anyone here on the DWMX list?

Hey folks, this looks like it could be a great list on DWMX, and I'm glad Michael's set it up. But there's been nothing since Michael's test message of 11/15. So, is anyone here? If not, I'll start putting out the word to others. There are plenty of topics of discussion worth putting on a list devoted to DWMX for Studio/HomeSite users. I'll start sharing tips and asking some myself if I find there are others interested in the topic (and if you're not, I hope to be able to share tips that make you more motivated.)  Sure, DWMX has its challenges, but many of them are solvable and there are indeed features it offers that Studio/Homesite just don't have. I'd look forward to this forum being a way to document the good and the bad and the fixes (both now and for MM to consider). If you're here, speak up and let's get this party started. :-) /charlie

>Hey folks, this looks like it could be a great list on DWMX, and I'm glad >Michael's set it up. I am using the web based interface to do a test, seems like my subscribtion is pretty much messed up and I have to check if I receive anything... Massimo Foti

Reading you loud and clear, Massimo. I also heard that the dreamcoders list (at http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/) is also getting some traffic, though I'd not seen any in a few days.  If it turns out that there's more traffic there than here--and if it's focused as this list is supposed to be on helping Studio/HS folks make the transition, then we'll just take the party down the block. :-) /charlie ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Reading you loud and clear, Massimo. I also heard that the dreamcoders list > (at http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/) is also getting some traffic, though I'd > not seen any in a few days.  If it turns out that there's more traffic there > than here--and if it's focused as this list is supposed to be on helping > Studio/HS folks make the transition, then we'll just take the party down the > block. :-) The dreamcoders list is quite a generic list, even if there are a bunch of good CF people there. I understand you are trying to undertake the huge task of helping Studio/HS users make the transition, so I am not sure which place is better suited. Anyway, you can count on me :-) Massimo

Well, I'd love to hear some discussion about people's experiences with Dreamweaver. : ) Judith ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----

> Well, I'd love to hear some discussion about people's experiences with > Dreamweaver. : ) Well, one thing that I really would like to explain is that DW isn't the only tool I use for CF/PHP/HTML/JavaScript. When DW 1 came out Homesite was my main editor and I started using DW on top of it in order to speed up developing, switching back and forward between the two depending on the task at hand. After each new release the time I was spending in DW increased but, even with DW MX, I find myself 50% of the time using Homesite (again, it depends on the task at hand) plus TopStyle for CSS. I understand this can be a pretty unusual workflow and most people prefer to stick with a single IDE, but I don't think a single tool is able to offer me all I need, not yet at least. Even if in the future DW would be able to match every feature in HS/CF Studio, I will still feel the need for a light and fast text editor with a small footprint, being it Homesite, EditPlus, UltraEdit or whatever... In the office I have a copy of CF Studio but, to be sincere, I always felt that, compared to Homesite it was pretty overpriced. In the end I almost never used CF Studio's Query Builder or Database connectivity and I still have to find a reliable way to make the Debugger work. I just hope MM will keep developing Homesite, maybe adding a few former CF Studio features to it. Homesite is a leader in its field, with a good market, it remains to be seen if pursuing that market is worth or not for MM... Something that really made me think is the way I see CF developers using DW MX. From time to time I work with MM Italy during conferences and road shows, and this year I saw two fellow CF freaks (friends from the CFUG) using DW MX for their presentations... I was really disappointed but I also understood much better why many CF developers aren't happy with DW. My friends were using DW just as a glorified text editor, typing code by hand all the time, without taking advantage of any other functionality; all that DW MX was offering them was colour coding and tag hints... To be sincere, I think that's not a smart way to spend system resources (DW MX is an hog!). If all you want is to write code like them, DW is not the way to go, it's simply not worth, stick with Homesite and, if in the future MM will stop developing it, move to another pure text editor. I mean, would you use JBuilder or Eclipse to just get colour coding for Java or instead use something like JEdit or the like? If you would like to take advantage of DW, you really should be wiling to invest time on it. Start investigating Data Binding to speed up your coding, right click on a tag to get the Tag Dialogs, learn how to use that wonderful tool called Tag Editor. You don't like the code outputted by the Server Behaviors? Create your own Server Behaviors! The Server Behaviors Builder is one of the most powerful and underrated features in DW MX, and you don't have to learn the APIs in order to use it. Check the Components Panel (both for CFC and Web Services). Finally, investigate third party extensions or learn to build your own. I think DW MX has something to offer to many developers, but, like with every other complex IDE (I mean JBuilder, Delphi, Visual Studio, Eclipse and the like) there is a price to pay in order to learn new features, adapt your workflow or customize the tool, if you aren't ready to make that kind of effort, it's not going to be worth Massimo

