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Author: Charles Arehart
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2074
That's a great offer, Jayson, to host something like this on jspinsider (a
useful resource, indeed).
It's also a really interesting idea, if you think about it, because while
it's hard getting volunteers, we can expand the pool of candidates well
beyond just the Jrun list members, to include those using competing java app
servers (weblogic, websphere, iplanet, tomcat, etc.) And of course, it
could extend the community of those moving to JSP/servlets to include those
coming from ASP/CF/PHP/Perl, etc, maintaining a "generic" focus on what
people in that community would need further broadening the pool of potential
candidates (and interested readers).
Of course, it's no trivial effort. I don't even know that I can get involved
right now (have other books already in the pipeline) but this is a subject
near and dear to me, and I suspect others.
If at least a couple others are interested, maybe we can create a separate
mailing list (using some free mailing list feature, if not an HOF one) and
take advantage of Jayson's generous offer and at least try to start
something. Heck, even if it's just a list of topics, resources, and
tips/techniques from the perspective of those "making the move" from other
platforms, that could be useful. Any thoughts?
/charlie
I agree with Charlie too, and Jay as well. Finding helpful
JSP/Servlet/J2EE/Java books is one thing. Especially if you expect the book
to aid in migration from a other server-side technology. Having the
community write a book would be great, however it requires a lot of
volunteer effort. It was tried by the Esperanto Group,
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jspbook/, but never caught on with
support from
others.
Speaking from experience, there are countless people willing to use the free
material, however there are very few willing to contribute. I webmaster over
at JSP Insider - http://www.jspinsider.com, and if there is really interest
in this project I'll gladly help as well as provide web space. The site
already has much code, FAQ and tutorials. Combining it all might make a book
itself :)
Jayson Falkner
jayson@jspinsider.com
> Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
> books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one
can
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
it
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
There
> > are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
> Java.
> > Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE
patterns
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
audience
> > of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting
languages
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
split
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
where
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Jayson Falkner
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2069
I agree with Charlie too, and Jay as well. Finding helpful
JSP/Servlet/J2EE/Java books is one thing. Especially if you expect the book
to aid in migration from a other server-side technology. Having the
community write a book would be great, however it requires a lot of
volunteer effort. It was tried by the Esperanto Group,
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jspbook/, but never caught on with
support from
others.
Speaking from experience, there are countless people willing to use the free
material, however there are very few willing to contribute. I webmaster over
at JSP Insider - http://www.jspinsider.com, and if there is really interest
in this project I'll gladly help as well as provide web space. The site
already has much code, FAQ and tutorials. Combining it all might make a book
itself :)
Jayson Falkner
jayson@jspinsider.com
> Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
> books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one
can
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
it
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
There
> > are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
> Java.
> > Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE
patterns
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
audience
> > of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting
languages
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
split
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
where
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Jackie Comeau
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2066
There is a book coming out August 15th. Architecting a Servlet and JSP
Based Application. I already have books on JSP and Servlets, which I think
this is what I need to put it all together and have it in one book.
Book is written by Lennart Jorelid. Look it up in Amazon.com to get a
description of what's in the book.
Jackie
On Monday, July 30, 2001 12:07 PM, Jay [SMTP:Run_Jay@hotmail.com] wrote:
> Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
> books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
learn
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
on
> > teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book.
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one
can
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
through
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
and
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
(online
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
it
> as
> > a first java book, I think for the right audience it's great for just
> that.
> > And this audience may be especially well-suited to its approach. I
found
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
from
> > Gamma, et al (with its distinct C++ focus, though still foundational
for
> all
> > OO programmers), and one of its co-authors wrote "Pattern Hatching".
There
> > are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
> Java.
> > Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE
patterns
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
audience
> > of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting
languages
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
split
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
get
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
and
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
where
> > would anyone suggest his or her learning path be any sites out there
not
> > just to get up to speed or tutorials but to design a site or case study
> > using Jsp,Java and Xml etc?
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Matthew Lucas Wright
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2061
Yeah,
JSP books are programming books. Their not programming logic books. You're
looking more for the structure of the program, not the language. Once you have
that you can pick and choose what language you use. I prefer Java by far.
Matt Wright
A lot of sites are using Jsp like Backstage.com the thing is a lot of these
tutorials only go so far and books so thanks for the advise.Most of the
tutorials show you about the language but don't really get into three tier
or the big picture at all.
Bert
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Bert
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2060
A lot of sites are using Jsp like Backstage.com the thing is a lot of these
tutorials only go so far and books so thanks for the advise.Most of the
tutorials show you about the language but don't really get into three tier
or the big picture at all.
