The rest of the description is pretty...meh.
<sarcasm>Syntax highlight in an IDE? Wow! </sarcasm>
Hell, my Notepad replacement (Notepad++ ) does code completion and Syntax
highlighting for CF. But I suspect that being an Adobe product, Bolt will be
finely crafted piece of software worthy of the Adobe name.
>>But I'd expect some things from a commerical IDE that I don't see
here, like code refactoring
Ditto. Or even Open source offerings for that matter. Products like
MyEclipse, NetBeans, MS Visual Whatever, and the various PHP editors I have
used always leave me feel wanting.
G
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: AJ Mercer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315468
would those with FlexBuilder get a discount on Bolt (if it is not free)??
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Aar
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315467
I am in the same boat as you, do not find it comfortable. Do you think the
comfort issue is because of Eclipse itself though? I am wondering just how
good can they get it when building on that. Although I suppose Flex Builder
is a good example of how good they can get things.
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Michael Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315465
I don't think most people are using cfeclipse. It's not a very comfortable
environment for a lot of people, myself included. I'd love to see statistics, but
I'm betting less than a third of the community is on it.
Free is nice, but comfort is better.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Charlie Griefer
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315458
which is why it's nice to have options :)
i'll take a look at the features and the price tag and make a choice at that
point.
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Craig Dudley
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315456
If it costs more than $0 I'll carry on using cfeclipse, as will most people I
suspect.
I wonder just how much the "commercial" release is going to cost? I
can't see spending more than $50 for a new IDE.
Matthew Williams
Geodesic GraFX
Author: s. isaac dealey
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315457
> ORM would be nice since CF9 is supposed to include Hibernate.
> Application code generation...maybe. Depends on how configurable it
> is as there are a number of different frameworks out there. I don't
> think it would work very well for Adobe to say "this is the one true
> framework". The rest of the description is pretty...meh.
<sarcasm>Syntax
> highlight in an IDE? Wow! </sarcasm>
I'm not on the beta, but I'd be surprised if the code generation
features include any kind of support for frameworks other than the ones
built-in to CF like the Hibernate features and Application.cfc. It would
be nice if they were able to design an external DSL that would allow us
to add support for our own frameworks in the same sort of way that we've
been able to add support for new tags to the code hints in previous IDEs
for a while now. I can imagine a system in which we could provide an XML
file or maybe a bundle of XML and related files in a specific directory
describing how to gen code for our own framework and that would allow
the IDE to pick it up and execute the code generation for whatever we're
using personally. That may not be in Bolt or at least not yet. But I
would really expect Adobe's tools to be one way or the other either just
for the CF native features or designed to allow custom gen'ing templates.
--
s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch
isn't it time for a change?
ph: 781.769.0723
http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
Author: Judah McAuley
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315455
ORM would be nice since CF9 is supposed to include Hibernate.
Application code generation...maybe. Depends on how configurable it is
as there are a number of different frameworks out there. I don't think
it would work very well for Adobe to say "this is the one true
framework". The rest of the description is pretty...meh.
<sarcasm>Syntax highlight in an IDE? Wow! </sarcasm>
If this leads to a really well polished productive IDE, that's great.
But I'd expect some things from a commerical IDE that I don't see
here, like code refactoring. When I make a change to a function in one
of my cfc's, say change an argument name, I want to see everywhere in
my project that calls that function and show me where the argument
changes need to be made.
Still, I'm hopeful that this will encourage Adobe to go the route of
having a commerical IDE and a free and/or open source version of CF.
Judah
> I wonder just how much the "commercial" release is going to cost? I
> can't see spending more than $50 for a new IDE.
>
>
> Matthew Williams
> Geodesic GraFX
Author: Alan Rother
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315454
Well.... They still sell HomeSite 5.5 for $99 on the Adobe Store
Best Guess it'll be around $100 - $150 considering DW is $399
=]
--
Alan Rother
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Manager, Phoenix Cold Fusion User Group, AZCFUG.org
Author: Matthew Williams
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315453
I wonder just how much the "commercial" release is going to cost? I
can't see spending more than $50 for a new IDE.
Matthew Williams
Geodesic GraFX
Author: Gerald Guido
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315452
These three will be worth every penny.
Object Relational Mapping auto-configuration
Application Code Generation
Code assist for tags, functions, variables, and components
The way that some editors offers code assist for external libraries (Aptana)
is awesome. Having Code complete for CFC's and UDF's will be a God send. I
am hoping that the Application Code Generation includes form generation and
is configurable/or uses templates of some sort. I simply *cannot wait* to
see what the ORM features look like. I am with Wil..... the wait is killing
me.
G
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
> Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
> http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Bolt
Author: C S
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315450
>Don't forget the one for CF9 as well.
>http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Centaur
"What features are in Centaur?
Language Enhancements ... CFFINALLY and CFCONTINUE "
Finally.. cffinally. It is about time ;-)
Author: Wil Genovese
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315449
Arg!!!! The hoops one must jump though to get this. Am impatiently
awaiting approval. I keep hitting "Get New Mail" over and over again. ;-)
Wil Genovese
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Author: Alan Rother
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315448
The rumors I've heard are that this is a "from the ground up build".
It is intended to work best with CF9, as most of it's best features are
connected to the new tools in CF9.
=]
--
Alan Rother
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Manager, Phoenix Cold Fusion User Group, AZCFUG.org
Author: Jordan Michaels
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315447
Beautiful.
Is this essentially an "official" CFEclipse then?
Does Mark work for Adobe now? =P
Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
Adobe Solution Provider
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
> Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
> http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Bolt
Author: Aaron Rouse
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315444
Don't forget the one for CF9 as well.
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Centaur
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdinowit@houseoffusion.com> wrote:
> Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
> http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Bolt
Author: Michael Dinowitz
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58114#315442
Ben just announced it. Sign up for access to the beta (or whatever) at
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Bolt
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