> Well, I'd love to hear some discussion about people's experiences with > Dreamweaver. : ) Well, one thing that I really would like to explain is that DW isn't the only tool I use for CF/PHP/HTML/JavaScript. When DW 1 came out Homesite was my main editor and I started using DW on top of it in order to speed up developing, switching back and forward between the two depending on the task at hand. After each new release the time I was spending in DW increased but, even with DW MX, I find myself 50% of the time using Homesite (again, it depends on the task at hand) plus TopStyle for CSS. I understand this can be a pretty unusual workflow and most people prefer to stick with a single IDE, but I don't think a single tool is able to offer me all I need, not yet at least. Even if in the future DW would be able to match every feature in HS/CF Studio, I will still feel the need for a light and fast text editor with a small footprint, being it Homesite, EditPlus, UltraEdit or whatever... In the office I have a copy of CF Studio but, to be sincere, I always felt that, compared to Homesite it was pretty overpriced. In the end I almost never used CF Studio's Query Builder or Database connectivity and I still have to find a reliable way to make the Debugger work. I just hope MM will keep developing Homesite, maybe adding a few former CF Studio features to it. Homesite is a leader in its field, with a good market, it remains to be seen if pursuing that market is worth or not for MM... Something that really made me think is the way I see CF developers using DW MX. From time to time I work with MM Italy during conferences and road shows, and this year I saw two fellow CF freaks (friends from the CFUG) using DW MX for their presentations... I was really disappointed but I also understood much better why many CF developers aren't happy with DW. My friends were using DW just as a glorified text editor, typing code by hand all the time, without taking advantage of any other functionality; all that DW MX was offering them was colour coding and tag hints... To be sincere, I think that's not a smart way to spend system resources (DW MX is an hog!). If all you want is to write code like them, DW is not the way to go, it's simply not worth, stick with Homesite and, if in the future MM will stop developing it, move to another pure text editor. I mean, would you use JBuilder or Eclipse to just get colour coding for Java or instead use something like JEdit or the like? If you would like to take advantage of DW, you really should be wiling to invest time on it. Start investigating Data Binding to speed up your coding, right click on a tag to get the Tag Dialogs, learn how to use that wonderful tool called Tag Editor. You don't like the code outputted by the Server Behaviors? Create your own Server Behaviors! The Server Behaviors Builder is one of the most powerful and underrated features in DW MX, and you don't have to learn the APIs in order to use it. Check the Components Panel (both for CFC and Web Services). Finally, investigate third party extensions or learn to build your own. I think DW MX has something to offer to many developers, but, like with every other complex IDE (I mean JBuilder, Delphi, Visual Studio, Eclipse and the like) there is a price to pay in order to learn new features, adapt your workflow or customize the tool, if you aren't ready to make that kind of effort, it's not going to be worth Massimo