Bert
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Drew Falkman
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2058
I am currently writing a book for JRun based on Ben Forta's Web Application
Construction Kit. I am using most of the examples from his upcoming CF 5
version, so this book will be great for anyone who is already experienced
using CF.
I am already a good way done writing it, so I don't have the ability to make
any major changes, but if anyone has any ideas, please send me an email. I'm
sure it won't "have it all", but hopefully it will at least cover some of
the major issues that seem to be breezed over in other books.
Thanks.
Drew Falkman
> Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
> books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one
can
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
it
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
There
> > are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
> Java.
> > Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE
patterns
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
audience
> > of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting
languages
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
split
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
where
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Yvette Ingram
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2052
Charles:
Thanks for the excellent advise on how to move into Java/JSP, etc.
I have read all of the books you mentioned. My experience with all of this
is that had I not taken a Java class, I really would have been stuck.
The toughest thing for me was figuring out where files go. It was a
nightmare and I just couldn't get a definitive answer. I'm doing fine now
with JRun. It really is the easiest to work with over Tomcat.
Again, it's definately worth a Java class for anyone going into JSP/Java,
JavaBeans, etc.
Thanks again for your always worthwhile advise.
Yvette Ingram
Brainbench Certified ColdFusion 4.5 Programmer
Email: ingramrecruiting@erols.com or
coldfusion20@hotmail.com, or
service@tkisolutions.com
ICQ: 21200397
Website: http://www.tkisolutions.com
> I agree, Gunter, and I did commend Marty Hall's book in my note. Indeed, I
> also took his 5-day seminar, rarely offered publicly, which is also
> definitely worth getting into if you can (see coreservlets.com for more,
> including all the examples from his book). Marty's a great guy and an
> excellent instructor. And you're right that the book does try to explain
> things, but he and I discussed this point and he agrees that those without
a
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
classpath
> settings, the lifecycle of objects, and lots of other things (choosing
> between inheritance and aggregation, interfaces and inner classes, and
more)
> become really challenging.
>
> I'm not knocking the value of rising to the challenge. Learning to program
> in Java will expose you to many nuances and subtleties that often are
missed
> in procedural programming. Such ideas as programming in the "problem
space"
> versus the "solution space", separating "things that change from things
that
> stay the same", implementation hiding, and the simple matter of being
forced
> to do your design up front are all valuable lessons learned that can
> influence even one's CF or ASP programming.
>
> It's just that no one should assert that this stuff will be easy. I'm
> reminded of a comment by Bruce Eckel in his Hands on Java Seminar, where
he
> quoted someone else who'd said something like "saying java is easier than
> c++ is like saying k-2 is shorter then Everest (the two largest mountains
in
> the world). Sure, it is, but only by a tiny fraction."
>
> For people making the trek up the Java mountain to enterprise-class web
> applications, I'm just saying be careful who you talk to as you pack your
> bags and gather your sherpas and fellow climbers. Many a project has
"died"
> before making it to the top for having been misled about the challenge of
> reaching the summit.
>
> /charlie
>
> I'm picked up the book "core SERVLETS and JAVAsERVER PAGES" from Marty
Hall
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Number
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one
can
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
it
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
There
> > are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
> Java.
> > Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE
patterns
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
audience
> > of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting
languages
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
split
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
where
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Yvette Ingram
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2051
Charles:
Thanks for the excellent advise on how to move into Java/JSP, etc.
I have read all of the books you mentioned. My experience with all of this
is that had I not taken a Java class, I really would have been stuck.
The toughest thing for me was figuring out where files go. It was a
nightmare and I just couldn't get a definitive answer. I'm doing fine now
with JRun. It really is the easiest to work with over Tomcat.
Again, it's definately worth a Java class for anyone going into JSP/Java,
JavaBeans, etc.
Thanks again for your always worthwhile advise.
Yvette Ingram
Brainbench Certified ColdFusion 4.5 Programmer
Email: ingramrecruiting@erols.com or
coldfusion20@hotmail.com, or
service@tkisolutions.com
ICQ: 21200397
Website: http://www.tkisolutions.com
> I agree, Gunter, and I did commend Marty Hall's book in my note. Indeed, I
> also took his 5-day seminar, rarely offered publicly, which is also
> definitely worth getting into if you can (see coreservlets.com for more,
> including all the examples from his book). Marty's a great guy and an
> excellent instructor. And you're right that the book does try to explain
> things, but he and I discussed this point and he agrees that those without
a
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
classpath
> settings, the lifecycle of objects, and lots of other things (choosing
> between inheritance and aggregation, interfaces and inner classes, and
more)
> become really challenging.
>
> I'm not knocking the value of rising to the challenge. Learning to program
> in Java will expose you to many nuances and subtleties that often are
missed
> in procedural programming. Such ideas as programming in the "problem
space"
> versus the "solution space", separating "things that change from things
that
> stay the same", implementation hiding, and the simple matter of being
forced
> to do your design up front are all valuable lessons learned that can
> influence even one's CF or ASP programming.
>
> It's just that no one should assert that this stuff will be easy. I'm
> reminded of a comment by Bruce Eckel in his Hands on Java Seminar, where
he
> quoted someone else who'd said something like "saying java is easier than
> c++ is like saying k-2 is shorter then Everest (the two largest mountains
in
> the world). Sure, it is, but only by a tiny fraction."
>
> For people making the trek up the Java mountain to enterprise-class web
> applications, I'm just saying be careful who you talk to as you pack your
> bags and gather your sherpas and fellow climbers. Many a project has
"died"
> before making it to the top for having been misled about the challenge of
> reaching the summit.
>
> /charlie
>
> I'm picked up the book "core SERVLETS and JAVAsERVER PAGES" from Marty
Hall
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Number
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one
can
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
to
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
it
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
There
> > are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
> Java.
> > Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE
patterns
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
audience
> > of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting
languages
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
split
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
where
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Charles Arehart
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2050
I agree, Gunter, and I did commend Marty Hall's book in my note. Indeed, I
also took his 5-day seminar, rarely offered publicly, which is also
definitely worth getting into if you can (see coreservlets.com for more,
including all the examples from his book). Marty's a great guy and an
excellent instructor. And you're right that the book does try to explain
things, but he and I discussed this point and he agrees that those without a
java background would be hard-pressed to really understand it all. Indeed,
the book states in the introduction, "Although I don't assume any
familiarity with server-side programming, I do expect you to be familiar
with the basics of java language development."
I guess this goes to another point I only made in passing: sure, you can
learn JSP (and maybe even write some servlets) with only a modicum of Java
knowledge (and some hand-holding), but gosh you just won't get far before
the mysteries of packages, instance versus class data, threading, classpath
settings, the lifecycle of objects, and lots of other things (choosing
between inheritance and aggregation, interfaces and inner classes, and more)
become really challenging.
I'm not knocking the value of rising to the challenge. Learning to program
in Java will expose you to many nuances and subtleties that often are missed
in procedural programming. Such ideas as programming in the "problem space"
versus the "solution space", separating "things that change from things that
stay the same", implementation hiding, and the simple matter of being forced
to do your design up front are all valuable lessons learned that can
influence even one's CF or ASP programming.
It's just that no one should assert that this stuff will be easy. I'm
reminded of a comment by Bruce Eckel in his Hands on Java Seminar, where he
quoted someone else who'd said something like "saying java is easier than
c++ is like saying k-2 is shorter then Everest (the two largest mountains in
the world). Sure, it is, but only by a tiny fraction."
For people making the trek up the Java mountain to enterprise-class web
applications, I'm just saying be careful who you talk to as you pack your
bags and gather your sherpas and fellow climbers. Many a project has "died"
before making it to the top for having been misled about the challenge of
reaching the summit.
/charlie
I'm picked up the book "core SERVLETS and JAVAsERVER PAGES" from Marty Hall
and find it an excellent book.
For reader without Java background, the sample code is explained. If you
know Java, reading the code is usually enough.
[mailto:JRun-Talk-request@houseoffusion.com]On Behalf Of JRun-Talk
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:51 AM
To: JRun-Talk-List@houseoffusion.com
Subject: JRun-Talk-List V1 #51
JRun-Talk-List Mon, 30 Jul 2001 Volume 1 : Number
51
In this issue:
Re: Learning path
Name/password cannot be different than already specified in
properties
Message-ID: <DAV14iowsNgiSNdltaO00005d6e@hotmail.com>
Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is a
good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a book,
collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that book
that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out there
(if permitted) can also enhance the learning curve.
> Bert, I know you're asking for materials that "aren't just tutorial but
also
> design and case study", but since others have asked about the general
> transition from ASP (or CF, PHP, Perl, etc.) to servlets/JSP, here are
some
> thoughts that cover a little of all three. Folks really do need to learn
> quite a lot to be truly effective: Java, as a base, for sure, and of
course
> J2EE (servlets, JSP's and EJB's, at least) in general.
>
> A big challenge, I find, is that the beginning Java books often focus on
> teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book. While
> books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
rightly
> so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's not
a
> bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who wants
to
> learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
course
> folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to its
> credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus on
> either "side" of the platform.