Okay, so I finally got it :-) BTW Since I am mainly know for my DW related activities, let me say something about me: - I started using Allaire's products before I even know about MM (and before DW was even born) - Homesite/CF studio is still a crucial element of my toolkit - I use Homesite to write my DW's extensions, :-) - I am not here to sell DW (really!) and I hope MM will keep developing Homesite - I plan to offer more CF related material on my website, in the meantime a bunch of things are available from the italian's CFUG website (it's an excellent resource in my opinion, it's a shame is only in italian): http://www.cfmentor.com/home/index.cfm - I am pretty much familiar with DW, so feel free to ask even the most insane question - I sincerely believe DW is a complex beast and, in order to really take advantage of it a developer need to invest a good amount of time. If you aren't willing to spend time learning how to get the best out of it, stick with your favorite text editor and avoid wasting your system resource (yes, DW has an heavy footprint too) ---------------------------- Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ----------------------------

I myself am a dwmx user, .. trying and learning the new road. I'm also using jedit as well, though not to a high degree as of yet. "I" feel if they continue to work out the bugs, and release updaters to help with some of it's problems, I think I could get accustomed to it on a 'use more than any other ide basis'. I've currently been transferring all of my old snipplets, building some small needed commands, . and now starting to enter it's very rich api. The extendability of dreamweaver is very impressive. http://www.dwteam.com/Articles/speedhints/index.asp is some speed hints for those that don't know them. I haven't tried all of them, so I can't say what 'impact' each suggestion makes. But none the less I think it would be a good resource to keep an eye on. I'm not a javascript pro by far, though I'm learning. But I'm in thoughts of seeing some just !helpful! extensions aimed solely for cold fusion users. I know that generated code in its own can have its downsides, (dependence, not "proper" learning, ) but some ideas on wizards that come to mind are.. a date wizard, with using the functions, and maybe some of the udfs, processing generated code to get the desired result. As in formatting, comparing, parsing etc. I feel that dates aren't that 'hard' to work with when working with them, but if you were to sit and look at the forums over at Macromedia, it would almost be safe to bet that 1 in 10 of every code related post has something to do with dates. It might be of some help. I have some more in thought that I'm not 100% on as of yet, but it would be interesting to see if anyone else was looking into cold fusion based extensions, general feelings about the product, . and the option to burn down my thought of a good extentsion.. ;o) But to clarify on what I meant by non commercial, was non drk based extensions, don't get me wrong, I'm all for MM and the resource kit, but I think there should be some more cold fusion based functionality and some good freely distributed extensions might help the transition... As always, .my .01 Robby

Hi Charlie, I'm here :) Just started getting into DWMX myself! Merry Xmas! Cheers! == Peter Tilbrook Project Officer Strategic Development Australian Building Codes Board GPO Box 9839 CANBERRA ACT 2601 AUSTRALIA       WWW: http://www.abcb.gov.au/    E-Mail: peter.tilbrook@abcb.gov.au Telephone: (02) 6213 6731    Mobile: 0439 401 823 Facsimile: (02) 6213 7287 Hey folks, this looks like it could be a great list on DWMX, and I'm glad Michael's set it up. But there's been nothing since Michael's test message of 11/15. So, is anyone here? If not, I'll start putting out the word to others. There are plenty of topics of discussion worth putting on a list devoted to DWMX for Studio/HomeSite users. I'll start sharing tips and asking some myself if I find there are others interested in the topic (and if you're not, I hope to be able to share tips that make you more motivated.)  Sure, DWMX has its challenges, but many of them are solvable and there are indeed features it offers that Studio/Homesite just don't have. I'd look forward to this forum being a way to document the good and the bad and the fixes (both now and for MM to consider). If you're here, speak up and let's get this party started. :-) /charlie

That's great. Let's see how many other folks are out there. Of course, this may be a slow week by which to gauge things.  But hey, a part of a few is better than no party at all! :-) /charlie > Hi Charlie, I'm here :) Just started getting into DWMX myself! > > Merry Xmas! > > Cheers! >

I'm here and one of the reasons this list was set up was because I saw you and Hal using DWMX. If two such named people can work with it then there's hope for it. I'm still not comfortable with it, but I'm making the effort. Hopefully the product will change as well as the communities attitude towards it so that most will be happy with it. ----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----