>
> On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already know
> java but they're generally focused on teaching web app development to
those
> experienced java programmers. As such, not only must you know Java to
really
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
only,
> etc.
>
> Among the more popular resources for server-side development are Core
> Servlets and JSP, Professional Java Server Programming J2EE Ed.,
O'Reilly's
> Enterprise JavaBeans, and others. Of course, Sun has its J2EE tutorial
> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/index.html), the J2EE
Blueprints, and
> many other resources.
>
> At least, in the case of a real walkthrough, the Java Pet Store example
from
> Sun is a reasonably complete application and the BluePrints book (online
and
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Jacquie
> Barker's "Beginning Java Objects" (Wrox). While some may argue against it
as
> a first java book, I think for the right audience it's great for just
that.
> And this audience may be especially well-suited to its approach. I found
no
> other book did as good a job at putting OO (programming AND design AND
> implementation--and even UML and more) all into perspective.
>
> Then, there's the whole matter of patterns. You won't get far before
> discussions of "observers", "proxies", "factories", "facades" and lots
more
> start cropping up. Of course, the seminal work is "Design Patterns" from
> Gamma, et al (with its distinct C++ focus, though still foundational for
all
> OO programmers), and one of its co-authors wrote "Pattern Hatching". There
> are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
Java.
> Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE patterns
> covered in a book ("Core J2EE Patterns") and a sun site
> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/design_patterns/index.html).
>
> There's clearly a need in the market for something to address the audience
> of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting languages
to
> JSP/Servlets, etc, especially if they're also new to Java. For now, you
have
> to pick and choose.
>
> On the training front, Macromedia's recognized this need with their split
of
> the former "servlets, jsp and java" class into a new "java for web
> developers" class focused on just the kind of core java needed to get
> started, then offering "fasttrack to jsp" to cover JSP basics, and a
coming
> "Building j2ee applications with JRun" class (still in the works) to get
> more into JDBC, servlets, javabeans, EJBs, and more.
>
> Then there are sites like jspinsider.com, jguru.com, theserverside.com,
and
> others, as well as magazines like Java Developers Journal, Java Pro, and
> Java Report.
>
> I'm sure others will have still more suggested resources, and I'd
certainly
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Jay
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2048
Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is a
good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a book,
collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that book
that has it all). In addition, code good examples of actual sites out there
(if permitted) can also enhance the learning curve.
> Bert, I know you're asking for materials that "aren't just tutorial but
also
> design and case study", but since others have asked about the general
> transition from ASP (or CF, PHP, Perl, etc.) to servlets/JSP, here are
some
> thoughts that cover a little of all three. Folks really do need to learn
> quite a lot to be truly effective: Java, as a base, for sure, and of
course
> J2EE (servlets, JSP's and EJB's, at least) in general.
>
> A big challenge, I find, is that the beginning Java books often focus on
> teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book. While
> books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
rightly
> so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's not
a
> bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who wants
to
> learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
course
> folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to its
> credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus on
> either "side" of the platform.
>
> On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already know
> java but they're generally focused on teaching web app development to
those
> experienced java programmers. As such, not only must you know Java to
really
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
only,
> etc.
>
> Among the more popular resources for server-side development are Core
> Servlets and JSP, Professional Java Server Programming J2EE Ed.,
O'Reilly's
> Enterprise JavaBeans, and others. Of course, Sun has its J2EE tutorial
> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/index.html), the J2EE
Blueprints, and
> many other resources.
>
> At least, in the case of a real walkthrough, the Java Pet Store example
from
> Sun is a reasonably complete application and the BluePrints book (online
and
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
Jacquie
> Barker's "Beginning Java Objects" (Wrox). While some may argue against it
as
> a first java book, I think for the right audience it's great for just
that.
> And this audience may be especially well-suited to its approach. I found
no
> other book did as good a job at putting OO (programming AND design AND
> implementation--and even UML and more) all into perspective.
>
> Then, there's the whole matter of patterns. You won't get far before
> discussions of "observers", "proxies", "factories", "facades" and lots
more
> start cropping up. Of course, the seminal work is "Design Patterns" from
> Gamma, et al (with its distinct C++ focus, though still foundational for
all
> OO programmers), and one of its co-authors wrote "Pattern Hatching". There
> are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in
Java.
> Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE patterns
> covered in a book ("Core J2EE Patterns") and a sun site
> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/design_patterns/index.html).
>
> There's clearly a need in the market for something to address the audience
> of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting languages
to
> JSP/Servlets, etc, especially if they're also new to Java. For now, you
have
> to pick and choose.
>
> On the training front, Macromedia's recognized this need with their split
of
> the former "servlets, jsp and java" class into a new "java for web
> developers" class focused on just the kind of core java needed to get
> started, then offering "fasttrack to jsp" to cover JSP basics, and a
coming
> "Building j2ee applications with JRun" class (still in the works) to get
> more into JDBC, servlets, javabeans, EJBs, and more.
>
> Then there are sites like jspinsider.com, jguru.com, theserverside.com,
and
> others, as well as magazines like Java Developers Journal, Java Pro, and
> Java Report.
>
> I'm sure others will have still more suggested resources, and I'd
certainly
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Charles Arehart
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2047
Bert, I know you're asking for materials that "aren't just tutorial but also
design and case study", but since others have asked about the general
transition from ASP (or CF, PHP, Perl, etc.) to servlets/JSP, here are some
thoughts that cover a little of all three. Folks really do need to learn
quite a lot to be truly effective: Java, as a base, for sure, and of course
J2EE (servlets, JSP's and EJB's, at least) in general.
A big challenge, I find, is that the beginning Java books often focus on
teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book. While
books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and rightly
so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's not a
bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who wants to
learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of course
folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to its
credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus on
either "side" of the platform.
On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already know
java but they're generally focused on teaching web app development to those
experienced java programmers. As such, not only must you know Java to really
get into the books, but you have to weed through some web app development
info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness to
web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one can
learn it elsewhere, but someone needs to lead those using J2EE as their
first web app platform to appreciate why it's worth doing).
Then there's the whole debate over EJBs (should you, shouldn't you),
understanding the difference between javabeans and EJBs, weeding through
books that discuss javabeans for their use in client-side development only,
etc.
Among the more popular resources for server-side development are Core
Servlets and JSP, Professional Java Server Programming J2EE Ed., O'Reilly's
Enterprise JavaBeans, and others. Of course, Sun has its J2EE tutorial
(http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/index.html), the J2EE
Blueprints, and
many other resources.
At least, in the case of a real walkthrough, the Java Pet Store example from
Sun is a reasonably complete application and the BluePrints book (online and
in print as "Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition BluePrints") walks one
through it and the solutions employed in it. See
http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/ for these and lots more.
On another tack, if those making the move to servlets/JSP are also new to
object-oriented programming and design (haven't had C++, SmallTalk, or
similar experience), that's another whole level of complexity to be
understood (and effectively used). For this, I'd strongly recommend Jacquie
Barker's "Beginning Java Objects" (Wrox). While some may argue against it as
a first java book, I think for the right audience it's great for just that.
And this audience may be especially well-suited to its approach. I found no
other book did as good a job at putting OO (programming AND design AND
implementation--and even UML and more) all into perspective.
Then, there's the whole matter of patterns. You won't get far before
discussions of "observers", "proxies", "factories", "facades" and lots more
start cropping up. Of course, the seminal work is "Design Patterns" from
Gamma, et al (with its distinct C++ focus, though still foundational for all
OO programmers), and one of its co-authors wrote "Pattern Hatching". There
are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in Java.
Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE patterns
covered in a book ("Core J2EE Patterns") and a sun site
(http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/design_patterns/index.html).
There's clearly a need in the market for something to address the audience
of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting languages to
JSP/Servlets, etc, especially if they're also new to Java. For now, you have
to pick and choose.
On the training front, Macromedia's recognized this need with their split of
the former "servlets, jsp and java" class into a new "java for web
developers" class focused on just the kind of core java needed to get
started, then offering "fasttrack to jsp" to cover JSP basics, and a coming
"Building j2ee applications with JRun" class (still in the works) to get
more into JDBC, servlets, javabeans, EJBs, and more.
Then there are sites like jspinsider.com, jguru.com, theserverside.com, and
others, as well as magazines like Java Developers Journal, Java Pro, and
Java Report.
I'm sure others will have still more suggested resources, and I'd certainly
welcome their feedback if any on those mentioned here.
/charlie
As a Asp developer making the transition to Java ,Java beans and Jsp where
would anyone suggest his or her learning path be any sites out there not
just to get up to speed or tutorials but to design a site or case study
using Jsp,Java and Xml etc?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: JustinMacCarthy
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2045
Check out http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/?frontpage-spotlight
great
tutorials etc.. ..
Justin
----- Excess quoted text cut - see Original Post for more -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Author: Bert
Short Link: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/jrun-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:776#2044
As a Asp developer making the transition to Java ,Java beans and Jsp where
would anyone suggest his or her learning path be any sites out there not
just to get up to speed or tutorials but to design a site or case study
using Jsp,Java and Xml etc?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
|
May 25, 2012
|
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